Yet another Houston vs Dallas thread. Blah blah blah

[strickn]

Well, there still is one here at St. John’s

https://mavs.sjs.org/facilities

 

On 6/19/2022 at 3:57 PM, mkultra25 said:

I wish they would've come up with a more original name to begin with. We should've known what was coming when the best they could do was recycle a fifty-year-old name from a God-awful Dallas team that went 1-11 before being put out of its misery.

Not to nitpick but to nitpick… the team didn’t quite end like that, and won the AFL the next year too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Dallas_Texans_season

[strickn]

That franchise never was disbanded, either.

[mkultra25]

3 hours ago, strickn said:

Not to nitpick but to nitpick… the team didn’t quite end like that, and won the AFL the next year too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Dallas_Texans_season

Different team - I was referring to the 1952 NFL Texans, as opposed to the 1960s AFL team that subsequently became the Chiefs:

Dallas Texans (NFL)

[bobruss]

I might have missed it, but have they given a date for the Ismali center's opening. I imagine the interior work is going to take awhile considering the craftsmanship and attention to detail in some of the other centers. Also, is that going to be a glass curtain wall of some sort facing West Dallas, that's being constructed now. Truly remarkable, and to think we are the first in America. This will become a huge tourist draw from all over the states and abroad.  

MONARCH, this is one thing that austin and dallas won't have.

Ever!

[monarch]

On 11/25/2023 at 9:58 PM, bobruss said:

I might have missed it, but have they given a date for the Ismali center's opening. I imagine the interior work is going to take awhile considering the craftsmanship and attention to detail in some of the other centers. Also, is that going to be a glass curtain wall of some sort facing West Dallas, that's being constructed now. Truly remarkable, and to think we are the first in America. This will become a huge tourist draw from all over the states and abroad.  

MONARCH, this is one thing that austin and dallas won't have.

Ever!

^^^ @bobruss  actually, neither austin nor dallas would ever need such a monumental/iconic structure to give them stature.  both of those cities are growing by leaps and bounds and harbor all of the necessary bells and whistles to keep them in the gateway scene.  i was just in austin, tx at the TEXAS vs TEXAS TECH game the night after thanksgiving, that city is becoming a major powerhouse.  the austin skyline is going to become a futuristic phenomenon.  even i was a bit shocked at the number of cranes everywhere in downtown austin.  we have even been presented with a sneak peek of the brand new forthcoming RITZ CARLTON AUSTIN (64 floors with condominiums) yes, please feast your eyes upon the gorgeous new silver glassed tower right on the side of the forthcoming TALLEST TOWER IN TEXAS (waterline tower).  my goodness, houston can only dream about something as magnificent as this...

    

[KirbyDriveKid]

It is tall, and I love a tall tower. 

But the pickup-sticks cap is pretty silly.

[hbg.50]

On 11/25/2023 at 9:58 PM, bobruss said:

I might have missed it, but have they given a date for the Ismali center's opening. I imagine the interior work is going to take awhile considering the craftsmanship and attention to detail in some of the other centers. Also, is that going to be a glass curtain wall of some sort facing West Dallas, that's being constructed now. Truly remarkable, and to think we are the first in America. This will become a huge tourist draw from all over the states and abroad.  

MONARCH, this is one thing that austin and dallas won't have.

Ever!

I’ll take an iconic cultural center over a “soul-less” shiny object building any day!
Houston = Culture which is why the city was selected for this center in the first place.

[monarch]

37 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

I’ll take an iconic cultural center over a “soul-less” shiny object building any day!
Houston = Culture which is why the city was selected for this center in the first place.

^^^ @steve1363 (ok, i'll play) dude, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however, you are not entitled to your very own facts.  our fair city of houston has NEVER EVER been a center of "culture" throughout this great state of texas.  throughout, the many decades, houston has always been characterized as a "BLUE COLLAR CITY".  however, our fair city has always showcased the arguable and honorable distinction of being this great nation's center of diversity.  therefore, in my most humble opinion, this is the very direct reason that houston was chosen to construct our nation's first and foremost AGA KHAN ISMAILI CENTER HOUSTON.  heck, if there were any truth to your stunning claim that "houston = culture" then why on earth, is the "eighth wonder of the world... the ASTRODOME"... sitting and rotting out in the texas sun?  true cultural centers would never allow for this to happen.  could our fair city of houston ever become a true center of culture? of course, it can.  however, for this to occur,  the POWERS THAT BE... would have to alter their ULTRA CONSERVATIVE means of management and allow for the city to relax and breathe a bit... 

