mpope409 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Houston, along with many Sunbelt cities, is constantly being criticized for having boring architecture. Between the wide, boxy glass towers and stucco-like parking garages, not many seem to be a fan of the scenery our skyline has to offer. Unfortunately, I often agree. I do not have a problem with some post modern structures, but so many of them are so bland and have no bit of aesthetic appeal to them.The Esperson buildings are like the jewels of downtown. Very romantic and elegant. Where are our other buildings like them? I would love for this city to have a mini building boom of highrises and skyscrapers that paid homage to the Italian Renaissance or Art Deco era, for example. Ushering back in a new trend of brick buildings that allowed such elaborate and classic design from the minds of some of the world's greatest architects.My question is, are we too far gone in technology and time for these types of structures to ever become likely again? Would it be too expensive, nowadays? Would it be cheaper? Would building them take more time than most are willing to commit to?They're certainly not out of style, but I was just wondering if such an aspiration was unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 costs are definitely increased building something like an esperson. many of the exterior pieces are unique, built by skilled craftsmen. things like this are more rare everywhere, not just houston. the nicer buildings will most likely be owner occupied while those being built by developers will tend to be done with more "off the shelf" type items vs. custom ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Paying homage to Italian Rennaisance architecture is a little different proposition than a building boom of brick skyscrapers. Is that what you're asking? Why don't we build skyscrapers out of brick? Or marble, for that matter.Perhaps you have a point. The old Astroworld land would be perfect for a pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 costs are definitely increased building something like an esperson. many of the exterior pieces are unique, built by skilled craftsmen. things like this are more rare everywhere, not just houston. the nicer buildings will most likely be owner occupied while those being built by developers will tend to be done with more "off the shelf" type items vs. custom ones.So what you're saying is that it's very unlikely for developers to have these types of structures in mind? The city is no longer interested in such projects? If so, then why?Is that what you're asking? Why don't we build skyscrapers out of brick?That's exactly what I'm asking. Buildings with beauty and character and elaborate design. Why not dare to start doing something that's unheard of today.Not to mention, even if Houston was to continue building with glass and steel, why must the buildings always be so bulky and plain? Towers that are more slender and complicated in the frame work would be much more slick and appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 So what you're saying is that it's very unlikely for developers to have these types of structures in mind? The city is no longer interested in such projects? If so, then why?i would say a developer would be more interested in making money than making something architecturally interesting. They want to use cheaper materials/techniques so as to maximize their profit. a city could do something, however public outcry on cost would probably result if they did so. personally i think lack of craftsmen to actually do it is a factor as well. look at the trim work in a newer house vs. an old one. have you seen a change in the last 40-50 yrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Not to mention, even if Houston was to continue building with glass and steel, why must the buildings always be so bulky and plain? Towers that are more slender and complicated in the frame work would be much more slick and appealing.Money. The return on invetment for decoration is very low. I've you've got money you don't need and want to spend it on a brick skyscraper or slender tower, go for it. You just won't get as much of it back as if you built a plain box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yep. Profit maximization. Niche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 i would say a developer would be more interested in making money than making something architecturally interesting. They want to use cheaper materials/techniques so as to maximize their profit. a city could do something, however public outcry on cost would probably result if they did so. personally i think lack of craftsmen to actually do it is a factor as well. look at the trim work in a newer house vs. an old one. have you seen a change in the last 40-50 yrs?I wouldn't say that all of the craftsmen are gone, but that they do seem to be in short supply. You would think that with Rice U's acclaimed architecture program, some of the best would be right here in the city.Now that we have identified that the problem is money, all I can do is wonder what can be done about it.Money. The return on invetment for decoration is very low. I've you've got money you don't need and want to spend it on a brick skyscraper or slender tower, go for it. You just won't get as much of it back as if you built a plain box. Well if that's the case, Houston seems to be the only city that's making such poor decisions. Look at Atlanta. There's certainly not more money in that city than there is here, but the architecture of their buildings far exceeds