George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)

[Houston19514]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:58 PM, wilcal said:

Well, that is sad, but definitely time. They honestly should have done it before the D/E construction. The train is backed right now between D/E and C because of the parking garage closure and you technically aren't supposed to take carts on the train. What a mess.

I don't think this is true.  Pretty sure the subway train is still operating between Terminal C and Terminals D/E.  

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I don't think this is true.  Pretty sure the subway train is still operating between Terminal C and Terminals D/E.  

There is signage banning carts from the subway trains. They do fit but barely. 

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, wilcal said:

There is signage banning carts from the subway trains. They do fit but barely. 

I wasn't questioning that part.  I think you had suggested the train was not operating between Terminal C and D/E.  The train is operating.  IIRC, luggage carts have never been allowed on the subway trains.  But in 2021, who is still using luggage carts?  ;-)

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

I wasn't questioning that part.  I think you had suggested the train was not operating between Terminal C and D/E.  The train is operating.  IIRC, luggage carts have never been allowed on the subway trains.  But in 2021, who is still using luggage carts?  ;-)

Sorry for being unclear. The problem is that the C garage is full of term C passengers that are going on international trips. They go through FIS/Customs in D/E and have all of their luggage. The airport is then telling them to push their carts with their luggage the 1/4 back to the C since they aren't allowed to use the subway.

Ecopark is also only doing dropoffs at D and nothing at E, so same thing for passengers who are parking off-site. 

[Houston19514]

8 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Sorry for being unclear. The problem is that the C garage is full of term C passengers that are going on international trips. They go through FIS/Customs in D/E and have all of their luggage. The airport is then telling them to push their carts with their luggage the 1/4 back to the C since they aren't allowed to use the subway.

Ecopark is also only doing dropoffs at D and nothing at E, so same thing for passengers who are parking off-site. 

Some times long-term gain requires a little short-term pain...   (And in this case it is truly a little short-term pain... again, in 2021, who is still using airport luggage carts?)

[mattyt36]

57 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

again, in 2021, who is still using airport luggage carts?

🤔 hmmmm, not sure I follow, can people tweet their luggage to their cars now or something?  

59 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Some times long-term gain requires a little short-term pain...  

Is it, though (at least from the perspective of passengers being affected as wilcal cites)?  I admittedly have already failed at understanding the basics of the concept, but the D/E garages are gone forever, no?  There may be better connections from the C-East garage to the new Terminal E, but still a lot of walking.

[Amlaham]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Some times long-term gain requires a little short-term pain...   (And in this case it is truly a little short-term pain... again, in 2021, who is still using airport luggage carts?)

Anyone who takes 2 suitcases with them on an international flight 💀, I just came back from an international flight and me and my friends each had 2 suitcases.... were we supposed to hold them on our backs 😂 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

🤔 hmmmm, not sure I follow, can people tweet their luggage to their cars now or something?  

Is it, though (at least from the perspective of passengers being affected as wilcal cites)?  I admittedly have already failed at understanding the basics of the concept, but the D/E garages are gone forever, no?  There may be better connections from the C-East garage to the new Terminal E, but still a lot of walking.

How about gliding them on their built-in wheels?  Usage of airport luggage carts plummeted 10 years ago (and has no doubt dropped even further since then), because practically all suitcases now have their own wheels.

Yes, the D/E Garage is gone forever, but there will be a direct connection to what is now known as the C Garage (The new Central Processor facility will be where the D/E Garage currently stands, so the current C garage will be adjacent; less than 1/10th mile from the arrivals lobby.)  Plus, when the project is done, passengers arriving at D and E will be able to get ground transportation directly from the D/E Central Processor.

And who knows, maybe the new subway will accommodate those antique airport luggage carts...😉

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

25 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

Anyone who takes 2 suitcases with them on an international flight 💀, I just came back from an international flight and me and my friends each had 2 suitcases.... were we supposed to hold them on our backs 😂 

Hmmmm... I routinely take two suitcases on trips and haven't used an airport luggage cart in more than 10 years (and I've never carried a suitcase on my back.)  

[mattyt36]

1 minute ago, Houston19514 said:

How about gliding them on their built-in wheels?  Usage of airport luggage carts plummeted 10 years ago (and has no doubt dropped even further since then), because practically all suitcases now have their own wheels.