[KirbyDriveKid]

As opposed as I am to these fights...

Houston has been a cultural leader in Texas by any reasonable definition. Whether its fine art (Menil, MFAH); performing arts (Ballet, Symphony, Alley, Opera); popular arts (non-country music); global diversity (blowing Austin out of the water, see, e.g., Ismaili Center); food (authentic global, domestic, fushions). 

If one's definition of culture of Parisian boulevards, then we aren't that, but that definition would be woefully underinclusive.

I won't say that other cities don't have culture. Lots of great things in Texas. But don't knock down Houston to make that point. It misses the mark.

Our fair city is blue collar -- it makes stuff. Lucky for us one of the things it makes is culture. 

[hbg.50]

2 hours ago, KirbyDriveKid said:

As opposed as I am to these fights...

Houston has been a cultural leader in Texas by any reasonable definition. Whether its fine art (Menil, MFAH); performing arts (Ballet, Symphony, Alley, Opera); popular arts (non-country music); global diversity (blowing Austin out of the water, see, e.g., Ismaili Center); food (authentic global, domestic, fushions). 

If one's definition of culture of Parisian boulevards, then we aren't that, but that definition would be woefully underinclusive.

I won't say that other cities don't have culture. Lots of great things in Texas. But don't knock down Houston to make that point. It misses the mark.

Our fair city is blue collar -- it makes stuff. Lucky for us one of the things it makes is culture. 

You nailed it.  Houston’s blue collar grittiness is precisely what gives the city soul.  Although with the world class Texas Medical Center, NASA, and being the Energy Capital of the World, you have to be pretty out of touch to think Houston is just a “blue-collar” city.

Dallas is corporate America bland.

Austin cannot even be mentioned in the same breath with Houston nor Dallas…still a teenager just now growing up…

[freundb]

22 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ @bobruss  actually, neither austin nor dallas would ever need such a monumental/iconic structure to give them stature.  both of those cities are growing by leaps and bounds and harbor all of the necessary bells and whistles to keep them in the gateway scene.  i was just in austin, tx at the TEXAS vs TEXAS TECH game the night after thanksgiving, that city is becoming a major powerhouse.  the austin skyline is going to become a futuristic phenomenon.  even i was a bit shocked at the number of cranes everywhere in downtown austin.  we have even been presented with a sneak peek of the brand new forthcoming RITZ CARLTON AUSTIN (64 floors with condominiums) yes, please feast your eyes upon the gorgeous new silver glassed tower right on the side of the forthcoming TALLEST TOWER IN TEXAS (waterline tower).  my goodness, houston can only dream about something as magnificent as this...

    

So Austin is just getting a copy and paste from these towers in Helsinki? *yawn*

[bobruss]

Lets see how those towers in Austin when you'll be able to see right through them in the since most will be vacant and at night you wont even know some of them are there because there will be nobody in them for a while. Real estate in Austin is stagnant right now. Home prices are down considerably. I spoke with a good friend who has worked in commercial real estate there since 1995 and he said it is extremely slow and doesnt have a clue what's going to happen with all of the empty space. So it's really not any different there than here. WE will always be the leader in this state for the arts. When we lived in Austin in the 90's if it hadn't been for the Ransom center and the art museum on campus Austin would not have had a true art museum. They didnt have  an opera, a ballet, or an orchestra. Live theater was the comedy club down on 6th street a friend of mine from Houston started. So they're Johnny come lately's in my books. 

It is an impressive skyline I'll grant you that, but they have no choice but to bundle it all downtown in a tight little central center because there is no place else to build. 

Put downtown , the uptown galleria, the med center, greenway plaza and the energy corridor in that same area and think how impressive our downtown would look.

I'll take Houston over Dallas and Austin anyway. 

[ChannelTwoNews]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:20 PM, monarch said:

we have even been presented with a sneak peek of the brand new forthcoming RITZ CARLTON AUSTIN (64 floors with condominiums) yes, please feast your eyes upon the gorgeous new silver glassed tower right on the side of the forthcoming TALLEST TOWER IN TEXAS (waterline tower).  my goodness, houston can only dream about something as magnificent as this...

Mmmmm... vaporware.

Not Waterline.

Waterline is chunky and unfortunate looking - much like myself - but at least it is vertical and still under construction. Also like me.

Modern (behind Waterline) is also going up right now. 

