scary new changes in the earth's eco-system

[TJones]

Here we go macbro, there is new found hope for us all.

http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570

[TJones]

Now, THIS is what I am talking about. The Earth CAN and DOES and WILL, heal itself.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070926/sc_af...BW32CZECpFxieAA

[RedScare]

TJ, that article is not an example of the earth healing itself. It is a proposal for human intervention to offset the effects of global warming...similar to a doctor performing surgery on a patient as opposed to letting the patient heal on his own.

[TJones]

This direct quote is in the second paragraph.

"Emergency treatment could come from stimulating the Earth's capacity to cure itself."

I have said in an earlier post here that the Earth is a "living breathing thing". It is my belief that the Earth gets sick at times and eventually heals itself. These scientist want to try something to stimulate the Earth's natural abilities. So, I will agree, they are acting like doctors, but they do expect the patient to recover on it's own.

[Jax]

You kind of took that quote out of context.

That article is about "sowing the world's oceans with thousands, perhaps millions, of giant vertical pipes 100-to-200 meters deep". What part of millions of giant vertical pipes makes you think the Earth is naturally healing itself??

The article claims that the earth will not be able to heal itself because natural cycles have been thrown off balance by global warming. So it claims that some massive project to put pipes in the ocean would simulate the Earth's natural capacity to heal itself. This doesn't mean the Earth is going to heal on it's own...

Unless the earth will spontaneously sprout giant aquatic pipes!

[houstonmacbro]

If these ain't scary I don't know what is:

Man With Flesh Eating Bacteria Allowed to Go Home

http://www.click2houston.com/news/14401936/detail.html?subid=10100242

Student Treated for MRSA

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-whdst...0,2191585.story

Hey, this is fun right?

... dodge the weather (G4 hurricanes, tornadoes out of nowhere, melting polar caps and other glaciers around the world, not to mention increases in volcanic activity), fires in California, rogue waves around the world, the deadly heat, the predicted colder-than-normal winter this year, the drying out of the American southeast ("Anyone try to order a glass of water in Atlanta lately?", and now viruses and super bugs that are predicted to be more deadly than AIDS.

Guess this is just earth as we know it.

[TJones]

Check your history Macbro, these things have always been occurring, you just have the internet and better scientific toys to monitor them better now. Polio and Smallpox were plaques until we found a vaccine.

Flesh eating bacteria wasn't caused by global wraming, c'mon chief. You don't go into Galveston Bay with open wounds that are already infected ! ! ?? A friend of my Dad's died back in the 80's from the same bacteria after getting stabbed by a fish inside of another fish he had caught on the Texas City dike. Only took about 48 hours though. The gentleman in your story was very lucky, he only had a 50/50 chance.

Let's see, we had a drought in Texas about 5 years or so ago, I remember Lake Travis looking EXACTLY like the lakes in Georgia, we recovered, as will Georgia.

Fires ? I can't remember ONCE in the past 10 years, probably longer, where California hasn't had out of control blazes, fueled by the Santa Ana's.

Increase in Volcanic activity ? You really want to try and link THAT to global warming ? I'll let you take that one back if you want.

[houstonmacbro]

I said scary ... nothing about global warming in this post.And yes, some of these things occur routinely, but I dare say I (nor you, but I don't have your eyes) have never seen fires like this in California before. I do not recall 1M people being pushed out because of fires ... at least not in my recollection.I do not recall the drought you mention but I will take your word for it.Oh yeah, and these viruses are possibly NOT new, but they are more deadly than they were because we've been over-using (abusing?) antibiotics. Everytime someone goes to the doc for a cough or cold they want some kinda AB. Now ... I mean SCARY changes in the earth's eco system, and I think those things count as scary. Like I said, if they ain't scary to you, so be it.That ish is scary to me (more scary than Bin Laden's gonna get you but that is another topic for politics).

From Wikipedia (take it with a grain of salt):

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently calculated that MRSA is responsible for 94,000 serious infections and nearly 19,000 deaths per year in the United States. These numbers would make MRSA responsible for more deaths each year than AIDS.[12]

[TJones]

It has come to light within the past few hours that the California fires may be the work of a couple of Arsonists, yes, plural. The police apparently killed one of them a couple of days ago after he was caught and ran from the police and tried to run them over, another in a different part of town, has been captured and is being questioned and his home being searched as I write this.

