As The Fourth Largest City With So Much Shopping And Entertainment, Why Is Houston Not Among The Top Tourist Destinations?

[RedScare]

Reading all of the posts regarding Houston tourism, and especially some the ones about other tourist destinations, reveals a big question. Just which tourists do you want? Tourism, like everything else, is not one size fits all. Only a few cities or locations can even attempt that. New York does, and Vegas tries, but everyone else that does, usually misses its target audience, or worse, doesn't know who its target market is.

I certainly would not blame anyone here for missing our target, if we know what it is, because we are not marketing geniuses. We might blame the ad agencies or the Convention Bureau, though.

Along those lines, Houston is not a bad destination at all for certain groups. Patrons of the arts or the theatre, who usually also like good restaurants, should feel welcome here. Outdoor types generally wouldn't consider Houston, but my previous post would help locals and outdoor types alike. Houston has a respectable night scene, and there are improvements planned to enhance it more.

Realistically, kids, or more specifically, families who insist on amusement parks for entertainment, are not served well. That doesn't upset me, a single, mid-40s male, but it may disappoint others. But, all is not lost.

Galveston serves some of the family market. Schlitterbahn will help even more. Rather than trying to turn Houston or a suburb into some poorly planned Disneyland, the Houston-Galveston area would be better served by marketing both assets together, and by targeting the message. The one thing that government needs to do to facilitate this effort most is to install a commuter rail line to the island. This will allow Galveston visitors to travel to Houston's museums and Downtown without driving, while allowing Houston visitors to plan a day trip to Galveston. The ride itself will be an attraction.

This will also encourage amusement builders to concentrate these facilities near Galveston, the real vacation spot in the Houston area. If Galveston can advertise Houston's amenities as within walking distance (to the rail station), and Houston can advertise sunbathing on the beach as a few blocks away, both cities win.

Locals win, too. We have all of Galveston's amenities closer to us, as well. The Island will become more desirable to those who want to escape the big city, but still work Downtown or in the Med Center, since the commute will only be about an hour by train.

Still, a committment to cleaning our air and water is needed. And, results need to be seen by outsiders. Even though San Diego has air pollution and raw sewage routinely shuts down their beaches, the perception is that it is nice and clean. For Houston to begin to change those perceptions, it must do some noticeable things, and the results need to be publicized. As the perception changes, people will come.

But, in the meantime, we'll have that cool commuter rail and clean bayou parks to ourselves.

[gto250us]

Anyway, back to my original point. Think about the movie that people know was made in Houston... Urban Cowboy.

Now think about the movie that people don't know was made in Houston... Reality Bites.

See the difference?

Now they get to know Houston by watching "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room"

[banking214]

When people come to Houston that have never been before, I take them straigth to Ninfas on Navigation or Goode Company. My friends from NYC eat it up, they love. I will take them to Montrose and shop around the ecclectic stores, then head over to The Heights and shop and grab some food at Shade. Drive around the museum district, check out some great places. Maybe head downtown at night and go to Bank for dinner. This is Houston.

Over the past few years I have become somewhat obsessed with livable cities and what makes them. I really hope ALL cities in Texas work harder to become more green. Start building green homes and buildings. Instead of parking lots, have fields of green. Spend the money and put the parking lot under ground. Can you imangine The Galleria surface lots with green all around them? Some great sculptures? A nice park? That would send a message that Houston is on the forefront.

This is just a side note, but when my friends come visit, they all want to go to Austin. I love Austin as much as anyone (it is my home away from home), but instead of Austin, stay in Houston, or Dallas for that matter.

[MidtownCoog]

I think you could put Austin in the "over-appreciated" category along side Seattle.

[WesternGulf]

I think you could put Austin in the "over-appreciated" category along side Seattle.

are you kidding me? maybe austin.

[largeTEXAS]

Can you imangine The Galleria surface lots with green all around them? Some great sculptures? A nice park? That would send a message that Houston is on the forefront.

May or may not happen, but Wulfe's project at San Felipe and Post Oak might be VERY green...

[hokieone]

I know I already said tourism was overrated, but there was something really cool on the Discovery channel last night. I know this would never happen here, not to mention it looked really expensive to build, but they had something on about Ski Dubai. That is something that obviously is meant for tourists and definitely thinking "big" Kind of neat that in the middle of the desert there is this huge place to go skiing in year round, plus they built a high end mall to attach to it. i don't think it would do that well here because you can jump on a place here and go skiing about 3 hours away in CO, but it was just something I thought was different and unique.

[worldlyman]

Leaving Houston out of it, you're not the first person (or second) to tell me that San Diego's downtown doesn't have any longterm influence on the visitor, that there seems to be something of community lacking and that it has been prostituted for the sake of tourism. Great Hizzy

Yeah, the San Diego City Beat, the only real alternative weekly here has mentioned that a lot. Then there was this big shot architect, a guy who has done a lot of work in Las Vegas, also mentioning the same thing in 944 magazine, San Diego-Las Vegas-Phoenix's answer to the 002 monthly. The Gas Lamp is very disneyfied to be sure, but we go there from time to time...go to Lula's Cafe. It's nice there in a cheesy way.

