Historic Houston Visionaries & Most Prominent Socialites

[YakuzaIce]

Hey, how about offering a free VCR for every apartment rental?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

I bet there are a bunch of visionaries around Houston. Many probably on this board. But the problem is likely they are not the ones with money. But maybe if the for example res. market gets good enough we may have visionary developers from other cities coming here.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Hey, UrbaNerd! Help me out here!

[shasta]

City planning/ growth/ development is a funny thing. It's almost as if cities go through different phases. In the early to mid 1800's when America was pushing westward the East Coast (notably New York City) looked for a city to act as a trade route or outpost for their transfer of goods from the Erie Canal, Great lakes and down the Mississippi River- so many Eastern Capitalists from Boston and New York poured money into developing Chicago but their profits and their money came back to the Eastern cities where they put the money earned in Chicago to 'beautify' their cities. This is the same model the British used with Boston and New York centuries before. Chicago has plenty examples of horrible EARLY city planning particularily in it's race relations and public housing. They didn't know how to handle the vast immigration and the Southern influx.

Soon Chicago had a enough loyalty and support for the city that new businessmen made it their goal to 'beautify' their city and they looked for other markets to make money so they could invest their money back in to Chicago- one good example of this was the Chicago and Detroit businessmen that profitted from Los Angeles where land was being speculated and divided at a record pace and most of the early settlers were from the great lakes and America 'heartland' parts of the country where LA was highly promoted. The automobile was advertised as the future and LA's vast train system was replaced with roads.

Soon, albeit still in the process, people in Los Angeles have started caring enough about their city to influence it's growth- it was the first US city with a zoning plan.

This brings us to Houston which in the 60's and 70's was a field day for anyone looking to make a quick buck in the real estate, oil, or banking markets. Zoning and city planning was frowned upon- it was a 'true' anything goes, western frontier. After all the market will establish what the city will look like. And so they built our city- but their intention never was to contribute toward the urban fabric, beauty, or charm, of the city as Hermann, Rice, and others had done. It was to make money which they invested back into their original cities. This is even evident by some of Houston's own developers who replaced downtown residences, churches, and meeting places with landmark skyscrappers named after companies( some who are headquartered here and some not). The truth is that these skyscrappers are what killed downtown which in the 50's was truly the heart of the city, the refineries polluted our waters, and the automobile rendered our city as it is.

The question is:

Has Houston reached the phase where more people care about 'beautifying' the city and are willing to resist development that might make money but does not contribute toward the well being of the city.

So far the answer is No but I think we are in the right direction.

[MidtownCoog]

Maybe we are just a bunch of trashy people?

[kjb434]

^^^

LOL

I think one of the things that really defines Houston is how well it's doing without zonning. I feel it's a badge of honor.

Of course we have some bad spots. But zonning wouldn't have fixed that. As a city we have a lot to offer people who move here. I think that we are the fourth largest and have not gone through comprehensive planning like Chicago and Los Angeles did in there early days shows something. The city, eventhough developer driven, has had the best and brightest guide much of it. We have many projects that are concentrating on beautifying, improving quality of life, and solving issues at the same time. Within the next few years you'll be seeing many more projects beginning.

We have groups that are dedicated just for these goals of quality of life in Houston. We have a current city government and planning commision that is now listening to these groups and wanting to work with them. Instead of different parties being pitted against each other, we have them working together.

Most of these groups are open to anyone who wants to join. I you notice the communities that are more active in the visioning process, they are receiving the most benefits. Just look at the roundabout (traffic circle) on washington. This was purely a community effort. The city listened and realized that this project was cheaper, and created much more benefit to the neighborhood. The city saved well over $200,000 on that job for traffic signalization alone because it was a complex intersection.

A community that is proactive and REASONABLE give great comprimses.

[shasta]

^^^

LOL

I think one of the things that really defines Houston is how well it's doing without zonning.  I feel it's a badge of honor.

  I think that we are the  fourth largest and have not gone through comprehensive planning like Chicago and Los Angeles did in there early days shows something.  intersection.

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Some type of zoning would have helped preserve some areas character such as the residential area of Montrose. What could have developed around it would a have been fair game but preserving what was there should have been a priority.

Also don't rest your hat on the "we're the 4th largest city". This is because the city encompasses so many square miles. St. Louis, Philadephia, Boston, Baltimore, and others probably have more people per square mile than Houston.

Oh, and we did have a city plan in the early days it was drawn up by Borden.

[kjb434]

Exactly,

Zoning doesn't do anything you said. Also what you are probably looking for is a historic district.

We would still have the same city with zoning.

[shasta]

Exactly,

Zoning doesn't do anything you said.  Also what you are probably looking for is a historic district.

We would still have the same city with zoning.

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Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Please educate me???

