METRORail University Line

[TheNiche]

Screw the politics. I don't get the lack of logic.

When you say "screw the politics," politics will say "screw you." Sucks, but that's life. Deal with it.

[sevfiv]

Bad attitude on your part will do nothing to solve the problem, and only serves to further polarize political partisans.

"bad attitude" (aka dissent) is good, especially when crap like this happens

and political partisans polarize themselves

that was a nice alliteration - almost daffy duck quality

[Pumapayam]

What a major disappointment.

The idea that this will not only MISS the Galleria and all of the offices, hotels, and high rise/high density residential buildings surrounding it but also potentially being directly connected to Greenway Plaza via Richmond is absurd. Why bother?

The light rail system needs to be built so that some day the commuter rail lines can hook up to the regions major employment and entertainment centers. The fact that UPTOWN will be missed on the second line is flat out stupid.

Agreed, why the residents thought the effect to their property values would be affected negatively is absurd. Maybe temporarily during construction, which is no different than the people in the I-10 west corridor are experiencing.

After it is completed, those homes will be so appealing to resell, the values will increase by the double digits.

[Lectro]

Why bother? They should just cancel the whole project.

Maybe there should be another vote, that way it can be settled once and for all, which route the people of this city want!

We have nothing to lose at this point.

[JJxvi]

A Cummins crossover would bring rail within a couple blocks of Richmond @ Weslayan.

Also, as mentioned before. this line was never intended to dconnect to Uptown. the METRO Solutions master plan has a future line running north from the hillcroft transit center (presumably along Post Oak/610) to 290 (Delmar/Noerthwest Mall/Possibly new NW transit center which would be included in Phase 3 of the Metro Solutions project.

The crossover at Cummins is the best alternative, IMO. You get most of commercial inner city Richmond on the rail, you connect up Greenway plaza to the rail network. I dont like crossing over to Westpark any sooner than that.

I sincerly hope the Montrose-59-Westpark option is merely on the table as an example during the cost benefit analysis of what a joke such a Culberson supported route would be because it bypasses anywhere anybody would reasonably want to be (Richmond/Greenway Plaza) while also requiring what would probably be very expensive construction around neighborhoods on a section of 59 that was just rebuilt.

[Pumapayam]

Why bother? They should just cancel the whole project.

One lousey neighborhood and a congressman ruined it for everyone else in the city, that is bullying!

[JJxvi]

I dont see that anything is ruined provided we dont end up with the Montrose-59-Westpark option. The most important thing for the West end of the University line is Richmond inside Weslayan and Greenway Plaza. As long as those get connected this is great. Uptown was never meant to be served by this line and will need its own line running N/S regardless.

[Highway6]

Also, as mentioned before. this line was never intended to dconnect to Uptown.

Thats the problem... Why not ?

How many people will decide to now drive between Uptown and Greenway instead of Rail because instead of one line with 3-4 stops seperating them, they'll have Two rail lines with a 5-10 minute wait in between.

I live uptown, work Greenway. One bus route drops me off within a few blocks of each destination and I've taken the bus numerous times. I would never have made such a short commute by bus if it meant a transfer and a wait.

Many will make that same decision with rail or BRT in Uptown.

When all is said and done.. what other destinations will Uptown be directly connected to... nada... You'll have a transit station and a wait at each end. Its just one big missed opportunity.

[Pumapayam]

Thats the problem... Why not ?

How many people will decide to now drive between Uptown and Greenway instead of Rail because instead of one line with 3-4 stops seperating them, they'll have Two rail lines with a 5-10 minute wait in between.

I live uptown, work Greenway. One bus route drops me off within a few blocks of each destination and I've taken the bus numerous times. I would never have made such a short commute by bus if it meant a transfer and a wait.

Many will make that same decision with rail or BRT in Uptown.

When all is said and done.. what other destinations will Uptown be directly connected to... nada... You'll have a transit station and a wait at each end. Its just one big missed opportunity.

And the Galleria is just a parking lot, especially during the holidays.

The mobility for Uptown would be great if the University line and Uptown line connected.

[JJxvi]

The Uptown line and University line will have common (or close enough) termination points. They might be able to have the Uptown Line simply be a continuation of the University line that turns N/S along Post Oak. Lets not delicate flower before the plans are even made people.

[nmainguy]

Also, as mentioned before. this line was never intended to dconnect to Uptown.

Every map produced by METRO has the U Line and the Uptown line intersecting.

Here's a copy of the flyer METRO sent out before the 2003 referendum:

Of course, You'll have to get off the LRT and wait for a BRT connection no matter what the route.

I'll wait until they publish the consultant's name and their analysis.

That should be some interesting reading.

[Highway6]

The Uptown line and University line will have common (or close enough) termination points. They might be able to have the Uptown Line simply be a continuation of the University line that turns N/S along Post Oak. Lets not delicate flower before the plans are even made people.

