Houston METRORail Plans

[UNLV]

There is no way Houston can run Heavy-rail passenger trains with the current rail congestion. A few years ago there was a plan to build a double line from Stafford to the ship channel, tunnel under the ship channel, then follow the 146 corridor to Dayton then east to Beaumont. This plan was suppose to divert 97% of Houston traffic quickly pass Houston. Is this still the plan?

[TheNiche]

There is no way Houston can run Heavy-rail passenger trains with the current rail congestion. A few years ago there was a plan to build a double line from Stafford to the ship channel, tunnel under the ship channel, then follow the 146 corridor to Dayton then east to Beaumont. This plan was suppose to divert 97% of Houston traffic quickly pass Houston. Is this still the plan?

No. In Fall of last year, the County was looking into ways to divert rail traffic to particular corridors. The really big routes in and out of the city would be through Stafford covering most of the outbound traffic headed west, southwest, and south (vice versa for inbound traffic). Some of the west and most of the northerly outbound traffic would be routed through Conroe, with a reliever route through Spring. The major lines would converge in a few key places, including Harrisburg, Channelview/Baytown, and Conroe.

I haven't heard anything since then to the effect that headway was being made, but have been hearing from the North Houston Association that meetings are being held to discuss the regional freight rail use patterns. I think that TXDoT was either sponsoring them or in some way involved in these meetings.

I've got a map of last year's proposals at work. I'll post it at some point later this week if I have the time.

[Trae]

Commuter Rail is greatly needed. The West, Southwest, and Northwest lines especially need one. Once the Hardy Rail Yards is up, we need one down to Galveston.

[UNLV]

I would love to see that map.

Take a look at these numbers.

Long Distance Travel Between Major Metropolitan Areas

Metro Pairs Generating

300,000 or More Person Round-trips Per Year

CMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2

Projected

Volume

Los Angeles San Diego 10,466,883

Las Vegas Los Angeles 9,120,296

New York Phil. 8,476,339

New York Wash. 7,773,377

Los Angeles San Fran. 7,049,954

Sacramento San Fran. 5,337,613

Phil. Wash. 4,678,680

Dallas Houston 3,097,228

Portland Seattle 2,605,223

Norfolk Wash. 2,590,212

Los Angeles Phoenix 2,472,665

San Diego San Fran. 2,415,188

Dallas San Antonio 2,286,587

Las Vegas San Diego 2,213,871

Boston New York 2,121,134

Albany NY New York 2,073,199

Harrisburg Phil. 2,060,693

Los Angeles Santa Barbara 2,036,605

Austin Houston 2,032,380

Lakeland Sarasota 1,940,741

Atlanta Nashville 1,893,454

Phoenix Tucson 1,811,036

Austin Dallas 1,805,389

Cleveland Columbus 1,800,126

Houston San Antonio 1,744,368

Miami New York 1,712,677

Reno San Fran. 1,704,123

Eugene Portland 1,666,301

Los Angeles Sacramento 1,631,660

Chicago Detroit 1,614,286

Beaumont Houston 1,450,625 <--------------------------------

Detroit Grand Rapids 1,411,112

Corpus Christi San Antonio 1,392,317

Okla. City Tulsa 1,344,266

Richmond Wash. 1,327,046

Cincinnati Columbus 1,310,511

-42-

CMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2

Projected

Volume

Hartford New York 1,285,033

Los Angeles New York 1,257,041

Atlanta Birmingham 1,219,047

Pittsburgh Wash. 1,196,211

Chicago Indianapolis 1,176,242

Lowell New York 1,167,354

Bakersfield Los Angeles 1,135,519

Phil. Scranton 1,123,862

Chicago Milwaukee 1,115,713

Chicago St. Louis 1,095,190

Fresno Los Angeles 1,070,261

Miami Orlando 1,035,869

Cincinnati Indianapolis 1,029,824

New York Scranton 1,007,871

Cleveland Detroit 987,179

Chicago New York 969,846

New York Orlando 952,078

Phoenix San Fran. 948,829

Los Angeles Seattle 945,033

New London New York 939,648

Kansas City St. Louis 920,066

Chicago Minneapolis 892,108

Orlando Tampa 877,514

Phil. Pittsburgh 877,108

This would be a succesful commuter route.