[MidtownCoog]

Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Everything you just described makes "Montrose" "Monstrose".

[Heights2Bastrop]

Take a look at what is happening in the Heights between Durham and White Oak Bayou, south of 19th and north of 15th. The construction of new housing is actually replacing the many businesses scattered throughout that area. It

[kjb434]

Exactly. Happens all the time in zoned communities. Happens in Dallas, Denver, Silicon valley area, Florida. The only area it doesn't happen in the Northeast area were historic commisions control things more than zoning.

Besides, I like the haphazard pattern of Houston. It feels more organic and real versus some contrived force development pattern.

[MidtownCoog]

Yes, take a drive through far north Dallas and Plano to see how boring zoning can be.

For example, I prefer having Soundwaves, China's consulate, homes and townhomes, #s, etc. all withing walking distance of each other.

In Plano, you have to drive 5 miles just to get to a quickie mart.

[Gary]

Yes, take a drive through far north Dallas and Plano to see how boring zoning can be.

For example, I prefer having Soundwaves, China's consulate, homes and townhomes, #s, etc. all withing walking distance of each other.

In Plano, you have to drive 5 miles just to get to a quickie mart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that's a good point. I visit a friend from time to time in Louisville and we have to drive 20 minutes just to get beer (dry county), let alone getting a bag of chips at the local store.

I've always said that since moving here I've never been to a more conveniant city than Houston.

[RedScare]

Count me in, as well. My next door neighbor occupies a 4000 square foot metal warehouse that used to be a glass company. He converted it into his home and art studio. I realize there are those who would cringe at the thought of a warehouse for a neighbor, but I find that eclectic, decidedly unplanned look refreshing.

I believe I have made the complete conversion from zoner to free form advocate. It took my wonderful neighbor and his warehouse to finish it.

[Houston19514]

Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop  right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Please educate me???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you give me a specific example, or two or three, where houses were torn down, replaced with a gas station and pawn shop, right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

I'm not saying it has never happened, but I personally can't think of any. (But I am handicapped by not living in Houston).

It would seem rather odd for any businessman to think that the middle of a residential area would be a good place to operate a gas station, or a pawn shop for that matter.

If by "in the middle of a residential area" you really meant "on an arterial street at the edge of a residential area", well, yes, that is allowed in zoned cities, and happens quite regularly.

[kjb434]

I'm glad to see some people on the none zoning side.

Yes, sometimes not having the controls of zoning can be a headache, but it can also be very advantageous.

The key to making no zoning work is to have an active community that is involved with the planning commission meetings to ensure that there needs are met by the new development within reason.

The example about Montrose and the Heights is cool.

Also, RedScare, I would love to have a warehouse for a home. I always thought if I had the money one day to either build a brand new place look like a warehouse or to find an old one.

[RedScare]

Funny that Plano was mentioned in this thread. My sister lives in Plano. She came in to visit for the 4th and wanted to see my house. She loved the warehouse, and wants to bring her artist son down to take a tour. Kind of a ringing endorsement by a resident of a zoned community. She was even slightly annoyed at the $500k homes across the street.

[Heights2Bastrop]

As a property owner, why shouldn

[N Judah]

Contracts are never *truly* binding. You could get out of it if you tried hard enough.

[texasboy]

People. Houston has many mistakes, and I see some people here do not want to admit it, but we make excuses that no zoning is what makes our neighborhoods "cool". Sorry but most of the no zoning happening in Houston has made our neighborhoods so disproportionate. Ever wonder how you can have a dense walkable development in Midtown and then across the street there is a suburban CVS? Sorry but there is nothing unique about that and it is just a sign of bad urban planning. Houston will find out soon enough that no zoning laws will eventually kill the development of this city. As urban living becomes more trendy, it will be hard to find neighborhoods that appeal to urban developers in this city because of how it has developed. Hopefully downtown will have the same attitude that gives atleast one neighborhood in this city hope.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Houston will find out soon enough that no zoning laws will eventually kill the development of this city.

You're kidding, right?

No zoning laws have been the rule here from day 1, and Houston is the fourth largest city in the country. Houston has too much going for it to let something as trivial as no zoning to kill development here.

[texasboy]

You're kidding, right?

No zoning laws have been the rule here from day 1, and Houston is the fourth largest city in the country. Houston has too much going for it to let something as trivial as no zoning to kill development here.

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Ok, don't know what the fourth largest city thing came from, plus its meaningless since the city is close to 600 square miles, but anyway I know Houston is developer driven. I am saying that no zoning laws will probably or already have created environments in this city that will not appeal to urban developers looking for urban environments to build in. If you want to admit it or not, no zoning laws have killed the uniformity of this city.