Yes, the D/E Garage is gone forever, but there will be a direct connection to what is now known as the C Garage (The new Central Processor facility will be where the D/E Garage currently stands, so the current C garage will be adjacent.)  Plus, when the project is done, passengers arriving at D and E will be able to get ground transportation directly from the D/E Central Processor.

 

Houston19514, suggest you go to Terminal E international arrivals between 1pm and 5pm . . . I think you'll see that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving from Africa, Latin America, and Asia.  And with way more than 2 bags (and usually multiple boxes!).  Only one can fit in each car of the "Subway," and they clog the elevators as well.  Pre-COVID that arrivals lobby could be jam-packed.

[Houston19514]

6 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

Houston19514, suggest you go to Terminal E international arrivals between 1pm and 5pm . . . I think you'll see that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving from Africa, Latin America, and Asia.  And with way more than 2 bags (and usually multiple boxes!).  Only one can fit in each car of the "Subway," and they clog the elevators as well.  Pre-COVID that arrivals lobby could be jam-packed.

I don't doubt that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving...  That tells us nothing about how many are being used...  But whatever the number is, it's nothing but a temporary inconvenience for some arriving passengers.  (And other than complain about it, what would you propose be done?)  And now you're also complaining about them clogging the elevators too?  You are sounding as if you want to completely ban the luggage carts...  Not really sure what point you are trying to make...

[Houston19514]

United Airlines Early Baggage Building construction.

[mattyt36]

39 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I don't doubt that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving...  That tells us nothing about how many are being used...  But whatever the number is, it's nothing but a temporary inconvenience for some arriving passengers.  (And other than complain about it, what would you propose be done?)  And now you're also complaining about them clogging the elevators too?  You are sounding as if you want to completely ban the luggage carts...  Not really sure what point you are trying to make...

We're kind of all over the place here.  

(1) Wilcal said that the luggage carts were clogging the Subway/ITT because people having to take it from E to C because of the D/E garage closures.

(2) You said that that is not accurate because the Subway/ITT is still open from E to C, entirely missing the point.

(3) Then you said, "Short-term pain/long-term gain" and implying that there is no need for luggage carts anymore because, I guess, you have never used one.

(4) I pointed out that there are plenty of people who still need them, and this situation will be with us in the long term because (as far as I can tell) there will be no replacement E garage.

(5) Someone else said he actually uses them.

(6) You implied (5) was lazy (or maybe not strong enough, or something, I dunno).  Then you stated that luggage cart usage is down because most suitcases have wheels now.  I do not see how this is germane at all to the discussion.  If there were 5 passengers per hour before the garage closed trying to put a cart on the train and there are now 30, it is immaterial if SmartCarte rented 100,000 carts in 1990 and only 5,000 in 2021 . . . the cause of the bottleneck is the 5 becoming 30 overnight.  So entirely missing the point, again.  Or, stated differently, "talking past each other."  I imagine many of the people trying to cram into the ITT are elderly and can't walk with carts to Terminal C.  There are admittedly ways for passengers "in the know" to handle this, but that's not solution for people who often can't seem to follow signs to their gates.

(7) I mentioned the elevators only as an example of how crowded they were at peak times.  In fact, if you haven't noticed, they were so crowded that an additional bank of elevators were added to the E garage after it opened.  They are now gone.

My point remains: I don't see how this will necessarily get any better in the future--even after the terminal expansion is complete--as you are confident it will.  It seems the only real improvement will be the fact that most international passengers do not park in garages during the duration of their trip, so when ecopark shuttles return to the international arrivals, that should help.  Won't help meeters/greeters, though, but maybe the decreased roadway congestion will encourage people to wait and use the cell phone lot as the arrivals curbside traffic at the peak is atrocious.

Unfortunately there's no elegant way to solve this, as the critical planning fault of IAH (dating to the 1960s and not addressed when Terminal C opened in 1980) was to sandwich the terminals between two relatively small roadways and then build concourses and apron immediately adjacent to it, preventing any opportunity for economical expansion. UA's support facilities to the east of Terminal D further limit what you can do.

