Historic Houston Visionaries & Most Prominent Socialites

[MidtownCoog]

high-rise office towers rising next door to single-family residences.

Off San Felipe, Buffalo Speedway and the 5 Post Oak Plaza area just to name a few.

[shasta]

Would it be fair to presume that, since nobody (including Shasta) has posted even ONE example, perhaps this is more urban myth than fact?  I wish we could put these myths about the effects of no-zoning to rest. 

Another one that deserves a decent burial is the myth that Houston has high-rise office towers rising next door to single-family residences.  I have previously asked for examples of this phenomenon (which is oft-repeated in the Houston media AND on GlassSteelandSone.com).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Houston 19514, if you believe that Houston is a fine, shining, example of urban planning then that's fine- I respect your opinion. The truth is that most people who "actually" study and do this for a living actually cringe at what could have been and what has become reality for this city. And I'm not even going to go into the environmental implications. Frank Llyoyd Wright once likened our city to an STD- something that grossly grows out of control.

Now back to Montrose- It was originally created as a street car suburb (yes- tracks of mass transit went here) and was named after a town in Scotland. Most of the houses have since been torn down, some renovated, I'm not saying the ecclectic feel of today's "Montrose" is bad - I'm just saying the city has nothing in place to preserve the intended character of urban planning. A lot of hard work goes into trying to create this 'sense of place'

This is evident in Midtown- how can you design with an intention of pedestrian frieldy areas if there is nothing stopping someone from building a CVS that kills all momentum.

All of Houston should not be zoned- only a small portion to preserve the romanticism the area is trying to create. I mean do you think a giant discount furniture store should belong next to the MFA?

[pineda]

In reference to an earlier thread, I think bears repeating; in terms of pedestrian-friendly, check out this story about Gonzalo Camacho in the Houston Press and his idea of a tunnel under I-45 to preserve green spaces above:

story in Houston Press about Gonzalo Camacho

Gonzalo's idea of a tunnel

Gonzalo Camacho is someone whom I would consider a Houston visionary!

[N Judah]

The truth is that most people who "actually" study and do this for a living actually cringe at what could have been and what has become reality for this city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So? And people who actually work for a living are happy and optimistic about being here.

[sevfiv]

The truth is that most people who "actually" study and do this for a living actually cringe at what could have been and what has become reality for this city.

Right, and people who actually work for a living are happy and optimistic about being here.

i would tend to agree with shasta on that one -

and i imagine the "actually working for a living" people are optimistic about being here, but just might prefer to have tunnel vision when looking at what has (and could have been) a reality for this city (if, of course, they are interested in and notice trends in architecture and urban planning...heh).

[Houston19514]

Houston 19514, if you believe that Houston is a fine, shining,  example of urban planning then that's fine- I respect your opinion. The truth is that most people who "actually" study and do this for a living actually cringe at what could have been and what has become reality for this city.  And I'm not even going to go into the environmental implications. Frank Llyoyd Wright once likened our city to an STD- something that grossly grows out of control.

Now back to Montrose- It was originally created as a street car suburb (yes- tracks of mass transit went  here) and was named after a town in Scotland. Most of the houses have since been torn down, some renovated, I'm not saying the ecclectic feel of today's "Montrose" is bad - I'm just saying the city has nothing in place to preserve the intended character of urban planning. A lot of hard work goes into trying to create this 'sense of place'

This is evident in Midtown- how can you design with an intention of pedestrian frieldy areas if there is nothing stopping someone from building a CVS that kills all momentum.

All of Houston should not be zoned- only a small portion to preserve the romanticism the area is trying to create. I mean do you think a giant discount furniture store should belong next to the MFA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With regard to your first sentence, of course you know I never said any such thing. We were talking about zoning, not urban planning. There is a difference. A city can have either one without the other. What I do think, though, is that Houston is an example of how little real difference is made by the lack of zoning. The differences between Houston and other similarly-situated cities are more the result of frontage roads, billboards and signage ordinances and other non-zoning matters.

