Earth Quest Adventures

[Soapboxmom]

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/news/earthquest-sinkhole-for-residents-taxes/article_f159b45f-8f68-5a4f-8372-7c78fd3009ee.html

[Mister X]

“We’re going to let our developer speak for the project from now on.”

That's probably not a bad idea. Some people (mostly the internet community) are taking their frustrations of the project's delay and the Marlin/Atlantis bankruptcy out on Frank McCrady and the EMCID board. Instead of people focusing on the project's ACTUAL development, all the attention right now is on the EMCID. This thing has to play itself out in the bankruptcy court for awhile and their isn't much the EMCID board can do or say right now anyway - at least until Contour makes a public statement about the project or the land ownership details are made official.

Of coarse, that won't stop the daily barrage of articles from that ONE community newspaper columnist from reporting that there is nothing new to report. I've read everyone of those articles and I have never seen one good reason to automatically give their suggestions of wrong-doing any more credibility than the ACTUAL words that come out the the mouths of the EMCID board members themselves. People are always looking for a scapegoat and the EMCID has really set themselves up to be just that.

The latest town hall meeting (about 2 weeks ago) was video recorded. It looked like a packed crowd. There were about 6 or 7 people in the audience asking questions and seemed to be very concerned about the EMCID board's decisions, some acted quite angry. But at the end of the meeting one person showed her support for the project and the efforts of the EMCID to keep the project alive and moving forward - the entire crowd then busted out in applause. This suggest to me that the majority of the people still want this project to happen. It also suggest to me that the actual community where the park will hopefully be located one day is not nearly as quick to judge a situation based on suggestion, innuendo and incomplete data as the internet community is.

[Soapboxmom]

What people want is immaterial. There never was and likely never will be any funding for this clunker such as it is. Don Holbrook and his gang go from town to town selling ideas that will never be funded and come to fruition. The taxpayers and bank are going to take a veritable bloodbath. This bunch behind this fiasco lived the lifestyle of the rich and famous off of the taxpayers dime. It appears the authorities will now have to step in and clean up Frank McCrady's mess.

[Mister X]

I don't agree with you that what people want is immaterial. It is what drives everything. The community wants this project and has been willing to allow the EMCID to spend money pursuing it for some time now. And judging by the reaction of the vast majority of that last town hall meeting, they STILL want the EMCID to pursue EQ. GOOD!

If this project doesn't happen another one will. Houston is too great a market to go without a project like this forever. Look at the city right now. There are building cranes everywhere. Houston's economy is on the mend (big time) and it is only a matter of time before someone taps this untapped market.

[TheNiche]

If this project doesn't happen another one will. Houston is too great a market to go without a project like this forever. Look at the city right now. There are building cranes everywhere. Houston's economy is on the mend (big time) and it is only a matter of time before someone taps this untapped market.

If it will happen with or without the EMCID, then why should the EMCID be involved?

[Mister X]

When did I ever say that the emcid SHOULD be involved? But, if the emcid wants to encourage theme park developers to come and take over the EQ project why would anyone want to stop them?

[TheNiche]

Mister X, I think that I could tell you that money was embezzled to finance a string of ritualistic baby killings and you'd give them a pass on it so long as they keep telling you that a theme park is on its way.

Has it occurred to you that if a theme park of this scale is justified elsewhere in our region without any subsidy, that keeping this idea alive would tend to crowd out other prospective market entrants? Seriously, another theme park developer would have to spend several years and many millions of dollars in planning and due diligence to get to a point where the idea is financable, but why would they do that if there's even a 20% possibility that a competitor could swoop in, restart EQ, and get a jump on the new project?

Its my opinion that the ineptitude and corruption associated with this site have tainted the deal. Nobody should want to get involved with it (except possibly the DA's office). It's time to pull the plug on this one, to let the market sort it out, and to allow someone else the incentive to try a different site.

[Mister X]

Mister X, I think that I could tell you that money was embezzled to finance a string of ritualistic baby killings and you'd give them a pass on it so long as they keep telling you that a theme park is on its way. Has it occurred to you that if a theme park of this scale is justified elsewhere in our region without any subsidy, that keeping this idea alive would tend to crowd out other prospective market entrants? Seriously, another theme park developer would have to spend several years and many millions of dollars in planning and due diligence to get to a point where the idea is financable, but why would they do that if there's even a 20% possibility that a competitor could swoop in, restart EQ, and get a jump on the new project? Its my opinion that the ineptitude and corruption associated with this site have tainted the deal. Nobody should want to get involved with it (except possibly the DA's office). It's time to pull the plug on this one, to let the market sort it out, and to allow someone else the incentive to try a different site.

