Houston In The 1920s

[RedScare]

Oh no, those things are awful. My late grandfather owned a pier and beam house with the wooden posts sunken into the ground, and the house was ever so tilted. I don't think it had centralized AC, and despite being "remodeled" in the 1970s (read: enclosed patio, dark brown everything, green shag carpeting) it also had woefully outdated power plugs and questionable water pipe status. I would guess it never had plaster, since it was a farm house long ago.

Not sure what you are basing your opinion on. Pier and beam foundations are the best foundations to use in Houston's clay soil. They are simple to level by adding shims to the settled piers. By building above the ground, flooding is reduced, as is access by bugs. The only drawback to pier and beam construction is that they are more expensive than slabs, which is why most new construction is slab on grade, not because slabs are better.

1920s bungalows are a snap to renovate. Because of the pier and beam (or block and beam) construction, it is relatively easy to replace the wiring and the plumbing. And, after 82 years, it is not outrageous to think that the electrical and plumbing might need updating. It is also not that tough to install central AC. As for shag carpet, since there are beautiful wood floors underneath, most homeowners would enjoy ripping out the carpets. I tore mine out myself. It was an enjoyable experience.

Let's talk sturdiness, shall we? During the hurricane, my house did not so much as shake in Ike's 80 mph winds. Not a scratch on it. And, it might interest you to know that the City of Houston's wind load codes require nailing OSB or plywood to the studs to achieve sufficient rigidity to withstand high winds. My bungalow has shiplap (12 inch wide planks, 3/4 inch thick) nailed to every wall, including interior walls, plus all the way across the ceilings, creating a box sturdy enough to withstand the wind. And, the studs are bigger and stronger. New construction uses soft yellow pine. Mine is Douglas fir. And new studs are 1.5"x3.5" versus older 2x4s. The cross section of an old stud is 8 square inches versus 5.25 square inches today...52% thicker! Compared to the construction I looked at in south Montgomery County when I considered buying there, it is no contest.

Your complaints sound much more cosmetic than structural. Owning an old house is not for the instant gratification crowd. But, they are solid, and with a well thought out renovation, can have all of the modern conveniences. And, because it is smaller, it is cheaper to cool it...not to mention the better ventilation when the power goes out for 2 weeks.

[crunchtastic]

Speaking of old bungalows, this was our latest find: replacing the light fixture in the utility room, discoverd the original beadboard ceiling under the sheetrock and nasty popcorn. What I wouldn't give to cover the popcorn in my front room with some of that stuff! Hate, hate hate the popcorn. But not feeling incline to deal with it, since a previous owner raised the ceiling in the front room. I must be the only bungalow with a vaulted living room.

Amazingly, my old shiplap box didn't creak or rattle once during Ike.

[IronTiger]

Not sure what you are basing your opinion on. Pier and beam foundations are the best foundations to use in Houston's clay soil. They are simple to level by adding shims to the settled piers. By building above the ground, flooding is reduced, as is access by bugs. The only drawback to pier and beam construction is that they are more expensive than slabs, which is why most new construction is slab on grade, not because slabs are better.

1920s bungalows are a snap to renovate. Because of the pier and beam (or block and beam) construction, it is relatively easy to replace the wiring and the plumbing. And, after 82 years, it is not outrageous to think that the electrical and plumbing might need updating. It is also not that tough to install central AC. As for shag carpet, since there are beautiful wood floors underneath, most homeowners would enjoy ripping out the carpets. I tore mine out myself. It was an enjoyable experience.

Let's talk sturdiness, shall we? During the hurricane, my house did not so much as shake in Ike's 80 mph winds. Not a scratch on it. And, it might interest you to know that the City of Houston's wind load codes require nailing OSB or plywood to the studs to achieve sufficient rigidity to withstand high winds. My bungalow has shiplap (12 inch wide planks, 3/4 inch thick) nailed to every wall, including interior walls, plus all the way across the ceilings, creating a box sturdy enough to withstand the wind. And, the studs are bigger and stronger. New construction uses soft yellow pine. Mine is Douglas fir. And new studs are 1.5"x3.5" versus older 2x4s. The cross section of an old stud is 8 square inches versus 5.25 square inches today...52% thicker! Compared to the construction I looked at in south Montgomery County when I considered buying there, it is no contest.

Your complaints sound much more cosmetic than structural. Owning an old house is not for the instant gratification crowd. But, they are solid, and with a well thought out renovation, can have all of the modern conveniences. And, because it is smaller, it is cheaper to cool it...not to mention the better ventilation when the power goes out for 2 weeks.