Regarding your tangential discussion of Montrose, I would like to see the city do a better job of encouraging pedestrian-quality development as well. But that is not really a matter of zoning. Zoning merely tells us what KIND of activity can be conducted on a certain property (and very often requires only ONE kind of activity per property, thus eliminating the mixed-use development that we'd like to see to create an urban, pedestrian-oriented environment). Other land-use regulations, building codes, etc. impose other requirements on developments, such as building setback requirements, parking-space requirements, etc. Houston has such regulations. Unfortunately, in areas such as Montrose, Medical Center, Midtown, the requirements often seem to be the WRONG requirements. You can overlay all the zoning you want, but if you don't change the parking and setback requirements, you aren't going to get any more of a pedestrian environment than you have now.

Regarding your last sentence... IS there a giant discount furniture store next to the MFAH? If there is, I've never noticed it. You are sort of making my point for me with that comment. One would think that only in a city with zoning could one have as lovely an area of town as the Museum District, with virtually no intrusion by discount stores. But there it is, right there in the middle of the nation's largest unzoned city, with nary a discount furniture store to be seen...

Overall, then, since you completely avoided the point, I guess I'll mark you done as agreeing that the myth that developers all over Houston tear down single family houses in the middle of residential neighborhoods to replace them with gasoline stations and pawn shops next door to homes is just that... a myth.

[shasta]

So?  And people who actually work for a living are happy and optimistic about being here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not about optimism- so am I.... but the people who are trained in this field know that we should expect more from our city from a planning, organization, coordination, design, and aesthetic standpoint. So when people view this city it's laughable. It's hard to explain but the benefits of 'planning' can far outweigh the current condition.

It is going to take peple like you, NJudah, and the rest of the living-working class to take pride in this city to make it better.

I seriously recommend that anyone who is interested in this read about the benefits of urban planning, city beautification, and the like.

Houstonians should demand more after all this is home... refer to my post on the previous page about attitudes toward cities, their growth, and their planning.

[shasta]

With regard to your first sentence, of course you know I never said any such thing.

[Houston19514]

I don't know why you are trying to justify your stance. Zoning and Urban planning can often work in unison. Here is the definition of zoning from Dictionary.com

ZONING: An area or a region distinguished from adjacent parts by a distinctive feature or characteristic.

If you want to zone mixed use projects in the zone you CAN- the zoning laws can be what ever you make of them. It's not always a straight residential/ Industrial/ Commercial Zone. Oh, and freeways can be zoned- stretches of 288 are- they must retain their natural apperance, 45, 59, 610 are not and you see what you get- ask anyone if this type of development is attractive.

And about the museum district- it is the only part of the city that actually has any true charm- the museums, the meacom fountain circle on axis with the statue of Sam Houston, etc.  My point is that there is NOTHING stopping someone from buiding what ever they want assuming they purchase the land. Luckily the MFA owns some of the lots behind the Glassel but that 's not the point.

Nothing has been implemented to protect and preserve the Museum District by means of  zoning or urban planning or whatever else you want to call it.

Yes, this city does have MANY urban planning projects in the works (Main Street Corridor, Bayou Plan, Downtown 2025, etc).  Unfortunately, the city has no power to actually see any of it's visions implemented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what "stance" is it you think I am trying to "justify"?

[shasta]

What I do think, though, is that Houston is an example of how little real difference is made by the lack of zoning. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Houston19514]

I guess I don't understand your question. I don't know why one would take a "stance" if they didn't intend to try to "justify" it. I would like to see your counterarguments showing me where I am wrong... What about Houston's development is different from other similarly-situated cities, that can reasonably be attributed to the lack of zoning. I am well aware of what zoning means. There has been nothing whatever in my posts to suggest otherwise. And regarding your statements that zoning can allow for mixed use, I already alluded to that fact in my earlier post, but thank you for the clarification. But again, a "mixed-use" zoning, without the proper building regulations, setback requirements, etc. will NOT necessarily result in a pedestrian-oriented urban environment. Montrose is already the epitome of mixed-use.

If I may add to my "stance", what I am saying is that zoning is neither necessary nor sufficient to achieve good urban planning. I want to make clear that I am NOT arguing against all land-use or building regulations or urban planning. I am not really even arguing against the concept of zoning. I am merely arguing for a realistic view of what zoning can and cannot achieve and also, more to the point, a realistic accounting of the results of the lack of zoning. If you will recall, this exchange was started by your statement: "Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?" I am still waiting for your examples.

