Homophobic Landscapers?

[TJones]

Nmain, I thought you said you would never show your Highschool Senior pic again ? You kinda have that Joan Cusack thing goin' there.

[Mark F. Barnes]

well, i was illustrating what info was going around. i felt it was

pertinent to the thread. i did not agree or disagree with it as

i was just stating that the quoted text was being circulated.

it seems that you have some sort of other issue going on. if

some guy was looking at your wife how this person was looking

at me, you would be offended... anyone would. i'm not going to

describe it because it's offensive.

i wasn't searching for references to have anyone removed.

i am not sure what anyone being lebanese has to do with how

you replied to my post. it did seem personal and you seem very

passionate about something i'm just not sure what it is.

Never mind I tried

[Montrose1100]

I never realized that we had all come to an agreement. Between all the name calling, accusations of hate mongering & small-minded bigotry, I must have missed our accord. Nothing was ever about me winning. It was about the realization of certain rights we should all have in this society.

To The Board My point is to try and get you to put yourself in your own shoes in this hypothetical society of forced service contracts. Imagine being gay and cutting hair for a living. Imagine having some homo-phobe walk in with his friend and begin talking about how in church last Sunday that all gays were going to hell for their lifestyles. Imagine them doing this on purpose, knowing very well that you're gay, and that it bothers you. All the while they remain polite and proper, yet still state their beliefs to you. Imagine them having as many people from their church as they could, getting their haircuts at your barborshop in an effort just to upset you. Wouldn't you like the right to tell them no, you will not cut their hair? The right to take their homophobic hate somewhere else?

In your uptopian society, you would be discriminating against them if you told them no, which would be a crime. It would be the same for everyone. No one would have the right to serve their own beliefs.

So which way do you want it? I ask only because you all need realize you can't have it both ways.

Your taking your point to a different level. Me, being a homosexual, I respect christian views. However, I do not bevieve I should refuse service to any christian or anyone else who thinks I should "Burn in Hell". That would be wrong. So your whole post is irrevelant. If the tables were turned, then even I would think that refusing them service because they are christian is bullshit.

[infinite_jim]

total non-issue.

capitalism is an unforgiving system of consequence and I've many a time seen people's belief systems change on a dime (no pun intended)

[musicman]

well, i was illustrating what info was going around. i felt it was

pertinent to the thread. i did not agree or disagree with it as

i was just stating that the quoted text was being circulated.

We KNOW it is being circulated..that's what started this thread LAST week. Saying you saw it on myspace would have been enough since that same email has already been posted here multiple times.

While I don't agree how the Farber's handled the situation, I will say that this isn't an isolated incident. A gay friend of mine is a landscaper in the Rice area and when I initially met him (in the early 90's) he wouldn't work for straight people. I told him that while i understand his wants, I think that he was also hurting himself because he is limiting his clientele. Of course I pissed him off but I will say that he has subsequently come around and is doing better.

[KinkaidAlum]

Yeah, well, I once knew a straight person who was into landscape architecture who would only work with clients who were siamese twins in which one was a lesbian and the other a pre-operative transexual. I told him that he was only hurting himself by limiting his options.

As for Jeebus, last time I checked, it was quite o.k. for consumers to make choices in who they did business with but that it wasn't as o.k. for businesses to turn down perspective jobs because they didn't like someone's sexuality, or skin color, or religion, or ethnicity, or age, or disability, or ... Now, in some states, some of the above laundry listed things are still LEGAL but that doesn't make them necessarily "o.k."

[musicman]

As for Jeebus, last time I checked, it was quite o.k. for consumers to make choices in who they did business with but that it wasn't as o.k. for businesses to turn down perspective jobs because they didn't like someone's sexuality, or skin color, or religion, or ethnicity, or age, or disability, or ... Now, in some states, some of the above laundry listed things are still LEGAL but that doesn't make them necessarily "o.k."

A business can turn down jobs for any reason and do including the ones you mentioned. modifying laws won't help the situation either. All the business owner has to say is "I'm sorry, i have too much business currently." or something like that. When they really meant, I won't work for gays, blacks, jews, etc.

businesses can also charge you different prices for different skin colors. I know when i got my wood floors done, the refinisher guy gave me a discount because of my skin color.

