Uptown Dallas Density

[Trae]

That is what I was thinking.

[nucklehead]

Yeah -- the area around Fair Park and Deep Ellum is probably a better comparison to Midtown Houston in terms of challenges, momentum, proximity and promise.

Yes. The eastern side of Midtown spills into a neighborhood of row houses in one of the wards. My question would be is a ward considered a ghetto? I don't really know if Houston has any ghettos. What is considered a ghetto? If it is a ghetto, should it be called a ghetto? I can see where potential residents in the area might feel that crime pours forth into Midtown from that neighborhood. Do you think that area is a hindrance to growth in Midtown?

[TxDave]

Yeah -- the area around Fair Park and Deep Ellum is probably a better comparison to Midtown Houston in terms of challenges, momentum, proximity and promise.

I disagree - I think Dallas' equivalent to Houston Midtown is the area of East Dallas along Ross Ave, Live Oak, etc.

I think they are similar in their histories as "downtown extensions" that, once grand, came upon hard times and were gutted for redevelopment that has only recently started to occur. They should both do great once the new development momentum takes off.

[nucklehead]

I disagree - I think Dallas' equivalent to Houston Midtown is the area of East Dallas along Ross Ave, Live Oak, etc.

I think they are similar in their histories as "downtown extensions" that, once grand, came upon hard times and were gutted for redevelopment that has only recently started to occur. They should both do great once the new development momentum takes off.

Dallas actually has nothing like Midtown. Midtown has well organized square blocks like downtown and the city just got through rebuilding a lot of them a few years ago. Take a peak at a satellite photo of the area.

[nucklehead]

I agree with you red for the most part but I think that the only way this would hurt downtown was if it was 50% vacant and up.Because........ if dallas only had 100 buildings downtown and let's say our vacancy rate was 30% that would mean 30 of the 100 would be empty.And what your saying is this would then cause an increase of crime (which it's possible) Undesireable to tourist, no business travelers would enjoy downtown.....That is untrue...because if just 30 empty buildings could cause all of this then What are the other 70 buildings doing.....................Nothing? And to keep things in perspective...DtD is on 22% vacant not even 30%.

When considering the office market of DFW, one has to ingore the outside opinions of it especially if they happen to be made by New York City investers. They generally don't understand the volatility of such a market where millions of square feet office space empties out quickly during recessions and likewise fills up quickly during economic expansions. Consider that office buildings have been built in downtown Dallas while it has this large vacancy rate.

One should not be overly concerned with high vacancy rates in volatile markets like DFW, Atlanta and Chicago. Now a high vacancy rate in a city like Houston might last for a century. Fortunately for that city, it has huge oil companies who require large blocks of space when they expand.

[Trae]

When considering the office market of DFW, one has to ingore the outside opinions of it especially if they happen to be made by New York City investers. They generally don't understand the volatility of such a market where millions of square feet office space empties out quickly during recessions and likewise fills up quickly during economic expansions. Consider that office buildings have been built in downtown Dallas while it has this large vacancy rate.

One should not be overly concerned with high vacancy rates in volatile markets like DFW, Atlanta and Chicago. Now a high vacancy rate in a city like Houston might last for a century. Fortunately for that city, it has huge oil companies who require large blocks of space when they expand.

Yeah, okay in the 80's when Houston's vacancy rate skyrocketed, it got filled up again in less than 10 years. Those office towers going up in DT Dallas are in pure specalation. They are getting tenants, but those tenants are leaving other DT office buildings. Like that helps with vacancy.

[nucklehead]

When considering the office market of DFW, one has to ingore the outside opinions of it especially if they happen to be made by New York City investers. They generally don't understand the volatility of such a market where millions of square feet office space empties out quickly during recessions and likewise fills up quickly during economic expansions. Consider that office buildings have been built in downtown Dallas while it has this large vacancy rate.

One should not be overly concerned with high vacancy rates in volatile markets like DFW, Atlanta and Chicago. Now a high vacancy rate in a city like Houston might last for a century. Fortunately for that city, it has huge oil companies who require large blocks of space when they expand.