Even though San Diego has air pollution and raw sewage routinely shuts down their beaches, the perception is that it is nice and clean. Red Scare

Downtown San Diego is kinda "clean" per se. But many areas of San Diego are quite dirty, not far from downtown. And yes, the beaches are not all that. A few weeks ago we went walking around Pacific Beach, one that has nice brochures about it and it is a popular destination...and it was quite gross. I believe the re-sanding of Galveston of two years ago did wonders...if only the water color is another issue. But I might venture to say that Galveston's sand is more or less like that of many SoCal beaches, an improvement for Galveston in a sense. Air pollution. Indeed, I see a lot of smokey stuff in San Diego driving from the good vantage point of the 805 freeway. Smog not fog, fo' sure. In H-town, good nice chills from time to time at least clear out the smoggy stuff until May arrives.

The one thing that government needs to do to facilitate this effort most is to install a commuter rail line to the island. This will allow Galveston visitors to travel to Houston's museums and Downtown without driving, while allowing Houston visitors to plan a day trip to Galveston. The ride itself will be an attraction. Red Scare

A line between Houston and Galveston would be sweet, sort of like a City to Gulf Coaster thing along the lines of SoCal's Coaster. An enteraining line, if feasible, would be alongside the bayside cities, a more practical might cut through Pearland and then to Houston somehow.

I think Houston offers decent entertainment (Kemah, MarqE Center, Hermann's amenities, etc.) to families who happen to come upon Houston but no, Houston is no Orlando or Anaheim in terms of heavyweight amusement parks, drawing tourist masses for the purpose.

Austin is nice to have nearby but I still really get miffed when it gets more undeserved attention than Houston, the greater and more endowed city.

Seattle, I've been to twice. The outdoors there are great, driving to Whidby Island and stuff (and Vancouver puts Seattle to shame)...but the city sort of has a plastic way about it. It reminds me of a more sophisticated San Diego. But I like Seattle better than San Diego. And I like Vancouver better than Seattle.

Houston ain't as cute as these three towns...but Houston just has something extra in its appeal that we can't always explain and the judgemental idiots at Lonely Planet Travel Guides or Travel & Leisure Magazine cannot appreciate it when we do. I loved parking in side streets near the Ensemble Theater or the HCC stop. Take the red METRO line to the Med Center, go to that Newstand, walk in good weather to Rice Village under that lovely canopy of trees, go back and eat at Miller's Cafe for the best burgers...then ride the rail back to downtown and do the tunnels to walk off the meal. I mean, I have never found a guilty personal pleasure like that in San Diego...because you have to share everything nice with the tourists and like-minded locals!

Another thing was when I stayed at my Dad's for eight months in Sharpstown in that stately neighborhood across the mall, Fondren@Clarewood to be exact. We would walk through the oak trees and then reach Gessner going left with its busy sidewalk life, turn left on Bellaire walking through the High Times strip lot, and then see the Vietnamese and international cafes and shops then lastly St. Agnes Academy as we headed back to Fondren. It's quite an interesting street life...yet they say Houston is nothing but faceless suburbs. In certain corners, some suburbs are quite interesting in H-town.

(Does anyone know if the Newstand is still there in the Med Center and if 002 is still printing?)

[VelvetJ]

I don't know. Have you ever heard anyone brag about Grand Prairie's qaulity of life?

(I can hear the Dallas forumers laughing from here.)

Seriously, though, here is a problem. macbro points out some great attractions, such as Seattle's market and the Golden Gate. Houston doesn't have a lot of these old established attractions. If we went on this binge to build attractions, would they be appreciated? Probably not. They'd be seen as cheezy and lame attempts at tourist attractions, which they are. Cities across the country, in a desparate attempt to be hip or a tourist draw, are building hideous caricatures of attractions. In Williamsburg, VA, they are even creating an amusement park because they consider the site of the decisive battle of the Revolutionary War boring.

Even these faux Town Centers, that are all the rage, an attempt to recreate an authentic downtown where none existed before, are missing a crucial element. What is it? Authenticity. Everyone knows that it is a master planned caricature of a town center. It may be pleasant, but there is no history to it. Worse, because they are master planned, they have the same predictable look to them. And every big subdivision in the country is doing them.

So, what to do? I, for one, would like to see an accelerated effort to improve Houston's parks, especially it's waterways. Houston was founded on the water. It's lifeblood is the water. It's nickname is the Bayou City. A program (already in place) to improve the recreational attraction of Buffalo Bayou, Spring Creek and Cypress Creek, as well as a park on Galveston Bay worthy of spending the day at, with sailing, canoeing and other facilities.

Combined with other efforts to improve Houston's air and water quality, these natural attractions could actually have the added benefit of improving Houston's image as an unhealthy city. Frankly, if I had a choice of what tourists I would want to visit, athletes and outdoor enthusiasts would be preferable to snot-nosed kids heading to a faux Disneyland.

I realize that others think an amusement park is a great attraction. I'm not advocating against one. It is just that they tend to only draw from a short radius around the city. BTW, the Museum of Natural Science has an energy exhibit that has been retooled, and will re-open May 6. And the Fort Worth Stockyards are the remnants of the ORIGINAL Stockyards. Similar to Pikes Fish Market, the Stockyards are the real thing, preserved as a historical look into Fort Worth's past. It is not a recreation, though the livestock auctions have been discontinued.

Redscare,

That was great but I suppose that wasn't the answer I wanted to hear however it was expected. Though not you, I knew some would take my post as my saying, "Houston is a piece of crap and should be wiped from the face of the earth". I knew someone would begin to tell me how great the Menil Collection is and how great our weather can be in January. I knew someone would compare Houston to places that aren't even in our league (who cares about Tampa) and make Houston come out on top in the comparison, which is so easy to do. I knew someone would suggest I want Houston to be the next Orlando or Las Vegas, which is not true. I am aware of those things but that was not my point.