[Houston19514]

Off San Felipe, Buffalo Speedway and the 5 Post Oak Plaza area just to name a few.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? Next-door? I could be wrong, but I think you exaggerate. (I just checked on Google satellite, and at least as to the towers on San Felipe and 5 Post Oak Plaza, I don't see any houses next door.)

And are they "60-story" towers as the GlassSteelandStone" website claims? And would it really be fair to say (as "GlassSteelandStone" says) that such an occurrence is "not uncommon?"

There may be occasional single-family residences across the street from a high-rise building, but I see that in zoned cities all over America. Again, the differences between unzoned Houston and zoned cities generally don't seem to be caused by the lack of zoning.

[MidtownCoog]

One block over.

How is any different than NYC?

NYC wishes they had "single family" residences. But they think living like, and with, the rats is cool.

[RedScare]

"Yes, this city does have MANY urban planning projects in the works (Main Street Corridor, Bayou Plan, Downtown 2025, etc). Unfortunately, the city has no power to actually see any of it's visions implemented. "

I'll remember this when I walk out of my office in a few minutes and walk on the brick sidewalk to the corner and wait for the train to pass before crossing the street.

[HeightsGuy]

Another Houston Visionary:

The guys that founded Trees for Houston. I don't know the history (perhaps someone can give us a quick recap), but I do know that they have planted a whole lot of trees.

[YakuzaIce]

The guys that founded Trees for Houston...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point, is anyone else on this forum also part of trees for houston?

[shasta]

I'll remember this when I walk out of my office in a few minutes and walk on the brick sidewalk to the corner and wait for the train to pass before crossing the street.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly my point.

[RedScare]

This is the view on my street.

http://www.pbase.com/lwh/image/25786347

Explain to me again how the city has no power to see its visions implemented.

[shasta]

This is the view on my street.

http://www.pbase.com/lwh/image/25786347

Explain to me again how the city has no power to see its visions implemented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must I REALLY explain to you how LONG it took to install a light rail system downtown when the city had a rail system all up downtown and a commuter line to Galveston a century ago. Yes, they got it done in time for the Super Bowl, they added the pavers- that's great. The city also hired a number of out of state architecture firms to do a study on the future development alongthe Main Street Corridor- they don't have any authority to implement how any of the land will be developed according to this vision.

The streets are not private property so they can take care of that. But I must say they are starting to flex some of the land use powers with the new urban park/ urban space. I just wish they would go one step further and legally adopt a plan for how the land around the park should be developed as an example.

[RedScare]

Well, I suppose I see the point you are trying to make. But, I don't know that it is the city's job (or any city), to actually build the buildings as well as the infrastructure.

However, the city has done some of that, as well. With the county, Houston built the Reliant Stadium, Minute Maid Ballpark and Toyota Center. They also built massive exhibition space at Reliant. METRO rebuilt Main Street, and with the city, all of downtown's major thoroughfares (only Travis and Caroline are left).

The city spent $30 million on the Cotswold Project, to rebuild North downtown and add sidewalks and streetlighting. They spent millions to repave sidewalks around Toyota Center and the GRB. The city expanded the GRB by 50%, and when no hotel would build the Hilton Americas, the city built it itself.

The city renovated Baldwin Park in midtown, Root Park across from Toyota and is in the process of building an $80 million dollar, 14 acre park across from the GRB. They have built bike paths along Buffalo Bayou and are completing some more near Tinsley Park.

The County hasn't sat on its hands, either. It has built two 20 story courthouses and is renovating 3 more, including the historic 1900 Courthouse to house the 1st and 14th Courts of Appeals. It has constructed 2 new jails that are more efficient to run across the bayou, freeing up downtown space for happier uses. It is selling some of its excess historic properties for renovation for private uses. It is building a plaza in the center of the courthouse complex to serve as park space for courthouse users.

The city and county have more projects moving forward, including a complete overhaul of Buffalo Bayou. All of these projects have been completed within the last 5 or 6 years.

The city and county have set the table and prepared the food. Must they feed us as well?