As for the no zoning since day one, Houston is a city that was incorporated in 1837. The city's urban infrastructure was developing just fine before the 1930's, better than it is today, and a master plan was produced for the city in 1929 which included zoning laws. The last time the city voted no for zoning laws was in 1993, not to mention this has happened two times beofre. In 1948 and 1962.

[VelvetJ]

I just finished reading the latest posts on the apparant fate of the Shamrock and it got me to thinking. Where are the business people with great vision in this town? Why aren't those like Jim Macinvale investing in huge projects? Why do they seem to invest only enough to get by?

The little I do know about Houstons history shows extreme vision on the part of men like Hoffeinz etc. These were men that loved this city and wanted to see it leep over other cities with one fell swoop.

Houston has so much potential and I just can't understand why no local has taken the reigns to push it to the next level.

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Gary, I have actually brought this very subject up in a couple of threads recently. I have been saying for a while now that Houston seems to have lost it's edge somehow, with regard to blazing the trails. That "thing" that built the ship channel, The Astrodome, Williams Tower, Pennzoil Place, Nasa, our Futuristic skyline and cutting edge architecture, The GRB Convention Center Design, and our Galleria seems to be lost. I've said before and I say again, in the company of our counterparts that are Dallas and Atlanta, we always seem to be a step behind (it always bugs me to hear our leaders talk about how far ahead we are of Nashville and Cleveland, and Orlando, and Tampa, and Austin. Those cities are not in our league, so STOP IT!!! ).

We are moving but it seem to be "after the fact". Yeah we built new stadiums but Dallas had their baseball and basketball arenas first. And while MM Park is not bad when next to The Texas Rangers stadium built in the 90's, Toyota Center is a joke compared to American Airlines Arena. Plus, while Reliant Stadium is nice, the design is bland. I'm just waiting for the release of Jerry Jones' design for the Cowboys stadium but I'm willing to bet it's going to be something spectacular, on top of it having a retractable roof.

The Hot thing in buildings now is mixed use. Houston is light years behind Atlanta and Dallas in that department. The same can be said for Rail. Seriously, why is this the case?

The Hobby Center, The Mercer, The MFA addition, The New Hilton Downtown, the Reserve Bank on Allen Parkway, The Montebello and it's twin (though those aren't too bad), and a few others I don't know the names of, are all architecturally just blah, IMO. Of course there are exceptions like Enron II and the new design for the proposed highrise on Upper Kirby, but overall Houston's architectural designs as of the past few years have left MUCH to be desired. Even now, the tallest building going up in Houston right now, is a giant bland box in the Medical Center.

I understand the economic times but this started happening in Houston even before September 11. Plus I look at the designs going up in other cities, particularly in Atlanta, and I wonder what is going on there that people seem to have SO much money where they can design those FANTASTIC buildings going up, including the one in Buckhead labeled "Art in the Sky".

We used to set the bar. It took visionaries to do that who saw Houston as a place they loved instead of ONLY a place to make money.

[VelvetJ]

This may be slightly off topic but there was a post on another site about how to take Dallas to the next tier level. This particular guy's response was basically the way I see Houston and how we can improve ourselves. Of course everything doesn't apply to Houston but I think you will get the idea.

This was from a poster by the name of jeffharrington on a site about Dallas Urban life:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rantanamo: Good for you for encouraging us to move beyond uttering opinions and onto creating solutions.

I think the first thing we have to do is identify a group of about 50 people in Dallas who represent a mix of ages, ethnicities, religions and professions AND who have traveled extensively around the world and have a passion for making the city world-class.

You get them in the same room and get them to come to a consensus as to which three cities in the world they consider from their personal experience to be the cities they'd most like Dallas to become. They then must identify the specific characteristics that make those cities world-class in their estimation.

If one characteristic is "great mass transit", you then ask who in the room has a passion for transportation and you put them in charge of studying what will be the best mass transit system in the world come 2015. Same for educational system, creative environment and business-friendly atmosphere, or whatever.

They come back in six months to one year and then the city implements them--no questions asked.

If the city had a strong leader who roused much respect and admiration from people city-wide, some of that might happen here. But much of that won't happen here because:

A) not enough people here know what is world-class because they don't travel the world widely.

too many people here want Dallas to have a "family-friendly, nice small town atmosphere" like Waxahachie or Mexia where they grew up, rather than an exciting, thought-provoking, sense-intoxicating city like San Francisco, New York or London--which they fear.

C) People here get put on committees and task forces because of how much money they have NOT because they have a passion for the topic.

D) Too many leaders here have egos that cause them to control or micromanage the outcome rather than let the person in charge of that subsection run with it.