The Ritz probably won't be coming out of the ground any time soon, if at all.

The same developer (M2) tried to get both the Nashville and Austin towers built at the same time and it's not going well to say the least. The signs are already down at that site in the former - and it was further ahead in the development process than the Austin one. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by ChannelTwoNews
m2 Link

[Amlaham]

21 hours ago, monarch said:

our fair city of houston has NEVER EVER been a center of "culture" throughout this great state of texas.  throughout, the many decades, houston has always been characterized as a "BLUE COLLAR CITY".  however, our fair city has always showcased the arguable and honorable distinction of being this great nation's center of diversity. 

These 2 statements almost feel contradicting towards each other. Diversity itself, almost always creates culture. Think of the melting pot theory; different people from all over the world and the country come together to this city and share their own culture. For example, diversity is what allowed Houston to have the only China Town in the entire state. The only Mahatma Gandhi (Brown/ Desi) district in the entire state. Also,

• Houston has the 3rd largest concentration of consulates in the country, representing 86 nations (lots of culture to go around) (By FAR the most in the entire state)
• Our Theatre district is home to 9 world class performing arts organization with 12,000 seats (only NYC has more than us).
• Our Opera is the ONLY company in the world to win a Tony, 2 Grammy, and 2 Emmy awards. The NYT even called the Houston Grand Opera "the Jewel in the Culture Crown"   
• The Houston Museum District is one of the largest in the country and boosts WAY more visitors than any other city in Texas BY FAR (no other Texas museums are even in the top 30 of most visited in the country)
• We have the highest ranked University in the entire state (Rice)
• We still have the largest Skyline in all of Texas by FAR 
• Extremely less important, but Houston is one of the only cities in Texas with a "Midtown" neighborhood 

Kind of weird that considering all this^, you wouldn't consider Houston the culture center of Texas all because our leaders don't know what to do with the Astrodome and we're not building a new tall stick out the ground. By your definition, Austin has more culture than Paris or any other European city that isn't building a new skyscraper.

Also, the idea that being a "blue collar city" (which I don't fully agree with) makes Houston less fit to being the culture center of Texas is extremely belittling. By that definition, you have to be rich to have culture? No culture in Morocco? Mexico? Egypt, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Hungry.... the list can keep going on poorer countries/ cities that have WAY more culture than ANY Texas city can even dream of having. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Amlaham

[s3mh]

It is hard to compare Houston to DFW if you just look at the arts because DFW dilutes its arts scene between the two metro areas.  So, on one level there is a lot more going on in DFW.  They have two orchestras, two ballets, two operas, two major art museums, dueling chamber music societies, etc.  On any given week, you will have more choices in the DFW area than Houston.  Houston's orchestra has lagged behind Dallas, but has recently caught up.  Hopefully, renovations to Jones Hall will make it into an actual concert hall instead of a civic center that ruins symphony concerts with horrible acoustics.  Houston's opera and ballet are definitely better than DFWs.  Rice U's music school is better than SMU's by a good bit.  But the one thing DFW has is an actual jazz scene thanks to the proximity to UNT (and UNT has a jazz scene that is better than Houston's).  If DFW was just a single metro area, I think their arts scene would be superior to Houston's.  DFW has a much longer and deeper tradition of supporting the arts.  Houston has been very fortunate that its major arts institutions have had excellent leadership and have in many ways performed on a much higher level than you would expect for a southern city.  San Antonio's orchestra went bankrupt.  Austin's symphony is a "per service" orchestra where are the musicians do not get a salary.  In the early 2000s, Houston's orchestra had some management issues and labor discord.  But the orchestra brought in new leadership and things have been going very well since then.  

[hbg.50]

40 minutes ago, s3mh said:

Houston's orchestra has lagged behind Dallas, but has recently caught up.  Hopefully, renovations to Jones Hall will make it into an actual concert hall instead of a civic center that ruins symphony concerts with horrible acoustics. 

Says who?  Yes, the Meyerson is a fine hall (designed for acoustics) but the orchestras have generally been at the same level forever.  Jones Hall is a beautiful and elegant Hall.  You say it ruins symphony concerts.  That’s a joke and I doubt that 99% of concert-goers would even notice a missed note, much less acoustical differences.

46 minutes ago, s3mh said:

DFW has a much longer and deeper tradition of supporting the arts. 