ours.And I disagree that the return on investment is low. When you have a good looking city, people want to come here to see it. It invests in our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well if that's the case, Houston seems to be the only city that's making such poor decisions. Look at Atlanta. There's certainly not more money in that city than there is here, but the architecture of their buildings far exceeds ours.Huh? Houston has a massive, complicated brick skyscraper (Bank of America Center) shaped like a frigging cathedral.And I disagree that the return on investment is low. When you have a good looking city, people want to come here to see it. It invests in our future.Cheap office space attracts people who will actually pay for it, not just look at it. When JPMC moved most of their software development to Houston, our aesthetics weren't their prime motivation. It was cheap space, low cost of living and cheap labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Huh? Houston has a massive, complicated brick skyscraper (Bank of America Center) shaped like a frigging cathedral. Bank of America Center is a fine example of good architecture here, but it's certainly not the norm here in Houston, Texas.Cheap office space attracts people who will actually pay for it, not just look at it. When JPMC moved most of their software development to Houston, our aesthetics weren't their prime motivation. It was cheap space, low cost of living and cheap labor. Okay. So Houston has no problem holding the attention of businesses. What about holding the attention of tourists and the media? What about having structures to be proud of? Something beatiful to look at for a change.Not that I'm comparing, but places like New York and Chicago wouldn't be what they are today if they looked like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Bank of America Center is a fine example of good architecture here, but it's certainly not the norm here in Houston, Texas.Then I assume Wells Fargo Plaza, Williams Tower, Heritage Plaza, Enterprise Plaza, and Centerpoint Energy Plaza aren't the norm. What, in your opinion, is the norm for Houston?Okay. So Houston has no problem holding the attention of businesses. What about holding the attention of tourists and the media?I don't care about tourists or the media. Their attention can drift.What about having structures to be proud of? Something beatiful to look at for a change.Maybe you need to re-tune your aesthetic sense to better suit your environment. I find beauty in power lines, aging strip centers, cracked concrete and overgrown yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Then I assume Wells Fargo Plaza, Williams Tower, Heritage Plaza, Enterprise Plaza, and Centerpoint Energy Plaza aren't the norm. What, in your opinion, is the norm for Houston?I don't care about tourists or the media. Their attention can drift.Maybe you need to re-tune your aesthetic sense to better suit your environment. I find beauty in power lines, aging strip centers, cracked concrete and overgrown yards. Lol, well you make it quite evident that you don't share my sentiments, so I'm not sure you'll be much help in that regard. But Wells Fargo and Heritage Plazas are exactly the type of structures I don't want to see going up anymore. Heritage Plaza is probably the most ghastly hideous skyscraper in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Lol, well you make it quite evident that you don't share my sentiments, so I'm not sure you'll be much help in that regard. But Wells Fargo and Heritage Plazas are exactly the type of structures I don't want to see going up anymore. Heritage Plaza is probably the most ghastly hideous skyscraper in America. Then I'm confused. This looks like just the sort of thing you say you want more of. It has beauty, character and elaborate design. It isn't plain or bulky. What don't you like about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Lol, well you make it quite evident that you don't share my sentiments, so I'm not sure you'll be much help in that regard. But Wells Fargo and Heritage Plazas are exactly the type of structures I don't want to see going up anymore. Heritage Plaza is probably the most ghastly hideous skyscraper in America.lol, and you make ill-informed, sweeping generalizations. I suspect your aesthetic is informed mostly by Conde Nast magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Then I'm confused. This looks like just the sort of thing you say you want more of. It has beauty, character and elaborate design. It isn't plain or bulky. What don't you like about it? Heritage Plaza is very bulky and plain (emphasis on "very"). It looks cheap, and I see no beauty in it. It's wide and fat. lol, and you make ill-informed, sweeping generalizations. I suspect your aesthetic is informed mostly by Conde Nast magazines. Why? Because I have an opinion? Because I don't praise mediocrity? Give me a break. My "aesthetic" comes from class and taste. Two things that this amazing city's downtown has little of, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 houston can go back to the good ol' days of architecture. but, it will not be with the same materials, processes or design. i doubt that buildings like the espersons will ever be built based purely on nostalgia or style. it would have to be profitable..........2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 My "aesthetic" comes from class and taste. Two things that this amazing city's downtown has little of, unfortunately.The very act of declaring your own class and taste in such a manner shows