The roadways are the critical landside chokepoints of the airport, same as the two crossfield taxiways SF and NR are the airside chokepoints.  To address the persistent roadway problem, the most recent master plan considered the development of a terminal for all airlines but UA on the south side of Will Clayton Parkway to remove ~50% of O&D traffic off of Terminal Road.  I'm sure ITRP includes some elements to address the problem, but there's no way to fix the fundamental issue that IAH will be up against until it develops terminal facilities outside of the Central Terminal Area.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

27 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

We're kind of all over the place here.  

(1) Wilcal said that the luggage carts were clogging the Subway/ITT because people having to take it from E to C because of the D/E garage closures.

(2) You said that that is not accurate because the Subway/ITT is still open from E to C, entirely missing the point.

(3) Then you said, "Short-term pain/long-term gain" and implying that there is no need for luggage carts anymore because, I guess, you have never used one.

(4) I pointed out that there are plenty of people who still need them, and this situation will be with us in the long term because (as far as I can tell) there will be no replacement E garage.

(5) Someone else said he actually uses them.

(6) You implied (5) was lazy (or maybe not strong enough, or something, I dunno).  Then you stated that luggage cart usage is down because most suitcases have wheels now.  I do not see how this is germane at all to the discussion.  If there were 5 passengers per hour before the garage closed trying to put a cart on the train and there are now 30, it is immaterial if SmartCarte rented 100,000 carts in 1990 and only 5,000 in 2021 . . . the cause of the bottleneck is the 5 becoming 30 overnight.  So entirely missing the point, again.  Or, stated differently, "talking past each other."  I imagine many of the people trying to cram into the ITT are elderly and can't walk with carts to Terminal C.  There are admittedly ways for passengers "in the know" to handle this, but that's not solution for people who often can't seem to follow signs to their gates.

(7) I mentioned the elevators only as an example of how crowded they were at peak times.  In fact, if you haven't noticed, they were so crowded that an additional bank of elevators were added to the E garage after it opened.  They are now gone.

My point remains: I don't see how this will necessarily get any better in the future--even after the terminal expansion is complete--as you are confident it will.  It seems the only real improvement will be the fact that most international passengers do not park in garages during the duration of their trip, so when ecopark shuttles return to the international arrivals, that should help.  Won't help meeters/greeters, though, but maybe the decreased roadway congestion will encourage people to wait and use the cell phone lot as the arrivals curbside traffic at the peak is atrocious.

Unfortunately there's no elegant way to solve this, as the critical planning fault of IAH (dating to the 1960s and not addressed when Terminal C opened in 1980) was to sandwich the terminals between two relatively small roadways and then build concourses and apron immediately adjacent to it, preventing any opportunity for economical expansion. UA's support facilities to the east of Terminal D further limit what you can do.

The roadways are the critical landside chokepoints of the airport, same as the two crossfield taxiways SF and NR are the airside chokepoints.  To address the persistent roadway problem, the most recent master plan considered the development of a terminal for all airlines but UA on the south side of Will Clayton Parkway to remove ~50% of O&D traffic off of Terminal Road.  I'm sure ITRP includes some elements to address the problem, but there's no way to fix the fundamental issue that IAH will be up against until it develops terminal facilities outside of the Central Terminal Area.

I guess the way to resolve the problem is for you to familiarize yourself with the construction plans.  It is simply a fact that when it is done, there will be access to parking from the International Arrivals area at an equivalent, relatively short, distance from what was available before (and that also means parking will be closer for non-United international departing passengers than was available before this started). That also applies to meeters/greeters... parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated covered walkway if one prefers.

 

[mattyt36]

13 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I guess the way to resolve the problem is for you to familiarize yourself with the construction plans.  It is simply a fact that when it is done, there will be access to parking from the International Arrivals area at an equivalent, relatively short, distance from what was available before (and that also means parking will be closer for non-United international departing passengers than was available before this started). That also applies to meeters/greeters... parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated covered walkway if one prefers.

 

I'd be happy to familiarize myself with the construction plans (and I'm sure others would, too) if you want to share them (or at the very least could describe them in a meaningful way with passenger flows and walking distances) . . . surely you can understand that'd be more helpful to the discussion than making a blanket statement that carts don't matter because "it's 2021" and "all suitcases have wheels now."