Ok, SCARY changes then, have it your way. LOL!

[houstonmacbro]

It has come to light within the past few hours that the California fires may be the work of a couple of Arsonists, yes, plural. The police apparently killed one of them a couple of days ago after he was caught and ran from the police and tried to run them over, another in a different part of town, has been captured and is being questioned and his home being searched as I write this.

Ok, SCARY changes then, have it your way. LOL!

I wouldn't doubt there are copycat arsonists. However, I do not believe the majority of the fires are the result of arsonists. I could be wrong.

Nevertheless, I think we are watching (in HD clarity) our world changing before our eyes. Some of us refuse to believe what is happening. Some of us are alarmist who see it. Some of us don't care (and just reach for the remote to watch Dancing With the Stars).

Anyhow, it's nothing to come to blows over.

[TJones]

I wouldn't doubt there are copycat arsonists. However, I do not believe the majority of the fires are the result of arsonists. I could be wrong.

Nevertheless, I think we are watching (in HD clarity) our world changing before our eyes. Some of us refuse to believe what is happening. Some of us are alarmist who see it. Some of us don't care (and just reach for the remote to watch Dancing With the Stars).

Anyhow, it's nothing to come to blows over.

Just so you are clear on where I stand. I do believe there are some changes occurring, I DO NOT believe that they are man-made. I believe the Earth is just in a transition period, but nothing that is going to effect the way you are currently living, or how our children will live, or their children's children will live. There were iceages and severe warming periods waaaaaayyyyyy before either of us were a glint in our fathers' eye. The Earth itself tells us how certain periods in time were hotter or colder, way before Grog discovered fire, and even further before the first smokestack came upon the horizon. Quit losing sleep over things of which you have no control, and just keep doing your what you feel is your part for the enviroment.

Funny you should reference "HD clarity", you ever notice how Discovery HD has a whole lot of SNOW related shows, especially 1080*, they aren't showing it because "it may be the last time you get to see it." They show it because there is an abundance of it, and that people need to get out more and take a look at it firsthand.

[houstonmacbro]

I think you're right on some points. Yes, the earth has gone through these things before (but we were not here). The fact that it is happening NOW is serious because we are here now.

I also think that some of the things that are happening (and so I am clear, I am not talking about global warming specifically, but all manner of ecological problems from drought, to floods, to super storms, to bacteriological problems) are happening at an alarming and increasingly dangerous level.

MRSA is killing more people in the USA than the 'worst' virus we thought previously (HIV/AIDS). That situation from MRSA and other diseases are happening because of what we are doing medically. I hate to think of what comes next (because as we know, there is always a 'next').

[TJones]

People are dying from MSRA because they don't take care of themselves. Fastfood with chemical enhancers, hyper hydrogenated and poly saturated fats and trans fats have basically changed the chemical make ups in our bodies in the last 30 years and weakened our immune systems. There are additives in EVERYTHING we eat. I am sure there are things (chemicals) that have seeped into our drinking water, and though the levels are so minute that they won't kill you, they have to do SOMETHING to our bodies, because they aren't naturally supposed to be there. I would take an open wound on my body VERY seriously, and would make every effort to heal it as fast as possible. When I got stabbed back in 2000, I did not go out of the house for 3 months, I literally laid on the couch while the wound healed..

The guy in your story admitted that he was a diabetic and already had infected wounds, so he is gonna take a chance on going into Galveston Bay for a quick dip, he is a gambler ? No thank you, he probably thought a little neo-sporin was gonna fix that right up.

[bruce_oneal]

Fastfood with chemical enhancers, hyper hydrogenated and poly saturated fats and trans fats have basically changed the chemical make ups in our bodies in the last 30 years and weakened our immune systems. There are additives in EVERYTHING we eat. I am sure there are things (chemicals) that have seeped into our drinking water, and though the levels are so minute that they won't kill you, they have to do SOMETHING to our bodies, because they aren't naturally supposed to be there. I would take an open wound on my body VERY seriously, and would make every effort to heal it as fast as possible.

Agreed.

[Subdude]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but with respect to how mankind should --or should not-- react to theorized climate change, is it very important whether the potential change is man-made or not? After all, if your house were to catch fire, you wouldn't base your reaction on whether the fire was caused by natural lightning or was man-made by an arsonist. The potential outcome is the issue, not the theoretical cause.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Should have caught 20/20 last weekend. They pretty much addressed a lot of the arguments that continue to go on here.