When the expanding employment in DFW gets back to the levels it was when the area was adding 125,000 to 150,000 employees a year, then that office space will quickly dwindle. Then it will be absorbing 5 to 8 million square feet a year like it was in the late 90s / early 2000s. While downtown Dallas office space remained empty after the 80 recession partly because a prejudice that made suburban offices preferred, now it remains slow because of the popularity of the Uptown / Art's District area. But it is just one big area. Why people seperate the whole core area into 2 parts is a mystery.

[KinkaidAlum]

When the expanding employment in DFW gets back to the levels it was when the area was adding 125,000 to 150,000 employees a year, then that office space will quickly dwindle. Then it will be absorbing 5 to 8 million square feet a year like it was in the late 90s / early 2000s. While downtown Dallas office space remained empty after the 80 recession partly because a prejudice that made suburban offices preferred, now it remains slow because of the popularity of the Uptown / Art's District area. But it is just one big area. Why people seperate the whole core area into 2 parts is a mystery.

Downtown Dallas didn't empty out due to the dot.com or tech bubble bust. It emptied out because major employers kept moving to Irving (Las Colinas), Plano, and Richardson.

Downtown Dallas has been one of the worst office markets for quite awhile now. Building shiny new towers across the freeway certainly wont help fill the older towers in downtown proper! Several downtown employers have already announced their intentions to move to Uptown. That's BAD for downtown no matter how hard Big D Cheerleaders try to chant the opposite.

[Trae]

But..Uptown is essentially Downtown!

[nucklehead]

Downtown Dallas didn't empty out due to the dot.com or tech bubble bust. It emptied out because major employers kept moving to Irving (Las Colinas), Plano, and Richardson.

Downtown Dallas has been one of the worst office markets for quite awhile now. Building shiny new towers across the freeway certainly wont help fill the older towers in downtown proper! Several downtown employers have already announced their intentions to move to Uptown. That's BAD for downtown no matter how hard Big D Cheerleaders try to chant the opposite.

Figure in the future that the DFW area will attract at least 1 to 2 large corporations a year to relocate to the area. On top of this is the expected increase in employment back to the numbers of 120,000 to 150,000 jobs a year. How does one supply office space for such growth? It has always been difficult to do in the DFW area. They had years when the market was gobbling up 8 to 10 million square feet a year and then the bubble burst with it emptying back out.

Houston seemed to have just the opposite situation happen than Dallas. Uptown is the area that went stale after the 80's bust. There have been lots of development for sure, but nothing like it was back in the early 80s. Remember the blue 30 story building that sat empty for all those years in the Greenway Plaza development? How much more office space have they built in that area since then? How much in the Uptown area as a whole? How many years old is that William's tower now?

I think downtown Dallas will be doing fabulous during the next 5 years after the next phase of the Art's District opens, the next phase of the Light Rail opens and as phases of the Trinity River Project get completed.

[KinkaidAlum]

Figure in the future that the DFW area will attract at least 1 to 2 large corporations a year to relocate to the area. On top of this is the expected increase in employment back to the numbers of 120,000 to 150,000 jobs a year. How does one supply office space for such growth? It has always been difficult to do in the DFW area. They had years when the market was gobbling up 8 to 10 million square feet a year and then the bubble burst with it emptying back out.

Houston seemed to have just the opposite situation happen than Dallas. Uptown is the area that went stale after the 80's bust. There have been lots of development for sure, but nothing like it was back in the early 80s. Remember the blue 30 story building that sat empty for all those years in the Greenway Plaza development? How much more office space have they built in that area since then? How much in the Uptown area as a whole? How many years old is that William's tower now?

I think downtown Dallas will be doing fabulous during the next 5 years after the next phase of the Art's District opens, the next phase of the Light Rail opens and as phases of the Trinity River Project get completed.

But that's the difference between Houston and Dallas. In Houston, when vacancies grew and rental rates flopped, we stopped spec building. Downtown Dallas has a glut of office space. City-wide vacancy rates in the Big D are generally over 20% and have been for years. Now is NOT the time to be throwing up a bunch of spec office towers. All of the shiny new towers in Uptown Dallas are going to certainly push the dismal downtown office market down further.

Here are the facts according to Delta Associates for mid-year 2007 office markets.