And I guess in the meantime we can just hang a sign that says "SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE, PLEASE DON'T COMPLAIN."  Based on what (admittedly little) I know, I'm afraid this will only be an increasing headache as traffic returns.  I certainly have changed my travel routine as a result of this.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

47 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

I'd be happy to familiarize myself with the construction plans (and I'm sure others would, too) if you want to share them (or at the very least could describe them in a meaningful way with passenger flows and walking distances) . . . surely you can understand that'd be more helpful to the discussion than making a blanket statement that carts don't matter because "it's 2021" and "all suitcases have wheels now."

I wrote several posts ago that upon completion the walk from the international arrivals lobby to the parking garage will be less than 1/10th mile.  I wrote in my immediately preceding post that parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated walkways if one prefers.  

Beyond that, you posted links in this very thread showing the plans in detail.  I presumed you had some familiarity with the information you had posted, especially after we had the discussion in which I clarified for you that there is an elevated covered walkway going directly from the parking garage (currently known as C East) to the D/E central processor.

The cover page of the linked document (which link you provided earlier in this thread) shows just how close the parking will be to the new D/E central processor.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

Edited October 13, 2021 by Houston19514

[wilcal]

I once was talking with a flustered guy down by the subway at D/E who was making a connection for BA (LHR-IAH) to AA and didn't realize he missed the bag re-check and was mad that he was going to have to walk the 1 mile to Terminal A with his 5 bags.

I told him just to squish his cart on the train and sorry. He told me "this would never fly in London" and I told him about the last few times I've flown into LHR, even on a widebody, we've had to bus to the terminal. 

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I wrote several posts ago that upon completion the walk from the international arrivals lobby to the parking garage will be less than 1/10th mile.

My apologies, I missed that as it was the last reply on the prior page.  That said, I'm not sure that's the right metric compared to where it was before, but I don't know.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I wrote in my immediately preceding post that parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated walkways if one prefers.  

That was never in dispute, of course there will be an arrivals curbside.  But people getting picked up at the curb aren't the ones using the Subway now.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Beyond that, you posted links in this very thread showing the plans in detail.  I presumed you had some familiarity with the information you had posted, especially after we had the discussion in which I clarified for you that there is an elevated covered walkway going directly from the parking garage (currently known as C East) to the D/E central processor.

The cover page of the linked document (which link you provided earlier in this thread) shows just how close the parking will be to the new D/E central processor.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

Those are not "construction plans."  Those are layout plans, and they are not detailed at all when it comes to passenger flows.

Consider the following questions:

-Will any parking be placed on top of the new "Central Processor"?  I presume not, but am not sure.

-Will the international arrivals lobby be bumped out to be part of the new Central Processor?  If it stays where it is, it sure won't be a 10th of a mile to the C-East garage, or whatever it will be called then.  Perhaps there will be an entirely new lobby if the bag claim area is expanded, which I know was part of the plan at one point.  But I think it's inaccurate to claim the additional walking distance will be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place and passengers didn't have to leave the building to catch an elevator to the garage.

-I don't believe (but don't know for sure . . . I never parked in the C garage because it was a fight even before the E garage was torn down) that the C-East garage has a separate entrance.  Will it have a separate entrance with its own helix as part of this project?  If not, and E passengers still enter through the C-West helixes, how will the average passenger know how to park in the garage closest to the terminal?  If not, there will still be plenty of traffic between D/E and C.  But maybe they'll just walk since they'll be farther west.

-Will there be an underground pedestrian tunnel to the new Central Processor (maybe a modification of the existing Subway tunnel), or will the only two options be (1) to not change levels and cross 2 islands and 10 lanes of traffic (which I presume is what you mean by the 1/10 of a mile) then change levels in the garage; or (2) to change levels from the arrivals lobby and cross on the outdoor pedestrian bridge, which I think is a cute feature, but not exactly passenger friendly to older passengers with their Smart Cartes in August?

-By how much will total average arrival passenger walking distances change once the D-West pier opens? 

Maybe I'm just dense but that PDF really doesn't speak to the above.