What difference does it make to you what I give people pass on? Seriously, your interest in my opinion is flattering and I'm happy to give you as much as you can handle - at least until one of us or ALL of us gets shut down. I'm sure the mods are tired of this.

But yes - since you are so concerned with my opinion, from the first day that EarthQuest was announced I thought that the project might discourage other potential theme park projects in the region, but as of today, I still think this project has plenty of potential and viability. I think EQ is still the best chance Houston has to have a QUALITY theme park in the near future, so I'm not ready to give up on it just yet. Yes, in a best case scenario EQ is still at least 18 months from groundbreaking and probably more. But they have still made progress since the project was first announced. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely to me and there is no reason to automatically assume that an unannounced, brand new project in another part of the Houston area would break ground any quicker than EQ might at this point. At least EQ has been designed, that alone is at least 2 years of work that is already done, supposedly. And according to Frank McCrady there are still other unnamed developers who are willing to take over the project if Contour does not. At the moment EQ is the only game in town. Making guesses as to what other similar entities MAY have plans in Houston is futile.

Another reason I'm not ready to give up on EQ just yet is that from everything I have observed and from what I already know about the theme park industry, projects on the scale of EarthQuest are extremely rare. Houston IS ripe for theme park development, but one of the reasons I support the EQ project so strongly is that the master plan of this particular theme park and resort is exceptional. Perfect location, proximity to Houston, forested, green backdrop. Unlike AstroWorld, EQ has the makings of a truly great theme park and destination resort complete with room to expand and a community that not only embraces it (as was evident at the last town hall meeting) but has allowed it's Improvement District Authority to thoroughly pursue it for years (although I admit that could always change). A lot of communities in Houston might discourage a theme park and resort from being built in any capacity.

Based on anything I've read so far, and considering the sources and baggage, I don't think the reason that EQ hasn't broke ground is because of any particular thing the EMCID did wrong - certainly not deliberately. And I really do think the root cause of a lack of investors has been mainly due to an unstable economy. Houston is probably the best location to build a theme park right now in America, but obviously it is still a risk. The EMCID and the community knew that back in 2007, and still thought the project was worth pursuing.

Don't agree? Don't care. Why do you care so much what I think anyway? Nevermind, it's pretty obvious that your only real interest in thread is that you enjoy a good pissing match (I'm familiar with your contributions here at HAIF).

[RedScare]

EarthQuest is 'busted', according to the County Judge.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/news/earthquest-sinkhole-for-residents-taxes/article_f159b45f-8f68-5a4f-8372-7c78fd3009ee.html

EarthQuest is “busted,” Sadler said. “I’ve been following this for five years; I could have written this a year ago. Hell, enough is enough. It’s unbelievable.”

Sadler said he also has advised McCrady to quit spending money on EarthQuest until an investment banker steps forward.

He also has sent some information regarding EarthQuest to the Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office, he said.

[Mister X]

More from that same article - "Sadler concludes his letter by advising McCrady “that I would not continue advocating this project or addressing the media that ‘this project will happen’ unless and until the above two questions can be answered with clarity and with certain assurances.”

It doesn't sound to me like he knows what is going on at all. "Busted" sounds like just another opinion from someone that has more questions than answers.

According to Frank McCrady at the last town meeting 2 weeks ago, Contour Entertainment is ready to take over the project and several other developers are willing to come in if Contour does not. Frank McCrady has been working a lot closer to the project than the county judge. The county judge remarks sound more like opinion to me than Frank McCradys.

But, I 'advise' you to believe who ever you want - and so will I.

[LarryDierker]

I hope earthquest goes away soon. It's too far away for me to enjoy regularly.

I'm still praying for a clone of Astroworld/waterworld to fall from the sky right in it's old location.

[TheNiche]

What difference does it make to you what I give people pass on? Seriously, your interest in my opinion is flattering and I'm happy to give you as much as you can handle - at least until one of us or ALL of us gets shut down. I'm sure the mods are tired of this.