With all due respect, Redscare there is no point in telling me how current day Town Centers lack authenticity. There is no point in telling me how much you would appreciate cleaner air and water in Houston. I would LOVE to see our network of Bayous upgraded to canoe in and to have dinner alongside them all over the city. If the city wanted to add another park to it's system, hey I'm all for it. You would not get a fight from me on any of those things.

I suppose my issue is the number and variety and quality of attractions in this city. Many times we can get so distracted by telling people how great we are, we loose sight of the fact that there is a ton of room for improvement. That's why whenever this discussion comes up people take it as an insult or begin to overrun the thread by trying to tell me how large the Galleria is.

Another point adding to my frustration though I really have no control over and what Redscare is right on about, is the time situation. I know many of these things are going to take time, however my feeling is it doesn't always have to take as long as it does for Houston. Our contemporaries (Dallas and Atlanta......no other city belongs on that tier by the way) both are "new" cities like Houston but are more tourist friendly and both recieve more leisurely visitors than Houston, yet they are years ahead on the hottest things now such as mass transit, mixed-use development, and the creation of people areas, while we are just trying to get out of the starting block. Why is that?

No, Houston doesn't have a lot of old established attractions but neither do our counterparts, yet their tourist element thrives when compared to Houston. Yeah we can bring up how many business travelers come here but don't we want as many visitors for leisure as well? Why can't we have both? The largest cities in America, let's see.....New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston. Compare the entertainment/tourist elements of the four. Can anyone see what's wrong with that picture?

Over the Christmas Holiday, I was watching the Price is Right and part of the Showcase Showdown of a contestant was a Trip to Chicago, Boston, and (GASP) Atlanta. Now before anyone goes off on me trying to explain why Houston shouldn't want to be on the Price is Right, the point is I remember thinking either a.) Atlanta is doing a great job of improving it's tourist element or b.) they have managed to fool the heck out of us. And the strange thing is I couldn't imagine Houston being a destination for a prize on the show.

If visitors to the city can go the beach then turn around and go snow skiing in the AstroDome, then go shopping at the Galleria, then spend the day exploring high quality Musuems, then spend the night club hopping on foot downtown, then canoe on Buffalo Bayou, then attend the opera, then go to the largest and best Theme Park in Texas, then go fishing out in the Gulf of Mexico, then do a little shopping on 19th Street in the Heights, then store hop via foot or shuttle down the Harwin shopping district, then rolling over to New ChinaTown, then catching a Train down to NASA, then go to a Rockets or Astro's Game, all while eating some of the best food in the world? Why not? Why fight a train to Galveston? In a Metro area with over 5 million and growing, many of which are families , why be content or ambivalent about Houston not having an Amusement Park? Why not a museum about the oil industry? Why not monuments to space exploration at our airports? How about a day when students aren't turned off to Rice University simply because it's in Houston? How about the Sharpstown Mall area becoming a giant multicutural mixed use development that reflects, arguably the most ethnically diverse section of this huge city if not Texas? And where are the plans to make it easy to get there by train?

The issue isn't so much what we have is bad, as much as we can do so much better. But the first step is realizing we actually have a need to be so much better.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

That was the best post so far VelvetJ.

[banking214]

That was the best post so far VelvetJ.

Agreed

[RedScare]

Our contemporaries (Dallas and Atlanta......no other city belongs on that tier by the way) both are "new" cities like Houston but are more tourist friendly and both recieve more leisurely visitors than Houston,

The issue isn't so much what we have is bad, as much as we can do so much better. But the first step is realizing we actually have a need to be so much better.

Agreed that we can do better. I think most everyone agrees with that statement. Some may get defensive about how "bad" it is here, but ALL agree there is room for improvement.

Question about Dallas and Atlanta. Clearly, they are our equals, but do they really get more visitors? I found several lists that don't necessarily support that claim.

This is the number of international tourists. Atlanta ahead, Dallas behind, none higher than 11th.

CITY 2001 2001

MARKET SHARE VISITATION (000)

New York City 22.0% 4,803

Los Angeles 12.9% 2,816

Miami 11.7% 2,554

Orlando 11.3% 2,467

San Francisco 9.0% 1,965

Oahu/Honolulu 8.0% 1,747

Las Vegas 6.9% 1,506

Washington D.C. 5.5% 1,201

Chicago 4.9% 1,070

Boston 4.9% 1,070

Atlanta 3.2% 699

San Diego 2.7% 589

Tampa/St. Petersburg 2.3% 502

San Jose 1.9% 415

Philadelphia 1.9% 415

Houston 1.9% 415

Ft. Lauderdale 1.9% 415

New Orleans 1.8% 393

Anaheim 1.8% 393

Seattle 1.6% 349

Dallas/Ft. Worth 1.6% 349

Here is a Top Ten list for domestic tourists.

2003-2004 Winter

Top Destination % of Total

1. Orlando 23.0

2. Las Vegas 21.3

3. New York 9.4

4. Miami 4.2

5. Honolulu 4.0

6. Phoenix 4.0

7. Los Angeles

8. Denver

9. San Diego

10. Hawaii

2003 Summer

Orlando (24.8 %)

Las Vegas (22.2 %)

New York (8.9 %)

San Francisco (7.3 %)

Honolulu (6.2 %)

Los Angeles (3.8 %)

San Diego (3.6 %)

Seattle (2.4 %)

Miami (2.3 %)

Phoenix (2.1 %)

Atlanta, Dallas, Houston are not in the top 10, and get somewhere less than 2% of total visitors. These are compiled from travel agents, so all 3 cities likely get a large number of regional tourists, as does San Antonio. However, almost half of all destinations are Orlando and Vegas. None of the cities outside of the big 3 (NY, LA, SF) plus Orlando and Vegas get THAT many tourists, including Chicago. So, there's only so much a city can do, without a bay, a mountain, Walt Disney, or slot machines.

