Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[JJxvi]

There is no "taking $6 mil"

 

They did not get $6 mil and then pocket it by not spending it.  Ainbinder must spend its own money on the front end on things the city agrees to pay for to get reimbursed.

 

This is also a $40 million development, the city is going to be getting roughly $250k-$300k per year in property taxes alone, and probably something like $2 million or more per year in city sales taxes from all businesses in the center (vast majority coming from WalMart sales.  Then you have all the anciliary benefits of job creation, etc. The city will make its money back easily very quickly, having spent $6 million on things that needed to be done.

[JJxvi]

As for the rest of the "it would have been built anyway" I pretty much agree.  But unfortunately there was a very vocal minority of folks in the area that thought it would be a good idea to frame their anti-WalMart message into an argument over aesthetics, infrastructure inadequacies, traffic pattern problems, that made getting this money from the city the politically expedient way to get a high dollar development the city wanted built to get done.

[RedScare]

wow. i hadn't heard that.

[Leonard]

Yes, I understand that it's a loan.  Just like if you go out and spend $500 on a pair of shoes and charge it to your visa, visa pays for the shoes and you reimburse them, plus interest.  You must buy the shoes before you have to reimburse visa.  If you don't buy the shoes, you don't have to reimburse visa.  However, the 380 reimburses for stuff that Walmart would have been required to do, like landscaping, sidewalks, turn lanes and connecting to water and sewer. 

 

The City projects between $753,419 and $853,154 in ad valorem, personal property and sales taxes for 2013. 

[Leonard]

J008, my understanding on Kroger's street was that they would just build/fix up the stub.  The 380 didn't allow for the entire street to be built, just to be ready.  Ridiculous. 

[samagon]

Neither store is going anywhere, but one store reached into your pockets for 6 mil to build a store that no one wanted.  And after taking 6 mil, they didn't bother to finish the sidewalks and crosswalks. 

 

I wanted it. I shop at it.

 

Yes, unfinished sidewalks and crosswalks, over 250 caliper inches of public trees mitigated to Walmart's parking lot (and it still looks barren).  Curbs already broken and in the ADA ROW. 

 

The sidewalks as they go from Orr to Ainbinder are ridiculous.  Why are we paying for a 6' sidewalk that turns into a 5' sidewalk in the middle of the block?  Why are we paying for a 6' sidewalk on one side of Yale and a 5' sidewalk on the other when an ooopsie by the City means there isn't enough room on the Orr side to plant proper street trees? 

 

They would have built the Walmart without the 380. What exactly did we get for that $6M?

 

And they did spend all the money.  $146K on the Yale Street Bridge (a 3,000 lb per axle weight limit and scheduled to be torn down).  Over $50K on "miscellaneous" project management.  Hopefully the City will require them to break it down a little more specifically than that, but don't count on it. 

 

I never went to college, so my maths might be off, but 146,000 + 50,000 = 196,000.

 

That isn't 6,000,000.

 

Can you please educate me how 146,000 + 50,000 = 6,000,000?

[Leonard]

It's not the whole list, just a couple of points I wanted to make.  If you want the whole list, ask Mayor Parker.  She'll gladly send it to you. 

[RedScare]

Wow, this is shocking news! Why are we just now hearing about this! We should have started a facebook page about this...or something!

By the way, that Kroger is STILL the best Kroger in the area. Much hotter chicks than the one on 11th.

[Leonard]

I agree it's shocking.  The Walmart, Kroger and HEB 380's should all be investigated.  Something isn't right here. 

[RedScare]

Maybe a lawsuit should have been filed over this.

[west20th]

Wow, this is shocking news! Why are we just now hearing about this! We should have started a facebook page about this...or something!

By the way, that Kroger is STILL the best Kroger in the area. Much hotter chicks than the one on 11th.

 

Yeah but it doesn't have a cool name yet like the "Disco" Kroger. My favorite name is the "Cougar" Kroger for the W.Gray store.

[RedScare]

Actually, it is called Party Kroger, in deference to the party stores, but it has not caught on that well yet. 

[kylejack]

That Kroger is awful and I think the product lineup was selected by some number cruncher in Cincinnati. Seems like they only considered demographics for immediate area rather than things like, for example, that the Kroger on 20th Street is dry. The Studemont Kroger should have good beer selection, but doesn't.

Edited May 15, 2013 by kylejack

[RedScare]

Well, they must have considered a little bit of the demographic, since I live nearby and it is my favorite Kroger.