But yes - since you are so concerned with my opinion, from the first day that EarthQuest was announced I thought that the project might discourage other potential theme park projects in the region, but as of today, I still think this project has plenty of potential and viability. I think EQ is still the best chance Houston has to have a QUALITY theme park in the near future, so I'm not ready to give up on it just yet. Yes, in a best case scenario EQ is still at least 18 months from groundbreaking and probably more. But they have still made progress since the project was first announced. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely to me and there is no reason to automatically assume that an unannounced, brand new project in another part of the Houston area would break ground any quicker than EQ might at this point. At least EQ has been designed, that alone is at least 2 years of work that is already done, supposedly. And according to Frank McCrady there are still other unnamed developers who are willing to take over the project if Contour does not. At the moment EQ is the only game in town. Making guesses as to what other similar entities MAY have plans in Houston is futile.

Another reason I'm not ready to give up on EQ just yet is that from everything I have observed and from what I already know about the theme park industry, projects on the scale of EarthQuest are extremely rare. Houston IS ripe for theme park development, but one of the reasons I support the EQ project so strongly is that the master plan of this particular theme park and resort is exceptional. Perfect location, proximity to Houston, forested, green backdrop. Unlike AstroWorld, EQ has the makings of a truly great theme park and destination resort complete with room to expand and a community that not only embraces it (as was evident at the last town hall meeting) but has allowed it's Improvement District Authority to thoroughly pursue it for years (although I admit that could always change). A lot of communities in Houston might discourage a theme park and resort from being built in any capacity.

Based on anything I've read so far, and considering the sources and baggage, I don't think the reason that EQ hasn't broke ground is because of any particular thing the EMCID did wrong - certainly not deliberately. And I really do think the root cause of a lack of investors has been mainly due to an unstable economy. Houston is probably the best location to build a theme park right now in America, but obviously it is still a risk. The EMCID and the community knew that back in 2007, and still thought the project was worth pursuing.

Don't agree? Don't care. Why do you care so much what I think anyway? Nevermind, it's pretty obvious that your only real interest in thread is that you enjoy a good pissing match (I'm familiar with your contributions here at HAIF).

I'm not in a pissing match with you. You're a foil, that is all. The more that I or others say to expose the lost cause, the more you respond with that illuminates the absurd intellectual dishonesty that is necessary to continue to believe in it. You're on our team, whether you're ready to acknowledge it or not.

It would seem that McCrady is going to let the prospective developer talk about the project from here on out. I'm curious to see how long it'll be before anything further is mentioned about the project. FWIW, though, I would agree with you that this was probably one of very few plausible sites for a theme park of this scale in the Houston region; it's a shame that it has been so thoroughly tainted.

[bachanon]

i saw this picture and thought of this thread. (...........just a little humor)

[Mister X]

I'm not in a pissing match with you. You're a foil, that is all. The more that I or others say to expose the lost cause, the more you respond with that illuminates the absurd intellectual dishonesty that is necessary to continue to believe in it. You're on our team, whether you're ready to acknowledge it or not.

It would seem that McCrady is going to let the prospective developer talk about the project from here on out. I'm curious to see how long it'll be before anything further is mentioned about the project. FWIW, though, I would agree with you that this was probably one of very few plausible sites for a theme park of this scale in the Houston region; it's a shame that it has been so thoroughly tainted.

You just won't get it. Maybe we are on the same team (although you really don't seem like the kind of person that has any real interest in theme parks to me) but you, me and soapmom are certainly doing our part in keeping this topic alive. Dead projects usually don't get this kind of attention. As someone who wants to see this project come to fruition, I find some comfort in the fact that people are still talking about it. I would be a lot more concerned about EQ's chances right now if no one was talking about it - so thanks for helping keep this thread alive.

It's obvious from this and other threads you have no problem making some rather large leaps of assumption based inferred accusations. My opinions on this project are based on everything I've read about it (questionable sources and all) and from what I observed and heard at the EMCID town meetings. I refuse to base my opinions exclusively on reports from people that don't have the full story. This is a pretty complex story right now and not all sides have been heard from - how can anyone claim to know the outcome of this when the story is still being written?

The closest person to this project said as little as 3 weeks ago in a public town meeting forum that the project was still being pursued. If you want to continue to believe that this project is a lost cause go right ahead. I'm not sure exactly why someone would keep following what they believe is a lost cause so passionately, but its your life. Once I consider an idea, project or anything a lost cause I would probably lose interest pretty quick. I don't consider EQ a lost cause, and that is why I keep posting here. What possible reason could you have for posting here unless it just about getting the last word? But whatever, it is what it is. And there is no denying it.

[TheNiche]

I refuse to base my opinions exclusively on reports from people that don't have the full story. This is a pretty complex story right now and not all sides have been heard from - how can anyone claim to know the outcome of this when the story is still being written?

