How can gays have children?

[musicman]

Wow. What a sweeping unsubstantiated statement.

sweeping would be good too. but puma would have someone else do it.

doing things as a family is better for the children. IMO planting a garden as a family will instill more in a child than going to the store and buying the organic vegetables.

What are you trying to prove, anything you dish out that the average family does, a wealthy family can do too. . .

adios amigo.

[TJones]

And all of that is validating and are great examples. There are always goods things you can share with kids that don't cost anything. People with high incomes can do those as well. I just mention, yet again, you can do even more with money, enhance your kids childhood.

You keep saying this, yet have shown no examples. You got a top ten list of things that will "enhance" these children of prosperity ? You keep saying, rich folks can do more, you mean like hire a Nanny to take care of the kid ?

[Pumapayam]

You keep saying, rich folks can do more, you mean like hire a Nanny to take care of the kid ?

Okay, I will repeat again.

What ever the average family can do a wealthy person can do; child grows up, turn out great, maybe even president.

However an average family can't afford to do some of the more exotic stuff a wealthy family can do.

Does not have to be a Nanny, but it can be a Voice Coach, Piano Teacher, Tutor, Personal Trainer.

Traveling is a big plus, studies abroad. . .

[TJones]

Well, give me a top ten, and let me see if there is something I might not be able to do for MY kids, I want them to have every opportunity. I would just feel awful if I wasn't able to get them that new Ipod macronanoshishkabob.

[Pumapayam]

Well, give me a top ten, and let me see if there is something I might not be able to do for MY kids, I want them to have every opportunity. I would just feel awful if I wasn't able to get them that new Ipod macronanoshishkabob.

You just find a way to not agree with it anyways, I would raise my kids much differently and even still. Even still you'd say you could afford it anyways.

Here is an article that explains how kids can be raised at different income brackets; if you make more moeny, you are able to spend more on them.

Where does that more go too, better quality activities, food, clothes, technology etc.

And I am not talking about Ipod's and Wii's here.

[west20th]

Have we beaten this rich/poor debate to death yet?

[Pumapayam]

Have we beaten this rich/poor debate to death yet?

Nope, they just get offended when I say that men generally make more than women and that (2) men can provide more for their kids than (2) women.

People got wet diapers when I put this theory on the table.

[MidtownCoog]

I think I am catching a "women are inferior" cultural vibe here.

That crap might fly in Persia but it does not in America.

Just another case of how you can take a Persian out of Persia, but you can't take the Persian out of a Persian, huh?

No wonder y'all stick to yourselves.

[Pumapayam]

I think I am catching a "women are inferior" cultural vibe here.

Nope, I am not saying it, corporate america is. It is a known fact, and publicized in the news that woman make less then men do.

What country do you live in? . . . guess what, it happens in America.

[millennica]

You just find a way to not agree with it anyways, I would raise my kids much differently and even still. Even still you'd say you could afford it anyways.

Here is an article that explains how kids can be raised at different income brackets; if you make more moeny, you are able to spend more on them.

Where does that more go too, better quality activities, food, clothes, technology etc.

And I am not talking about Ipod's and Wii's here.

I don't think that anyone is contesting the fact that having money would enable parents to spend more money on their children. What's at issue in this discussion is whether or not spending more money on children even, if one excludes IPods and Wii's, is better for children and their development. It is clear from what you've written that you believe there is a relationship between raising children succesfully and spending more on them. The problem is that people disagree with you on this point because while we believe that having sufficient income for children's care and well-being is critical, spending more money to purchase better quality activities, food, clothes, technology etc, is not necessarily better for children's development. Those who are raising children and have raised children know that these things (material advantages) will not produce a better child who grows into a more balanced, productive, happier adult.

[Pumapayam]

It is clear from what you've written that you believe there is a relationship between raising children succesfully and spending more on them. The problem is that people disagree with you on this point because while we believe that having sufficient income for children's care and well-being is critical, spending more money to purchase better quality activities, food, clothes, technology etc, is not necessarily better for children's development. Those who are raising children and have raised children know that these things (material advantages) will not produce a better child who grows into a more balanced, productive, happier adult.

Exceptions noted and validated. This topic is just very open ended as there are too many variables to hold realisitic argument about how to raise kids and what's best for them. Each parent is unique and has different morals and ethics they abide by.

But men do make more money than woman. . . don't hate, appreciate!

[millennica]

Exceptions noted and validated. This topic is just very open ended as there are too many variables to hold realisitic argument about how to raise kids and what's best for them. Each parent is unique and has different morals and ethics they abide by.

But men do make more money than woman. . . don't hate, appreciate!

On that point we agree. Raising children is influenced by many things only one of which is money and it isn't clear exactly how money spent on children influences their development and well being. On average men make more money than women. I don't need to hate or appreciate because I happen to be an outlier, a woman who makes lots of money, more than many men at my level in my profession.

