Houston METRORail Plans

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

yes, after growing up in the suburbs, all "right" thinking people should move into the city's core. by staying in the suburbs we are proving ourselves arrogant and self-centered.

it doesn't seem to matter that we pay tolls, gas taxes, rental car fees and sales tax while we are going to and from around the greater houston area. we pay for city services that we do not use on a regular basis. i would wager that some suburbanites pay more in tolls, taxes and fees that benefit the city of houston and its residents than some city residents pay into the city coffers.

it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.

Are you transit dependant? If you are transit dependant and live in a suburb.....................

[RedScare]

yes, after growing up in the suburbs, all "right" thinking people should move into the city's core. by staying in the suburbs we are proving ourselves arrogant and self-centered.

it doesn't seem to matter that we pay tolls, gas taxes, rental car fees and sales tax while we are going to and from around the greater houston area. we pay for city services that we do not use on a regular basis. i would wager that some suburbanites pay more in tolls, taxes and fees that benefit the city of houston and its residents than some city residents pay into the city coffers.

it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.

Though I understand the point you are trying to make, bach, it is likely untrue. Your property taxes go to the county and school district. Tolls go to Harris County's toll authority. Your water may be purchased from Houston, but only because it is cheaper than building your own, and you are paying for what you use. Gas taxes go to the state and federal government. Only 2 cents of the hotel and rental tax goes to pay the bonds on the sports facilities, 75% of which is county owned.

Only sales taxes inside city limits goes to the city. While we appreciate the revenue, your sales tax dollars don't go very far, especially considering the lion's share of your shopping is done at the Woodlands Mall, not a Houston mall.

On the other hand, all of my city property taxes, water, and sales taxes go to the city. A suburbanite would have to spend $65,000 a year in Houston stores just to equal my city taxes. Possible, but not likely.

EDIT: Correction. A suburban resident would need to spend $90,000 in Houston stores to equal my city property tax.

Edited August 25, 2006 by RedScare

[TheNiche]

it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.

I appreciate your approach and wish that METRO's service area were larger so as to capture the sales tax of its entire user base. However, its service area is mostly limited to the City of Houston and Houston's ETJ, which includes much of unincorporated Harris County.

[bachanon]

red................all right, so i was on the soap box. i was assuming that renters wouldn't pay as much in taxes. after some thought, i realized that they are paying property taxes indirectly. my bad.

smarmy guy ...................so, if i'm transit dependant and live in a suburb............i'm too good to live in the city? or, don't deserve mass transit options into the city's core? i don't get it.

i'm not arguing your point that transit should serve immediate ridership needs. i simply wanted to respond to your mean-spirited assumption on the mindset of surburbanites being "too good" to live in the city. i'm all for the transit lines in and around the city center being a priority over commuter rail with one exception: commuter rail lines that come online with large commitments and cooperation from neighboring counties (ft. bend, for instance).

I appreciate your approach and wish that METRO's service area were larger so as to capture the sales tax of its entire user base. However, its service area is mostly limited to the City of Houston and Houston's ETJ, which includes much of unincorporated Harris County.

just a note: the woodlands express is supplied by the brazos transit district, a regional transit company, not metro.

website

Edited August 25, 2006 by bachanon

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

smarmy guy ...................so, if i'm transit dependant and live in a suburb............i'm too good to live in the city? or, don't deserve mass transit options into the city's core? i don't get it.

Its not hard to understand. People that live in the burbs are not transit dependant, usually. That translates into a non immediate need for rail service. People in the city, mainly inside the loop would use public transportation 7 days a week as opposed to a suburbanite using it only 5 days a week. Having the rail first in the city is a plus....and also helps to remove more of those damned busses from the streets. I dont think i can over simplify it any more than that.

[bachanon]

Its not hard to understand. People that live in the burbs are not transit dependant, usually. That translates into a non immediate need for rail service. People in the city, mainly inside the loop would use public transportation 7 days a week as opposed to a suburbanite using it only 5 days a week. Having the rail first in the city is a plus....and also helps to remove more of those damned busses from the streets. I dont think i can over simplify it any more than that.

agreed.

[TheNiche]

I dont think i can over simplify it any more than that.

I can.

If you save people's time or money, they will ride transit. In so doing, they'll remove people from the road, hence saving other people's time.

The suburban vs. urban cultural conflict is a non-issue except in peoples' minds. Most people have similar desires but make trade-offs to suit their particular situations. Its really very simple.