There's been speculation for decades that Disney has been buying up land in this place or that place in the outskirts of the Houston area for a major theme park. Since they haven't commented, there's obviously hope and you should be talking it up...right, Mister X? I mean, the story hasn't been written yet. And after that, there'll be commercial fights to Mercury launched from a platform just off of Galveston (with some economic development funding routed that way), or so I hear; and since I'm starting that rumor, I'm the closest person to it...and so you should take it completely seriously and start talking about it incessantly, too, even if the FAA, NASA, or a federal judge determines that it is outlandish, absurd, or a lost cause.

[Pleak]

There's been speculation for decades that Disney has been buying up land in this place or that place in the outskirts of the Houston area for a major theme park. Since they haven't commented, there's obviously hope and you should be talking it up...right, Mister X? I mean, the story hasn't been written yet. And after that, there'll be commercial fights to Mercury launched from a platform just off of Galveston (with some economic development funding routed that way), or so I hear; and since I'm starting that rumor, I'm the closest person to it...and so you should take it completely seriously and start talking about it incessantly, too, even if the FAA, NASA, or a federal judge determines that it is outlandish, absurd, or a lost cause.

I am forming the FFEGCID (Far-Far East Galveston County Improvement District) and I need to be in on this plan to fly to Mercury. I think there is going to be a LOT of research needed into this that I will gladly perform - so I of course will need a healthy stipend and all expenses paid.

[Mister X]

There's been speculation for decades that Disney has been buying up land in this place or that place in the outskirts of the Houston area for a major theme park. Since they haven't commented, there's obviously hope and you should be talking it up...right, Mister X? I mean, the story hasn't been written yet. And after that, there'll be commercial fights to Mercury launched from a platform just off of Galveston (with some economic development funding routed that way), or so I hear; and since I'm starting that rumor, I'm the closest person to it...and so you should take it completely seriously and start talking about it incessantly, too, even if the FAA, NASA, or a federal judge determines that it is outlandish, absurd, or a lost cause.

Now YOU are the comic foil. Thanks for supplying more evidence that your interest in the topic of this thread is limited to what MY opinion is. Your last post had little to do with the actual project and everything to do about what Mr X. would do - O.K.

As for those other projects, bring me several years worth of articles, town meetings, extensive media coverage, commitments from Improvement Districts, detailed plans, websites, millions of dollars of investments, people with credentials like Don Lessum backing the project, campaigns to shut them down by angry citizens, a thread at HAIF and at least 5 other forums that have been going strong for over 5 years with no signs of letting up and all the other evidence that the Earthquest project has to back it up including the fact that theme park development typically takes at least 8 years to develop anyway and let's talk.

I think there is little doubt that Earthquest is a real project. Now I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension skills or if you are even bothering to read anything before commenting. EarthQuest moved out rumor territory about 5 years ago. It's future is certainly not set in stone at this point but some judge recommending that the project should not be advocated in the media until some questions are answered with some assurance is not the same as that weird scenario you dreamed up.

[TheNiche]

Mr. X, The difference between my laughably exaggerated commentary and yours is intent. I was trying to be funny, and I used you to entertain my audience, which is not you.

[Houston19514]

Thanks to Mister X for giving TheNiche the opportunity to entertain himself. ;-)

[Mister X]

Mr. X, The difference between my laughably exaggerated commentary and yours is intent. I was trying to be funny, and I used you to entertain my audience, which is not you.

In all honesty, the above sounds like what someone who can't support his original position (whatever that was) would say. But I'll be big about it and just let this one slide so you can save some face. I guess 13,000+ postings ought to be worth SOME respect around here. Yes, folks, all this time Niche was entertaining you. But as his loyal 'audience' you already knew that. Right?

Niche, I think I can safely say at this point, that the REAL difference between you and me as far as this topic is concerned is that I post on this thread because I am sincerely interested in the EarthQuest project. And YOU post here because of ME. I have no doubt that if I stop posting here, you would too. I don't mind. It's flattering that my opinion means so much to you. So please, "use me", I LOVE talking about the EarthQuest project. Even at YOU. But I think I see some of your 'audience' leaving the theatre. Maybe it's time for some fresh material.

