Downtown CBD / Areas Outside Of Uptown

[totheskies]

I just wanted to express my views on the year-old "argument" about which skyline is better.

First, Houston and Dallas both have amazing skylines. We're lucky to have such great CBDs in Texas, and another tall one on they way (Austin!). I grew up in Arkansas, and Dallas was the first large city that I ever visited... in fact, it got me hooked on city skylines. I happen to be fascinated with the Dallas skyline, ESPECIALLY at night. I think the building arrangement works pretty well together, and the addition of Victory is really starting to unify it even more. Victory is sleek and futuristic... a great compliment to buildings like BoA and Fountain Place. Also, this discussion isn't complete without mentioning Ft. Worth, it has a great skyline, albeit smaller than the other two.

And then there's Houston. First off, I seriously didn't even know that Houston existed until like 2001 (I'd of course heard of the Rockets, and oil companies, but I never paid attention to it). My vision of Texas was really based on Dallas and Ft. Worth. One day, I was surfing a computer looking up different cities, and I saw this big yellow blob on a Texas map, and it read "Houston, the largest city in Texas". I was like 'wait that's got to be a mistake... everyone knows that Dallas is Texas' largest city'. Then I saw a picture of the skyline, and I was hooked!

So as far as the skylines, I am totally biased, though I do enjoy Dallas more and more each time I visit. Downtown and victory are amazing. But Houston is just on a different 'level'... it's like a big clump of several cities, all very close to each other. If you get tired of always hanging out downtown, you can hop the trian to the Medical Center and it feels like a whole new world. Or if sprawly scrapers are more your style, you can go check out the Galleria. Houston just has a great variety of skylines and urban forms... one for every occasion.

[swtsig]

the operative phrase in the whole article is "providing financing can be secured"

who is financing $150M+ condo projects right now?

[dfwcre8tive]

Here's the rendering for 1900 Pacific, which hasn't changed since 2006.

[Houston19514]

Nice looking rendering. But who else thinks $160 Million for this 57 story condo building, completely rehabbing an old building into a 5-star boutique hotel, and building a park with underground parking is, how shall I put it, unlikely?

[The Great Hizzy!]

I also like the rendering. I also wonder how financing will come about in today's environment. If it does, then I think there should be a detailed study of how the developers were able to secure the dough. It would have to be ingenious.

[TxDave]

In the current economic climate, I don't see how this project could happen anytime soon. But, I will provide a contrary opinion in that I really don't care for the rendering - just looks tall and awkward to me.

In reality I would rather see the mid-century building that is currently on the site retrofitted to new uses (granted, easier said than done). I would like to see development of new towers focused on the many vacant lots that are currently available downtown, rather than existing structures that provide some historical background and fabric for the neighborhood.

I am likely on the losing end of this battle, but the economic slowdown does provide sufficient time for a change in plans and opinion.

[dfwcre8tive]

Despite glut of downtown apartments, more units planned

Dallas Business Journal - by Katherine Cromer Brock Staff writer

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dalla..&.../27/story3.html

As swanky apartments continue to open up for leasing in downtown Dallas, some have said it signals a bright future for the city.

But experts say that in the sagging residential market, the glut of urban housing options may push the light at the end of the tunnel a little further down the road.

[TxDave]

Downtown Dallas is really starting to develop into a true neighborhood (balancing housing, retail, & employment). Any surplus of housing does slow things down, but as the neighborhood becomes more established, demand for housing will increase.

[dfwcre8tive]

Main Street Garden park opens in November:

[LTAWACS]

None of the photos are working for me...

[Houston19514]

Posted Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 3:57 PM

I'm not surprised you don't understand the relevance to this topic. That has seemed to be a problem from the beginning. I'm not saying it's the best we can do, I'm saying it is a very positive thing for downtown Dallas. Time will tell. How about we meet here in 1 year and analyze real estate and housing data to see who is right? I'll make an Outlook reminder now.

Jason

In another thread that was later closed, JasonDFW and I (and others) had a lengthy discussion about whether the Victory Park development would help or hurt downtown Dallas. I argued that to the extent Victory Park was successful, it would hurt the downtown Dallas office market. Jason (and others) argued that it would help downtown Dallas. As seen in Jason's post quoted above, we agreed to meet here in a year to check on how downtown Dallas was doing. I'm sorry that Jason's Outlook has apparently failed him because he never checked in.

Well, here we are almost three years later. From the Dallas Business Journal, September 28, 2009: "The vacancy rate for the Dallas Central Business District is approaching 30%, jumping from 26.5 percent a year ago to its current 29.1 percent." (For the record, in 3rd quarter 2006, the CBD office vacancy rate as approximately 21.6%.)

[Dallasboi]

Posted Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 3:57 PM

I'm not surprised you don't understand the relevance to this topic. That has seemed to be a problem from the beginning. I'm not saying it's the best we can do, I'm saying it is a very positive thing for downtown Dallas. Time will tell. How about we meet here in 1 year and analyze real estate and housing data to see who is right? I'll make an Outlook reminder now.

