Cigarette Smoking Bans & Ordinances

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Houstonian I think I remember you saying you are not a smoker correct? I'm just asking, how often do you frequent bars? Will this stop you from going into bars? Does this affect your life in any way, shape or form? I know you have a right to an opinion, but you are almost acting as if they are enacting a mandatory herpes injection upon entry to a bar. However, I would ask if you think the majority of americans (or houstonians) are smokers or non smokers. My guess would be something like 70% non/ 30% smokers. So doesn't the majority get some kind of say here + don't you think people at one point said the idea of banning smoking on planes or in an office was stupid as well? It doesn't set any precedent that didn't already exist anyway, its just furthering that precedent. The battle has already been lost on smokers rights, just look at the taxes and cost for a pack versus 5-6 years ago. I personally am thrilled about the ban.

You are correct i am not a smoker. When i have entered bars i have noticed that half if not most of the patrons are smokers. Some people that dont smoke regularly will have a smoke when they enter a bar. It doesnt offend me one bit, and I dont believe in damning thier rights to hell to appease some jackassed group of legislating idiots, especially in our CAPITALIST SOCIETY. If they are so damned concerned about smoking in bars, do the proper thing and encourage entrepenuers to establish non smoking bars and leave the others alone. Im not big on over legislation and big government in any way shape or form, and this is yet another act that puts government into the lives of private citizens. This BS legislation, as i read it, also extends to private clubs/bars. IN_FREAKIN'_SANITY !!!!!!!

[Double L]

To me when you're in a bar you're too close to other people and the chance of second hand smoke effects is too high.

[GREASER]

now can we just get rid on all the damn fajita smoke at restraunts...

[westguy76]

You said it.

They will never understand because they are communist swine. They keep taking away a little more of our freedom everyday. They wish to turn us in to an abomination, like themselves, mindless robots roaming the land quietly like a herd. One of these idiotic city council members, I think Aida Edwards, said something to the effect that smoking is still legal and sex is still legal unless it is in public. I really don't see the relationship there. I wonder whats next on the list because it sure as hell isn't drugs. Maybe next it will be banning people from playing video games and watching movies because of their addictivness and unhealthy lifestyle it brings. Then we could outlaw fast food. Who needs that fatty stuff? Followed by any vehicle that gets less than 50mpg. We can force millions of people on to our polluted buses and help traffic flow at the same time. We could also ban people from wearing certain styles of clothing, due to the relationship to gangs.

Maybe instead, we should ban republicans and democrats from running for office.

every time i think i am done posting in this thread. I see that people still are not thinking about this straight and its probably a lost cause but dammit people pay attention now! here it goes.

unlike the stupid @ss arguements in this post smoking effects other people. when you choose to eat fast food you are not affedting the health of the person sitting next to you. The same with addictive movies/games?, pollution is controlled , however a neccessary evil in our society until there is a better alternative.

Edited October 20, 2006 by westguy76

[musicman]

From the Chronicle...

The only exemption included in White's proposal that was rejected by the council was for private functions held by nonprofit organizations at their own facilities.

The rule would have permitted the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, for example, to continue its annual One Great Night in November fundraiser at the museum. It's billed as an old-fashioned smoker, a black-tie event at which men smoke cigars and vote on art to be purchased with the proceeds from the $1,000-a-plate dinner.

The panel voted to allow smoking in designated meeting rooms. But several members said they were uneasy because the exemption allows smoking at some city facilities, including the George R. Brown Convention Center.

I find it ironic that the City is afraid to ban smoking at the GRB. Bar owners are complaining that business would be hurt. Obviously the City thinks convention business would be hurt too without smoking. Mr. White's kettle doesn't appear to be so white.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I find it ironic that the City is afraid to ban smoking at the GRB. Bar owners are complaining that business would be hurt. Obviously the City thinks convention business would be hurt too without smoking. Mr. White's kettle doesn't appear to be so white.

This is a case where the lunatics have taken over the assylum. The Houston City Council is no more than a 3 Ring Circus and Bill White is the head CLOWN!!!!!