Thing is, after you move on to 'entertain' yourself on other threads you have 'questionable' interest in, I will still be reading (and probably posting) in this thread for as long as it exist. I've been a loyal fan of this HAIF thread for over 5 years because I like it, I'm interested in it and I support it. So if you want to continue your 'laughable commentary' here, I'll read it, I'll respond to it if I have something to say and if Frank McCrady is correct and the project breaks ground in 18 months from now, you and I are going to have start wearing bandaids on our fingers because I have no intention of giving up on the project or this thread until I read from some credible sources that there is nothing left to talk about. So far you haven't even come close to convincing me that EQ is a 'lost cause'. Someone might one day, but judging by your arguments laughable commentary so far, I'm fairly certain it won't be you. The only 'lost cause' I see around here is YOU and anyone misguided enough to buy any of your convoluted baloney.

P.S. Intent this!

[TheNiche]

My purpose and intent change; the story arc, the plot and the subplots all change a lot. I'm sorry that you can't follow along, that you can't discern when, how, or why, or when it is appropriate to laugh and shrug it off, and that you can't tell when I am dead serious. I'm also sorry that you cannot appreciate that I switched from supporting this project (aligned with you) to being a detractor (aligned with soapboxmom) when the preponderance of evidence supported the change.

That's right, "I was for it before I was against it." I'm sure you'll just eat that up. But it's my opinion that a flexibility to re-examine one's precepts is a requisite for being honest with oneself and with others. You might try it.

[Mister X]

I don't know what makes you think that I or anyone cares who you are aligned with (this week). I think I have made that clear by now. All I care about is that the project is built and that has nothing to do with what you want or who's 'side' you are on. Give ME a break. The project doesn't need anyone here to believe it or not to believe in it in order for it to move forward OR go away. I sincerely believe that you are overestimating the value people (especially me) are placing on your opinions and alignment.

I have given several good reasons over the last few days of why I know this project isn't dead. You haven't come up with one hard fact that PROVES that it is. At the same time, what or who I choose to believe also has little to do with YOU or whether EQ is ever built. I have no idea what you THINK you have contributed to this discussion that has any merit - but I assure you that you have brought nothing except to give me the opportunity to remind people day after day that as of the latest update from the people closest to the project, EQ is still being pursued. I don't know why this simple fact bothers you so much and I don't care. But if you want to keep jumping to unfounded conclusions (no charges of wrong-doing have been filed against anyone in the EMCID) go ahead. I have no problem reminding people of this, day after day - as long as it remains true.

I guess your idea of 'honesty' is forming opinions long before all the facts are in. I bet Nancy Grace would just LOVE you. Final court decisions regarding the Marlin/Atlantis bankruptcy have not even been made yet. There are court documents that say that DRHorton is in the process of acquiring the land. As I said the story is still being written.

You might trying waiting and reading all the facts before continuing to stick your foot in your mouth. I get it, you're in now so you might as well go full steam. Before going any further you might try taking a lesson from Rick Perry. Doubling downing on questionable remarks can really sink your ship. I will admit at the end of all of this you may be correct. You can look through 5 years worth of Mr.X postings and you won't see one that says this project is assured. I'm not pretending to KNOW the outcome of all of this as you are. But as of today, you are wrong when you suggest EQ is a lost cause when we know for a fact that the ball is still in play.

[TheNiche]

For every critical word that I write of EQ or your opinions about it, you write three or four in response. Don't pretend that you don't care.

You presume that all the facts are knowable and that anyone making a decision without knowing them is a fool, but that's just ridiculous. Developers, appraisers, and industry analysts all must attempt to forecast financial performance and market values according to the most likely scenarios. Some of the scenarios aren't known until they happen, and many that were possible are never considered at all. If held to your standards of evidence, EQ and every other real estate deal would be unfinancable. Moreover, an endeavor such as this is mired in such uncertainty that even anonymous internet jackoffs (like me) or county judges can contribute valid criticism to the public conversation; in fact, commentary from uninterested parties may be more reliable than that from an interested party with conflicted interests.

Projects are announced loudly and assertively, but die with nary a whimper. If you're waiting for official word, you may be waiting a long time. You can choose to weigh my opinion heavily, lightly, or not at all, but based upon the facts and evidence before me and my professional experience, I am reasonably confident that the EQ project as we knew it is dead. The most likely scenario for the EQ site is that it will be developed as a community of single-family homes with retail frontage along US 59.

[Mister X]

For every critical word that I write of EQ or your opinions about it, you write three or four in response. Don't pretend that you don't care.