[Pumapayam]

On average men make more money than women.

Boy do we ever!

[millennica]

Boy do we ever!

Another example that sexism is alive and well. Thank goodness that I've managed to dodge the salary differential aspect of sexism.

[Pumapayam]

Another example that sexism is alive and well. Thank goodness that I've managed to dodge the salary differential aspect of sexism.

Okay, I was just teasing with that one. I am not sexist in anyway (don't kill the messenger here please). I am all for more women talking leadership positions in companies and bettering themselves.

Statistics are statistics, someone has to be below the other. At least women live longer then men do!

[musicman]

Another example that sexism is alive and well.

concur. millennica, thankfully most people don't have the sexist attitudes. i just surprises me when someone younger thinks that way and then tries to pass it off as teasing.

[Montrose1100]

Okay, I was just teasing with that one. I am not sexist in anyway (don't kill the messenger here please). I am all for more women talking leadership positions in companies and bettering themselves.

Statistics are statistics, someone has to be below the other. At least women live longer then men do!

Don't change your words... you believe so strongly that a gay couple (2 men) would make oh so much better parents then a straight or lesbian couple. Thats sexist, regardless of how many times you say "statistics".

[nmainguy]

Don't change your words... you believe so strongly that a gay couple (2 men) would make oh so much better parents then a straight or lesbian couple. Thats sexist, regardless of how many times you say "statistics".

From what I garner is that I, Puma and others aren't being sexist so much as we are being objective and factual. Typicaly men make more money than women. Many gay men make more money than straight men and straight and gay women. That isn't sexist; it's factual like it or not. It is of the making of a society we are responsible of whether it be a straight TJ and parrot; an ambiguous music or a gay me and others.

[millennica]

From what I garner is that I, Puma and others aren't being sexist so much as we are being objective and factual. Typicaly men make more money than women. Many gay men make more money than straight men and straight and gay women. That isn't sexist; it's factual like it or not. It is of the making of a society we are responsible of whether it be a straight TJ and parrot; an ambiguous music or a gay me and others.

When I commented that Puma's statement about men making more money than women was another manifestation of sexism, I wan't trying to imply that Puma was sexist for making the statment. It's clear that on average, men make more money that women; that can easily be confirmed. What I was saying was that women making less money than men is a societal manifestation of sexism. That clarification, notwithstanding, doesn't absolve Puma or mean that he hasn't made some sexist statements. As to whether he is sexist, I'll adopt a wait and see attitude because I need more evidence to reach a conclusion I'd be willing to stand by and defend.

[nmainguy]

When I commented that Puma's statement about men making more money than women was another manifestation of sexism, I wan't trying to imply that Puma was sexist for making the statment. It's clear that on average, men make more money that women; that can easily be confirmed. What I was saying was that women making less money than men is a societal manifestation of sexism. That clarification, notwithstanding, doesn't absolve Puma or mean that he hasn't made some sexist statements. As to whether he is sexist, I'll adopt a wait and see attitude because I need more evidence to reach a conclusion I'd be willing to stand by and defend.

I get that. All I, Puma and others have done is illustrate that men make more than women. It's not sexist. It's just factual. In addition, I am well aware women making less money than men is a societal manifestation of sexism. Believe it or not, it's something many men including me and my SO find despicible. Our ex-wives, daughters and sisters experience it on a daily basis. I can't imagine not having my arms around those I love in the face of those that would judge the validity of our family.

[Pumapayam]

Many gay men make more money than straight men and straight and gay women.

And I will add, even if we don't make more and possibly make a little less, the fact that we tend to not have kids and have a knack for smart investing (especially in formally depressed neighborhoods, like Greenwich Village and Montrose) we have more disposable income. Which again is why we do have the money to spend on luxury items and advertisers want that share of our money. This brings us back full circle on my original comment that we can invest that extra moeny in our kids.

It is of the making of a society we are responsible of whether it be a straight TJ and parrot; an ambiguous music or a gay me and others.

Could not agree with you more.

[moni]

And I will add, even if we don't make more and possibly make a little less, the fact that we tend to not have kids and have a knack for smart investing (especially in formally depressed neighborhoods, like Greenwich Village and Montrose) we have more disposable income. Which again is why we do have the money to spend on luxury items and advertisers want that share of our money. This brings us back full circle on my original comment that we can invest that extra moeny in our kids.

Could not agree with you more.

