DJ V Lawrence Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm in shock. I thought if ANYONE in America deserved the death penalty, it would be a person directly involved in murdering more Americans than anyone I can recall. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm in shock. I thought if ANYONE in America deserved the death penalty, it would be a person directly involved in murdering more Americans than anyone I can recall. WTF?That's just it, the evidence presented was not persuasive as to his direct involvement in the 9-11 plot. It was actually quite the contrary. . .no matter how unpopular, or distasteful that may be for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Except that he wasn't involved in it. He was trying to make himself important. Even Al Qaida said he was no more than a bumbling wannabe.I'm glad the jury gave him the finger, saying, "No martyr for you!"Sorry for the repeat 713. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyps Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Not that I would shed a tear over the guy...but I would have had a personal problem with if they gave him death...we would have executed him for a crime he didn't commit. sure, he inteneded to...but it never actually happened.that would open a very slippery slope. what was that movie? the minority report? just because someone intends to and plans a crime, but doesn't go through with it...does that merit the full punishment of the law?? Do you lock him up for the planning of the crime??? (I'm okay with that) but do you treat him as if he actually commited the deed?granted...we are doing that anyway, and I have no problem locking him up forever...so call me a hypocrite. I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm in shock. I thought if ANYONE in America deserved the death penalty, it would be a person directly involved in murdering more Americans than anyone I can recall. WTF?Even if the evidence was perfectly complete, I'd have favored a life sentence. I know that the technical definition of 'martyr' doesn't quite cover my theory, but I still think that Moussaoui was of the mindset that his death could result in some form of martyrdom, be it spiritual or political, and that the best thing in this case was to let him rot in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Except that he wasn't involved in it. He was trying to make himself important. Even Al Qaida said he was no more than a bumbling wannabe.I'm glad the jury gave him the finger, saying, "No martyr for you!" Sorry for the repeat 713. HOLY MOLY ! Somebody call Ripley's ! Red and I are 100% in agreement on this one. Don't get me wrong, you know me, I love the death penalty, I think it is great. This Moussaoui character though, deserves to ROT and think about how he will not get his 11 virgins and be the laughing stock of the Radical Muslim world. Just like Red said, "No Martyr for you !" There really IS justice in the world, and the world should rejoice tonight. I wonder who will claim Moussaoui as their "Biotch" first ? I guarantee his dance card will be full EVERY night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I wonder who will claim Moussaoui as their "Biotch" first ? I guarantee his dance card will be full EVERY night. I nominate that guy from Spring with the plastic pipe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 HOLY MOLY ! Somebody call Ripley's ! Red and I are 100% in agreement on this one. Don't get me wrong, you know me, I love the death penalty, I think it is great. This Moussaoui character though, deserves to ROT and think about how he will not get his 11 virgins and be the laughing stock of the Radical Muslim world. Just like Red said, "No Martyr for you !" There really IS justice in the world, and the world should rejoice tonight. I wonder who will claim Moussaoui as their "Biotch" first ? I guarantee his dance card will be full EVERY night. Unfortunatly for us Moussaui only get's one hour a day outide his cell per day-not really enough time to get to be a petite Muffy to the burly and relentless Bruno. Again I reveal my dark side: death is too easy for him and the Timmy's of the world. I refer you to my previous posts regarding my nightly punch in the face punishment. Imagine that: a cruel liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Im not suprised at the sentencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Im not suprised at the sentencing.I was surprised, in that I felt that the jury would feel immense pressure to kill him, regardless of the evidence. News reports suggest that they did not believe the gov't. proved him more than a bit player, and they definitely did not believe him, nor his defense attorneys. In effect, it is one of those strange verdicts where they did not believe anyone.They are calling this a stinging defeat for the Administration. Perhaps, but I think it sends a much bigger message to the world that we believe in our Justice System, and that we make it work, even when it hurts. I am proud that the jury stayed true to it's oath. The Administration would get a boost by supporting it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Besides, he is gonna get shanked out in the courtyard anyway. It will be investigated because he won't be in the general population, then it will get swept under the rug quickly. Can't be martyred that way either. You will just kind of chuckle to yourself