You presume that all the facts are knowable and that anyone making a decision without knowing them is a fool, but that's just ridiculous. Developers, appraisers, and industry analysts all must attempt to forecast financial performance and market values according to the most likely scenarios. Some of the scenarios aren't known until they happen, and many that were possible are never considered at all. If held to your standards of evidence, EQ and every other real estate deal would be unfinancable. Moreover, an endeavor such as this is mired in such uncertainty that even anonymous internet jackoffs (like me) or county judges can contribute valid criticism to the public conversation; in fact, commentary from uninterested parties may be more reliable than that from an interested party with conflicted interests.

Projects are announced loudly and assertively, but die with nary a whimper. If you're waiting for official word, you may be waiting a long time. You can choose to weigh my opinion heavily, lightly, or not at all, but based upon the facts and evidence before me and my professional experience, I am reasonably confident that the EQ project as we knew it is dead. The most likely scenario for the EQ site is that it will be developed as a community of single-family homes with retail frontage along US 59.

It's easy to come up with 3 or 4 reasons that I think EQ is not a dead project for every one you give for throwing in the towel. But please believe me, (or don't) it doesn't have as much to do with your opinion or trying to convince you of anything (I'm pretty sure you're a lost cause...this week) as much as demonstrating to your audience that the project is viable and IS IN FACT currently being developed in some capacity. You and soapmom give me someone to direct factual information that isn't overly driven by emotion, nothing more. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings in the past, sometimes my words can sound a bit insensitive and obviously it's easy to understand why you seem to be so emotional, especially if you really once wanted the EQ project to happen and now have wrongly or at least prematurely chosen to abandon all hope. If it will make you feel any better, if the project fades away and no one even bothers discussing it anymore or anyone can put 2 or 3 facts together to convince me that no one is currently working on it in some capacity, however small, then I will be sad too and you will have your revenge on me for exposing the holes in your assumptions in front of your audience.

I think I have said at least 8 times now that you have my permission to give up on EQ if you want to. If you want to devote this much time and energy in a project you don't think will see the light of day - that's your problem. Believe me, if I was as certain as you are that EQ was never going to happen I would not be here crying about it. So, it is hard for me to understand exactly what you hope to accomplish. It's probably time for you to move on but I kind of hope you don't because if you were not supplying me with such easy points to refute this thread would consist of nothing but soapmom links to half-baked stories from the Atascosita Tribune and to her own anemic website.

ACTUAL paid developers, appraisers, and industry analysts have all said that the project is viable. That didn't change just because a judge is now in the process of deciding how the ownership of the land is to be settled.

[RedScare]

[TheNiche]

Look! A new rendering!

[Pleak]

My daughters would probably like the new version of the park better than dinosaurs. But my boys definately would want a dino park over a unicorn park.

[Soapboxmom]

Bottoms up! Craig Malisow has an awesome article out. I am the Heather Dobrott on page 4.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2012-04-12/news/earthquest-green-amusement-park/

[Mister X]

That read more like an editorial on the opinion page. The writer gave a nice history report, but I saw nothing definite about the future of the project.

This part of the story made the most sense:

"You've got media that writes purely investigative reporting...and then you've got...yellow tabloid journalism," Holbrook told the Press. "And if you're referring to the Tribune, you know, they report infactual stuff that's not factual at all [sic]. And they don't seem to want to actually report the information that's factual if you do give it to them."

On another note: There are 166 pages in the Houston Pavilions thread, including dozens where the project was left for dead by the majority of the people who were who were observing from the outside looking in - including several anonymous internet 'experts' and industry insiders with no accountability. How'd that work out? Sure, that project went through some drama and scale backs and may not have seen it's full potential - yet. But it DOES exist. Apparently, internet people and cynical free newspaper writers are not invited to ALL the closed door meetings that take place during project development.

We are only on page 20 on the EarthQuest Thread.

As a point of interest here are some comments lifted from page 20 of the Houston Pavilion thread...

"Here is an Idea why don't one of us on here call the company and ask if this project is on track?"

"i've tried, they don't like to give out any information"

"And the hysteria ensues."

"Man, some of you act like if it isn't starting construction the day after its announced then it's not likely to happen."

[TheNiche]

On another note: There are 166 pages in the Houston Pavilions thread, including dozens where the project was left for dead by the majority of the people who were who were observing from the outside looking in - including several anonymous internet 'experts' and industry insiders with no accountability. How'd that work out?

Obtained stupid loan from stupid lender during stupid year. Foreclosure. Lender absorbed by FDIC. Retail tenants suck, pay sucky rent. Those that advocated HP complain about its design. HP set an example to the city, to investors, and to lenders that will endure for decades to come that downtown retail does not work.

[uNICORN FAIL]