[musicman]

This is a case where the lunatics have taken over the assylum. The Houston City Council is no more than a 3 Ring Circus and Bill White is the head CLOWN!!!!!

HI....I'm bill white....Mayor of U-ston. reading the article pissed me off enough to sign up to speak before council next week.

[nmainguy]

This is a case where the lunatics have taken over the assylum.

So YOU'RE the new warden. Congratulations. BTW, you said earlier you don't smoke but you weren't counting crack, were you? {C'mon, lunaboy, fess up }

lunaboy finds another use for his big mouth:

[reddog]

Leave it to the darn business owner. If you don't want to go to a smokey bar, go to a bar where the owner has decided it is going to be non smoking, just like you go to the restaraunt where the owner has decided to sell salads instead of french fries.

Last I checked most bars made money selling cigarettes. Part of the revenue stream is going to be hurt here.

I am a non smoker so this doesn't really affect me, but I will be damned the day someone tells me I can't fart in the bathroom because the guy in the next stall is going to complain he can't breathe.

[SunKing]

Again this smoking ban is STUPID. This is a capitalist society! How about supporting capitalism by encouraging entrepenuers that are against smoking to open up smoke free bars instead of stifling capitalism by creating these STUPID AND RIDICULOUS ordinances!!!! that would be a great exercise in protection of person freedoms instead of these BS ordinances that serve no purpose other than to piss me off and piss off other freedom loving individuals!

AMEN!!

... If they are so damned concerned about smoking in bars, do the proper thing and encourage entrepenuers to establish non smoking bars and leave the others alone. Im not big on over legislation and big government in any way shape or form, and this is yet another act that puts government into the lives of private citizens. This BS legislation, as i read it, also extends to private clubs/bars. IN_FREAKIN'_SANITY !!!!!!!

Yep, it's a sad day for freedom. Forget letting the market, and private business owners make decisions about how they will run their business. ...makes me glad I live outside of the city limits now. Oh, and I don't smoke either - I'm just against this on principle alone.

... dammit people pay attention now! here it goes.

unlike the stupid @ss arguements in this post smoking effects other people. when you choose to eat fast food you are not affedting the health of the person sitting next to you. The same with addictive movies/games?, pollution is controlled , however a neccessary evil in our society until there is a better alternative.

A necessary evil - like cars. You ever tried jogging in Memorial park, down Memorial between 4 and 6 pm? The amount of exhaust fumes you breath in can give you a headache. Maybe we should look at some type of automobile ban. Oh, and all those petrochemical plants that fuel our economy...well, do really think second hand cigarette smoke is worse?

[sevfiv]

perhaps these bans are (good intentioned?) reactions to unholistically solve a problem in our society. of course, it is a horrible way to go about it, starting that far down the line (bars/restaurants).

then again, even with all the proselytizing about the dangers of smoking to youngsters (and everyone else), people still choose to do it (and we won't even get into the whole deal about giving your money to philip morris, rj reynolds et. al. hell, even american spirit is owned by rj reynolds!)

Edited October 27, 2006 by sevfiv

[musicman]

perhaps these bans are (good intentioned?) reactions to unholistically solve a problem in our society. of course, it is a horrible way to go about it, starting that far down the line (bars/restaurants).

then again, even with all the proselytizing about the dangers of smoking to youngsters (and everyone else), people still choose to do it (and we won't even get into the whole deal about giving your money to philip morris, rj reynolds et. al. hell, even american spirit is owned by rj reynolds!)

i was behind the ban initially. however when i found out that the city excluded the george r brown because they didn't want to lose conventions, I changed my mind. how can you tell businesses it won't hurt their business and yet do something that contradicts?

[sevfiv]

i was behind the ban initially. however when i found out that the city excluded the george r brown because they didn't want to lose conventions, I changed my mind. how can you tell businesses it won't hurt their business and yet do something that contradicts?

yeah, that is some crap...

The panel voted narrowly, 8-7, to allow smoking in designated meeting rooms. But several members said they were uneasy because the exemption allows smoking at some city facilities, including the George R. Brown Convention Center.