when you read about it in the paper.I nominate that guy from Spring with the plastic pipe!No, no, those two guys will also succumb to a 6'7" Dark stranger named Leroy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Besides, he is gonna get shanked out in the courtyard anyway. It will be investigated because he won't be in the general population, then it will get swept under the rug quickly. Can't be martyred that way either. You will just kind of chuckle to yourself when you read about it in the paper.No, no, those two guys will also succumb to a 6'7" Dark stranger named Leroy also.They just interviewed one of them on CH 13 news, it seems he's already been beat up at least once while in the Harris County Jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Yo, is the death penalty seen as a punishment or as a way to protect society from a dangerous person? If it's punishment, then I understand the verdict, but if it to protect citizens, then ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Yo, is the death penalty seen as a punishment or as a way to protect society from a dangerous person? If it's punishment, then I understand the verdict, but if it to protect citizens, then ????The death penalty is meant to be the ultimate deterrent. However, with the rise in crimes that the death penalty is meant to deter, I'd say that it doesn't achieve its purpose when someone is executed. Why? Well, it normally takes many years from the time someone commits a capital offense until the time he/she is actually executed. Many times a whole generation, or more, passes before the person is executed. This lapse in time creates a disconnect in most people's mind. When the person does finally get executed, a majority of the time, we have to be reminded of what he/she is being executed for. . .and even then, it's usually just a blurb in the paper, or on the 6:00 news.The death penalty, in its current form, is really just state-sponsored revenge killing. If you really want the death penalty to be a deterrent, broadcast the lethal injection of a death row inmate on PBS, or string the people up in the town square (in front of city hall) for all to see, immediately after the person is convicted, and has exhausted a 3 month appeals process. . .but that would be too much for most to handle, wouldn't it? I certainly don't condone the death penalty, in any form. However, I respect that a majority of our state congressmen think their constituents do. I just say, if you're going to do it, do it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 The death penalty is meant to be the ultimate deterrent....If you're right (and I think you are), then what's the point? Some people on the death penalty want to die, and just want to be put out of their misery to not live a suffering life that seems hopeless to them. Not saying all, just saying some. Yo RedScare, might need your help on this one. What's the bigger motive behind the death penalty between protecting society and avenging a wrongful act in the American law's eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 If you're right (and I think you are), then what's the point? Some people on the death penalty want to die, and just want to be put out of their misery to not live a suffering life that seems hopeless to them. Not saying all, just saying some. Yo RedScare, might need your help on this one. What's the bigger motive behind the death penalty between protecting society and avenging a wrongful act in the American law's eyes?This may come as a surprise to some, but I agree completely with 713 to 214. The Death Penalty is State Sponsored Revenge Killing. He is also right about televising it. How else do you make it a deterrent if no one sees it?But, alas, like our wars, we don't want to see the blood. That might weaken our resolve if we actually had to watch what we support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 This may come as a surprise to some, but I agree completely with 713 to 214. The Death Penalty is State Sponsored Revenge Killing. He is also right about televising it. How else do you make it a deterrent if no one sees it?But, alas, like our wars, we don't want to see the blood. That might weaken our resolve if we actually had to watch what we support.Kinda like eating meat while watching a video on the animal getting killed. I'm sure people are grown-up to know what the death penalty is. I agree with you, and I'm only against the death penalty when society sugar-coats it. It ain't glamorous.Reason why I ask is because on the other forum "My Own Fair Spring", some of us on HAIF were openly talking about how the two attackers deserve the death penalty if available. What make Moussoui less of a threat than the two attackers in Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 What make Moussoui less of a threat than the two attackers in Spring?There are many factors that bring about different outcomes in these types of cases. Some of them are:- The public sentiment at the time- The conservative or liberal slant of the jury pool- The language contained in the statutes- The US Attorney's/ District Attorney's decision to seek death- The language contained in the jury's instructions- Mitigating Circumstances (i.e. was the person mentaly impaired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 There are many factors that bring about different outcomes in these types of cases. Some of them are:- The