54 minutes ago, wilcal said:

I once was talking with a flustered guy down by the subway at D/E who was making a connection for BA (LHR-IAH) to AA and didn't realize he missed the bag re-check and was mad that he was going to have to walk the 1 mile to Terminal A with his 5 bags.

I told him just to squish his cart on the train and sorry. He told me "this would never fly in London" and I told him about the last few times I've flown into LHR, even on a widebody, we've had to bus to the terminal. 

I can't think of any major U.S. international gateways that are convenient for interline connections if you miss the bag recheck.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Yes, without a doubt international travel can involve some significant walking and occasional minor inconveniences, like having to change levels or walk in non-climate-controlled areas to get back to your parked car.  Of course, nobody ever suggested otherwise.

But, in fact, and as I stated to begin with, the current inconvenience of not being able to take luggage carts all the way back to the attached parking garage is indeed temporary and will no longer be the case when the ITRP project is completed.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

58 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Yes, without a doubt international travel can involve some significant walking and occasional minor inconveniences, like having to change levels or walk in non-climate-controlled areas to get back to your parked car.  Of course, nobody ever suggested otherwise.

Erm . . . great 2-way conversation!  You remind me of a couple of others on here.  I've been called arrogant many times before, and for good reason, but, hey . . . 

"I don't use luggage carts, so who cares about people who do?"

"There may be some 'significant walking' and what I deem to be 'occasional minor inconveniences'"

Spoken like a true engineer or planner . . . transfer your own preferences and perspectives on to others!

58 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

But, in fact, and as I stated to begin with, the current inconvenience of not being able to take luggage carts all the way back to the attached parking garage is indeed temporary and will no longer be the case when the ITRP project is completed.

In fact, the current inconvenience will become a new inconvenience, but que será, será.  

(Or, better said, may become a new inconvenience because I still don't understand the passenger flows or have answers to the questions I posed above.  You, too, either do--or you don't--understand the flows.  If you do because you're somehow involved with the project, well I'm not sure why answers to the above would necessarily be confidential, but OK.  If you don't, well, I don't think you can represent anything as "fact" any more than I can.  In any case, we'll see soon enough . . . )

Edited October 14, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Compilation of links to videos and documents regarding ITRP to make it convenient for anyone interested in learning about the plans for the international terminals at Bush Intercontinental.  

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/IAH-to-break-ground-on-expanded-international-14542242.php

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrVq7H1vrldK2wAPE0PxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=iah+breaks+ground+international+expansion&fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hspart=Lkry&hsimp=yhs-SF01#id=1&vid=cb50ea26636cc7dec2a4dfac27d78bf2&action=view

http://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20200617/ITRP.pdf

https://player.vimeo.com/video/511205954?app_id=122963

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210322/ITRP-Update.pdf

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

https://houstontx.swagit.com/play/09162021-772

https://vimeo.com/452854585

https://houstonairport-fis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HoustonAirport-FIS-Pre-Bid-Presentation_4-19-21-FIC-Main-FINAL.pdf

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

 

Those are not "construction plans."  Those are layout plans, and they are not detailed at all when it comes to passenger flows.

Consider the following questions:

-Will any parking be placed on top of the new "Central Processor"?  I presume not, but am not sure.

No, just as there has never been at Terminal E

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-Will the international arrivals lobby be bumped out to be part of the new Central Processor?  If it stays where it is, it sure won't be a 10th of a mile to the C-East garage, or whatever it will be called then.  Perhaps there will be an entirely new lobby if the bag claim area is expanded, which I know was part of the plan at one point.  But I think it's inaccurate to claim the additional walking distance will be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place and passengers didn't have to leave the building to catch an elevator to the garage.

Yes. the international arrivals lobby will be bumped out to be under the new ticketing hall.  It's all there in the plans (whether you call them construction plans or layout plans).  And I did not say that the additional walking distance would be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place.  I said the walk from the new arrivals lobby to the C East garage will be 1/10th mile or less.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-I don't believe (but don't know for sure . . . I never parked in the C garage because it was a fight even before the E garage was torn down) that the C-East garage has a separate entrance.  Will it have a separate entrance with its own helix as part of this project?  If not, and E passengers still enter through the C-West helixes, how will the average passenger know how to park in the garage closest to the terminal?  If not, there will still be plenty of traffic between D/E and C.  But maybe they'll just walk since they'll be farther west.

