Super Tuesday Scoreboard

[lockmat]

Exactly. None of the three viable candidates have had any meaningful executive leadership experience.

If you read essays they've written on foreign policy, both are inane, but Obama sounds like he's been reading the NY Times while Clinton at least sounds like she's been on the Senate armed services committee, keeping track of actual goings-on throughout the world that conventional media don't give any coverage to. I'm not going to say that she isn't the most qualified candidate where national security is concerned, so the red phone ad doesn't strike me as being all that implausible as a way to contrast her with Obama. I wouldn't say that it is all that effective by any other way that it may be interpreted, but at this point it doesn't have to be.

What did McCain do prior to politics? law?

[TheNiche]

What did McCain do prior to politics? law?

My understanding is that he went pretty much straight from the military into politics. I'm not sure, actually, if he ever had his own command while in the military.

[lockmat]

My understanding is that he went pretty much straight from the military into politics. I'm not sure, actually, if he ever had his own command while in the military.

At least we know he has some leadership characteristics. I heard some story on the radio the other day about him being a prisoner of war and not doing something for the sake of the troops with him?

Not to say that Obama and Hilary doesn't have that, I just don't know any stories.

[Guest danax]

At least we know he has some leadership characteristics. I heard some story on the radio the other day about him being a prisoner of war and not doing something for the sake of the troops with him?

Supposedly he became an instant snitch once captured, and made 32 different tapes of Communist propaganda to avoid torture. Vets who were there have posted such info online, but who knows.

All presidents do now anyway are follow policy and give speeches written by others.

[wernicke]

Supposedly he became an instant snitch once captured, and made 32 different tapes of Communist propaganda to avoid torture. Vets who were there have posted such info online, but who knows.

All presidents do now anyway are follow policy and give speeches written by others.

I definitely don't think your characterization of him as an "instant snitch" is fitting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Prisoner_of_war

In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[3] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[32] the North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[37] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[43] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[44]

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[37][32] McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate".[32] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[45] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[37] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[46]

[memebag]

So McCain's military experience was to get captured and tortured? What if he gets our whole country captured and tortured? I don't need that. We should elect someone who has experience capturing and torturing others.

[sevfiv]

Gloria Steinem chimed in on it, too:

http://www.observer.com/2008/stumping-clin...-cred-overrated

[Mark F. Barnes]

lol!!

Sad thing is, the same could be said for Obama. Two years in state govt and two in the senate, is that right?

Yeah but he's not beating us over the head with a load of crap about his "Lifetime of Experience"

Gloria Steinem chimed in on it, too:

http://www.observer.com/2008/stumping-clin...-cred-overrated

Steinem holds about as much water as a worn out colander. If Hillary lets her start talking for her, she finished. Steinem is a liability, not an asset.

[Mark F. Barnes]

[musicman]

LOL hilarious Mark.

[westguy]

So McCain's military experience was to get captured and tortured? What if he gets our whole country captured and tortured? I don't need that. We should elect someone who has experience capturing and torturing others.

Military service should not be an issue anymore. After the last guy protected the skies of Texas from Vietnamese and went AWOL, before his father raked his opponent over the coals for his lack of military service, we should finally close the book on that crap.

[CDeb]

Good God!

In 2004, some of you Dems were going absolutely bonkers over the Swiftboat Vets for Truth and anyone who remotely questioned the most famous three months in military service history (ie Sen. Kerry in Vietnam) but yet are now citicizing a man who had a much tougher go of it (and isn't making his service THE centerpiece of his campaign, unlike Sen. Kerry).

Man, it's getting deep in here!

[TheNiche]

Military service should not be an issue anymore.

I'd have to disagree. I'd like for a prospective commander in chief of the armed forces to have a fairly intimate knowledge of how they're structured and how they work.

...of course from my perspective, a good president would do their best to back the hell off from most all the powers that have been allowed that position throughout the 20th and a fair bit of the 19th centuries. In that context, being commander in chief is a pretty significant role.

[RedScare]

The blunt truth is that the only leadership experience any of the three have is their time as Senators. All three have interesting and laudable life experiences prior to their election to the Senate, but none of their life experiences necessarily qualifies any of them for the office of President. However, it should be pointed out that the current occupant makes it plainly clear that ANY of the three candidates currently vying for the job is iminently qualified to occupy the office, as the bar for entry has been set lower than at any time in our history.

We may have differing opinions on who we'd like to see in the White House, due to the issues each candidate pays the most attention to, or the personality each projects to the voters or the world. But, one thing that we all can agree upon is that the sooner these 8 years of ineptitude and division are put behind us, the better.

[Guest danax]

I definitely don't think your characterization of him as an "instant snitch" is fitting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain#Prisoner_of_war

In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[3] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[32] the North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[37] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[43] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[44]

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[37][32] McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate".[32] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[45] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[37] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[46]

Here's an interesting

with some folks who were involved in trying to pass a bill to release info about POWs and MIAs that might still be there, and McCain apparently fought hard against, with speculators thinking he didn't want his own files unsealed. Some other opinions are included regarding what he did in captivity and why he chose to stay there when offered the chance to go home.