Link to 20/20 episode summary

[houstonmacbro]

Interesting.

[TJones]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but with respect to how mankind should --or should not-- react to theorized climate change, is it very important whether the potential change is man-made or not? After all, if your house were to catch fire, you wouldn't base your reaction on whether the fire was caused by natural lightning or was man-made by an arsonist. The potential outcome is the issue, not the theoretical cause.

Subdude, every firefighter will tell you that slash and burn to clear out dead brush and undercover is essential in preventing forest fires. Enviromental extremists have drasitaclly reduced the amount of slash and burn being done in California in the last 20 years and now here we are with the largest wildfires we've ever known in California. So, you can blame Arsonists AND enviromentalists for being a large part of the problem, so do you think that NOT doing neccessary clearing would be a manmade problem ?

[crunchtastic]

In reading through some of the latest industry news (disclosure: I work for an AIG company, but not in property/casualty) it occurs to me that many people don't realize when they debate climate change or not, man made or not, 'bad' science, etc, is that the global insurance industry acknowledges straight up that climate change is at least in part man made, is occuring, and that future, more rapid and more devastating weather is on the way. And while we can believe whatever we want, the economic reality of new risk management is going to hit us all (who buy insurance) in the pocketbook as the business finds new ways around new and increased risks. All that modeling costs money, the regulatory environment is tightening, etc. (I'll save my rant on insurance company profits, deceptive trade practice and price gouging for later..)

Big industry meeting was held about a week ago on the topic and there were some pretty interesting reports from NASA, various academics, etc. They're bite-size for laymen.

PDFs are located at the bottom of the page through this link:

http://www.iii.org/media/met/cmf/2007cmf/

[houstonmacbro]

Okay, here is something ... not necessarily global warming related, but it could be considered 'scary new changes in the earth's eco-system' as it's a new disease (if proven). I believe there is some truth to it.

CDC to make call on mystery skin disease

By ALEXIS GRANT

Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

A federal health agency on Wednesday launched a study into an unexplained skin disorder that causes a crawling sensation and lesions that won't heal, the first attempt to determine whether Morgellons is a legitimate illness or caused by the patient's imagination.

Dr. Michele Pearson, principal investigator for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, would not go so far as to acknowledge that the illness is real, but said the agency has received enough inquiries about it during the past year that it deserves to be considered, and hopefully explained.

"I'm not so concerned with the label," Pearson said. "Clearly the suffering that these patients are experiencing is real."

Many families in Houston are self-diagnosed with the condition, making the area a Morgellons hot spot, according to the Morgellons Research Foundation, a nonprofit group that has become the primary source of information about the disorder.

SIGNS OF DISEASE

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is beginning to study Morgellons, an illness with the following symptoms:

[TJones]

Wonder how Algore will explain this ?

CHINA BATTLES COLDEST WINTER IN 100 YEARS!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080204/lf_nm_...hina_weather_dc

[houstonmacbro]

From what I understand about global warming, not every place is going to be warmer. However, the weather will be more severe and abnormal all over (which I see happening).

[BryanS]

The science is in. Global warming is real. And we are a part of the problem. If you look back through the history of warming/cooling (ice age) cycles of the earth, you'll see that our "heating period" over the past 100 years, in terms of CO2 emissions, is higher than at any other point in the history of the world, escalating in an exponential, off-the-chart, escape velocity fashion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png

Since the Industrial Revolution, circa 1800, the burning of fossil fuels has caused a dramatic increase of CO₂ in the atmosphere, reaching levels unprecedented in the last 400 thousand years. This increase has been implicated as a primary cause of global warming.

The newer cores taken by the EPICA team go back farther, to 650,000 years that show the same thing. There is data from further back than that, and it is hoped eventually they can drill cores that go back 1.5 million years.

Watch the movie. Even if you don't agree with it... watch it. If you don't agree with his politics - that's fine. But watch the movie to see where your "opponent" is coming from. You can learn a lot. Freak weather events (even snow storms), can be symptoms of larger (global warming) problems. You can't look at one event; you have to look at the aggregate over decades, centuries.

In my view, it is futile to debate this or pontificate that climate scientists are wrong about this. They are the experts; they have advanced degrees in the matter, and have been studying this problem for decades. If you're not a doctor, you wouldn't operate on yourself. If you're not a pilot, you wouldn't think about flying a plane. If you're not a lawyer, you wouldn't represent yourself in a serious court case. Of course... in all these cases... you could "do it yourself" ... but you'd be a fool. It's time to stop fooling ourselves and deal with the reality of the matter.