[kylejack]

Other than the expensive Midtown Randall's and the niche Phoenicia, Studemont Kroger is my closest grocery store. I'll go if I'm nearby, but otherwise I like the HEB Montrose.

[s3mh]

As for the rest of the "it would have been built anyway" I pretty much agree.  But unfortunately there was a very vocal minority of folks in the area that thought it would be a good idea to frame their anti-WalMart message into an argument over aesthetics, infrastructure inadequacies, traffic pattern problems, that made getting this money from the city the politically expedient way to get a high dollar development the city wanted built to get done.

 

This was a low dollar development.  In fact, I cannot think of a lesser use of the land than what they did with it.  The Ainbinder development eliminated housing (the new apartments next to the railroad tracks will be a net gain of about 100 units over some 30 acres between Orr, Ainbinder and the SJ Stone/Yale St. Market development).  There is more sq ft dedicated to parking than to retail sq ft.  It is the lowest tax generating use of the property that could be imagined. 

 

The justification for giving tax dollars to aid the richest retailer in the world was that the City would be able to deliver a better project and that the area really needed a retailer like Walmart.  As the unsolicited comment verifies, the area did not need Walmart.  And the public infrastructure improvements ended up full of short cuts and half-assed designs, while ingoring the one major improvement (yale st bridge). 

[Leonard]

They were supposed to start putting the carbon strips on the Yale Street Bridge.  Anyone know if they've started yet?

[west20th]

That Kroger is awful and I think the product lineup was selected by some number cruncher in Cincinnati. Seems like they only considered demographics for immediate area rather than things like, for example, that the Kroger on 20th Street is dry. The Studemont Kroger should have good beer selection, but doesn't.

 

Ah, the Kroger on 20th. The "Zombie" Kroger. A place you can go and actually witness a check being written for groceries. All kidding aside, I hope this one survives. It will be a sad day for the old(er) folks that go there if it closes.

[Jesse]

Ah, the Kroger on 20th. The "Zombie" Kroger. A place you can go and actually witness a check being written for groceries. All kidding aside, I hope this one survives. It will be a sad day for the old(er) folks that go there if it closes.

 

They just finished a number of upgrades, so I'm guessing it's sticking around for a while.  They actually improved the produce section quite a bit, reorganized the store, changed the front entrance, and slapped a fresh coat of paint on it.  It's not my primary store although it's the closest one to me, but it is definitely improved. 

[Leonard]

Here's Peter Brown's, aka Pedestrian Pete, take on the Walmart:

 

http://pedestrianpete.com/2013/05/20/development-in-the-heights-full-video/

 

"absolute squandering of public monies!"  exactly right, Pedestrian Pete. 

 

 

[RedScare]

If one must use Peter Brown in support of an argument, the argument has failed.

[Leonard]

It saves a lot of time having an opinion of the video without watching it. 

[RedScare]

Some of us have lived here a long time, and are well aware of Peter Brown's opinions. I needn't watch his video to know what he is saying...and why you like it.

 

There is a reason he was thoroughly beaten in the mayor's race.

[s3mh]

If one must use Peter Brown in support of an argument, the argument has failed.

 

If one can only make an ad hominen attack in response to a good argument . . .

[SilverJK]

*insert s3mh - Leonard high fiving each other*

 

smh.

 

Walmart and Ainbinder are not synonymous... but nobody seems to care about that.

[RedScare]

*insert s3mh - Leonard high fiving each other*

 

smh.

 

Walmart and Ainbinder are not synonymous... but nobody seems to care about that.

 

Because the real enemy is Walmart, not Ainbinder. In order to attack Walmart, they must ignore what really happened. Not that it matters. The battle is over, Walmart is built and open, and most Heights residents shop there...whether they admit it or not. Same goes for Kroger. In fact, most of us like the improvements.

 

Next faux outrage, please.

[Leonard]

The real enemy is the administration that gave $6M to benefit Walmart. 

[RedScare]

I am glad they did it. That couple of blocks looks a lot better, and is now tax income producing property. And, I shop at the Walmart from time to time. I think it is a winner, regardless what Peter Brown thinks.

[Leonard]

They said they would have built it with or without spending $6M of taxpayer's money. 

 

We did not get anything of value for the money. 

[RedScare]

You've said this over and over. I have repeated that I like the development, as well as the expenditure by the City improving the infrastructure. Saying it again will not change my mind, nor any of the others who have expressed approval of the development. Only the few dozen residents who griped at the beginning still care. The rest of us approve.

 

No, really, we approve of the Walmart, the development, and the rebuilt infrastructure paid by the 360. Really. I'm not kidding!