Oh really?  This is news to me.  The Kimball in Fort Worth is by far the nicest museum in DFW.  You may have heard that the Dallas Museum of Art just approved an expansion.  I hope it goes well.  Their current building is clunky for an art museum.  They also announced they were laying off 8% of their staff…so much for supporting the arts.  The Kalita Humphreys Theater has fallen into disrepair - the only Frank Lloyd Wright designed freestanding theater in the country.  Again, so much for supporting the arts…

55 minutes ago, s3mh said:

and have in many ways performed on a much higher level than you would expect for a southern city.

This is one of the more condescending remarks I’ve seen on HAIF.  🤣 Are you a Parisian?  We actually have running water and electricity in the South!  Again, if people were listening to the radio I doubt that most people could distinguish between the Boston Symphony, The Cleveland Orchestra, The NY Philharmonic, or the Austin Symphony.  Maybe you are a paid music critic and you could.  Arrogance turns me off the most when it comes to the arts.

[__nevii]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:20 AM, Twinsanity02 said:

Houston is massive and has impressive regions: The Texas Medical center, the gigantic petrochemical complex and shipping channel, Downtown and Uptown with gleaming skyscrapers, and NASA. These are all serious economic engines. Regardless, they are not fun or "sexy" areas tourists like to visit (except for NASA). Until a few years back Houston did not even consider its downtown anything but a work place destination which vacated after 6:00 pm (except for the Theater district). Progress has been made in making the city more fun, but not at the level of NYC, Nola, or Miami. Most probable we will never reach that level of attraction. I must admit I am stumped regarding DFW. I would give DFW the same attributes of impressiveness as Houston but do not understand the attraction tourist have for it. Perhaps someone in this forum knows.

It's always interesting to see NOLA in this types of threads. Because, to me, the appeal of that side provides a direct falsification to a lot of the features that people claim as "handicaps" regarding the ability of Houston to "move forward." 

For instance, it's interesting how the terminology of "swamp" is used as a derogatory when describing the landscape, weather, etc of the Houston area compared to Austin, Dallas, and other inland Texas cities. But, notice how that very same attribute contributes heavily to the "mystique" that, along with the historical culture and demographics, generates a level of appeal regarding that city.

It's the very same thing with climate. On sites like reddit or elsehwere, a lot of opposition regarding "walkability" in Houston is common refrains of how "its too hot to ever happen." Meanwhile, New Orleans a state away provides direct demonstration of hot, humid walkability, including infrastructural designs, sidewalks, dense mixed-use, etc. A similar phenomenon goes regarding the appeals seen in SE coastal cities such as Charleston, Savannah, as well as St. Augustine in Florida.

Most recently, there's quite a bit of buzz regarding many US cities going through processes of "loosening" their zoning codes. And it's very interesting because in the past (even just, like 10 years ago), the common critique is how "Houston is unplanned mess due to lack of zoning": people talk about "Houston being an example of how NOT to plan your city" (nevermind that a lot of the issues that people refer to regarding sprawl are more the result of suburbanization enabled by Federal policies, along with State-level codes such as the TXDOT legislation, lax county powers, MUDs, etc). Now, it's turning out that Houston was "right" all along regarding the approach to eucledian zoning — and the city actually did not have any mandates regarding setbacks and parking minimums until 1982 and 1989, respectively ... so it's possible that the rhetoric is problematic as it might have caused leaders to "adopt" these policies due to wanting to avoid negative PR of "being unplanned."

Hence, at this point, a lot of these "critiques" against the city, to me, just turn into a "badge of honor" if you will. Gotta truly embrace the "Great Unzoned City in the Swamp": great for building headquarters like this for a master plan 😁

The first step? ELIMINATE PARKING MINIMUMS.

Edited December 1, 2023 by __nevii

[__nevii]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:30 PM, mattyt36 said:

From my observations (which admittedly are always biased and sometimes dangerous), it seems to me that Austin rising in prominence has hurt Dallas's image way more than Houston's. 

In a way, this is a good point. If Houston "was never on the radar to begin with", then the "rise of Austin" would be more a threat to DFW rather than Houston when in consideration of many "white collar sensibilities". I recall from demographic data that Houston's population growth has greater reliance on international migration, compared to both Austin and DFW that rely more on domestic migrants — and this does bear out, I notice that a lot more of the whole "Californians jacking everything up" rhetoric comes more heavily from Ausitn and Dallas areas relative to Houston. Meanwhile, Houston's greater international growth would me it more "removed from it all", especially when people oversesas might not necessarily be aligned with US domestic sensibilities (and that, if channeled, can go a long way regarding the ease at which "middle housing" policies, parking mandate cancellations, etc are dealt with).