[ricco67]

Thing is, I understand that commuter trains can travel quite a few distances with only a few stops.

Question is: At what point would it be feasible for heavy rail to be utilized? Katy, Sugarland, woodlands, Kingwood, Pearland, Clearlake are all relatively close to Downtown. time for acceleration/deceleration needs to be taken into account on these matters, I would imagine.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I personally think commuter rail should be placed on the far back burner to that of rail in the city limits. If people in the burbs want to have rail so badly, especially above the people in the city of Houston, move into the city limits! Get the rail up and running in the city limits before focussing on the burbs.

[ricco67]

Totally agree, I'm just asking out of sheer curiousity.

I'm sure we could have our rail system set up in 3/4 of the time if we had a congressman BACKING it.

[sarcasm]

Then again, traffic would truly be a nightmare with all the construction happening all over the place.

Heaven forbid Houston would have a bunch of construction projects going on at the same time!

[/sarcasm]

[CE_ugh]

I think that the only cooridor needing commuter rail would be the Northwest cooridor. Thats only because it seems that it would be the most likely track for a future passenger line to Dallas and possibly San Antonio.

[TheNiche]

I would love to see that map.

Take a look at these numbers.

Long Distance Travel Between Major Metropolitan Areas

Metro Pairs Generating

300,000 or More Person Round-trips Per Year

CMSA/MSA #1 CMSA/MSA #2

Projected

Volume

Dallas Houston 3,097,228

Dallas San Antonio 2,286,587

Austin Houston 2,032,380

Austin Dallas 1,805,389

Houston San Antonio 1,744,368

Beaumont Houston 1,450,625

Corpus Christi San Antonio 1,392,317

THANK YOU! Going through your stats just inspired a spark in my brain. Abandon Perry's TTC proposal; I have a much better idea! One that deserved its own thread.

Very interesting, by the way, that of all of those high-travel pairs, not a single Texas city is a pair with a city outside of Texas. We're our own little region unto itself, it seems.

Edited August 24, 2006 by TheNiche

[mrfootball]

Why is Metro ____ing around with the University Line and other less important routes through city streets and not concentrating on what people really want, which is Commuter rail that runs down major corridors like: I-45, 290, I-10, 59, and 610? WTF is their problem? Have they got no common sense?

Hey Metro...go where you're wanted. Stop trying to create demand and go where the ____ing demand is.

I swear they've got chimps running that operation.

Edited August 24, 2006 by mrfootball

[musicman]

I personally think commuter rail should be placed on the far back burner to that of rail in the city limits. If people in the burbs want to have rail so badly, especially above the people in the city of Houston, move into the city limits! Get the rail up and running in the city limits before focussing on the burbs.

The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.

A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks.

Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.

A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks.

Where do i live genius?

[bachanon]

commuter rail is worthless if you cannot easily connect to the major centers of activity once the commuter gets inside the loop. hence, LRT. commuter rail straight into downtown or connecting with existing LRT is the only possible way commuter rail will succeed.

[RedScare]

The burbs are donating money to METROs funding and shouldn't be limited because YOU want a rail where you live. Very selfcentered.

A commuter rail network would be easier to implement because the tracks are already there! BTW Harris County has taken the lead on commuter rail because they are the ones who appear to be gathering rights for use of the existing tracks.

A few weeks ago, you were arguing that more people rode the Park & Rides than the LRT. Now, you are acting as if the suburbs get no service. Which is it?

[musicman]

Where do i live genius?

I have no idea where you live but I think we differ on where the burbs are............i I believe there are burbs in the City of Houston.

Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman

[musicman]

A few weeks ago, you were arguing that more people rode the Park & Rides than the LRT. Now, you are acting as if the suburbs get no service. Which is it?

I wasn't arguing that more people rode the park and ride, i was stating that more people rode the park and rides because the numbers to support the statement are clear. I didn't say the suburbs get no service.

The inner loop gets the most service from METRO due to the fact that their bus system is geared to towards those riders and this is where METRO spends the most money yearly. METRO is more than LRT vs. park & ride

Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I have no idea where you live but I think we differ on where the burbs are............i I believe there are burbs in the City of Houston.

Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services.

[musicman]

Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services.

Ah we do see the suburbs differently. Kingwood and Clear Lake are both suburbs but IN the City of Houston. This has been a big thorn in the City Council's side for decades. The City annexed both and the courts said they MUST provide city services or then they couldn't annex them.