[worldlyman]

None of the cities outside of the big 3 (NY, LA, SF) plus Orlando and Vegas get THAT many tourists, including Chicago. So, there's only so much a city can do, without a bay, a mountain, Walt Disney, or slot machines.

Indeed. Houston is getting larger with more permanent residents and that is the important part. It's not mega-megametropolis yet and really, that's OK. The Asian population increased 75% from 1990 to 2000 which is cool. Besides, I've been mucking around Los Angeles recently and if I ever thought of living there...I don't have those desires anymore. Still fun to kick it up there but Houston gives pretty much the same urbane and cosmopolitan commerce as L.A.; it may be less in quantity but I like Houston's open spaces to complement or offset the busy and fun boulevards like Westheimer, W. Gray, Bellaire Blvd, Kirby, etc. There are no significant Memorial Parks or S. Beltway 8 treeline drives to break up the busy concrete and steel in L.A. anymore...unless you drive outside.

[worldlyman]

That was great but I suppose that wasn't the answer I wanted to hear however it was expected. Though not you, I knew some would take my post as my saying, "Houston is a piece of crap and should be wiped from the face of the earth". I knew someone would begin to tell me how great the Menil Collection is and how great our weather can be in January. I knew someone would compare Houston to places that aren't even in our league (who cares about Tampa) and make Houston come out on top in the comparison, which is so easy to do. I knew someone would suggest I want Houston to be the next Orlando or Las Vegas, which is not true. I am aware of those things but that was not my point.

The Tampa Bay area is not that insignificant. Look at all the Super Bowls it’s gotten and more that it will receive. The metro size is almost that of San Diego’s. Tampa Bay’s beachside resources like Clearwater and Caladesi Island feed into the Orlando area just as Mickey Mouse feeds into Scientology Central.

But this is instructive since the judgemental sportswriters and travel mag editors think they may want culture and diversity as Houston offers those more so than Miami, San Diego and Tampa Bay yet type out that Houston committed some mortal sin just for hosting a Super Bowl. And Houston’s shopping and nightlife per se are just as comparable if not more diverse and superior.

With all due respect, Redscare there is no point in telling me how current day Town Centers lack authenticity. There is no point in telling me how much you would appreciate cleaner air and water in Houston. I would LOVE to see our network of Bayous upgraded to canoe in and to have dinner alongside them all over the city. If the city wanted to add another park to it's system, hey I'm all for it. You would not get a fight from me on any of those things.

I don’t denigrate or oppose the nouveau Town Centers as such. But I do keep in mind the flaws of those constructs. I enjoy the early evening activity there in Sugarland Town Square already but I really wish they could have ripped up the parking lots near the First Colony Mall entrances and built it adjacently. The unique setting of those surreal trees and waterway make The Woodlands one of the better Town Centers for the Houston area to have. Bayous present flooding issues unless the upgrades were to be seriously addressed. I do like the bayou walk there in New Chinatown along Bellaire Blvd. @ Beltway 8.

I suppose my issue is the number and variety and quality of attractions in this city. Many times we can get so distracted by telling people how great we are, we loose sight of the fact that there is a ton of room for improvement. That's why whenever this discussion comes up people take it as an insult or begin to overrun the thread by trying to tell me how large the Galleria is.

There is certainly a ton of room for improvement. But the Houston Galleria is nothing to sneeze at. Here in Southern California, in terms of a magnificent indoor playpalace of people-watching...there is nothing that is comparable. The over-hyped South Coast Plaza in Costa Mesa is nothing more than the Galleria shops set in a grande Greenspoint Mall setting. Likewise, the beloved Beverly Center in Los Angeles is quite a penitentiary-like bore but the streetlife environs are pretty cool. In terms of tense synergy and energy, if we are speaking of having a suburban indoor shopping district...Uptown-Post Oak blows all over Anaheim, Costa Mesa and Irvine put together. Orange County is so plastic but I guess who are we to begrudge the tourists from Buffalo, Des Moines and Boston who love it and the New York City propaganda editors who influence them? FOX could put out a quality medical drama series set in Ben Taub or Texas Children’s rather than some stupid show about spoiled people in the “O.C.” Like there is a dearth of shows set in SoCal.

Another point adding to my frustration though I really have no control over and what Redscare is right on about, is the time situation. I know many of these things are going to take time, however my feeling is it doesn't always have to take as long as it does for Houston. Our contemporaries (Dallas and Atlanta......no other city belongs on that tier by the way) both are "new" cities like Houston but are more tourist friendly and both recieve more leisurely visitors than Houston, yet they are years ahead on the hottest things now such as mass transit, mixed-use development, and the creation of people areas, while we are just trying to get out of the starting block. Why is that?

The big picture is downtown. The Super Bowl fallout showed just how weak Atlanta is in that department. Houston had events and partying going on for five straight nights downtown while there were complaints that nothing really went on in the ATL in comparison. Houston got props while Atlanta was dissed in the general reviews. I wouldn’t want to be in downtown Atlanta after 5 p.m. unless I planned to camp out in The Underground Shops there. If tourists and travel mag editors think the Buckhead anchor and some cute new Town Center things are all that, more power to ‘em.