Net Absorption of office space in 2nd quarter 2007

1,200,000 square feet in Houston

928,000 square feet in DFW

% of standing inventory available as sublease space

0.8% Houston

1.0% DFW

Overall Vacancy rate

11.3% Houston (under 10% in downtown Houston)

17.4% DFW (over 20% in downtown Dallas)

Under construction

5,000,000 square feet in Houston

6,900,000 square feet in DFW

Under construction not pre-leased

3,800,000 square feet in Houston

3,864,000 square feet in DFW

Class A lease rates

$23.44 in Houston

$21.82 in DFW

Growth in lease rates in 2007

15.9% in Houston

2.2% in DFW

The fact that DFW is building more office space at the moment despite lower lease rates and MUCH higher vacancy rates is irresponsible. These are not signs of a healthy market...

[Trae]

You should be banned for posting facts to nucklehead.

[nucklehead]

But that's the difference between Houston and Dallas. In Houston, when vacancies grew and rental rates flopped, we stopped spec building. Downtown Dallas has a glut of office space. City-wide vacancy rates in the Big D are generally over 20% and have been for years. Now is NOT the time to be throwing up a bunch of spec office towers. All of the shiny new towers in Uptown Dallas are going to certainly push the dismal downtown office market down further.

Here are the facts according to Delta Associates for mid-year 2007 office markets.

Net Absorption of office space in 2nd quarter 2007

1,200,000 square feet in Houston

928,000 square feet in DFW

% of standing inventory available as sublease space

0.8% Houston

1.0% DFW

Overall Vacancy rate

11.3% Houston (under 10% in downtown Houston)

17.4% DFW (over 20% in downtown Dallas)

Under construction

5,000,000 square feet in Houston

6,900,000 square feet in DFW

Under construction not pre-leased

3,800,000 square feet in Houston

3,864,000 square feet in DFW

Class A lease rates

$23.44 in Houston

$21.82 in DFW

Growth in lease rates in 2007

15.9% in Houston

2.2% in DFW

The fact that DFW is building more office space at the moment despite lower lease rates and MUCH higher vacancy rates is irresponsible. These are not signs of a healthy market...

I agree. So either all these speculators are fools or they know the market of the area more intimately than outsiders. Look. Houston has no place like Uptown right now first of all. Uptown has reached such a critical mass right now that even an empty office building is a great investment there. A lot of developments in that area have been announced to start to match the expected opening date of the next phase of the Art's District. As that expected date becomes even more apparent to developers, expect lots more developments to begin. As I keep stating, the next phase of the light rail line and the phases of the Trinity River Project will be opening up during that time also to further enhance development.

The Real Estate in Dallas doesn't recover all at once. As there are some districts that never seem to suffer through a recession, like the little urban area of Preston Center, other districts never seem to recover during a recovery, like downtown. Developers realize that a recovery is under way in the area because statistics start improving outwardly from the successful districts towards the less successful districts. Areas like Las Colinas and North Dallas seem to recover over night when things turn around. Apparently developers think that is about to happen in Dallas.

As I have already mentioned, didn't new development in Houston skip out of town from the area of Uptown to the new area of Westchase after the city recovered from its severe oil depression? While downtown Dallas never seemed to fully recover after the 80 collapse, that similar area in Houston was not its downtown but the Uptown area.

Another bothersome aspect about the office market in Houston is how the oil companies never seemed to go through a belt tightening like other industries in the rest of the nation went through. In other words, even though the office vacancy is so low in Houston, things can change really fast. Take the Enron scandel for example. Boom! All of the sudden you have a whole industry either going bankrupt or fleeing from the city and you have millions of square feet of empty office space.

So cities like Dallas, Atlanta, New York City and Chicago don't play by the same rules as other cities. You have to blur your eyes when looking at the vacancy of their office market.

And don't forget, a lot more growth is expected in the next 20 years in DFW than in the Houston metro. According to the figures I've seen, the DFW population now stands at over 6.3 million people surpassing Philadelphia as the 4th largest area in the nation. Houston's metropolitan population is some 600, 000 behind at about 5.7 million. Because DFW has a lot more available land to expand, this figure is expected to grow by a few million in the next couple of decades. So you have to take this growth into account.