A continuation would be one train.

Two trains and a wait in between is not continuous.

As Lesley Gore would say..

It's my city and I'll delicate flower if I want to....

[Highway6]

Of course, You'll have to get off the LRT and wait for a BRT connection no matter what the route.

True.. but the BRT will one day be LRT, and the tracks will be put down from the get go.

I guess, y'all are right, the fact that the Universities line ends at Hillcroft TC is not yet reason to delicate flower.

We haven't seen firm plans or options yet for the Uptown line.... when we do, we can delicate flower.

We don't know how it will connect to the University line.

If it too terminates at Hillcroft... I'll keep bitching.

If it instead turns east and has smooth transition right into the U line and its trains also run the length of the U line then I'll be happy.

Going off on a tangent here..

But why is the Uptown line's southern termination at the U-line?

Why not keep going south to give access to Bellaire and Myerland?

Does Bellaire and West-U politics have anything to do with this ?

From the Chron...

[Pumapayam]

Great, I can take LRT to the dog park, whoop'd doo.

I guess this development won't be benefiting anymore from the lightrail!

I am surprised AftonAg is not all up in here gloating?

[Furious Jam]

Cummins is close enough to Greenway Plaza and such. If y'all want to use rail, you should be prepared to walk a block or two. Does anyone here think that a Cummins station won't serve Greenway and the new Taj Mahal development?

I too am disappointed that the line won't go straight to the Galleria, but as others have mentioned, perhaps that was never part of the plan. So long as the Hilcroft TC eventually connects to a Galleria line, I don't have a problem with it. If you don't want to make transfers, then too bad - transfers were always part of my routine in NYC.

With all of the opposition, any rail from Main to Greenway Plaza is a victory in my mind. Provided that's what we end up with now. To me, this is a compromise that Culberson can accept - he gets to protect the deep pocket in Afton Oaks. As for the Brass Maiden and others, I doubt Culberson ever really cared. This entire fight has been fueled by AO wanting to make left turns on Richmond at their leisure.

[musicman]

I am so pissed off!

Where is the Uptown connection going to happen, maybe Sage?Rice and Westpark?

Remember it's not all about you. I've been saying that only a small number of people wrt the population of houston would benefit because most are not within walking distance to the line.

As for the uptown connection....hope you like to ride a bus cause i'll bet that's what ends up happening. the wheeler station intersection will sure be a nightmare.

They could have gone underground in that section, couldn't they?

Again let's stay in the REAL world.

[TheNiche]

But why is the Uptown line's southern termination at the U-line?

Why not keep going south to give access to Bellaire and Myerland?

Does Bellaire and West-U politics have anything to do with this ?

Bellaire and West U would be entirely against LRT coming through their communities for much the same reason as AO is. They are basically affluent low-density suburbs, which are not particularly compatible with LRT. They wouldn't provide very high ridership because affluent folks use private vehicles more often than do low-income folks, the horn would be audible for a half-mile in all directions, and it would take lanes from the streets traveled by wealthy folks in their private vehicles. Not only does it not make sense for Bellaire or West U, but it doesn't make much sense for METRO...low ridership.

Now, on the other hand, if they wanted to run LRT down Bellaire Blvd. or some other major thoroughfare on the southwest side, that'd produce some incredible ridership numbers. That's our densest part of town, and is one of the poorest. It, alone, is why serving Hillcroft TC is important.

[musicman]

The fact that UPTOWN will be missed on the second line is flat out stupid.

Most wouldn't walk from Richmond to the Galleria. Easier to drive.

My God, this town is so backward. Why for Christ's sake can't we plan anything worth a damn? Just another example of Houston's "leaders" being completely out of it. Face it, commuter rail will never happen in "hillbilly holler" (oh, I mean, Houston).

Please explain how commuter rail service will be affected by the Richmond line?

[musicman]

One lousey neighborhood and a congressman ruined it for everyone else in the city, that is bullying!

lack of planning is more at fault. if metro wanted a good plan, they would have done the studies BEFORE the election and not waited til after.

A continuation would be one train.

Two trains and a wait in between is not continuous.

As Lesley Gore would say..

It's my city and I'll delicate flower if I want to....

METRO's planning always considered the Uptown segment different than the University one.

[musicman]

Going off on a tangent here..

But why is the Uptown line's southern termination at the U-line?

Why not keep going south to give access to Bellaire and Myerland?

Does Bellaire and West-U politics have anything to do with this ?

Did you ever attend any of the METRO planning meetings in the last yr? All of the options were on the table for our review. These are good questions but options such as you suggest are not up for debate currently.

[The Voice of University Oaks]

The Uptown line (which, as has mentioned, will initially be bus rapid transit instead of rail) will intersect with the University Line at wither the 59/610 intersection or at the intersection of Westpark and South Rice. Transfers from one line to another will be made at that point. It's not as nice as providing a one-seat ride into the Galleria, but it will work.