Edited December 2, 2023 by __nevii

[__nevii]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:44 AM, editor said:

If you don't want people to think that Houston has an inferiority complex, then perhaps you should stop compulsively comparing yourselves to Dallas.

In many ways, I actually do agree with this. While there's certainly quite some context concerning decades-old sports conflicts, I ultimately don't care for "fixations" that people might have regarding Dallas (and vice-versa): I just don't see any "goal" there is to derive from it. Matter of fact, the same applies to comparisons regarding places like NYC, Los Angeles, etc — those are very preeminent, well-loved cities for sure, but none of it is a "threat" to my liking of Houston (especially regarding the ability of the city to resolve the issues it has). 

I guess it sort of comes from discussions in urbanist circles that have become more prominent ever since the rise of StrongTowns, NotJustBikes, etc — it all reframes the debate in a way that more actionable, solutions-orientated pathways become more in greater focus. It stands in stark contrast to older discussions that I've seen across forums (from like, a decade or more back), wherein problems like "Houston's lack of tourism", "city just for work," "sprawl just cuz flat land, etc" were all treated as some sort of predestined outcome (as if there was some "God" of sorts that planned for the outcome).

As far as any "inferiority complexes", those types of accusations ultimately don't matter when looking in terms of the truth value of propositions: it's all just ad homienms dressed up as paperback pop-psych. As the saying goes, "The map is not the territory."

[strickn]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:42 AM, august948 said:

I was disappointed at first when I heard we weren't getting the Enterprise shuttle, but what we got was so much cooler...

Good point.  

 

"This was the largest item to arrive at the JSC dock since a Saturn V arrived for display in 1977."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Independence

[hbg.50]

For what it’s worth The Dallas Morning News music critic, Scott Cantrell, seems to make an annual visit to Houston to watch Houston Grand Opera and Houston Symphony performances.  He loves the Houston Grand Opera and even raves about the acoustics in The Wortham.  On the other hand, he degrades Jones Hall as being inferior to Dallas’ Meyerson, Fort Worth’s Bass Hall, and San Antonio’s Tobin Hall.  He posted reviews in mid-2022 and January 2024.  Here are a few excerpts..

Quote

Reviews: In Houston, a gloriously sung ‘Parsifal’ and an eloquent symphony concert

Both Houston Grand Opera and the Houston Symphony did themselves proud.

The Jan. 20 weekend offered a Houston Grand Opera production of Wagner’s Parsifal and a Houston Symphony concert of requiems by Brahms and Takemitsu. It was also my first chance to hear the orchestra under Juraj Valcuha (YOU-rye val-CHUA), in his second season as music director. Both performances were top notch.

Never staged in Dallas, Parsifal, Wagner’s last opera, had a top flight cast in Houston. The production, originally staged by John Caird for Lyric Opera of Chicago, did the job, if without clarifying all the opera’s actions. I saw the Jan. 21 matinee.

Houston Symphony: subtle finesse in two requiems

If the Jan. 20 Jones Hall concert was any indication, the Houston Symphony may be in for a new golden age. In the Brahms and Takemitsu requiems, Valcuha had the orchestra playing with great finesse and exquisite nuance.

At least in this concert, the Houston Symphony violins were in excellent discipline — more consistently so than the DSO’s these days. Compared to the DSO’s warm and supple winds, though, Houston’s again struck me as lacking poetry — and not always feeling the music together.

All the string sections were finely displayed in Takemitsu’s 1957 Requiem, 10 minutes of music that seems to shuffle through stages of grief. Here, too, Valcuha gave the music the most exquisite shape and pliancy.

For all the attempts to improve Jones Hall acoustics over the years — most recently a new stage shell and reinforcement of the stage floor — it still gives nothing back to the performers. Onstage, it must be like singing and playing into a mattress. There’s no hiding the tiniest slip in timing or tuning.

The latest amendments do seem to give the orchestra more presence out in the room, and a more even balance of frequencies, low to high. Dallas’ Meyerson Symphony Center, by contrast, gives the orchestra visceral impact in the room, plus an enveloping glow of controlled reverberation that can linger as much as three seconds without muddying the sound. In both sound and audience comforts, Jones Hall is also far outclassed by Fort Worth’s Bass Performance Hall and San Antonio’s Tobin Center.