[RedScare]

Where do you come up with this stuff? You have more wrong info in one post than most people could come up with in a month. You do realize that Houston hardly blinked when Enron went belly up, don't you? Of course you don't. If you did, you wouldn't keep printing it. As for downtown Dallas emptying out, then filling back up, the numbers prove you wrong. Downtown Dallas collapsed in the mid 1980s. It never has recovered. It has had vacancy rates of more than 20% for the last 20 years. Developers have packed up and moved elsewhere...like the northern suburbs, Las Colinas, and Uptown.

By the way, the reason no one combines Uptown and Downtown is because they are two separate areas, even if they butt up against each other. They have different, zoning, ordinances, and rules. Downtown, also known as the CBD, has its own set of rules, separate and distinct from the rest of the city. If you want to end the "confusion", write your city councilman and ask him to change the ordinance.

[nucklehead]

You should be banned for posting facts to nucklehead.

I really don't know how to respond to this post so I'll just take this time to discuss a matter I've been pondering lately.

Do you realize that a port is being built south of Dallas to help serve the Port of Houston? A container port built there a few years ago is doing far better than anyone ever could have imagined largely because of the events that effected the transportation infrastructure along the Gulf coast a few years ago. As you can make the argument that Houston is far safer than Galveston as a viable seaport because of its distance from the Gulf, you can also make a similar argument that the southern area of Dallas is more secure than Houston. As some of the business Houston received from New Orlean's misfortune will permanently remain in Houston, a lot of the business that one would have normally expected to be placed along the Gulf coast will now be repositioned in a more secure area of South Dallas.

As the port of Houston certainly benefits today from the practical destruction of the city of New Orleans, an argument can also be made that the area of south Dallas will likewise benefit because of the accumulative effects that both the Katrina and Rita hurricanes had on the overall transportation infrastructures of highways and railroads along the coasts of southeast Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. And figure that because of global warming in the future more powerful hurricanes will be spawned in the Gulf as water levels around the world continue to rise. All these factors make the port in South Dallas a smart decision.

As the city of Galveston was once the second best place to live in the United States with its second wealthiest citizenry per capitol, the city of Houston now serves in a similar fashion 50 miles further inland today. Still, Houston could easily suffer the same fate that Galveston never fully recovered from and as New Orleans most certainly will never recover from likewise. Do you realize that Houston is 50 miles closer to the coast than New Orleans is? Do you realize how massive the destruction would be if a hurricane hit Houston as it did New Orleans? Granted, Houston does have a higher elevation. Still, the destruction would be far more extinsive in the city of Houston if the eye of a Katrina-like hurricane travelled up Galveston Bay.

In conclusion, as the port of Houston benefits as the seaport of the DFW area, it also serves as its seaport.

[Gary]

I really don't know how to respond to this post so I'll just take this time to discuss a matter I've been pondering lately.

Do you realize that a port is being built south of Dallas to help serve the Port of Houston? A container port built there a few years ago is doing far better than anyone ever could have imagined largely because of the events that effected the transportation infrastructure along the Gulf coast a few years ago. As you can make the argument that Houston is far safer than Galveston as a viable seaport because of its distance from the Gulf, you can also make a similar argument that the southern area of Dallas is more secure than Houston. As some of the business Houston received from New Orlean's misfortune will permanently remain in Houston, a lot of the business that one would have normally expected to be placed along the Gulf coast will now be repositioned in a more secure area of South Dallas.

As the port of Houston certainly benefits today from the practical destruction of the city of New Orleans, an argument can also be made that the area of south Dallas will likewise benefit because of the accumulative effects that both the Katrina and Rita hurricanes had on the overall transportation infrastructures of highways and railroads along the coasts of southeast Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. And figure that because of global warming in the future more powerful hurricanes will be spawned in the Gulf as water levels around the world continue to rise. All these factors make the port in South Dallas a smart decision.

As the city of Galveston was once the second best place to live in the United States with its second wealthiest citizenry per capitol, the city of Houston now serves in a similar fashion 50 miles further inland today. Still, Houston could easily suffer the same fate that Galveston never fully recovered from and as New Orleans most certainly will never recover from likewise. Do you realize that Houston is 50 miles closer to the coast than New Orleans is? Do you realize how massive the destruction would be if a hurricane hit Houston as it did New Orleans? Granted, Houston does have a higher elevation. Still, the destruction would be far more extinsive in the city of Houston if the eye of a Katrina-like hurricane travelled up Galveston Bay.