Dallas has always been, could we say, off-center in the downtown department. The good fun to be had is in the periphery, depending on your tastes and intensity preference, like either Deep Ellum or the West End. But when I go there, I feel something truly urbane is missing. In downtown Houston, you are in the beef of the district. Main Street. With Travis Street. The adjacent Theater District lends a Broadway sophistication (however snooty) lacking in other Sun Belt cities. I don’t much do the opera, ballet, big theater or symphony but it is there and Houston serves them up better than any other Sun Belt city straddling anywhere near I-10 or I-40.

And Dallas and Atlanta, pretty much a lot like each other, do not have access to open sea, thus lacking nice “people areas” like Kemah, the Strand and the Sea Wall. You can throw Phoenix near the cusp, and they make a big deal about Scottsdale and Tempe? I thought the open sea entertainment areas are supposed to make travel mag editors fawn on themselves.

No, Houston doesn't have a lot of old established attractions but neither do our counterparts, yet their tourist element thrives when compared to Houston. Yeah we can bring up how many business travelers come here but don't we want as many visitors for leisure as well? Why can't we have both? The largest cities in America, let's see.....New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston. Compare the entertainment/tourist elements of the four. Can anyone see what's wrong with that picture?

Los Angles is indeed widely-visited. But when looking at Travel & Leisure surveys year after year, it seems that visitors never seem to place L.A., with all its clout and appeal, in the top 10 or 15 favorite destinations. That’s something. Houston which is not that visited in comparison to L.A. shouldn’t really feel all that bad.

I don’t mind having more “visitors for leisure” for Houston but I can live without them. I live in San Diego and don’t feel any better about this town with them. Any leisure tourist can say he or she saw the Golden Gate Bridge or Hollywood sign but most of them cannot say they went to the near inimitable downtown tunnels of Houston to see how a major city beats the elements, eats at a variety of places, shops at a plethora of stores as it perpetuates its livelihood while scoping the pedestrian sights. OK, you take a picture of the Golden Gate and the Hollywood sign, OK, the lovely and popular sights. But the tunnels kinda make deep-thinking travelers cogitate. I’ve had friends from Florida love the tunnels and it’s one of the first places they want to wander when they get to Houston.

If visitors to the city can go the beach then turn around and go snow skiing in the AstroDome, then go shopping at the Galleria, then spend the day exploring high quality Musuems, then spend the night club hopping on foot downtown, then canoe on Buffalo Bayou, then attend the opera, then go to the largest and best Theme Park in Texas, then go fishing out in the Gulf of Mexico, then do a little shopping on 19th Street in the Heights, then store hop via foot or shuttle down the Harwin shopping district, then rolling over to New ChinaTown, then catching a Train down to NASA, then go to a Rockets or Astro's Game, all while eating some of the best food in the world? Why not? Why fight a train to Galveston? In a Metro area with over 5 million and growing, many of which are families , why be content or ambivalent about Houston not having an Amusement Park? Why not a museum about the oil industry? Why not monuments to space exploration at our airports? How about a day when students aren't turned off to Rice University simply because it's in Houston? How about the Sharpstown Mall area becoming a giant multicutural mixed use development that reflects, arguably the most ethnically diverse section of this huge city if not Texas? And where are the plans to make it easy to get there by train?

Now here, I agree with you probably 99.9%. I like rail and more rail. It does have to be feasible, but I like your ideas about it.

I believe that 19th Street in the Heights could use more attention in terms of more cafes and watering spots than just Andy's and Shade. That’s a cool-looking street which could use more late night pedestrianism. I mean, that’s where the cool people live.

I believe that Washington, about Yale/Studemont, where Cosmos Cafe, The Social, Star Pizza and such diversions are could use more concentrated development to bring a mini-Hollywood vibe to that area...instead of the scattered development that is the case at the moment.

I believe that AstroWorld should have been refurbished. It was the 3rd largest US home of high velocity rides and superior to the rather vanilla setting of Six Flags Arlington. I’m still getting over the news.

I believe that Main Street at about the Ensemble Theater environs off Alabama should keep adding new eclectic businesses alongside the mainstays like Continental Club, Breakfast Klub and such. I would be mad at the powers-that-be who would tear down the cute buildings that are sidewalk-attached in favor of more damn parking lots. That could be such a pedestrian-friendly (automobile unfriendly) entertainment district right there...just a short spiffy Red Line ride from downtown.

I believe that New Chinatown, with the new strucutures that I saw being built when there during the Labor Day Weekend, can create the mixed commercial and residential constructs that will engender cool pedestrianism to connect the Dynasty Plaza with Diho Plaza (which is already doable with the Sin Chao).

I believe that Midtown could find ways to redevelop the sidewalks and storefronts from the W. Gray corridors and then inward to Louisiana/Travis/Main to downtown. And then outward along Fannin to the Med Center.

I believe that those standing warehouses and such structures there along Polk and the parallel streets where they lead away from the Old Chinatown, they could have been turned into something. That could have been a REAL revival of Old Chinatown in a similar Deep Ellum sort of setting. Shame.

I don’t believe in losing sleep because Houston is not proto-typically Chicago or San Francisco; it’s not built like them. Rather Houston should focus on developing around what it has already. It’s a car city with elbow room, yet with mass transit, and with all types of entertainment districts that don’t have to be sequestered in traditional city block contexts, transcending Chi-town or San Fran, for the most part. Houston would be able to have its urban cake and eat it in the suburbs too.

And, downtown Houston is moving forward once again with the commencement of Pavilions construction.

The issue isn't so much what we have is bad, as much as we can do so much better. But the first step is realizing we actually have a need to be so much better.