I don't watch TV but has anyone there investigated his story? None of us certainly can know the truth, that should be the media's job. Or perhaps there's no way to since the only proof available of what happened there comes from McCain. The media has become better at covering up than uncovering the truth.

[BryanS]

It's getting nasty out there. From americablog.

Hillary ad also widens Obama's face, making his nose more stereotypically African-American - and then they got caught lying about it

You'll recall that we wrote yesterday about how Hillary had blackened Barack Obama's face in a new campaign attack ad. Well, Markos found that that's not all they did. They also stretched the width of Obama's face, making his nose wider and more stereotypically African-American looking. Oh yeah, and then they lied about it, and got caught.

[KinkaidAlum]

Hillary's interview, you know, is like, you know, funny.

[TheNiche]

The media has become better at covering up than uncovering the truth.

Has it?

Do you believe that a crippled president would go unreported, as was FDR? Do you think that a philandering president that conducted nuclear diplomacy while hopped up on every kind of medication would escape publicity as did JFK (or would partisans ask him to step down)? Do you think the spontaneous explosion of a US warship while docked in a foreign port would been immediately and without question construed as an act of war by that country against ours? Do you think that the aftermath of a battle over a tiny island in the pacific in which Americans won, but at the cost of greater numbers of KIAs than the enemy would be construed as an actual victory...or would a flag-raising event be interpreted as merely a team of political operatives propogating a propagandistic message which ought to be mocked rather than revered?

Given how technology has allowed media to evolve from what had been effectively an oligopoly in the early and mid 20th century, where leaks were easily contained, and journalists held in confidence, to the present day where one independent blogger can blow the cover off of a story, then have it perpetuated by one set of partisans or another, spreading it all over youtube.com, then gaining enough momentum that the story gets picked up by traditional press, I'd say that the greater part at present isn't uncovering what is secret, but verifying the truthfulness of a supposed story.

[Guest danax]

Given how technology has allowed media to evolve from what had been effectively an oligopoly in the early and mid 20th century, where leaks were easily contained, and journalists held in confidence, to the present day where one independent blogger can blow the cover off of a story, then have it perpetuated by one set of partisans or another, spreading it all over youtube.com, then gaining enough momentum that the story gets picked up by traditional press, I'd say that the greater part at present isn't uncovering what is secret, but verifying the truthfulness of a supposed story.

The alternative media has been great at bringing things out and allowing all to decide for themselves. Specific recent examples of unwillingness of the media to expose truth are the 911 coverup and Sibel Edmond's disclosures. Type either in "News" on Google and all you'll get will be alternative sites.

As I said, I don't watch TV so I am asking, is anyone questioning McCain's POW story or are they just taking his word for it? And like you said, there's plenty of info available these days that is worthy of verification.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Interesting Video

[Mark F. Barnes]

To be fair, the other side of the coin

[Jeebus]

The alternative media has been great at bringing things out and allowing all to decide for themselves. Specific recent examples of unwillingness of the media to expose truth are the 911 coverup

What were they unwilling to expose?

As I said, I don't watch TV so I am asking, is anyone questioning McCain's POW story or are they just taking his word for it?

What is there to question?

[Jeebus]

Military service should not be an issue anymore.

Sure it should be. The fact that someone served in the military shows that they've at one point volunteered to serve their country.

For those who want to argue about some who don't qualify for the military, or who refuse to serve, then volunteer with the USO. Volunteering with them directly supports the troops. I don't want anyone in any public office that didn't voluntarily serve in the military, or at least volunteered to serve their military.

So McCain's military experience was to get captured and tortured? What if he gets our whole country captured and tortured? I don't need that. We should elect someone who has experience capturing and torturing others.

No, here's his military experience, leading up to his election to the US Senate:

John McCain attended the United States Naval Academy and graduated in 1958. He was married in 1965. He became a naval aviator, flying attack aircraft from carriers. During the Vietnam War in 1967, he narrowly escaped death in the Forrestal fire. On his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam later in 1967, he was shot down and badly injured. He then endured five and a half years as a prisoner of war, including periods of torture, before he was released following the Paris Peace Accords in 1973.

Retiring from the Navy in 1981 and recently remarried, McCain moved to Arizona and entered politics. In 1982, he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from Arizona's 1st congressional district. After serving two terms there, he was elected to the U.S. Senate from Arizona in 1986.

Supposedly he became an instant snitch once captured, and made 32 different tapes of Communist propaganda to avoid torture. Vets who were there have posted such info online, but who knows.

I found this:

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.

The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."

So my question is this: how many days could you go in a concrete room, randomly interrigated using torturous methods, all while sporting 2 broken arms, 1 broken leg, broken collar bone, infected left foot (from the stab wound), and probably other unknown blunt force injuries from the parachute landing and subsequent violent transports to various locations?

McCain made it 4 days before he caved and talked. That's pretty impressive. Anyone who thinks differently has been watching too much "24".

He only got special treatment because the North Vietnamese feared what possible actions the Navy would take if the son of their leader had died when they could have saved him. He was basically a bargaining chip. That's war.

[TheNiche]

Specific recent examples of unwillingness of the media to expose truth are the 911 coverup...

[lockmat]

Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id...3788&page=1

newsflash: This is not good for Obama.