Well, Pumpayam, I have four children. My oldest daughter owns a chain of escrow companies in the Bay Area of California and as a matter of fact, established escrows in the manner of southern California, she was the first to introduce the complete third-party escrow, no attorney. She is a millionaire several times over and has been married several times, she always has the money so she can marry whomever she wants. My next child, a daughter makes nearly exactly the same as her husband. He is a big shot in the FAA and she is an international attorney, good with contracts. My next child is a daughter and she has her own real estate business, and it is in southern California and thriving. She has been married to the same guy for 27 years, but she has the license and the brains. My youngest child is a boy, he is a business owner and owns businesses in Houston and here in Deming. As far as income is concerned, my girls generally make more money than their guys, but it doesn't really matter, they are all happily married. My point is: What is your point?? I might add that the girls worked very hard to get to where they are, nobody gave them anything. Maybe you know the wrong kind of women?

[webdude]

Well, Pumpayam, I have four children. My oldest daughter owns a chain of escrow companies in the Bay Area of California and as a matter of fact, established escrows in the manner of southern California, she was the first to introduce the complete third-party escrow, no attorney. She is a millionaire several times over and has been married several times, she always has the money so she can marry whomever she wants. My next child, a daughter makes nearly exactly the same as her husband. He is a big shot in the FAA and she is an international attorney, good with contracts. My next child is a daughter and she has her own real estate business, and it is in southern California and thriving. She has been married to the same guy for 27 years, but she has the license and the brains. My youngest child is a boy, he is a business owner and owns businesses in Houston and here in Deming. As far as income is concerned, my girls generally make more money than their guys, but it doesn't really matter, they are all happily married. My point is: What is your point?? I might add that the girls worked very hard to get to where they are, nobody gave them anything. Maybe you know the wrong kind of women?

The point is men make more than women in general. Doesn't mean that ALL men make more money than women. Isn't that pretty obvious?

[moni]

The point is men make more than women in general. Doesn't mean that ALL men make more money than women. Isn't that pretty obvious?

Yes that is obvious. Especially if you are talking about the poor little restaurant servers and baby sitters, housewives and clerks. There is nothing wrong with any of this if women don't care about careers or about making money. Some women prefer for their guys to make the money and to take care of things. My son's wife is like that, she is Japanese, well educated, but prefers to take a back seat. Women have to be ambitious and they have to educate themselves if they plan to compete with men. They also have to know their strenghs and weaknesses. I have granddaughters who attend universities and work also in order to get to where they want to be. I think, if men and women are equally ignorant, then the man will make more money, it is basically a man's world. My girls were really driven and it looks as if my granddaughters will be too. Makes a difference on how badly the women want something. My daughters always tell me "people treat you better when you have money". Personally, I never had that much. Teachers and Nurses just work very hard and don't get much money. My girls wouldn't settle for that. I know they never want to be as "poor" as I was.

[Pumapayam]

Maybe you know the wrong kind of women?

No moni, there are exceptions, and your kids are an excellent examples of that, but like I mentioned, and what i was refering to, is generally, men have the advantage to make a better income than women, which is why I think (2) men . . .

[KinkaidAlum]

Yes that is obvious. Especially if you are talking about the poor little restaurant servers and baby sitters, housewives and clerks. There is nothing wrong with any of this if women don't care about careers or about making money. Some women prefer for their guys to make the money and to take care of things. My son's wife is like that, she is Japanese, well educated, but prefers to take a back seat. Women have to be ambitious and they have to educate themselves if they plan to compete with men. They also have to know their strenghs and weaknesses. I have granddaughters who attend universities and work also in order to get to where they want to be. I think, if men and women are equally ignorant, then the man will make more money, it is basically a man's world. My girls were really driven and it looks as if my granddaughters will be too. Makes a difference on how badly the women want something. My daughters always tell me "people treat you better when you have money". Personally, I never had that much. Teachers and Nurses just work very hard and don't get much money. My girls wouldn't settle for that. I know they never want to be as "poor" as I was.

Actually, the facts are much more depressing.

MEN make more MONEY than WOMEN for the same types of employment.

It's still also true that men often receive larger bonuses too with a nod to the "traditional" past in that men are still perceived to be the major bread winners for families despite the rise in female headed households.

[nmainguy]

She is a millionaire several times over and has been married several times...

Ah! A disfunctional millionaire! How proud you must be!

Back on topic, could you explain to some of our more challanged posters how gays can have children?

[moni]

Ah! A disfunctional millionaire! How proud you must be!

Back on topic, could you explain to some of our more challanged posters how gays can have children?

HA! Everybody is dysfunctional, gay or no. Adopt, Adopt, Adopt. Make lots of children happy.

[Pumapayam]

HA! Everybody is dysfunctional, gay or no. Adopt, Adopt, Adopt. Make lots of children happy.

It's almost like caffiene is talking.

[houstonmacbro]

HA! Everybody is dysfunctional, gay or no. Adopt, Adopt, Adopt. Make lots of children happy.

I am a big fan of adoption (although I have not taken the plunge yet). I think it makes sense for a lot of reasons, none more important than the fact that kids need parents (gay, strait, black, white ... or Persian). :-)