First of all, I probably should've mentioned its in a disintegrating (may be improving, based on renovations to locales) subdivision in Waco, not a stately old Houston neighborhood. The house was two stories but I'm not sure about the wall strength and the fact if the "pier and beams" did not extend into the actual house itself. It was sunken concrete beams with a two-feet tall crawl space and a normal house built on top of it. The hardwood floors are damaged in some parts (a three-inch sinking in a bedroom caused by continuous leaks) and thanks to a honeybee infestation in the 1960s, possibly some honey in the parts where the sun doesn't shine. And did I mention the tilt? The enclosed porches are made of cheap metal siding and the garage leaks. There's a small creek in the backyard with a questionable-quality boardwalk.

When we visited, my grandfather was a widowed man who was in his late 70s or early 1980s (depending what year we're talking about). The house wasn't well-maintained. It was my grandfather on my father's side that was the master remodeling man (he had several blue-collar, skilled-work jobs throughout his life). However, he lived in Florida and only saw my other grandfather twice.

My grandfather that owned the house did sell the house in 2002 and moved to a newer, much smaller home in Hewitt. There, thanks to his refusal to give up the musty furniture, his small black dog, and his general habits ended up trashing the other house, too.

Anyway, the new owners improved the outside: hacked down a ugly/pleasant shrub (depends how you look at it) near the end of the driveway, hacked back trees to reveal a more complete birdbath, and replaced the shutters.

Inside renovations are unknown, nor the fate of the abandoned boat house and other outbuildings. Maybe if I owned it, and had some skill, not an obligation to high school, and a lot of money, I could've turned it from the rather non-descript brick building to an entirely new building...something kind of fancy, I guess.

We can always dream, though...

[Dan the Man]

Speaking of old bungalows, this was our latest find: replacing the light fixture in the utility room, discoverd the original beadboard ceiling under the sheetrock and nasty popcorn. What I wouldn't give to cover the popcorn in my front room with some of that stuff! Hate, hate hate the popcorn. But not feeling incline to deal with it, since a previous owner raised the ceiling in the front room. I must be the only bungalow with a vaulted living room.

Amazingly, my old shiplap box didn't creak or rattle once during Ike.

Leave the popcorn for now. Wait until you have a really bad day at work, and you're mad at the world, then come home and go to town on it! Just wear a mask, that stuff might have asbestos in it, depending on its age.

[dbigtex56]

Yes, plaster was only in higher quality homes, due to the labor costs for installation. However, I would argue that the shiplap/wallpaper assembly was actually better, since it allowed for foundation movement without cracks in the walls.

I'm unclear on what sort of wallpaper is being referred to. Is it just regular wallpaper, or part of the structure upon which another layer is added?

Some bungalows have a gauze-like fabric on top of the shiplap, over which plaster or wallpaper is applied. Is this what's meant by wallpaper?

[Dan the Man]

I'm unclear on what sort of wallpaper is being referred to. Is it just regular wallpaper, or part of the structure upon which another layer is added?

Some bungalows have a gauze-like fabric on top of the shiplap, over which plaster or wallpaper is applied. Is this what's meant by wallpaper?

From the inside, the average bungalow interior wall assembly consists of decorative wallpaper over "cheese cloth" over shiplap over studs. Sheetrock was usually nailed over the wallpaper by the 1950s. The few plaster examples I have seen in Houston do not have shiplap on the interior side, rather the plaster was applied to a wire mesh or lath strips nailed to the studs.

[dbigtex56]

From the inside, the average bungalow interior wall assembly consists of decorative wallpaper over "cheese cloth" over shiplap over studs. Sheetrock was usually nailed over the wallpaper by the 1950s. The few plaster examples I have seen in Houston do not have shiplap on the interior side, rather the plaster was applied to a wire mesh or lath strips nailed to the studs.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Vertigo58]

Old House Journal always has great bungalow stories, coincidentally the one in this specific story was also built in 1926 as original poster described.

http://www.oldhousejournal.com/ask_ohj/magazine/1448

and we can't forget This Old House featurettes on bungalows.

Make great reference guides if you subscribe of course.

PS, Even Old House Interiors Mag is a must have!

http://www.oldhouseinteriors.com/

[sidegate]

I'd like to know what the basic engineering logistics are associated with an attic conversion in a 1929 bungalow - ideally I'd like to convert it to a master suite and and an office. Will the ceiling need to be reinforced (the ceiling joists are 2x6)? Will any kind of foundation work be necessary? The attic currently contains the furnace/fan and ducts for central air - what are the logistics in terms of relocating this? Finally, what kind of base cost I can expect - is $50K a realistic budget?