I don't know of any new entrances to be added to the C garage, but there is an entrance on the east end of the Terminal C Central Processor (between the original C garage and the C East garage, such that the average passenger won't have to go all the way to the west end.) I believe this entrance is currently unavailable because of the work being done on the roadways, but I'm certain it will be back when the work is done.  (yes, another temporary inconvenience.)

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-Will there be an underground pedestrian tunnel to the new Central Processor (maybe a modification of the existing Subway tunnel), or will the only two options be (1) to not change levels and cross 2 islands and 10 lanes of traffic (which I presume is what you mean by the 1/10 of a mile) then change levels in the garage; or (2) to change levels from the arrivals lobby and cross on the outdoor pedestrian bridge, which I think is a cute feature, but not exactly passenger friendly to older passengers with their Smart Cartes in August?

Of course there will be a connection to the underground pedestrian tunnel and subway (and the current subway's replacement).  It's already there, right underneath the eastern edge of what will be the new central processor/ticket hall/arrivals hall.  

So passengers will 4 options.  Change levels (oh, the horror) and go to the subway.  Not change levels and take one of the wide cross-walks across the arrivals lanes.  Go up one level and take one of the wide crosswalks across the departure lanes.  Go up two levels and take the covered pedestrian bridge.

And, actually, for the elderly and/or disabled passengers, there's another option:  Make use of the available passenger assistance transportation. 

This is all pretty similar to most major airports (and better than many... at DFW, for example, if you parked at a different terminal, you have to climb on a bus outside, even in August (no smart Cartes allowed).

Bottom line as to the topic of the discussion:  Once the ITRP project is complete, international arriving passengers will indeed have direct access (without having to get on the Subway or a bus) to the parking garage, taxis, Uber/Lyft, and private vehicles right there at Terminal D/E.  

So the inconvenience of having to take the Subway or underground pedestrian walkway to access the parking garage/taxis/uber/Lyft/private vehicles imposed on them by the current closure of the Terminal E arrivals area is in fact temporary.

* All of the information I'm sharing here can be found in the documents and videos linked in my earlier post.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-By how much will total average arrival passenger walking distances change once the D-West pier opens? 

I have no idea.  It's a major international gateway.  Some walking is involved. As it gets bigger, more walking might have to be involved.  The good news is, there will be domestic arrival baggage belts in the new central processor, so there will be significantly less walking for a large number of arriving United domestic passengers. (Domestic E arriving passengers will no longer all have to walk to Terminal C to get their bags.)

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

Houston, you seem extraordinarily defensive and super sensitive.  I suppose those qualities are typically correlated.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

No, just as there has never been at Terminal E

No, but you could get from the elevator bank directly into the building, no? 

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

It's all there in the plans (whether you call them construction plans or layout plans). 

Yet you never bothered to point out where they were after I said I looked at them multiple times and said they were unclear.  So I ask again, on what specific page of the original PDF linked is this information clearly labeled and noted?

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I don't know of any new entrances to be added to the C garage, but there is an entrance on the east end of the Terminal C Central Processor (between the original C garage and the C East garage, such that the average passenger won't have to go all the way to the west end.) I believe this entrance is currently unavailable because of the work being done on the roadways, but I'm certain it will be back when the work is done.  (yes, another temporary inconvenience.)

Another non-answer to a very specific question, yet you seem to be certain that it's a "temporary inconvenience," implying that the level of service will be restored.  

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

So passengers will 4 options.  Change levels (oh, the horror) and go to the subway.  Not change levels and take one of the wide cross-walks across the arrivals lanes.  Go up one level and take one of the wide crosswalks across the departure lanes.  Go up two levels and take the covered pedestrian bridge.

Oh the horror?  How about oh the arrogance?  Why do you have seem to have such poorly hidden disdain for members of the traveling public that aren't you?  And may travel with more luggage?  And may use a luggage cart?  Do you seriously not think that architects and planners design such facilities to minimize changes in levels, walking distances, etc?  Why so glib?  If your stance is, "Well they did the best they could do with a constrained site," well, OK, I might be less inclined to react the way I am.  But, no, this seems to be personal to you in some weird way that you aren't able to admit that anything isn't perfect.  "Yes, it's bad, as with any construction project, but it'll be better when it's done, and anyone who disagrees can just, er, suck it."  That seems to be the hill you're determined to die on.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

And, actually, for the elderly and/or disabled passengers, there's another option:  Make use of the available passenger assistance transportation. 