[KinkaidAlum]

Houston needs both light rail and commuter rail. The issue is that this isn't a chicken or egg scenario.

Light rail has to come first.

Houston has too many employment centers that cannot be connected by commuter rail until light rail is built out. That's why it was very smart of METRO to start with the first line which connects city and county government offices, UH Downtown, Downtown, Rice, Musuem District, Med Center, Stadiums, and cultural venues. That's why it is ESSENTIAL that the second line connects these things to UH, TSU, St Thomas, Menil, Greenway, Galleria/Uptown, Gulfton, Montrose, etc... in a very direct way.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Houston needs both light rail and commuter rail. The issue is that this isn't a chicken or egg scenario.

Light rail has to come first.

Houston has too many employment centers that cannot be connected by commuter rail until light rail is built out. That's why it was very smart of METRO to start with the first line which connects city and county government offices, UH Downtown, Downtown, Rice, Musuem District, Med Center, Stadiums, and cultural venues. That's why it is ESSENTIAL that the second line connects these things to UH, TSU, St Thomas, Menil, Greenway, Galleria/Uptown, Gulfton, Montrose, etc... in a very direct way.

Bingo, you win! Commuter rail should come after all other light rail lines have begun. The light rail lines will see a 7 day a week usage and remove some of those noisy busses from the roads.......

[TheNiche]

Houston needs both light rail and commuter rail. The issue is that this isn't a chicken or egg scenario.

Light rail has to come first.

Houston has too many employment centers that cannot be connected by commuter rail until light rail is built out. That's why it was very smart of METRO to start with the first line which connects city and county government offices, UH Downtown, Downtown, Rice, Musuem District, Med Center, Stadiums, and cultural venues. That's why it is ESSENTIAL that the second line connects these things to UH, TSU, St Thomas, Menil, Greenway, Galleria/Uptown, Gulfton, Montrose, etc... in a very direct way.

My only gripe is that this isn't all done at once. I know that there are political limitations that make such an expectation unrealistic, but that suboptimaliyt just nags at me all the time.

By the way, birds evolved from Reptiles. Reptiles lay eggs. Therefore, the egg came first.

[lockmat]

Thank you, danax, for leading me to this thread. Seems that a couple posters believe that the existing rails are already too congested and Heavy Commuter Rail couldn't happen with only those in place.

To reiterate and sort of summarize some views already held, I too believe that LRT should be established closer to the city before Heavy Rail is implemented; it only makes sense.

But I have another question. How are we going to take care of all the areas between the LRT lines, such as the space between The 'Richmond' line and the North line that will run along 45? (I don't remember if there will be one going along 290. But I'm sure the short term plan is BRT. Is there a better long-term plan?

[ricco67]

Post #27 on this thread has 290 on the map. Of course, that's a few years down the road.

[musicman]

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4575138.html

A number of homeowners and merchants along four routes where Metro plans to build Bus Rapid Transit lines can expect offers on their properties soon from the agency's real estate staff.

The Metropolitan Transit Authority Board voted Thursday to authorize right of way acquisitions along the North, Southeast, East End and Uptown routes.

"Those properties that we are authorizing them to acquire are both whole takings and pieces of parcels that have been fully identified as fully necessary under any scenario for acquisition," board Chairman David Wolff said after Thursday's vote.

The board took no action Thursday for right of way acquisition on the controversial University light rail line. But that line was at the center of a raucous gathering Thursday night at Rice University, where supporters and opponents of a proposed segment on Richmond argued about the plan.

'Friendly acquisitions'

After the board meeting earlier Thursday, Metro spokeswoman Sandra Salazar said the properties acquired for the four Bus Rapid Transit lines will be for transit use only, not for transit-oriented development.

She also described the board action as allowing only "friendly acquisitions" and said any condemnation proceedings under Metro's right of eminent domain would require separate authorization by the board.

However, officials expect that condemnation lawsuits will be needed to obtain right of way for the lines. Owners are entitled by law to fair market value for their property.

In a separate vote the board authorized condemnation if necessary to acquire 9.7 acres at the southeast corner of North Main and Burnett on the Near Northside for the planned Intermodal Terminal. Metro has bought 20 acres nearby for the facility, which would serve buses and trains, and is negotiating for a few other pieces, said Todd Mason, Metro vice president of real estate services.

Edited February 23, 2007 by musicman