[flipper]

I'd like to know what the basic engineering logistics are associated with an attic conversion in a 1929 bungalow - ideally I'd like to convert it to a master suite and and an office. Will the ceiling need to be reinforced (the ceiling joists are 2x6)? Will any kind of foundation work be necessary? The attic currently contains the furnace/fan and ducts for central air - what are the logistics in terms of relocating this? Finally, what kind of base cost I can expect - is $50K a realistic budget?

Before you go too far... what is the pitch of your roof and how big is your house front to back?

flipper

[BryanS]

2x6's are not going to cut it... at all... 50K... sounds like you'd have plenty of budget...

But how much space is up there? As flipper asks, roof pitch? It may seem like an attractive option, but if you're always "ducking" to walk around... that's no fun...

[sidegate]

Before you go too far... what is the pitch of your roof and how big is your house front to back?

flipper

About 50 feet front to back. Pitch I am unsure of to be honest - it's certainly not steep like some other homes of the period are - about average for a 1920s bungalow. Yes space is a problem with the attic as is, and while from an aesthetic POV I'd like to avoid building the roof out or adding dormers, it will need to be done if we're to make the conversion worthwhile.

Converting the attic is the only solution we have if we want to stay in the neighborhood (Montrose). We're priced out of upgrading to a bigger house in the neighborhood - starter castles are the only new building activity in the area, generally starting at 600K even in this market. Forget it.

[RedScare]

About 50 feet front to back. Pitch I am unsure of to be honest - it's certainly not steep like some other homes of the period are - about average for a 1920s bungalow. Yes space is a problem with the attic as is, and while from an aesthetic POV I'd like to avoid building the roof out or adding dormers, it will need to be done if we're to make the conversion worthwhile.

Converting the attic is the only solution we have if we want to stay in the neighborhood (Montrose). We're priced out of upgrading to a bigger house in the neighborhood - starter castles are the only new building activity in the area, generally starting at 600K even in this market. Forget it.

You have no back yard? Your house sounds like mine. If it is, you will not be satisfied with an attic conversion, and upgrading the joists and probably your roof joists will make it more expensive than it is worth. It would be cheaper to add to the back of the house, and the space would be more useful.

[sidegate]

You have no back yard? Your house sounds like mine. If it is, you will not be satisfied with an attic conversion, and upgrading the joists and probably your roof joists will make it more expensive than it is worth. It would be cheaper to add to the back of the house, and the space would be more useful.

No, the back yard is taken up by a 1970s add on that was by all appearances rather hastily put together. I really want a back yard out of this deal too, so the idea would be to take the add-on off. It would be no great loss to the house.

A friend suggesting adding a porte cochiere to the side of the house over the driveway. Pros are that I would have to deal a little less with existing structures. Drawbacks are aesthetics. Has anyone ever seen or been involved with something similar?

Option 3 is a full second storey, but I understand the budget for that is into six figures....

[innerlooper]

If its a regular 20's bungalow with moderate roof slope (up to 8 in 12) then you probably don't have enough headroom to do a proper job. Take a tape measure up there, and account for having to sister the floor joists up to 2x8 or 2x10, plus subfloor, and see if you have any room left. Minimum kneewall should be 4' and you will need a staircase which will wipe out half the dining room or LR. These kinds of hippie conversions were popular in the 60s and 70s and many folks ended up with firetraps as the egress windows were too small. Also if rafters are 2x4 then the kneewalls will be structural and the floor joist will definitely have to be strong.

Another problem with this kind of attic conversion is the AC situation. Unless you are extremely fastidious with insulation and ventilation, the attic room will always be a little hotbox in summer and you might end up zoning the house.

How about a picture of the house?

Innerlooper

I'd like to know what the basic engineering logistics are associated with an attic conversion in a 1929 bungalow - ideally I'd like to convert it to a master suite and and an office. Will the ceiling need to be reinforced (the ceiling joists are 2x6)? Will any kind of foundation work be necessary? The attic currently contains the furnace/fan and ducts for central air - what are the logistics in terms of relocating this? Finally, what kind of base cost I can expect - is $50K a realistic budget?

[sidegate]

If its a regular 20's bungalow with moderate roof slope (up to 8 in 12) then you probably don't have enough headroom to do a proper job. Take a tape measure up there, and account for having to sister the floor joists up to 2x8 or 2x10, plus subfloor, and see if you have any room left. Minimum kneewall should be 4' and you will need a staircase which will wipe out half the dining room or LR. These kinds of hippie conversions were popular in the 60s and 70s and many folks ended up with firetraps as the egress windows were too small. Also if rafters are 2x4 then the kneewalls will be structural and the floor joist will definitely have to be strong.