Houston can be better but pining “so much” is to seriously deride the mostly positive evolution it has undertaken since the lost post-70s boom years.

[The Great Hizzy!]

This is a great discussion. I'm in Austin right now at a conference and can't really add to it as I'd hoped. But part of the problem Houston has is that whatever its merits are, its reputation in certain powerful circles makes it difficult for it to market itself. Even within the state, there is a belief held that is erroneous yet prominent, and sometimes the squeaky (albeit erroneous) wheel gets all the attention.

So, in support Velvet J, I agree that there is always room for improvement, and I think Midtown is a key in that; if we can see Midtown reach its potential and offer a social and geographic link between downtown and the Museum District (and TMC), then that alone would keep visitors busy for days, and without having to spend a single minute in a car if they prefer.

However, there's also the problem of overcoming an unfair and misguided perception that a group of individuals (or whomever) are hell bent on projecting. How to deal with that? Ideas?

[dbigtex56]

However, there's also the problem of overcoming an unfair and misguided perception that a group of individuals (or whomever) are hell bent on projecting. How to deal with that? Ideas?

Not sure if I'm following you here, Hizzy. Which individuals? What perception?

[RedScare]

A few more thoughts on this subject. One, I agree with Hizzy, that this thread has more thought in it than the usual, which is appreciated. Second, I am not suggesting that some sort of well-planned and financially supported amusement park would not help, or that the type of visitor it attracts would not be appreciated. I DO think a park like that should be located in an area that is close to other activities that this market would enjoy. That is why I believe situating a park like this near Galveston would be advantageous. It is close to the beach, Schlitterbahn, Moody Gardens and Kemah. It is also close enough to Houston for Houstonians to enjoy it. Ideally, it would have enough land to expand, as well.

As to other tourist attractions, worldlyman's posts and the destination lists that I posted bring up a good point. That is, the big draws are UNIQUE destinations. Orlando, Vegas, SF, NY and Hawaii are unique in this country. They draw both international and domestic tourists looking for something they cannot find at home.

Atlanta, Dallas and Houston, on the other hand, are NOT unique, in and of themselves. All of these Dallas/Houston threads and Houston/Atlanta threads have proven only one thing to me. That all of these cities are more alike than different. There is nothing in Dallas or Atlanta that would make me travel there, with the possible exception of Stone Mountain, GA, which isn't even in Atlanta. Same with Dallas. Residents of those cities say the same about Houston.

Woodlands Town Center is no more special than Atlanta Station or Victory. They are master planned, man-made, new retail developments with some residential interspersed. This is not to denigrate any of them, nor is it to suggest any are not successful. In fact, all of them ARE successful, which is exactly my point. These successful (and expensive) projects STILL are not enough to get the average tourist on a plane to those cities. Why? Because EVERY city has one, or more than one, or is building one.

These developments succeed only in drawing shoppers away from older shopping areas. Some, like Woodlands TC, will draw shoppers from farther away for a day trip. None draw "real" tourists, despite protests to the contrary.

This suggests to me a couple of things. Since building fancy new retail environments and calling them "unique" is similar to calling a gift unique because you change the wrapping paper, and few, if any of them attract real tourists, government should not be investing tax dollars in them. Developers, knowing that none of these projects draw real tourists, should taylor them to those who realistically use them. That means a "touristy" project near a convention center may work, but one in the suburbs will not. Three, since none of the non-unique cities is going to draw massive numbers of tourists, projects should aim to draw those who will use them...that is, LOCALS, and daytrippers from the surrounding rural areas. A popular LOCAL attraction will appeal to those few tourists that show up.

Lastly, ANY attempt by Houston to be unique will involve it's diverse population, and more likely, it's status as a coastal city. Outside of Orlando, Vegas and NY, most every popular destination is geographically desirable. Houston's geographical uniqueness lies in its bayous, bays and Gulf. Cleaning them up and promoting them will make the locals happy and distinguish Houston from everyone else.

[dbigtex56]

Houston's geographical uniqueness lies in its bayous, bays and Gulf. Cleaning them up and promoting them will make the locals happy and distinguish Houston from everyone else.

This past weekend I had the good fortune of being given a tour of Houston's East End. I'd never seen Mason Park (and I've been in Houston for 25 years.) While otherwise an attractive site, unfortunately that stretch of Braes Bayou resembles a river of trash.

What great potential our parks and bayous have, if only more Houstonians can be persuaded to stop littering and clean up the mess. A grass-roots response would have a greater impact on the attractiveness of our city than having the Feds or big-bucks developers throwing a lot of money around.

[MidtownCoog]

stop littering and clean up the mess

I have no hope for Houston in this respect.

Mayor White's initiatives have been all over the place. Sure would be nice to see him get back to basics.

Putting litter in its place would be an excellent start.

[bachanon]

A few more thoughts on this subject. One, I agree with Hizzy, that this thread has more thought in it than the usual, which is appreciated. Second, I am not suggesting that some sort of well-planned and financially supported amusement park would not help, or that the type of visitor it attracts would not be appreciated. I DO think a park like that should be located in an area that is close to other activities that this market would enjoy. That is why I believe situating a park like this near Galveston would be advantageous. It is close to the beach, Schlitterbahn, Moody Gardens and Kemah. It is also close enough to Houston for Houstonians to enjoy it. Ideally, it would have enough land to expand, as well.

As to other tourist attractions, worldlyman's posts and the destination lists that I posted bring up a good point. That is, the big draws are UNIQUE destinations. Orlando, Vegas, SF, NY and Hawaii are unique in this country. They draw both international and domestic tourists looking for something they cannot find at home.