In conclusion, as the port of Houston benefits as the seaport of the DFW area, it also serves as its seaport.

My friend, your lack of knowledge and obvious bias will get you chewed up on this forum. What I mean is that there are to many people here that know what their talking about, which you obviously don't. In fact I'm not sure where you going at all with the above post.

I would hush if i were you.

[nucklehead]

Where do you come up with this stuff? You have more wrong info in one post than most people could come up with in a month. You do realize that Houston hardly blinked when Enron went belly up, don't you? Of course you don't. If you did, you wouldn't keep printing it. As for downtown Dallas emptying out, then filling back up, the numbers prove you wrong. Downtown Dallas collapsed in the mid 1980s. It never has recovered. It has had vacancy rates of more than 20% for the last 20 years. Developers have packed up and moved elsewhere...like the northern suburbs, Las Colinas, and Uptown.

By the way, the reason no one combines Uptown and Downtown is because they are two separate areas, even if they butt up against each other. They have different, zoning, ordinances, and rules. Downtown, also known as the CBD, has its own set of rules, separate and distinct from the rest of the city. If you want to end the "confusion", write your city councilman and ask him to change the ordinance.

The Enron fiasco did not help the office market in the city of Houston. If anything, it gave the city a severe black eye for decades to come in regards to investor trust. The corporations relocating to Houston to make up for the loss of or bankruptcys of Enron, Williams, El Paso, Dynegy, amongst others, were mostly oil related companies. That certainly won't help its office market in the long run because investors learned a painful lesson in the 80s that such lack of diversity in an economy will have trouble filling back up empty office space.

Doesn't this help explain why office construction continues in Dallas while its office vacancy remains high? The speculators have more confidence in its market. Expanding Light Rail in the area amongst other factors has helped create more optimism in regards to speculation. They certainly believe that growth will be greater in DFW than in Houston. They believe that employment numbers will pick back up to average over 100,000 again.

The city of Dallas also has more quality office space than Houston. This kind of space exists in small office buildings and warehouses. These are the kinds of spaces taken up by small businesses. Small businesses in turn out grow large corporations and they ultimately pay their employees better. Tall office buildings aren't necessarily a sign of a healthy economy. Such buildings can be subsidized by socialism. Take a look at China where its economy is still subsidizing a 60,000,000 member communist party?

[Mister X]

But all of uptown Dallas could be wiped out in a matter of minutes if a tornado were to rip through it. I saw it on T.V. Dallas will never recover just like NO and Galveston never recovered. The trinity river project failure will cause the river to back up like a giant overflowing toilet all over the ruins of uptown Dallas and then what will you have? The water will have no place to drain and everyone will have to move to Houston just like when Galveston and NO were completely destroyed. The united states government will not allow any more construction in Dallas because it is such a risky area to build on. And then what about global warming. What will happen when the super dry hot summers in Dallas cause the tempreture to average about 140 all year long. Scientist predict that in 40 years or less the entire DFW area will not even exist because people won't be able to breath there in the summer. There is a giant ozone hole opening up, somewhere over Irving that will cause the entire metroprarie to evaporate.

The seaport of Dallas will suffer a mega economic collapse and drag the tourism and fashion industry down with it. The ships sailing up there will have to turn around somewhere around Corsicana. People will then be forced to move to the Houston area where they will be sheltered in Reliant Stadium. Once again it will be Houston to the rescue.

There, now we are speaking the same language. Why waste time looking up facts and digging up sources this is much more fun.

[nucklehead]

My friend, your lack of knowledge and obvious bias will get you chewed up on this forum. What I mean is that there are to many people here that know what their talking about, which you obviously don't. In fact I'm not sure where you going at all with the above post.I would hush if i were you.

Once again, I'm not the one living in denial in here because I'm the one who is constantly trying to get away from the silly bickering by zeroing in instead on the city of Houston's primary problem in regards to its future development. That would be its elevated roadways. If you want to spend way too much money and effort in the future creating developments in Houston, then go ahead and keep those silly elevated roadways. So? In your opinion, what is / are the pressing problem / problems exist in regards to future of development in the Dallas area? Do you know? Hint: Dallas has more of a social problem than a material one.