Another throwaway comment.  Again, do you not believe that passenger-friendly facilities are designed to MINIMIZE the need for "passenger assistance transportation" (which I can only assume is a fancy name for a wheelchair).

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Bottom line as to the topic of the discussion:  Once the ITRP project is complete, international arriving passengers will indeed have direct access (without having to get on the Subway or a bus) to the parking garage, taxis, Uber/Lyft, and private vehicles right there at Terminal D/E.

They have access to all of that except the garage today.  Not sure who you are trying to impress to, or even talking to for that matter, in this seemingly never-ending one-way conversation.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

* All of the information I'm sharing here can be found in the documents and videos linked in my earlier post.

Indeed.  It's so obvious you can't be bothered to point out exactly where.  And you wait a week before directly addressing the questions.  Simply BIZARRE.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This is all pretty similar to most major airports (and better than many... at DFW, for example, if you parked at a different terminal, you have to climb on a bus outside, even in August (no smart Cartes allowed).

Are you saying DFW is a model to follow or something?!  Or, "At least it's not DFW"?  Aim for the stars there, buddy!

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I have no idea.  It's a major international gateway.  Some walking is involved. As it gets bigger, more walking might have to be involved.  The good news is, there will be domestic arrival baggage belts in the new central processor, so there will be significantly less walking for a large number of arriving United domestic passengers. (Domestic E arriving passengers will no longer all have to walk to Terminal C to get their bags.)

Yes, I know, when the average walking distance is a mile and a half, your response will be, "Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs."

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

What's your point?  And what got you so fired up?  Bizarre indeed.

Fact:  At the end of the ITRP project, passengers arriving from Terminal D/E will once again have direct access to (a) parking garage (b) taxis (c) Uber/Lyft (d) hotel/parking shuttles (e) rental car shuttles  and (f) private cars without having to take the Subway.  If you don't believe me, and don't want to spend the time in the documents to verify it, then you'll just have to wait until it's done to see that I was right all along.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

28 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

What's your point?  And what got you so fired up?  Bizarre indeed.

Fact:  At the end of the ITRP project, passengers arriving from Terminal D/E will once again have direct access to (a) parking garage (b) taxis (c) Uber/Lyft (d) hotel/parking shuttles (e) rental car shuttles  and (f) private cars without having to go to the Subway tunnel.  If you don't believe me, and don't want to spend the time in the documents to verify it, then you'll just have to wait until it's done to see that I was right all along.

 

Houston if you cared to engage in an actual good faith conversation maybe you’d find out.

Instead the underlying tone is “I’m right and you’ll see. Just look at the document dump that I can’t be bothered to refer to in any way myself other than to say ‘Look, it proves I’m right.’” Alrighty then.

Yes there will be a link to the C East garage. I raised questions about (1) how average passengers would be able to find it, with a real possibility that they could park in C West, ergo having the same problems as being experienced today; and then (2) the larger question of passenger service levels. You seem to not know, or choose to ignore (1), and it’s obvious you don’t care about (2), even though walking distances are one of the most primary planning considerations for airport terminal design. 

You’re obviously in some sort of juvenile, one-way intellectual competition, Mr “I’m Right—You’ll See.” So let’s call this a draw. If there are articles after the new terminal opens citing walking distances as a major concern, I guess I’ll just lay a stake in the ground and say “You’ll just have to wait until it’s done to see that I was right all along.”

Edited October 19, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Rendering from Fentress Architects showing new Terminal D/E central processor ticketing hall with view into the international arrivals hall below (this rendering is not necessarily completely up-to-date, but it shows the layout that is going to be built.) And we can see the C East parking through the glass wall.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

A couple more Fentress renderings, these are of the lower level, International Arrivals Hall, of the new Terminal D/E central processor, with a view upwards into the upper level ticketing hall.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Houston19514