Atlanta, Dallas and Houston, on the other hand, are NOT unique, in and of themselves. All of these Dallas/Houston threads and Houston/Atlanta threads have proven only one thing to me. That all of these cities are more alike than different. There is nothing in Dallas or Atlanta that would make me travel there, with the possible exception of Stone Mountain, GA, which isn't even in Atlanta. Same with Dallas. Residents of those cities say the same about Houston.

Woodlands Town Center is no more special than Atlanta Station or Victory. They are master planned, man-made, new retail developments with some residential interspersed. This is not to denigrate any of them, nor is it to suggest any are not successful. In fact, all of them ARE successful, which is exactly my point. These successful (and expensive) projects STILL are not enough to get the average tourist on a plane to those cities. Why? Because EVERY city has one, or more than one, or is building one.

These developments succeed only in drawing shoppers away from older shopping areas. Some, like Woodlands TC, will draw shoppers from farther away for a day trip. None draw "real" tourists, despite protests to the contrary.

This suggests to me a couple of things. Since building fancy new retail environments and calling them "unique" is similar to calling a gift unique because you change the wrapping paper, and few, if any of them attract real tourists, government should not be investing tax dollars in them. Developers, knowing that none of these projects draw real tourists, should taylor them to those who realistically use them. That means a "touristy" project near a convention center may work, but one in the suburbs will not. Three, since none of the non-unique cities is going to draw massive numbers of tourists, projects should aim to draw those who will use them...that is, LOCALS, and daytrippers from the surrounding rural areas. A popular LOCAL attraction will appeal to those few tourists that show up.

Lastly, ANY attempt by Houston to be unique will involve it's diverse population, and more likely, it's status as a coastal city. Outside of Orlando, Vegas and NY, most every popular destination is geographically desirable. Houston's geographical uniqueness lies in its bayous, bays and Gulf. Cleaning them up and promoting them will make the locals happy and distinguish Houston from everyone else.

that being said redscare, i was sorely disappointed when the houston-galveston line coming in to the station at the ballpark didn't work out in the initial or previous plans for union station. i think a line connecting nasa/seabrook would be excellent and would enhance our connection to galveston and it's connection to us (as you've said previously).

also, great thread. it's beginning to feel like the old haif around here.

[largeTEXAS]

I agree that an amusement park or otherwise Disney-style development will not do anything to help our city overcome its negative image. I think RedScare's comments about the linear bayou parks are right on. I would add to it and say that one significant, well placed piece of incredible architecture would do wonders for the city and its perception. Call it the "Bilbao Effect" or "Millimium Park Effect" or whatever. One large, exciting, breathtaking building could give the city the type of jolt it desperately needs.

Here are some examples:

Gehry's Bilbao

Liebskind's Denver Art Museum

Hadid Cincinnati Art Museum

Schwartz Silver's LSU Museum, Baton Rouge

Koolhass Seattle Library

Morphosis Caltrans, Los Angeles

[MidtownCoog]

sad thing is, our prime bayou-scapes are surround by jails and court houses...

[largeTEXAS]

sad thing is, our prime bayou-scapes are surround by jails and court houses...

It's true

[pineda]

Gorgeous photos, LargeTex, especially the art museum in Denver.

[nmainguy]

I've brought this up in previous threads: I remember seeing a master plan for all the bayous in Houston. They were to be lined on either side with esplanaded boulevards and parks. The plan especially focused on White Oak and it's boulevards converging with Buffalo Bayou's at Allens landing and then continuing on both sides downstream. Of course this plan was from the early part of the last century and the boulevards on White Oak would have been what is now E. & W. T.C. Jester. If anyone else knows where a copy of this plan is, speak up.

I think we need to take advantage and care of our bayous. I recall playing in White Oak Bayou when I was a child [OK, I'm THAT old!]. The reason we wanted to play there was because it was a real bayou-the way Buffalo Bayou is with trees, vegitation and wildlife. How many fish or cranes have you seen lanquishig on the concrete backs of a bayou? It may sound like a step backward to remove the concrete lining on the bayous-but maybe one step back will get us many more forward toward a more beautiful city for us all and our visitors.

The idea of rail to Galveston should be re-visited. Not many people know we used to have one.

Houston and Galveston were linked from 1911 to 1936 by a high-speed interurban line, whose cars covered the 50-mile distance, downtown to downtown, in as little as 75 minutes.

The Galveston-Houston interurban was famous for its 34-mile "tangent," one of the longest sections of dead straight track on any electric line in the nation. Interurban cars routinely traversed this section at 55 mph or higher -- not bad for 1911.

It is commonly believed that the Gulf Freeway (Interstate 45) was built atop the right of way of the Galveston-Houston interurban. This was indeed the case, but only for the few miles within the Houston city limits. The vast majority of the route was preserved by the Galveston Houston Corp., and eventually was used for an electric power transmission line. So it remains today, and most of the route can be followed without much difficulty from South Houston to Galveston Bay.

I'd really like to see a concerted effort to take better advantage of what we have between Houston and Galveston-NASA and Kehmah in particular with an amusment park along the way. I think until then, no amount of contrived tourist attractions will draw visitors to our area.

[VelvetJ]

Well I must also mention my satisfaction on the civility on this thread. Congratulations to everyone.