[Jax]

Wonder how Algore will explain this ?

Leave Al out of this. He's a spokesman, not a scientist. If you want an answer, ask a scientist.

HINT: NASA is a good place to start.

[musicman]

Leave Al out of this. He's a spokesman, not a scientist.

When he invented the internet, what was he?

[Jax]

When he invented the internet, what was he?

Are you implying that Al Gore was a computer scientist? I think you need to read up on your history a bit. Ever heard of the "High Performance Computing and Communication Act"?

When he took the initiative to help create the internet, he was a politician, not a scientist.

He helped develop policy which was instrumental in the creation of the internet.

If I wanted to know how the internet works from a technical standpoint, I'd as a computer scientist/engineer not Al Gore. If I wanted to know how government policy effected the emergence of the internet as we know it (as a public network rather than a military/governmental/research network), I might consider asking Al Gore.

[musicman]

Are you implying that Al Gore was a computer scientist?

LOL no, i'm implying he's neither a scientist nor a good spokeman.

do you realize the net was created before 1991?

[Jax]

LOL no, i'm implying he's neither a scientist nor a good spokeman.

Then why when I said not to ask Gore because he is not a scientist, you asked me ,

When he [Gore] invented the internet, what was he?

I don't quite understand the purpose of this question, unless you're just trying to be annoying.

do you realize the net was created before 1991?

Of course, but the internet as we know it did not exist, and it was not accessible by the average person.

When I started using the internet in 1995 (I was in grade 8) I remember dialing up with a text based Telnet type client to connect and a text based browser called "Gopher". The web existed back then but it was still in its infancy, and most people (including my parents, business owners) didn't have email addresses or access to email for that matter. I remember getting my dad hooked up to the internet once PPP went mainstream and you didn't have to use an awful text based terminal type connection.

Anyways, my point is in 1995 the internet was still fairly primitive. It's hard for me to realize how it must have been before 1991. Most likely it was fairly limited to government and university use.

[musicman]

Then why when I said not to ask Gore because he is not a scientist, you asked me ,

if you consider someone who claims to have invented the internet when they didn't a good spokeperson, so be it. i think others would disagree.

When he [Gore] invented the internet, what was he?

Jax take a deep breath. he didn't invent the internet.

Of course, but the internet as we know it did not exist, and it was not accessible by the average person.

i was able to access the internet in the 80's via a modem. friends also were able to access the net. now if you're talking the 60's, then i can see how it wasn't accessible by the average person.

[Jax]

if you consider someone who claims to have invented the internet when they didn't a good spokeperson, so be it. i think others would disagree.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but I do know that he never claimed to have invented the internet. He claimed to have taken the initiative that helped create the internet as we know through his work on the "High Performance Computing and Communication Act". Check your facts.

Jax take a deep breath. he didn't invent the internet.

Are you trying to make it look like I said he created the internet? I was quoting YOU! Your post makes it look like I said something that I didn't say (the quoted part of it)!

i was able to access the internet in the 80's via a modem. friends also were able to access the net. now if you're talking the 60's, then i can see how it wasn't accessible by the average person.

And again the internet in the 80s was not the same as the internet the internet today. It was not as accessible as you think it was. There was no World Wide Web, etc. Most companies didn't even use email until the mid 90s. Maybe you're remembering using a BBS in the 80s (a dial up local area network with discussion boards and stuff). Those were much more popular and accessible to the average person in the 80s than the internet was. The modern domain name system wasn't even INVENTED until November 1983. And if you were one of the few using the internet back when it was mainly a educational/government network, good for you, but that is still sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

My point is, the internet in the mid/late 90s was a huge leap forward from what the internet was in the 80s, and the "High Performance Computing and Communication Act" was a huge part of that, which Gore was involved in. No one person created the internet, or claimed to create the internet.

I think the urban legend about Gore creating the internet came from a press misquote of him.

Anyways, let's get this back on track. My original point was if we have questions about the Earth's climate, let's ask climatologists and leave Al Gore out of this. I could possibly even contact some climate researchers at Rice and try to find an answer to the question about the climate anomaly in China, if anybody is interested... although it seems like most of you are more into the politics than the science.