[Jeebus]

businesses can also charge you different prices for different skin colors. I know when i got my wood floors done, the refinisher guy gave me a discount because of my skin color.

You should post his name so we can crucify him.

[VicMan]

A business can turn down jobs for any reason and do including the ones you mentioned. modifying laws won't help the situation either. All the business owner has to say is "I'm sorry, i have too much business currently." or something like that. When they really meant, I won't work for gays, blacks, jews, etc.

businesses can also charge you different prices for different skin colors. I know when i got my wood floors done, the refinisher guy gave me a discount because of my skin color.

Which is illegal...

The U.S. Government forbids businesses from discriminating by race.

[nmainguy]

businesses can also charge you different prices for different skin colors. I know when i got my wood floors done, the refinisher guy gave me a discount because of my skin color.

Damn music! Is there a color scale? Right now my summer tan is turning lighter so I was wondering: if I need my house painted [which I do] when is the optimum time price-wise to get that done? In the summer when I have a more golden tan or in the winter when I am the whiteist person on earth?

[i'm kidding with you music ]

[musicman]

You should post his name so we can crucify him.

i'm sure...when it is to YOUR advantage you say nothing. "gah, they charged me too little!" is something you don't hear often.

But it does prove my point that this happens frequently. But most businesses have the sense NOT to put it in writing.

Which is illegal...

The U.S. Government forbids businesses from discriminating by race.

I wasn't discriminated against.

Damn music! Is there a color scale? Right now my summer tan is turning lighter so I was wondering: if I need my house painted [which I do] when is the optimum time price-wise to get that done? In the summer when I have a more golden tan or in the winter when I am the whiteist person on earth?

depends who your painter is i guess

i've also found some that won't work for people who don't speak spanish because they feel uncomfortable. it is their choice.

[TJones]

I wasn't discriminated against.

depends who your painter is i guess

You may think you weren't, but you openly admitted that the guy down the street with a different skintone is certainly getting the shaft from this guy. It is kinda like getting home from the drive thru at Mickey D's and finding out your order has doubled because you got the guy's burger behind you, and he got stuck with the fish sandwich. You ain't gonna call Ronald to tell him you got that extra burger, but let them be damned if next time you wound up with your fries missing out of the bag.

BTW, how do you know you were getting a good deal. Becuse he told ya, you were? If I had a nickel for everytime somebody told me I was getting a great deal, I'd have like 37 nickels.

[musicman]

You may think you weren't, but you openly admitted that the guy down the street with a different skintone is certainly getting the shaft from this guy. It is kinda like getting home from the drive thru at Mickey D's and finding out your order has doubled because you got the guy's burger behind you, and he got stuck with the fish sandwich. You ain't gonna call Ronald to tell him you got that extra burger, but let them be damned if next time you wound up with your fries missing out of the bag.

BTW, how do you know you were getting a good deal. Becuse he told ya, you were? If I had a nickel for everytime somebody told me I was getting a great deal, I'd have like 37 nickels.

I will continue to say he didn't discriminate against me. he didn't say i won't work for you cause you're gay he said i'll give you a better deal cause you're the same skin color as i am.

i don't see how your mcD's analogy comes into play here.

If you go to Spec's or a gas station, they give you a discount if you pay cash however if you use credit cards you pay the posted price. I know gas stations used to charge more for credit cards however that was found to be illegal, so now they give a discount for cash instead.

how do i know i was getting a good deal? because i know how much the going rate is plus a friend who is a custom home builder uses him too so i had a reference point to start from.

[TJones]

I will continue to say he didn't discriminate against me. he didn't say i won't work for you cause you're gay he said i'll give you a better deal cause you're the same skin color as i am.

i don't see how your mcD's analogy comes into play here.

If you go to Spec's or a gas station, they give you a discount if you pay cash however if you use credit cards you pay the posted price. I know gas stations used to charge more for credit cards however that was found to be illegal, so now they give a discount for cash instead.

how do i know i was getting a good deal? because i know how much the going rate is plus a friend who is a custom home builder uses him too so i had a reference point to start from.

The analogy is because you got the good deal it's all good, but if in fact it was the other way around and you got the shaft, you would probably squeal like a little girl about how you were wronged.

SO, what color of skin do you have to have to get the good deal ? Probably "red", like a Douchebag bottle. Or "redneck" ?

