METRORail University Line

[TheNiche]

No offense, but that's just nutty. If I posted a list of 500 accredited climatologists who believe that global warming is occurring, and someone else responded by posting a list of 50 anonymous crackpots who think that global warming is a myth, you're telling me that those lists would add nothing to that argument?

That is correct. On a forum like this, all that that may mean is that the one poster has done a better job at research than has the other. It may also be complicated by availability of data, which as I mentioned, is often the result of financial capacity and motivations. In another sense, it is also difficult to label some people as accredited and others as not accredited. Self-proclaimed credentials are common, especially in non-profits with political agendas. In any case, if legitimate questions are raised about the validity of, for instance, the global warming theory or the forecasted physical or economic impacts, citing a list of people that say that "something must be done, or else!" does absolutely nothing to provide an answer to the question.

Here, you have a list of neighborhood associations and other organizations representing the interests of thousands of people and businesses in the affected area. And you say that list carries no more weight than a short list of anonymous opponents? Again, nuts.

In the political realm, yeah this stuff is absolutely important. But as far as determining a more wholistic solution that takes into account impacts to ALL of the stakeholders, the neighborhood associations are simply not a representative sample of those that might be affected. And no matter how well organized the political movement is, that has no bearing on the correctness of the decision that has to be made.

You use the term "objective", as if every argument can be conclusively settled by some quantifiable measurement. The reality is, very few arguments can be settled in such a fashion - if it were that easy, there probably wouldn't be an argument to begin with.

In fact, there is virtually nothing objective about this issue. I'm amazed you can't see that after 34 pages of this. The people who oppose rail on Richmond do so for personal reasons only. They don't care whether rail on Richmond would be objectively best for Houston - all they care about is that it's not for them.

With data, objective measures are possible. Unfortunately, data is limited, expensive to come by, and often expensive to properly analyze. So to a large extent we have to operate in the world of competing and interacting theoretical models, where objective answers to a question can include multiple valid outcomes. Frankly, there are so many combinations of alignments and design characteristics that a single answer is absolutely not going to please everyone, even if everyone is interested in creating the greatest social net benefit (i.e. Pareto Efficiency).

I believe that both sides have valid points, and I don't think that it is just a matter of people on one side of the argument with private interests versus people on the other side with public interests, either. Rather, there seem to be different stakeholders on both sides that each have either a private or a public interest, and many that probably have a mixed interest.

[H-Town Man]

With data, objective measures are possible. Unfortunately, data is limited, expensive to come by, and often expensive to properly analyze. So to a large extent we have to operate in the world of competing and interacting theoretical models, where objective answers to a question can include multiple valid outcomes. Frankly, there are so many combinations of alignments and design characteristics that a single answer is absolutely not going to please everyone, even if everyone is interested in creating the greatest social net benefit (i.e. Pareto Efficiency).

You know, you could have just said something like, "Theoretical models never tell the full story." You should change your name from 'TheNiche' to 'ThePedant.'

[nmainguy]

both sides are very upfront and have money supporting them. if you don't believe that then you're relying on lies and hoary, empty arguments.

Here is a list of Richmondrail.org board of directors:

http://www.richmondrail.org/blogs/?page_id=17

Here's one for the Mobility coalition:

I know you'll argue the point just because you think they've been up front but you clearly haven't done your homework if you think The Brass Maiden is an "upfont" organization. It's a woman with an answering machine.

[musicman]

Here is a list of Richmondrail.org board of directors:

http://www.richmondrail.org/blogs/?page_id=17

Here's one for the Mobility coalition:

I know you'll argue the point just because you think they've been up front but you clearly haven't done your homework if you think The Brass Maiden is an "upfont" organization. It's a woman with an answering machine.

NMain i was reponding to YOUR statement "Im proud to be on the side of a group that is upfront and not some back-room gang of slackers with more money than sense who rely only on lies and hoary, empty arguments."

posting a pro website doesn't clarify whether one group has more money than the other. I said they both have money. I see signs both pro and con along richmond. Those cost money too. They have a board of directors but so does TSU.

Anti rail petition words..."I oppose Metro's light rail being placed on Richmond Avenue. The 2003 referendum passed by the voters did not approve this placement. Save our trees and green space! "

pro rail petition words..."I support neighborhood-friendly light rail on Richmond Avenue. "

Reading both petitions, IMO neither says anything that has substance. If it convinces you either way then you'll taken the bait. I made up my mind by studying the issue, attending public meetings, talking with planners, etc.

There are many grass roots organizations that get things done in Houston. I personally have to hand it to people that put their money where their mouth is and gather 20,000 signatures (or the latest number) to get something put up for a public ballot.

For me personally, there's no need to sign a petition. I've made my feelings known to several councilmembers who work closely with METRO officials. And whatever happens I can't say i haven't tried to make it a better system based on what i know/learned and have experienced.

[RedScare]

You know, you could have just said something like, "Theoretical models never tell the full story." You should change your name from 'TheNiche' to 'ThePedant.'

Excuse me while I wipe the coffee from my nose.

[Houston19514]

Excuse me while I wipe the coffee from my nose.

Ditto. ROFL. That was the funniest (and truest) post I've seen here in a very long time.

[H-Town Man]

Wow. I don't think I've ever gotten a compliment from Red, so it must have actually been funny.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

Wow. I don't think I've ever gotten a compliment from Red, so it must have actually been funny.

it was....i think i might sig you

[ricco67]

it was....i think i might sig you

that almost sounds dirty.