Redscare, thanks for posting the stats but my argument wasn't about Atlanta or Dallas being one of the most visited places in the country with regard to tourist. So to be quite honest, I'm not surprised niether of those places are in the top 10. My issue was Atlanta and Dallas getting more travelers for leisure than Houston. Where the three are placed in comparison with places like New York, San Fransico, Orlando, Vegas, etc., is not my concern. They will have Dal, Hou, Atl, beat for a while even into the future I'm sure.

Although I don't have the stats to back up my claim, I still believe Dallas and Atlanta get more domestic tourists than Houston. With regard to International, I must admit, I'm surprised Houston isn't ahead of both Atlanta and Dallas on that one. Because Houston is much more international in terms of population, I expected our numbers to be higher with so many international visitors visiting Houston because they have family here. Since I have been in Houston, it is MY personal experience that when people from other countries come to Houston it is not really for the city itself. In MY experience they have come here either because they have family here they are visiting, they have need to utilize the Texas Medical Center's facilities for health reasons, or they have come from Mexico for a day or two to shop at the Galleria. For the most part, I have rarely come across someone who have come here for leisurely vacation reasons unless, they were from smaller cities in East Texas or Louisiana. I typically have not come across many who have come to Houston because of it's attractions like some would do for say like a Chicago or Los Angeles.

With regard to an amusement park, I don't think for a second that an amusement park is the key to our future. However, I do believe it is one of those things that can make a large Metro more exciting, particularly ones such as Houston that do not have established historic, or natural attractions. And a good quality Park could actually help define the area. People literally travel from around the world to visit Cedar Point in Ohio not because Cleveland is such a fantastic place (no offense Cleveland) but because the quality of the park and the rides is so high. I view a park in Houston like our rail in a way. Although it is currently only 7 miles long and it's purpose was to get people out of their cars, IMO when it opened, Houston's cool points went up a few notches. Now, whenever I see Houston advertised in any sort of way, that rail train is one of the first things that is shown. It's serves it's purpose but it is also just a darn cool thing to have, on top of it impressing visitors to the city, and a lot of that is soley based upon it's appearance. Because I do love Theme Parks, one of the first things I expect a large city that offers different entertainment options, is an Amusement Park. In fact I have come to almost expect very large cities to have one at least a reasonable distance close by. I kind of view it as one of those things large cities are suppose to have.

Also, I had never been a fan of AstroWorlds location. I would LOVE to see a park out 288 or somewhere near Texas City on I-45. Hey, I am even a fan of a park one day possibly being built up 59 North not far from Kingwood because there would be a lot of natural shade for the park and planting trees for shade wouldn't be as big of an issue as it would for a park being built in an open Meadow or on a coastal plain. A park in Houston city limits, I say no. Not to mention it would probably be cheaper to build it in another county.

Great Hizzy- I will try my best to stay on subject here. Although I describe myself as a bed-wetting Democrat with a liberal soul but possess a visible conervative streak, I hear what you are saying about the media. And as much as I would like to disagree with you about it, I can't. Unfair and misguided is actually how I would describe it as well, and I think you and I both know why that is. But, I do think there is something that we can do, however it will have to be a process that will take a little time. We can counter it with not only our current truth but with our future truth as well.

OH CRAP, I have to go but I will continue this very soon. I will pick it up with my thoughts about the Wheel of Fortune when they came to Houston a few years ago and the image that was left from it. I will return.

[Montrose1100]

Although some would not agree, I think Houston is a cultural gold mine, waiting to explode.

It might happen, it might not.

[dbigtex56]

Perhaps we're better off without tourism.

I've found that people who live in tourist towns grow leery about people who visit sheerly for pleasure. The East Village in NYC or the French Quarter in New Orleans are, on weekdays, interesting and fairly quiet neighborhoods. The locals tend to dread weekends, because it's the tourists who are whooping it up in the wee hours of the morning, littering, and urinating on people's doorsteps. I'm sure that Houstonians who live near the nightclub district of downtown or the Pacific Street strip know what I'm talking about.

As VelvetJ pointed out, people tend to visit Houston for reasons other than tourism, and are pleasantly surprised at what they find here. Seems to me that we're getting some of the benefits of tourism without the downside.

[heights_yankee]

Perhaps we're better off without tourism.

I've found that people who live in tourist towns grow leery about people who visit sheerly for pleasure. The East Village in NYC or the French Quarter in New Orleans are, on weekdays, interesting and fairly quiet neighborhoods. The locals tend to dread weekends, because it's the tourists who are whooping it up in the wee hours of the morning, littering, and urinating on people's doorsteps. I'm sure that Houstonians who live near the nightclub district of downtown or the Pacific Street strip know what I'm talking about.

As VelvetJ pointed out, people tend to visit Houston for reasons other than tourism, and are pleasantly surprised at what they find here. Seems to me that we're getting some of the benefits of tourism without the downside.

I agree. I am a hard core "townie" from an area that attracts a lot of out of towners. The tourists tend to bring trash, impatience and a general disregard for a place that is not where they live. I think Houston needs to make itself the best possible city for those of us who already live here (and, yes, that means a train to Galveston should we be so inclined) and build up our reputation as a business center. Bring corporate money here. The tourism dollars will follow without overwhelming us.

[Gary]

that being said redscare, i was sorely disappointed when the houston-galveston line coming in to the station at the ballpark didn't work out in the initial or previous plans for union station. i think a line connecting nasa/seabrook would be excellent and would enhance our connection to galveston and it's connection to us (as you've said previously).

also, great thread. it's beginning to feel like the old haif around here.

Being a lover of Galveston, I would love to see a rail line connecting to Houston. I have no idea how the existing frieght line's run from say Downtown to the Seawall, but is there a chance one might be usable for this purpose?