"We tell people that we want them to do it (ban smoking), but we're going to exempt ourselves," Councilwoman Ada Edwards said. "I'm not very comfortable with that."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/4274631.html

[musicman]

Hopes for a statewide ban on smoking in bars haven't gone up in smoke, but backers are trying to figure out how to fix the proposal after it was gutted by a House amendment.

As it originally hit the House floor Friday, the bill by Rep. Myra Crownover would have banned smoking in workplaces, including restaurants and bars, with an exception for cigar bars.

But Rep. Harold Dutton painted the cigar-bar exemption as an elitist one, saying that people who go to regular bars should have the same rules as those who frequent fancy cigar bars.

"You don't find cigar bars in inner-city neighborhoods," said Dutton, D-Houston. "If we're going to allow it over there (in neighborhoods with cigar bars), it seems to me that it's only fair that we allow (it) on the other side of town."

Among those objecting to the amendment on economic grounds was Rep. Charlie Geren, R-Fort Worth, who's in the barbecue restaurant business. He said the ban should be equal among bars and restaurants.

An effort to kill Dutton's amendment exempting bars, and some other establishments such as bingo halls, failed on a vote of 65-73.

full article

[TJones]

yeah, that is some crap...

The panel voted narrowly, 8-7, to allow smoking in designated meeting rooms. But several members said they were uneasy because the exemption allows smoking at some city facilities, including the George R. Brown Convention Center.

"We tell people that we want them to do it (ban smoking), but we're going to exempt ourselves," Councilwoman Ada Edwards said. "I'm not very comfortable with that."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/4274631.html

Sev, it is still the whole, "Let them eat cake!" mentality. The haves always find the loophole, where as the havenots are always the ones to pay the price. I just hope Ms. Edwards voted No, since she didn't feel comfortable. If there is always a doubt in your mind, then there is probably something wrong witht he situation as it is.

[PureAuteur]

Are we talking about the proposed state-wide ban on smoking in bars or the city ordinance? I think the city ordinance has already been made into law, and it will take effect in September of this year.

[musicman]

Are we talking about the proposed state-wide ban on smoking in bars or the city ordinance? I think the city ordinance has already been made into law, and it will take effect in September of this year.

i'd state regulation might supercede the city one. good point though pure.

[lockmat]

When was this announced?

http://www.houstontx.gov/health/Environmen...%20and%20a.html

Smoking is prohibited in enclosed public places. Public places are places in which the public is invited or permitted. Restaurants, bars, museums, libraries, public and private schools, convention centers, theaters, bingo halls, bowling alleys, buses, taxicabs, retail establishments, shopping malls, lobbies, restrooms, and hallways of apartment or condominium buildings are a few examples of enclosed public places where smoking is prohibited except under very limited circumstances

Malls have always been smoke free, right?

[musicman]

When was this announced?

http://www.houstontx.gov/health/Environmen...%20and%20a.html

Malls have always been smoke free, right?

there's another thread on this here. malls have not always been smoke free.

Edited August 2, 2007 by musicman

[Guest Marty]

I remember my grandma smoking in Greenspoint Mall in the early 1980's.

[TheNiche]

When was this announced?

http://www.houstontx.gov/health/Environmen...%20and%20a.html

Malls have always been smoke free, right?

Most of these places have been smoke-free because it was up to the owner. In most establishments, smoke-free environments are good for business. Sometimes, the reverse is true, but apparently that proprietors could cater to their customers' preferences offended some control freaks, so here we are.

I don't smoke, but control freaks offend me, so by their own logic, I think we should outlaw them from public places.

[lockmat]

Most of these places have been smoke-free because it was up to the owner.

That's what I figured but I wasn't sure.

Albuquerque here has a new ordinance saying absolutely no smoking on city property. So people at our baseball stadium actually have to go across the street to smoke since it's city owned.

there's another thread on this here. malls have not always been smoke free.

Apparently I'm horrible at this search thing. I tried all kind of words and filters. I received threads on everything but smoking.