[nmainguy]

You know, you could have just said something like, "Theoretical models never tell the full story." You should change your name from 'TheNiche' to 'ThePedant.'

No words truer spoken

[TheNiche]

You know, you could have just said something like, "Theoretical models never tell the full story." You should change your name from 'TheNiche' to 'ThePedant.'

If that was a joke, then honestly, I don't get it. I said what needed to be said--nothing more, nothing less. Had I stated what was suggested, it would not have communicated the intended message. In fact, it would've been downright confusing.

[nmainguy]

...and now for something that truely is NOT down-right confusing:

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/

[TheNiche]

...and now for something that truely is NOT down-right confusing:

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/

Christof says:

The University of Houston is a significant destination, with 34,000 students, only 6% of which live off campus.

[musicman]

...and now for something that truely is NOT down-right confusing:

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/

The University of Houston is a significant destination, with 34,000 students, only 6% of which live off campus.

Does he mean ON campus?

I was just reading about the SE line and the number of streets that will be closed along Scott in the vicinity of UH from METRO's website.....

Localized impacts are anticipated at

15 non-signalized intersections along Scott Street because the fixed guideway in the

median of the roadway would restrict left-turn and cross street through movements at

these intersections. Traffic that currently makes these movements would need to divert

to adjacent signalized intersections. In addition, pedestrian movements across the median at these intersections would be

prohibited. These intersections are on Scott Street at Denver, Bell, Pease, Jefferson,

Coyle, McIlhenny, Bremond, Dennis, Drew, Tuam, Anita, Rosalie, Simmons, Reeves,

Alabama, and Eagle.

Localized traffic impacts are anticipated at 20 non-signalized intersections along Scott

Street and Griggs Road ...........These intersections are on Scott Street at Rosewood, Wichita, Ruth,

Wentworth, Arbor, Rosedale, Palm, Gertin, Rio Vista, Julius, Parkwood, and

Charleston Streets; and on Griggs Road at Foster, Eastwood, Wayland, Grace, Carol,

Shroeder, Cavanaugh, and Royal Palms.

It sure would be irritating if I couldn't "easily" turn onto my street because of the rail system. I still think the Richmond area will be affected in a big way!

[713 To 214]

Ditto. ROFL. That was the funniest (and truest) post I've seen here in a very long time.

I agree 100%!

[tierwestah]

You should change your name to 'ThePedant.'

This comment is so grand! Painfully funny because it's so true.

And since Niche didn't get it. The punchline is by the definition itself. Very funny

From Websters dictionary

Pedant:

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who makes a great show of his knowledge

[TheNiche]

This comment is so grand! Painfully funny because it's so true.

And since Niche didn't get it. The punchline is by the definition itself. Very funny

From Websters dictionary

Pedant:

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who makes a great show of his knowledge

I understand, and agree, but am not amused. It is a statement, not a joke.

[VicMan]

I kind of like signature #43.

Since internet petitions are crap, I'll sign the petition

I'll add a link to an infamous shock site

[Trae]

I don't get the joke.

[H-Town Man]

Let's talk about light rail, and why it should be on Richmond Ave.

[nmainguy]

Let's talk about light rail, and why it should be on Richmond Ave.

We've done that. Go back and review the posts.

[H-Town Man]

Thanks, I'll review them. I meant, as opposed to personal comments.

[Furious Jam]

Rail on Richmond supporters take note:

John Culberson will be having a town hall meeting on Thursday, February 22 at 6 p.m. on Rice University campus - McNair Hall, Shell Auditorium, entrance #20. RichmondRail.org is encouraging supporters to show up early, decked out in pro-rail gear (signs won't be allowed). I'll be there and I hope to see a big pro-rail turnout.

[ricco67]

<bump>

I'm going to try to attend.

[nmainguy]

Reading both petitions, IMO neither says anything that has substance. If it convinces you either way then you'll taken the bait. I made up my mind by studying the issue, attending public meetings, talking with planners, etc.

For me personally, there's no need to sign a petition. I've made my feelings known to several councilmembers who work closely with METRO officials. And whatever happens I can't say i haven't tried to make it a better system based on what i know/learned and have experienced.

Signing a petition is merely stating your agreement with the petitioners. Your straw-man argument is just that: a straw-man argument.

BTW, how did you vote on the non-binding resolution?

[musicman]

BTW, how did you vote on the non-binding resolution?

i didn't

[ricco67]

<cough>

<cough>

<cough>

Don't vote, can't delicate flower!

<cough>

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</cough>

[musicman]

<cough>

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Don't vote, can't delicate flower!

<cough>

<cough>

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i meant the petition

[nmainguy]

<cough>

<cough>

<cough>

Don't vote, can't delicate flower!

<cough>

<cough>

</cough>

No, he can delicate flower...it's the way we do things. It's called freedom of speech.

All he has done is put in to question his motives. Is he an anarchist? Or is he just a lazy citizen who counts on people like us to carry his load?

I'm going for lazy because he doesn't seem to be resourcefull, clever or smart enough to be anything other than.

[musicman]

No, he can delicate flower...it's the way we do things. It's called freedom of speech.

All he has done is put in to question his motives. Is he an anarchist? Or is he just a lazy citizen who counts on people like us to carry his load?

I'm going for lazy because he doesn't seem to be resourcefull, clever or smart enough to be anything other than.

It's always a relief to uncover the blowhards on HAIF who delicate flower and moan yet don't vote.

As i said, i thought you were referencing the petition.

Just remember, because you vote doesn't mean you're carrying my load nor anyone elses. It takes more than placing a vote to make a difference.