[musicman]

The analogy is because you got the good deal it's all good, but if in fact it was the other way around and you got the shaft, you would probably squeal like a little girl about how you were wronged.

SO, what color of skin do you have to have to get the good deal ? Probably "red", like a Douchebag bottle. Or "redneck" ?

but we're talking about being wronged because of skin color, race, etc. The McD's employee was simply not the best or brightest employee on staff. That was a mistake.

like all business owners they have the right to do or not to do business with anyone. They also have the right to charge different prices (esp if there is no set price). believe it or not that happens all the time. the better the neighborhood you live in, the more you will be charged in many cases. since the price isn't written down, you have nothing compare with. As the consumer you say "do the work" or "no thank you"

I know the gutter man gave me a discount cause i got him some additional business. it's all give and take. if you think you're getting a good deal you take it, otherwise you dont

[TJones]

but we're talking about being wronged because of skin color, race, etc. The McD's employee was simply not the best or brightest employee on staff. That was a mistake.

like all business owners they have the right to do or not to do business with anyone. They also have the right to charge different prices (esp if there is no set price). believe it or not that happens all the time. the better the neighborhood you live in, the more you will be charged in many cases. since the price isn't written down, you have nothing compare with. As the consumer you say "do the work" or "no thank you"

I know the gutter man gave me a discount cause i got him some additional business. it's all give and take. if you think you're getting a good deal you take it, otherwise you dont

But, you gladly took a deal based on YOUR skin color. That makes you a hypocrite. Wait a second, you are one of the ones actually praising Garden Guy on his decision weren't you. Nevermind. I take back the hypocrite remark, Moving on.

[musicman]

But, you gladly took a deal based on YOUR skin color. That makes you a hypocrite. Wait a second, you are one of the ones actually praising Garden Guy on his decision weren't you. Nevermind. I take back the hypocrite remark, Moving on.

please tell me where i praised his decision? don't put words in my mouth!

i said he has every right to do or not to do business with anyone. his stupidity in sending the email was where he made his mistake. i don't agree with his reasoning but that is his belief.

i always shop around to get good deals period.

TJones well if someone told you that they'll give you a break cause you're married. i can tell you, you wouldn't say "no go ahead and charge me full price."

[TJones]

please tell me where i praised his decision? don't put words in my mouth!

i said he has every right to do or not to do business with anyone. his stupidity in sending the email was where he made his mistake. i don't agree with his reasoning but that is his belief.

i always shop around to get good deals period.

TJones well if someone told you that they'll give you a break cause you're married. i can tell you, you wouldn't say "no go ahead and charge me full price."

You know I might very well not question it, that's a good hypethetical, but I know I wouldn't report it to the world on the internet with a smiling face if I did take the deal. I might ask what the full price is though, and why he or she charges less for married people. That's just me though, because I'm nosey.

back to Garden guy though, do you liken his only doing business with straight couples to your guy's beliefs that a person of certain color gets a better deal, which means they are both discriminating? Or, do you see it as two different situations ?

[musicman]

You know I might very well not question it, that's a good hypethetical, but I know I wouldn't report it to the world on the internet with a smiling face if I did take the deal. I might ask what the full price is though, and why he or she charges less for married people. That's just me though, because I'm nosey.

back to Garden guy though, do you liken his only doing business with straight couples to your guy's beliefs that a person of certain color gets a better deal, which means they are both discriminating? Or, do you see it as two different situations ?

when i get a good deal i'm happy as are most people. I reported it because it happened. i know there are people that want to "show off" and say they paid 400 for a product, but personally if i got the product for 100, i would say that and the person who paid 400 would feel worse.

in my example, what you're missing is that the person doesn't have to tell you they are giving you a break cause you're married. if the person likes you, they will give you a better price, if they don't, they'll charge you more. that's life. i know it happens. in the farber's case, they foolishly should have just said we're too busy or we can't do the job and ended it there. That is how most businesses operate. if they choose not to work for a certain group they are hurting themselves businesswise but that is their prerogative to deny working for gays. They stated their beliefs which is why this started.

i just dont think you're that naive to say you'd ask what the full price is. when you're talking services, you can't really post a price. that's why we're at the mercy of contractors. they charge you what they want and you take it or leave it. there's no set price.

when women go get their car fixed. The mechanics make it sound more complicated so they'll pay a higher price. unfortunately that's how many mechanics are.

with respect to the garden guy and my floor refinisher they both have the right to choose who they want to work for and choose what they want to charge. Most business owners know not to say "i won't work for you becuase you're gay, black, jewish" etc. IF they don't say anything you have no reason to believe they are being discriminatory nor would you suspect.

if you had a friend who was an electrician, he would probably charge you less than he would me since i don't know him. i wouldn't see that as discriminatory, that's life. i expect that.