[musicman]

Apparently I'm horrible at this search thing. I tried all kind of words and filters. I received threads on everything but smoking.

try the search titles only option. i am luckier that way

[millennica]

Albuquerque here has a new ordinance saying absolutely no smoking on city property. So people at our baseball stadium actually have to go across the street to smoke since it's city owned.

The City of Davis, CA has a city-wide ban on smoking.

6.6.1) Davis, California = No smoking zone. There is no smoking in Davis by city ordinance. Not in any business establishment nor within 20 feet of any business establishment. The only place you can smoke is in your own home.

[lockmat]

The only place you can smoke is in your own home.

That's verbatim per the city?

[millennica]

That's verbatim per the city?

The law is so restrictive that people say the only place it is possible to smoke is in one's home. Here's the municipal code that bans smoking in Davis.

City of Davis

Municipal Code Section 34.02.010. Prohibition of Smoking in Places Accessible to the General Public

Smoking shall be prohibited in the following outdoor areas, except while

passing on the way to another destination, within 20 feet or building of or close enough

to the following areas for smoke to travel into an area or building, where

smoking is prohibited, whichever is greater.

Public events including, but not limited to, sports events, entertainment, speaking performances,

ceremonies, pageants, and fairs

Seating provided by eating establishments and bars

Entrances and exits to enclosed public areas

Within the entryway of any enclosed public area

Stairways

Within courtyards and other areas where air circulation may be impeded by architectural, landscaping, or other barriers

Areas not open to the sky

Any place where people are using or waiting for a service, entry, or a transaction, including but not limited to ATMs, bank teller windows, telephones, ticket lines, bus stops, and cab stands

Any places where food and/or drink is offered for sale

Children's play areas

Public gardens

Open windows of any enclosed public area

[lockmat]

The law is so restrictive that people say the only place it is possible to smoke is in one's home. Here's the municipal code that bans smoking in Davis.

I wonder how the law will change once more scientific evidence comes out. I'm pretty sure I heard from a reliable source that second hand smoke isn't really that bad for you.

[millennica]

I wonder how the law will change once more scientific evidence comes out. I'm pretty sure I heard from a reliable source that second hand smoke isn't really that bad for you.

The Davis no smoking ordinance has been in place for more than decade. Knowing Davis as I do, I doubt that the law will change.

[hokieone]

I know the Houston ban is scheduled to go into place Spetember 1st, but how quickly do you all think the effects will take place? There are quite a few bars in Houston and I just don't see them all flipping the switch like that. The only way it would seem to take place is if the city is aggressive enough to enforce it or else it turns into another "anti homeless" midtown type ordinance, which is never enforced. does anyone know if police officers are able to enforce it or is it a different agency? is the bar fined as well (which to me would make the law actually work) or the invidual smoking? If the bar has no stake in it, i can see them just turning the other way.

[Reefmonkey]

I am glad to see this happening, hopefully it will go all the way this time.

Second-hand smoke is a public health issue, as well as a nuisance. I like to go drink in bars - why should I have to endure someone else's second-hand smoke, and my clothes reeking, to do it?

Why should asthmatics not be able to enjoy bars because of others' disgusting habits?

Working in bars is flexible hours and good money for people like students, why should they have the choice of "either accept the smoke or find another job"? That's like telling mine workers "no we're not going to improve ventilation, either accept you're going to get Black Lung or find another job." We ban smoking in workplaces, right? Guess what? For the people who work in a bar, that bar is a workplace. Done.

For those who say bars are private establishments, and the owners should be able to make the decision, come on. People used to make the claim that restaurants were "private establishments" and therefore should be able to decide whether or not to serve black people. That ultimately didn't stand up to scrutiny. Public health trumps the rights of "private establishments" all the time. Ethnic restaurants may have "traditional" ways of making certain dishes, but if they don't pass health code, they aren't allowed to serve them. The owners can't just say "well, if people don't want to risk salmonella, they should eat elsewhere."

Edited August 2, 2007 by Reefmonkey