public sentiment at the time- The conservative or liberal slant of the jury pool- The language contained in the statutes- The US Attorney's/ District Attorney's decision to seek death- The language contained in the jury's instructions- Mitigating Circumstances (i.e. was the person mentaly impaired)Won't other defense lawyers across the U.S. use Moussoui as an example as to why THEIR client doesn't deserve the death penalty? Wouldn't the arguement be in court that if 9/11 gives a life sentence, why would a five-person homicide recieve something harsher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'll let RedScare answer that one, if he chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Won't other defense lawyers across the U.S. use Moussoui as an example as to why THEIR client doesn't deserve the death penalty? Wouldn't the arguement be in court that if 9/11 gives a life sentence, why would a five-person homicide recieve something harsher?hmmmmm.......................He should have been sent to the George Bush Hotel in Cuba.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 For the rest of his life he will ive in a 7' x 12' concrete cell 23 hours a day with a black and white TV broadcasting restricted religious and educational broadcasting. In the 24th hour, he will be allowed recreation in a similar cell with a view of the sky through a chain link fince. This is his sentence. He is 38 years old. He could live well into his 80's-but probably won't. He won't be paroled. He won't meet Leroy or Bruno, He will fade into history and die with a whimper as the judge said.Don't get all worked up that he didn't recieve the death penalty. he didn't. he got worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 For the rest of his life he will ive in a 7' x 12' concrete cell 23 hours a day with a black and white TV broadcasting restricted religious and educational broadcasting. In the 24th hour, he will be allowed recreation in a similar cell with a view of the sky through a chain link fince. This is his sentence. He is 38 years old. He could live well into his 80's-but probably won't. He won't be paroled. He won't meet Leroy or Bruno, He will fade into history and die with a whimper as the judge said.Don't get all worked up that he didn't recieve the death penalty. he didn't. he got worse.I just simply HATE that the American tax payers, you and I will have to pay to house this jackass for the rest of his life............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 france may seek moussaoui transfer (link)"A possible demand for transferring Zacarias Moussaoui could be looked at within this framework," Foreign Ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei said at an electronic press briefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmancuso Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Don't get me wrong, you know me, I love the death penalty, I think it is great. umm...wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I just simply HATE that the American tax payers, you and I will have to pay to house this jackass for the rest of his life............As has been said in other contexts, freedom isn't free. Neither is justice. Someone has to pay for the benefits that we enjoy as Americans, which includes the penal system. And frankly, tax dollars spent to punish a terrorist bother me less than the tax dollars not paid by the ultra-rich. Corruption of our political and economic system is a greater ongoing threat (and expense) to America than terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 umm...wow. It's ok Nancy, I know some are a bit squeemish about the Death Penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 As has been said in other contexts, freedom isn't free. Neither is justice. Someone has to pay for the benefits that we enjoy as Americans, which includes the penal system. And frankly, tax dollars spent to punish a terrorist bother me less than the tax dollars not paid by the ultra-rich. Corruption of our political and economic system is a greater ongoing threat (and expense) to America than terrorism.Let me be more clear...... i hate Americans spending tax dollars to house this terrorist jackass for the rest of his life....i hate his being given the rights of an American citizen with full access to our legal system and slimey lawyers. He is not a US citizen and shouldnt get the rights of a US citizen. Besides, theres plenty of room at the Bush Hotel in Cuba.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Let me be more clear...... i hate Americans spending tax dollars to house this terrorist jackass for the rest of his life....i hate his being given the rights of an American citizen with full access to our legal system and slimey lawyers. He is not a US citizen and shouldnt get the rights of a US citizen. Besides, theres plenty of room at the Bush Hotel in Cuba..........So, do you think that we should, now, send him to France, and let them "deal" with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 So, do you think that we should, now, send him to France, and let them "deal" with him?France may "demand" him (post #24)and...France provided information about Moussaoui to the United States on condition that it could not be used in a sentence leading to the death penalty, which it opposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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