Jason

In another thread that was later closed, JasonDFW and I (and others) had a lengthy discussion about whether the Victory Park development would help or hurt downtown Dallas. I argued that to the extent Victory Park was successful, it would hurt the downtown Dallas office market. Jason (and others) argued that it would help downtown Dallas. As seen in Jason's post quoted above, we agreed to meet here in a year to check on how downtown Dallas was doing. I'm sorry that Jason's Outlook has apparently failed him because he never checked in.

Well, here we are almost three years later. From the Dallas Business Journal, September 28, 2009: "The vacancy rate for the Dallas Central Business District is approaching 30%, jumping from 26.5 percent a year ago to its current 29.1 percent." (For the record, in 3rd quarter 2006, the CBD office vacancy rate as approximately 21.6%.)

ok......now what......u had an orgasm because dallas is failing (in your eyes)like u predicted?????....please get over it....DAMN!!!!

[LTAWACS]

Thank you, Gary, for those photos; I know seen that skyline somewhere...

What buildings are those? Is that MorganStanleyDeanWitter on the left? And I know that's got to be the BankOfOZ Tower on the right.

Seeing "cityscapes" like this have always amused me. What need would residents of OZ have for such structures? I mean, who needs any sort of economy if all one has to do is consult some witch/oracle and make things appear? Why would they need skyscrapers? I mean, do they take elevators to their penthouse suite? And if so, then what? Do the residents of OZ get up and go to work everyday in one of these towers? What kind of company would it be? How would would their economy work? Ugh.

[Houston19514]

ok......now what......u had an orgasm because dallas is failing (in your eyes)like u predicted?????....please get over it....DAMN!!!!

ROFL

Good to see you again, Dallasboi. I believe you promised me a meal of crow to be served at the top of Victory Tower. Surely that construction must be nearing completion by now . . . ;-)

Is it really unreasonable to occasionally check back on some predictions and see how they turned out? Sorry you don't seem to be able to handle reality so well.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Houston19514

[Dallasboi]

ROFL

Good to see you again, Dallasboi. I believe you promised me a meal of crow to be served at the top of Victory Tower. Surely that construction must be nearing completion by now . . . ;-)

Is it really unreasonable to occasionally check back on some predictions and see how they turned out? Sorry you don't seem to be able to handle reality so well.

.....we are just fine up here in Dallas.......still progressing...thanx for the update and concern....of course you have alot of time on your hands because it only takes 10 min to shop at all the stores at HP......Oh and good to see or hear or read u again too.

[kylejack]

.....we are just fine up here in Dallas.......still progressing...thanx for the update and concern....of course you have alot of time on your hands because it only takes 10 min to shop at all the stores at HP......Oh and good to see or hear or read u again too.

HP is geared more towards restaurants and entertainment venues, hope this helps.

[Houston19514]

.....we are just fine up here in Dallas.......still progressing...thanx for the update and concern....of course you have alot of time on your hands because it only takes 10 min to shop at all the stores at HP......Oh and good to see or hear or read u again too.

LOL You are too precious. I suppose you've been too busy shopping at all of those "only in Dallas" international shops in Victory Park. Really, DallasBoi, you make it too easy.

[dfwcre8tive]

Testing the LED "garden rooms" at Main Street Garden, which opens next month.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/

Edited October 13, 2009 by njjeppson

[Mister X]

KEEP DALLAS TACKY!

[Dallasboi]

KEEP DALLAS TACKY!

"Keep Houston Tardy,Tired and Trashy"

[Mister X]

"Keep Houston Tardy,Tired and Trashy"

...three things that all Dallasites are VERY familiar with because Dallas has all these things in abundance. And let's not forget about it's nationally recognized reputation for having bad taste and lots and lots and lots of empty offices downtown.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Mister X

[Gary]

.....we are just fine up here in Dallas.......still progressing...thanx for the update and concern....of course you have alot of time on your hands because it only takes 10 min to shop at all the stores at HP......Oh and good to see or hear or read u again too.

Are you for real? You've got to put up a little bit better fight my friend from the north. Try a little salt on that crow, it'll go down easier.

Seriously, I take no joy in Dallas' CBD falling to such vacancy levels, but it sure is fun when folks like Dallasboi get their hats handed to em.

[dfwcre8tive]

Here's a great article discussing all the features of the park which opens in a few weeks (with all of the rain we have had construction has been slow).

Willis Winters Gives Us a Slightly Soggy, Kind of Early Walking Tour of Main Street Garden

By Robert Wilonsky in News You Can Actually Use, Actually

Tue., Oct. 27 2009 @ 2:11PM

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2009/10/a_slightly_soggy_kind_of_early.php

​Willis Winters, assistant director of the city's Park and Recreation Department, was kind enough to give Unfair Park a tour of the $17-million Main Street Garden this morning -- and by "garden," I mean mud pit and swimmin' hole. Hence, Winters's acknowledgment that, yes, it's quite likely the garden -- the first of several planned downtown parks -- won't be quite ready for its November 13 official debut, especially with more rain in the forecast for week's end.