just how little "taste" and "class" you really have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 The very act of declaring your own class and taste in such a manner shows just how little "taste" and "class" you really have.Whatever. Say what you want, it's neither here nor there with me. The fact of the matter is that a lot buildings in downtown Houston are big and ugly. That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I certainly respect another's opinion. Such passionate opposition to ghastly, cheap, wide, plain, fat things makes me think there's some projection going on, but what do I know. Good thing you're clearly not a published critic, or I can see it now: Houston: A Cheap Handbag Dangling Off a Fat, Poorly Dressed Arm.Let me guess, you're also all riled up by the that fact that there aren't any fashion design houses represented downtown, and the lighting is poor. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 My "aesthetic" comes from class and taste. Two things that this amazing city's downtown has little of, unfortunately.Your "aesthetic" is the anachronism of a bygone era. Brick highrises were built when masonry was the least expensive choice of siding. With the advent of curtainwall during the 1950's, everything changed. Thankfully, it's not going back...check out some color photos of Houston's skyline circa 1950 if you have any doubt. It was all the very same boring shade of beige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I think this guy is a Dallasite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 I think this guy is a Dallasite.No, this girl is not a Dallasite. And can we please keep this thread mature and civilized? Without insulting another person just because their opinion differs from yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 I certainly respect another's opinion. Such passionate opposition to ghastly, cheap, wide, plain, fat things makes me think there's some projection going on, but what do I know. Good thing you're clearly not a published critic, or I can see it now: Houston: A Cheap Handbag Dangling Off a Fat, Poorly Dressed Arm.Let me guess, you're also all riled up by the that fact that there aren't any fashion design houses represented downtown, and the lighting is poor. Am I right? That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm just sick of outsiders saying that Houston is ugly and has no potential for greatness, while I think that this city has all the potential in the world. But since you asked, yes I do think the lighting is poor.Jeez, I guess I chose the wrong website to have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 No, this girl is not a Dallasite. And can we please keep this thread mature and civilized? Without insulting another person just because their opinion differs from yours.My bad. I was jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Jeez, I guess I chose the wrong website to have an opinion.No, you didn't. But, if your opinion consists of : the buildings are plain, wide, and ugly; but brick, craftsmen, and the Renaissance is nice; Atlanta (?); and no class or taste, all without some sort of definition or documentation as to your frame of reference, then yeah, maybe you should reconsider adult swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 mpope? are you a chef. i love monica pope's food.come on people. what happened to "welcome to the forum mpope409. happy to have you haifing."?jmpope, just in case you weren't welcomed: welcome to the forum!i do not necessarily agree with your perspective on houston's architecture; however, i'm happy you've chosen haif to share that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Our mod is right. Welcome, mpope --say what you want and stand your ground! It's pretty-much a sausage-fest, but it's fun here. Very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpope409 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 No, you didn't. But, if your opinion consists of : the buildings are plain, wide, and ugly; but brick, craftsmen, and the Renaissance is nice; Atlanta (?); and no class or taste, all without some sort of definition or documentation as to your frame of reference, then yeah, maybe you should reconsider adult swim.How exactly do you give documentation to an opinion. All I was doing was stating an opinion and asking a question. Nothing more nothing less.And I have yet to be persuaded that this is the forum of mature adults in favor of intelligent discussion. It feels like a boys club here. Where if you're not praising the "accomplishments" of Houston, you'll be frowned upon.I just want to know why everybody seems to have something against improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 And I have yet to be persuaded that this is the forum of mature adults.Don't know where you heard THAT description of our forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 How exactly do you give documentation to an opinion. All I was doing was stating an opinion and asking a question. Nothing more nothing less.And I have yet to be persuaded that this is the forum of mature adults in favor of intelligent discussion. It feels like a boys club here. Where if you're not praising the "accomplishments" of Houston, you'll be frowned upon.I just want to know why everybody seems to have something against improvement.i know of no one here against improvements. it is the definition of "improvements" that we so love to hash out. everyone is very different. VERY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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