Another problem with this kind of attic conversion is the AC situation. Unless you are extremely fastidious with insulation and ventilation, the attic room will always be a little hotbox in summer and you might end up zoning the house.

How about a picture of the house?

Innerlooper

The roof pitch sounds about right. I have a mudroom at the back of the house that I can run the staircase up so as to minimize impact on the rest of the house. One GC I talked to assured me that energy conserving technology for building under the roof has come a long way. I' be sure to spend money on that aspect of it since I'd be sleeping and working there in my office. Point is taken on the firetrap aspect we were thinking of large dormers on the back of the house for this purpose. I'll find a picture.

[Native Montrosian]

sidegate, you might want to pick up a March issue of This Old House - a family in Austin did an attic conversion and there are details about how they had to reinforce the house first that may or may not apply to your situation. If nothing else, it may give you some fun ideas.

Attic Conversion

[sidegate]

sidegate, you might want to pick up a March issue of This Old House - a family in Austin did an attic conversion and there are details about how they had to reinforce the house first that may or may not apply to your situation. If nothing else, it may give you some fun ideas.

Attic Conversion

Thanks NM I'll take a look.

[BabyJaneHudson]

I came across this link from the Houston Chronicle today for photos of Houston in the 20's.

Lots of goodies here, just click here bayoucity and then on the link to the photos.

Esperson Building 1926.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2mhyd61.jpg

[EastEnd Susan]

Wow. Is that the naked Esperson Building? Yes it is! I really enjoyed the photos on that site especially the ones of Galveston. Thanks for posting.

[Native Son]

thanks very much, great link with great pics

[NenaE]

That's a great link, one of my good friends pointed it out to me. There's one photo of Mykawa land development, mentions royalties, another of Bellaire, great Houston, San Antonio, Galveston & other Texas area pics.

[Subdude]

The 1920s were a huge boom period for Houston. You could argue that's when we moved from small town to somewhat important city. Major construction:

Lamar Hotel

Rice Hotel west wing

Esperson Building

Gulf Building

Majestic Theater

Convention Hall

Sterling Building

Medical Arts Tower

Post Dispatch building

Texas State Hotel

M&M building

[SilverJK]

I have a pretty common front door for the heights, it has 3 windows at the top, and a small ledge trim piece below the windows. The door has a hideous brass mail slot on the front that has been sealed up and i find the main part of the door awefully flimsy.

Does anyone know of a good place to find old doors or new doors that would fit in the the bungalow look/feel? I don't want to break the bank on this project, and another option i'm considering is rebuilding the door by knocking the middle box out, building a support beam down the middle with two boxes. I'll try to get a picture to better show what i'm talking about.

thoughts?

Curt

[Dan the Man]

For an old door, try Historic Houston Salvage Warehouse. What width is your old door? 36" bungalow doors are somewhat rare and expensive. If you have one, by all means, try to rebuild it.

[GREASER]

There is Atkins downtown, but for a nice door, go to any of the customer door companies, Conroe door, I think Mongomery customer door....anyway thats what they do. They make doors for other companies to sell. I showed them pics on a mod door costing 2000 or so and they laughed and explained the rediculous markup...so they arent that expensive considering its the first thing people see (unless you have a car broken down in the front yard ) when they come to your house. I have an installer that works on weekends only. PM me when/if you need the info.

[innerlooper]

Popular width back then was 34" which is largely obsolete today for exterior doors. So might have to be custom made. If you do find a reasonable match at a salvage place, measure very carefully. Old door may have been trimmed to match a racking jamb and unless you want to add dutchmen, won't fit properly. Also your jamb may be twisted (jamb legs not plumb to each other) or the replacement door may be twisted, creating more headaches.

Jeld-wen has a nice Bungalow door selection, but pricey:

http://www.jeld-wen.com/exteriordoors/wood/customwood/product.cfm/product_id/134

[SaintCyr]

What size is the opening??? I 2nd the idea of Historic Houston there on Clay St off Waugh. They have a ton of doors but can be a bit pricey. I have an extra 32" wide door with 8 panes and the ledge. From the outside, the hardware is on the left.

[travelguy_73]

We bought our 9-light door from Historic Houston last year, and love it. I think we paid about $350 for the door, and then countless hours refinishing it.

[SilverJK]

i need to measure it again, but if i remember correctly it was 35.75" wide by 83.75" high. So basically a 3ft by 7ft door shaved down a quarter inch both ways. I'll take a pic and remeasure when i go to the house today (i'm still moving in). I'll definitely check out histororic houston, maybe i can buy a door there, refinish it and get it installed, then sell my current door.

Curt