Don't mean to be negative but I have lived in Dallas for 40 years, have been fortunate to travel throughout the world during that time and have watched cities like Seattle, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Austin and now Fort Worth zoom past Dallas because those in charge lacked a global perspective, preferred to copy the best rather than be original (note the NoBu and W Hotel getting all the buzz here, even though they are copies of things now old hat in other cities) and focused on doing things cheap and therefore not impressive to others (Prestonwood, Farmers Market) rather than investing the money to do them right and to international standards of excellence and therefore sustainable (NorthPark).

As long as let it run down, bulldoze it then build it bigger, cheaper and with several more gables to impress everyone is the prevailing mentality here over take care of it, keep it in great shape and hand it over to someone who will appreciate it for another generation, it'll be hard for us to be taken seriously by the Parises, Londons, New Yorks or Romes of the world.

[texasboy]

I agree Velvetj, but I think some people's ego will get the best of your post.

[MidtownCoog]

A) not enough people here know what is world-class because they don't travel the world widely.

That's just silly.

It's not the 14th century.

You can travel the world without even leaving your house.

[Gary]

Gary, I have actually brought this very subject up in a couple of threads recently. I have been saying for a while now that Houston seems to have lost it's edge somehow, with regard to blazing the trails. That "thing" that built the ship channel, The Astrodome, Williams Tower, Pennzoil Place, Nasa, our Futuristic skyline and cutting edge architecture, The GRB Convention Center Design, and our Galleria seems to be lost. I've said before and I say again, in the company of our counterparts that are Dallas and Atlanta, we always seem to be a step behind (it always bugs me to hear our leaders talk about how far ahead we are of Nashville and Cleveland, and Orlando, and Tampa, and Austin. Those cities are not in our league, so STOP IT!!! ).

We are moving but it seem to be "after the fact". Yeah we built new stadiums but Dallas had their baseball and basketball arenas first. And while MM Park is not bad when next to The Texas Rangers stadium built in the 90's, Toyota Center is a joke compared to American Airlines Arena. Plus, while Reliant Stadium is nice, the design is bland. I'm just waiting for the release of Jerry Jones' design for the Cowboys stadium but I'm willing to bet it's going to be something spectacular, on top of it having a retractable roof.

The Hot thing in buildings now is mixed use. Houston is light years behind Atlanta and Dallas in that department. The same can be said for Rail. Seriously, why is this the case?

The Hobby Center, The Mercer, The MFA addition, The New Hilton Downtown, the Reserve Bank on Allen Parkway, The Montebello and it's twin (though those aren't too bad), and a few others I don't know the names of, are all architecturally just blah, IMO. Of course there are exceptions like Enron II and the new design for the proposed highrise on Upper Kirby, but overall Houston's architectural designs as of the past few years have left MUCH to be desired. Even now, the tallest building going up in Houston right now, is a giant bland box in the Medical Center.

I understand the economic times but this started happening in Houston even before September 11. Plus I look at the designs going up in other cities, particularly in Atlanta, and I wonder what is going on there that people seem to have SO much money where they can design those FANTASTIC buildings going up, including the one in Buckhead labeled "Art in the Sky".

We used to set the bar. It took visionaries to do that who saw Houston as a place they loved instead of ONLY a place to make money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to copy the entire post above but this was my thinking when I started the thread, Velvetj just elaborated better than I did.

Maybe I'm wrong but I agree that Houston doesn't seem to be setting the bar high enough anymore. The architecture that I used to be in awe of is no longer being constructed and cities like Atlanta are putting up great buildings. In fact I visited ATL last year and was very impressed with the architecture. There new developments blew ours out of the water.

I hate to reiterate but it seems that the city doesn't care about what goes up, where it goes up, or even if it does go up.

[MidtownCoog]

Yes, but there is two ways to look at architecture.

From the inside, and from the outside.

It's kinda like juding a book by its cover. Just becuase its pretty on the outside, does not mean its functional on the inside.

Do we want eye-candy, or buildings that work?

[Gary]

That's a good point but why can't we have both?

[Houston19514]

Can you give me a specific example, or two or three, where houses were torn down, replaced with a gas station and pawn shop, right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

I'm not saying it has never happened, but I personally can't think of any.  (But I am handicapped by not living in Houston). 

It would seem rather odd for any businessman to think that the middle of a residential area would be a good place to operate a gas station, or a pawn shop for that matter. 

If by "in the middle of a residential area" you really meant "on an arterial street at the edge of a residential area", well, yes, that is allowed in zoned cities, and happens quite regularly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would it be fair to presume that, since nobody (including Shasta) has posted even ONE example, perhaps this is more urban myth than fact? I wish we could put these myths about the effects of no-zoning to rest.

Another one that deserves a decent burial is the myth that Houston has high-rise office towers rising next door to single-family residences. I have previously asked for examples of this phenomenon (which is oft-repeated in the Houston media AND on GlassSteelandSone.com).