I"m for gaining new riders. Those that NEED to ride the bus will ride whatever means of transportation is offered to them whether that would be bus or LRT. If buses are already available that provide an effective means of transportation, is building MORE LRT which eliminates bus routes providing more service or less? that is the question.

So where do you live?

Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman

[TheNiche]

I've got a map of last year's proposals at work. I'll post it at some point later this week if I have the time.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Ah we do see the suburbs differently. Kingwood and Clear Lake are both suburbs but IN the City of Houston. This has been a big thorn in the City Council's side for decades. The City annexed both and the courts said they MUST provide city services or then they couldn't annex them.

Suburb= residential area located outside of city limits. You are one of the very few here that dont know where i live. It has been posted many times.

[musicman]

Suburb= residential area located outside of city limits. You are one of the very few here that dont know where i live. It has been posted many times.

I understand your definition i consider outlying communities suburban whether they are part of the city or not.

No i don't know where you live. You were the one that posed the question first if i recall. Something like...Where do i live genius? To say very few people here don't know where you live is incorrect. If there was a poll, i'll bet more than half of the members here don't know where you live.

[Highway6]

If there was a poll, i'll bet more than half of the members here don't know where you live.

I don't know where any of you people live.

Edited August 24, 2006 by Highway6

[musicman]

I don't know where any of you people live.

[zaphod]

Why is Metro ____ing around with the University Line and other less important routes through city streets and not concentrating on what people really want, which is Commuter rail that runs down major corridors like: I-45, 290, I-10, 59, and 610? WTF is their problem? Have they got no common sense?

Hey Metro...go where you're wanted. Stop trying to create demand and go where the ____ing demand is.

I swear they've got chimps running that operation.

Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses.

IMO if they could magically plop down stations and started operating trains along 290 to the NW transit center i bet the number new choice riders(not normal users or ones who have no other options) using it would be mediocre at best. But once the U line and Uptown BRT are in operation lots more people would use it.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I understand your definition i consider outlying communities suburban whether they are part of the city or not.

And hogs are kosher too, right?

[CE_ugh]

Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses.

IMO if they could magically plop down stations and started operating trains along 290 to the NW transit center i bet the number new choice riders(not normal users or ones who have no other options) using it would be mediocre at best. But once the U line and Uptown BRT are in operation lots more people would use it.

An Uptown transit cooridor is absolutely essential to the success of a Northwest Rail Line.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

No less than this......

[TxDave]

Houston should have both. A effective suburban rail network would feed into good transit lines in the inner city. This could be LRT or BRT or whatever as long its faster and more efficient then regular buses.

I agree. Commuter vs. Urban rail should not be an either/or decision. The combination will help create a more vibrant "inner core" for all of Houston.

The light rail lines will allow people to easily move around inner city neighborhoods, and will create even more urban development in their path.

Meanwhile, the commuter lines will allow suburban residents (they are not going away!) consistent, easy access to the urban core. Once there they will also be able to use the light rail system to take advantage of the city's offerings.

Actually the commuter lines could provide two benefits: 1) they provide more users/customers for the light rail lines; and 2) if it is ultimately easier to get downtown by rail than driving among the suburbs, the downtown job centers will grow considerably, creating even more demand for local light rail.

[bachanon]

Nonsense. Commuter rail should not be a high priority. Rail inside the city should, especially inside the loop where people are more transit dependant. People that would make use of commuter rail are not transit dependant. Take care of the ones that would make use of rail on a daily basis before constructing commuter rail to please people that think they are too good to live in the city limits but dont mind enjoying city services.

yes, after growing up in the suburbs, all "right" thinking people should move into the city's core. by staying in the suburbs we are proving ourselves arrogant and self-centered.

it doesn't seem to matter that we pay tolls, gas taxes, rental car fees and sales tax while we are going to and from around the greater houston area. we pay for city services that we do not use on a regular basis. i would wager that some suburbanites pay more in tolls, taxes and fees that benefit the city of houston and its residents than some city residents pay into the city coffers.

it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.

[musicman]

it's a communal effort. it's not an us or them scenario.

bachanon you have to remember who you're talking about....

There are tons of people that will not ride a bus but will ride a train, i am one of them.

He wants LRT built because he won't ride a bus.