[shasta]

Well, I suppose I see the point you are trying to make.  But, I don't know that it is the city's job (or any city), to actually build the buildings as well as the infrastructure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm well aware of all the work the city has done with the courthouses, GRB, Sports facilities, hotel, etc. etc. Believe I follow all of it,

All I'm saying is that the city would better served if they implemented some kind of plan than gears 'private' development toward their vision instead of the other way around.

What is the point of having a rail line that is capable of serving a number of people efficiently if all you get built along the line are strip centers, gas stations, and vacant lots. (an extreme example of course)

Wouldn't it validate the hard work the city has put in if they could implement a type of development that would 'benefit' the rail line instead of detracting from it. The city could mandate just the type of buildings or they could become really strict and detail style, materials, height, etc. But something is better than nothing.

All I'm trying to say is I wish the city would take control of the future growth of the city instead of being suserviant to the developers whim.

This city is still a 'tabula rusa' -we can still become any type of place that we want but that window is closing fast.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I will say this... regarding zoning, billboards and strip malls all along the North freeway... there really isn't that big of a difference between it and I-35 in northern Austin or the Thornton Freeway (I-30) in East Dallas. Billboards, strip malls, parking lots, feeder roads... and so forth.

The difference is the holier than thou visitor from the airport won't see this on their way downtown (although, you do still see it on I-35 in southern Austin but not to the same degree) in Austin or Dallas but will in Houston (unless they take the Sam Houston or the Eastex instead).

Furthermore, in Miami, along Biscayne Blvd on the north side there are a handful of fairly tall 15-25 story office buildings on one side (west side) of the boulevard and a pretty prominent residential area on the other, then a long strip of shady, prostitution-infested motels. From what I remember of Atlanta (particularly Buckhead), a couple of those office towers are across the street from some sprawling residential neighborhoods as well.

The only thing that I notice is that in Houston I see more clusters of "business districts" than most cities and a greater scattering of warehouse districts. THOSE two may be a result of no zoning but I'm not sure about it. It is, however, fairly unique to Houston compared to most cities.

[N Judah]

It is going to take peple like you, NJudah, and the rest of the living-working class to take pride in this city to make it better.

I seriously recommend that anyone who is interested in this read about the benefits of urban planning, city beautification, and the like.

Houstonians should demand more after all this is home... refer to my post on the previous page about attitudes toward cities, their growth, and their planning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read your post and I think it's too soon to start "beautifying" the city. Houston's economy is still not diverse enough to implement policies which will restrict its entrepreneurial spirit and make it a more expensive place to live.

I say Houston should stick with what it seems to have been doing all along -- set up the transportation routes first and then let the market decide the best use for the land. My only problem with Houston is that transportation projects are still too skewed in favor of the automobile...

[KimberlySayWhat]

Who do you think are Houston's most prominent socialites, not only of today, but of all time?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/KimberlyM12/cfarb02.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/KimberlyM12/08m.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/KimberlyM12/LynnWyattWEB.jpg

[KatieDidIt]

Mary Elizabeth Meacham Hahnfield.

M.E. would be one of this generation's foremost socialites..in Houston that is.

Of course, Gigi (Hunan) thinks she's one too.

PS- How old is that picture of Carolyn Farb? <gonna hide now>

Edited October 2, 2006 by KatieDidIt

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Does Barbara Bush count?

[KimberlySayWhat]

Speaking of Carolyn Farb, I asked this queston before but never got an answer: how did her son die? I was once on her website and there was a page dedicated to the memory of her son. Looking at the picture he looked strong and athletic. I was curious about what happened to him. I think he passed away a couple of years ago.

Edited October 2, 2006 by KimberlySayWhat

[TJones]

I vote for Alvin Van Black, R.I.P.

[KatieDidIt]

I think Kenyon died of some sort of sudden heart problem.

I wouldn't call Mrs. Bush a socialite. She is more of a Houston Landmark and a do-gooder.

[Pumapayam]

I don't know here name, but she is old like Carolyn.

shops at Nieman Marcus and Saks Fifth Ave at least 3 times a week.

has jet black hair, (colored) and usually in a tight bun.

porcelin white skin.

like to wear animal patterns and gold colored clothing.

high heels and skirts that show off the bottom of her legs.

skinny framed and seems pretty fit

soft spoken

like I mentioned, i don't know her name, but she is always spending $$$ and I see he in those PAPER CITY fund raisers all the time.