Afton Oaks was simply too much trouble for too little benefit.

The presentation from today's meeting, along with maps and preliminary cost and ridership numbers is here:

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Boar...1_06.140142.pdf

There's also some good discussion about the eastern portion of the University Line to TSU and UH.

[musicman]

The Uptown line (which, as has mentioned, will initially be bus rapid transit instead of rail) will intersect with the University Line at wither the 59/610 intersection or at the intersection of Westpark and South Rice. Transfers from one line to another will be made at that point. It's not as nice as providing a one-seat ride into the Galleria, but it will work.

Afton Oaks was simply too much trouble for too little benefit.

The presentation from today's meeting, along with maps and preliminary cost and ridership numbers is here:

There's also some good discussion about the eastern portion of the University Line to TSU and UH.

Definitely some good info. Realistically, it looks like METRO will choose the Cummins crossover from Richmond to Westpark. Even though Greenway might be better, it seems METRO is concerned about the structural aspects of the plan due to numerous parking garages.

i'll also make a bet that the residents between montrose and Shepherd will be irritated since Dunlavy will be the only stop.

And finally. the east portion, near UH looks interesting. I like the mentioning of a connection to the eastwood transit center but i didn't like the reference to future development may not allow the extension.

[MaxConcrete]

http://metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/Boar...1_06.140142.pdf

The plan shows the Montrose option as an elevated structure along the north side of the freeway from Montrose to Kirby. An elevated structure is basically a poison pill for that option, since I'm sure that the neighborhood on the north side of the freeway won't buy into that. I assumed that the old railroad right-of-way on the south side of the freeway would be used, but apparently not.

The report does not explain why other good options were eliminated. For example, the Richmond-Greenbriar-Westpark option. It has the third highest federal funding ratio, ridership within 2400 of the Cummins option, and the lowest construction cost.

Based on the final 3, it seems that the Cummins option is clearly the best.

[Guest Marty]

lack of planning is more at fault. if metro wanted a good plan, they would have done the studies BEFORE the election and not waited til after.

I been following this thread for a long time "lurker" and i find this is the most reasonable statment so far.

[nmainguy]

It looks like Red was right-on when he named this thread. Shortsighted opposition wins the day.

Congratulations, Houston. You have once again snatched failure and mediocrity from the jaws of success and magnificence.

[musicman]

Congratulations, Houston. You have once again snatched failure and mediocrity from the jaws of success and magnificence.

You should send that to the Mayor and the Controller. Maybe Annise Parker will do a study on it. LOL

[Transit Nut]

Please make sure you read METRO's presentation and press release first before anything else:

http://metrosolutions.org/go/doc/1068/140142/ (presentation)

http://metrosolutions.org/go/doc/1068/140149/ (release)

http://metrosolutions.org/go/doc/1068/140146/ (News Flash with links to both)

I was fortunate to be able to attend the board meeting today (along with about 100 other members of the public), and you really don't get the full story just by reading the presentation; you miss the comments that the presenter and board members make.

For example, Frank Wilson pointed out that most likely part of the Uptown Corridor will be a branch of the University Corridor (he's said this before too). That is, westbound trains from Wheeler could alternate between terminating at Hillcroft and terminating somewhere at Uptown. A transfer may not be necessary to go from Wheeler Station to Westheimer Station. a good example of a similar setup is the Red Line in L.A. There is one trunk from Union Station, then a branch to North Hollywood and a branch to Wilshire/Western.

There will probably still be BRT between the NW TC and S. Rice TC, but both BRT and LRT could share the "lane" in the Uptown area. Just because the Uptown and University Corridors are planned separately (with different names) doesn't mean they can't share/connect.

Chairman Wolff pointed out that the Richmond to Montrose to 59 to Kirby to Westpark (the 3rd west alternative) was included for Culberson's sake.

All alternatives (except maybe the 3rd west one, the "Culberson" one), are reasonable and logical, at least based on what has been presented so far.

[IHB2]

Based on the final 3, it seems that the Cummins option is clearly the best.

unless you live in upscale Sunset Terrace and now face the prospect of a 35 ft tall track, 30 ft from your back fence, with a multi-ton train passing every 3 minutes 18-20 hrs/day.

litigation likely unless EPA and TCEQ can convince METRO to go sub or cross to Wpark at the UP track.

[musicman]

unless you live in upscale Sunset Terrace and now face the prospect of a 35 ft tall track, 30 ft from your back fence, with a multi-ton train passing every 3 minutes 18-20 hrs/day.

litigation likely unless EPA and TCEQ can convince METRO to go sub or cross to Wpark at the UP track.

good luck with that. not an option.

[MidtownCoog]

Afton Oaks is already an overpriced crap-hole. Some of those dumps are going for 1.1 mil. Nothing but property value.

So we can destroy Third Ward to build 288, but we can't disrupt Afton Oaks?