"The rain is killin' us," says Winters. "We were originally shooting for November 5, and actually there will be quite a bit done by November 5. It will be presentable by November 13. We're trying to prioritize what will be finished right now. There's a slight chance that date will change. But that's due to scheduling, not construction." He's referring to the fact several council members are scheduled to attend the National League of Cities convention in San Antonio that week.

​Still, he says, the park's "in good shape" for the November 20 City Lights Christmas-tree lighting ceremony, when DowntownDallas will debut New York-based landscape architect Thomas Balsley's 60-foot-tall tree. (Addison-based Excitement Technologies, which has done work at Cowboys Stadium, is handling the lighting and production, says DowntownDallas's Kourtney Garrett.)

"As you can see, we're trying to work around" the mud and water, Winters says. "All the activity today is on the perimeter, and we're trying to scrape the mud to the center. That's the easiest thing to finish at the last, so now they're just using it as a staging area."

After the jump, Winters walks us through the park's amenities. But first question's first: Will the Lily Pad, the city's first foray into the eat-and-drink business, serve alcohol? "They want to," he says, mentioning beer and wine and the TABC. So, with that out of the way ... jump, but watch the mud.

...

Which brings us to an area that, at present, looks like a cemetery -- but only because, well, it is. What you see here are rescued remnants of buildings that once stood on this part of downtown, which Winters, who's also a noted city historian, was delighted to keep in order to pay homage to downtown's past.

"For example, if you look across the street and look at the limestone on the original Hilton, we took the stone and saved them to redisplay them here," he says, noting that they do, indeed, look like tombstones. "It's an artifact to commemorate the buildings. And there will be an interpretive graphic that will talk about the history of this part of downtown and its development from the 1870s to current day and show how it transformed from small houses to big buildings."

​And, finally, our last stop: the stage. Though Winters says there will actually be two -- including a smaller one just to the left of the main one, closer to Commerce Street. Also near there will be the old neon "PARK" sign once directing people to the gold-ringed parking garage that used to sit on the spot. It's being refurbished for installation next month.

"I just love the fact this park is surrounded by so many eras of Dallas architecture," Winter says. "There's the 1913 City Hall, the 1926 Hilton, the Tiches building from the '20s, the Mercantile from the late '40s, the Statler and library form the late '50s and the Comerica building from the '80s. It's surrounded by all these significant buildings, and we felt by putting this park here it would open up all these great vistas and remind people of their prominence and importance."

...

Edited October 28, 2009 by njjeppson

[Dallasboi]

Are you for real? You've got to put up a little bit better fight my friend from the north. Try a little salt on that crow, it'll go down easier.

Seriously, I take no joy in Dallas' CBD falling to such vacancy levels, but it sure is fun when folks like Dallasboi get their hats handed to em.

lol......have u even been to downtown dallas lately.....vacancy rates are things not seen by the naked eye when visiting a city....most people couldn't care less when visiting a city....Visit DTD and come see whats happening........vacancy rates?????!!!....even if it is high,..me along with a ton of other people are really enjoying whats going on DT. its a whole new place.And pretty soon companies are gonna swarm DTD from everywhere....including Houston

[Dallasboi]

...three things that all Dallasites are VERY familiar with because Dallas has all these things in abundance. And let's not forget about it's nationally recognized reputation for having bad taste and lots and lots and lots of empty offices downtown.

..U are simply a joke.....Ive never heard of Dallas being Nationally known for bad taste...u guys make up anything to soothe your envy....GET OVER IT!....The envy will only get worse in the coming years because Dallas has just begun another wave of development:Woodall Rogers Park,Covention Ctr hotel,Museum of Nature and Science and the Calatrava bridge is picking up steam..DTD main street new lighting scheme that will be introduced at the end of this year along with Runion Towers New LED lighting scheme.And on top of that...Dallas has just completed and about to complete alot of development also....its too much to name.......oh and Mister X GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 28, 2009 by Dallasboi

[citizen4rmptown]

the park/garden resembles Discovery Green a lot. Smaller, but may provide for a more intimate experience.

I dont like how Dallas and Houston swap developments and ideas.....Can't they both come up with original ideas on their own? Eh, maybe thats what major cities do.....

Edited October 28, 2009 by citizen4rmptown

[RedScare]

What does any of this have to do with the Downtown Dallas CBD or areas outside Dallas' Uptown Area?

You should direct that question to the Dallas resident who sent the thread careening in this direction. Or, you could get it back on track by posting new information on the Dallas CBD, if there is any out there.

[dfwcre8tive]

Here's a video showing CityLights and the new Main Street Garden:

Edited December 1, 2009 by njjeppson

[LTAWACS]

Here's a video showing CityLights and the new Main Street Garden:

Cool vid.

[RedScare]

*yawn*

Speaking of "yawn", this is a thread about areas other than Uptown, such as Victory. In an attempt to steer this thread back on topic, why don't you tell us what's going on in Victory these days, Dallasboi?