Cantrell also flew to New York last year just to check out the acoustics in the renovated Geffen Hall.  He wrote satisfyingly that the acoustics in the DFW halls were still superior to New York!  He cracks me up but I enjoy reading his reviews.  He’s from a bygone era…

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, steve1363 said:

For what it’s worth The Dallas Morning News music critic, Scott Cantrell, seems to make an annual visit to Houston to watch Houston Grand Opera and Houston Symphony performances.  He loves the Houston Grand Opera and even raves about the acoustics in The Wortham.  On the other hand, he degrades Jones Hall as being inferior to Dallas’ Meyerson, Fort Worth’s Bass Hall, and San Antonio’s Tobin Hall.  He posted reviews in mid-2022 and January 2024.  Here are a few excerpts..

Cantrell also flew to New York last year just to check out the acoustics in the renovated Geffen Hall.  He wrote satisfyingly that the acoustics in the DFW halls were still superior to New York!  He cracks me up but I enjoy reading his reviews.  He’s from a bygone era…

I read that review too.  He kinda shortchanged the review of the symphony by spending so much time denigrating the hall.  But I really wondered how he, as an audience member, could tell how it sounds to the performers?  And aren't "must be like singing or playing into a mattress" and "There’s no hiding the tiniest slip in timing or tuning" contradictory?

Edited January 30 by Houston19514

[hbg.50]

4 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

And aren't "must be like singing or playing into a mattress" and "There’s no hiding the tiniest slip in timing or tuning" contradictory?

I had the same reaction as you.  The only thing I can think of is he’s arguing that the 3 second reverberation in The Meyerson is more forgiving for the players because it conceals tiny errors in their playing.

He’s a hoot!

[hbg.50]

Dallas Morning News music critic makes another trip to Houston and writes a glowing review of the Houston Symphony’s Mahler 6th performance.

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/performing-arts/2024/03/21/mahler-is-a-test-for-orchestras-in-dallas-fort-worth-and-houston/

Quote

 

An impressive Sixth Symphony in Houston

Trained in conservatories in his native Slovakia as well as St. Petersburg and Paris, Valcuha impressed me in a 2019 guest conducting gig with the DSO. “Without missing a bit of excitement,” I wrote, “Valcuha carefully managed pace, color, texture and balances. This is a conductor I want to see again.”…
 

Valcuha’s Jan. 20 Houston performance of the Brahms German Requiem was so deeply felt and so elegantly shaped that I couldn’t resist a chance to hear him in Mahler….
 

Valcuha obviously had worked out everything — including his own gestures — in considerable detail. The orchestra gave him, and Mahler, a performance riveting start to finish.

 

I’m glad to see our Symphony being recognized.  There are few things in Dallas that are superior to Houston, but the DMN is leaps and bounds better than The Houston Chronicle!

 

Edited March 21 by steve1363

[ChannelTwoNews]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:46 PM, ChannelTwoNews said:

The Ritz probably won't be coming out of the ground any time soon, if at all.

The same developer (M2) tried to get both the Nashville and Austin towers built at the same time and it's not going well to say the least. The signs are already down at that site in the former - and it was further ahead in the development process than the Austin one. 

For what it's worth, the land for the Nashville tower just sold at a foreclosure auction. 

The original developer of both projects continues to face heat. From that article, some developments since November...

"Two liens have also been filed against the property.

Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP, a Chicago-based architect on the project, filed notice of lien on the property on Dec. 22, for nearly $2 million, according to Metro records. Nashville-based Ragan-Smith Associates Inc., an engineer on the project, also filed notice of lien on Nov. 7, claiming an outstanding balance of $20,286."

[ChannelTwoNews]

On 4/16/2024 at 1:59 PM, ChannelTwoNews said:

For what it's worth, the land for the Nashville tower just sold at a foreclosure auction. 

The original developer of both projects continues to face heat. From that article, some developments since November...

"Two liens have also been filed against the property.

Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP, a Chicago-based architect on the project, filed notice of lien on the property on Dec. 22, for nearly $2 million, according to Metro records. Nashville-based Ragan-Smith Associates Inc., an engineer on the project, also filed notice of lien on Nov. 7, claiming an outstanding balance of $20,286."

It's getting worse for the developer of the proposed Nashville & Austin Ritz projects...

Nashville Ritz-Carlton developer loses lawsuit, ordered to pay millions - Nashville Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

"Oakworth is requesting Morris pay roughly $11.46 million “plus attorneys’ fees and expenses equal to $64,255.27, court costs and post-judgment interest,” according to court documents."