[nmainguy]

They are posting porn on the Garden Guy's forum-and it ain't pretty. I guess ol' Garden Guy either isn't moderating his own forum or he's really into butt-porn.

[TJones]

Music, would you be pissed off if you found out the guy down the street got an even better deal than you because of the "color of his skin ?" Would that be FAIR ?

[musicman]

Music, would you be pissed off if you found out the guy down the street got an even better deal than you because of the "color of his skin ?" Would that be FAIR ?

no i wouldn't be pissed off because i agreed to the price. after that, things are beyond your control. earlier this yr i bought an hdtv and the price has dropped too. yes i'm amazed at the price drop but i'm glad i bought it when i did because i've enjoyed having it.

[TJones]

no i wouldn't be pissed off because i agreed to the price. after that, things are beyond your control. earlier this yr i bought an hdtv and the price has dropped too. yes i'm amazed at the price drop but i'm glad i bought it when i did because i've enjoyed having it.

You are missing the point, they aren't tellin' customers at Circuit City, "Hey, I like the color of your skin. Are you married ? If you are, we'll take another $150 off the price of this 46" Sony DLP. You are an enabler Music, you recieved a discount on the premise that you were the right race to do business with, and that all others are beneath you, and you are better than all the other races because of your skintone. It is the same price at Circuit City, no matter what time of the day you walk in and what the color of your skin is.

Just maybe though, he saw that you were the same skintone and maybe he has low self-esteem, and figured, "Hey, I don't make much mowing lawns for a livin'. I bet this brother with the same skintone as mine doesn't make much either because of his skintone, so I am gonna cut him a break." To me, it looks like you support racism when it works in your favor. Would that be a fair statement ?

[musicman]

You are missing the point, they aren't tellin' customers at Circuit City, "Hey, I like the color of your skin. Are you married ? If you are, we'll take another $150 off the price of this 46" Sony DLP. You are an enabler Music, you recieved a discount on the premise that you were the right race to do business with, and that all others are beneath you, and you are better than all the other races because of your skintone. It is the same price at Circuit City, no matter what time of the day you walk in and what the color of your skin is.

Just maybe though, he saw that you were the same skintone and maybe he has low self-esteem, and figured, "Hey, I don't make much mowing lawns for a livin'. I bet this brother with the same skintone as mine doesn't make much either because of his skintone, so I am gonna cut him a break." To me, it looks like you support racism when it works in your favor. Would that be a fair statement ?

What a great segway TJones!! Your circuit city example is a bad one. I will give you my parents email to verify this story if you wish. My parents bought an HDTV last week that was on sale for 1199. After some dealing on this and a warranty, I got the employee to lower the price to 999. At circuit city it is NOT the same price no matter what time of day you walk in. They CAN deal there. Even online prices are different than store prices due to internet specials. I bought this computer in april for 70 less than the store price because i bought it online. Next time you need a big ticket item at circuit city, take me with you, I'll get you the deal too.

Is this racism? No it's being smart. I'm all about making a deal.

If someone gives me a deal because he has low self esteem, is that MY fault? How did I know he was giving me a deal if this was all going on in HIS head? He quotes me a price and i'll take it or leave it.

I did NOT say all others are beneath me, I am better than other races. YOU DID. Again please don't put words in my mouth.

[TJones]

And again you miss the point. I never said you couldn't haggle at circuit city, I said the representatives aren't giving discounts because of the color of skin or because you are married. Try reading ALL the words next time. Is it your belief that you go the discount because of the color of your skin, or your superior negotiating skills, or did you walk in with your wife ?

You say you didn't know all this was goin' on in his head. Did you forget you typed this little quote, "businesses can also charge you different prices for different skin colors. I know when i got my wood floors done, the refinisher guy gave me a discount because of my skin color." There's your racism Chief !