But all of uptown Dallas could be wiped out in a matter of minutes if a tornado were to rip through it. I saw it on T.V. Dallas will never recover just like NO and Galveston never recovered. The trinity river project failure will cause the river to back up like a giant overflowing toilet all over the ruins of uptown Dallas and then what will you have? The water will have no place to drain and everyone will have to move to Houston just like when Galveston and NO were completely destroyed. The united states government will not allow any more construction in Dallas because it is such a risky area to build on. And then what about global warming. What will happen when the super dry hot summers in Dallas cause the tempreture to average about 140 all year long. Scientist predict that in 40 years or less the entire DFW area will not even exist because people won't be able to breath there in the summer. There is a giant ozone hole opening up, somewhere over Irving that will cause the entire metroprarie to evaporate. The seaport of Dallas will suffer a mega economic collapse and drag the tourism and fashion industry down with it. The ships sailing up there will have to turn around somewhere around Corsicana. People will then be forced to move to the Houston area where they will be sheltered in Reliant Stadium. Once again it will be Houston to the rescue.There, now we are speaking the same language. Why waste time looking up facts and digging up sources this is much more fun.

(chuckling)

[Mister X]

H. Ross Perot gave Dallas a severe black eye and ruined it's reputation forever when he lost his bid for the presidency back in 1995. Now when people think of Dallas they think about losers and people who shop at walmart. The Dallas office market is over built. I read on the internet that Dallas is going to suffer through a major economic depression from which it will never recover because there are too many unneeded buildings going up. Especially in uptown. There is doubt that the Mandarin will ever get built there. I also read that the Arlington superbowl will be a failure because it is so far out of town and people visiting there will have to drive too far in the freezing rain. This will ruin Dallas' image on a national level and there will never be another large national event in the DFW metro again. I read that on the internet too. Dallas is jealous of Houston.

[RedScare]

The Enron fiasco did not help the office market in the city of Houston. If anything, it gave the city a severe black eye for decades to come in regards to investor trust.

Bummer. So, Chevron leasing the entire Enron building (yes, all 1.4 million square feet of it) didn't help? If we have such a black eye, why did our vacancy rate drop to 11.5% a few months ago?

http://www.rednews.com/rednews.asp?categor...&page_ID=64

In case you have a hard time with math, that is ONE HALF of downtown Dallas' rate. If we have such a black eye, I wonder why at least three new skyscrapers are about to break ground in downtown Houston?

I got a great idea. You find even ONE article that agrees with your incredibly backassed reasoning, and I'll shut up on every thread you post. Just one. Bet you can't do it.

[Mister X]

Dallas has severe material and social problems. The rail system won't take people to anything entertaining. Just to work and back how boring. It already is known thru out the nation as one of the most boring cities in america. Why do you think that on the new monopoly board game, the only tourist destination they could think of to put on the board to represent Dallas is Texas Stadium. Texas Stadium won't even exist in another few years. Also, look where it is located on the board. It is the second most cheapest property. This says a lot about the national perception of Dallas. All the elevated freeways in Dallas will also stop it from growing in the future. And in a few years after the government is tired of pumping money down the drain on the Dallas rail system to keep it running, there will never be any trains moving on it. All the rail lines will eventually be torn up.

[nucklehead]

Bummer. So, Chevron leasing the entire Enron building (yes, all 1.4 million square feet of it) didn't help? If we have such a black eye, why did our vacancy rate drop to 11.5% a few months ago?

http://www.rednews.com/rednews.asp?categor...&page_ID=64

In case you have a hard time with math, that is ONE HALF of downtown Dallas' rate. If we have such a black eye, I wonder why at least three new skyscrapers are about to break ground in downtown Houston?

I got a great idea. You find even ONE article that agrees with your incredibly backassed reasoning, and I'll shut up on every thread you post. Just one. Bet you can't do it.

So? Do you agree that small office buildings and warehouses are higher quality office space than skyscrapers? Do you believe that 20 five story buildings filled with small businesses will outperform 1 hundred story building filled with a major corporation? The DFW area will always do better than Houston in the long run because it has over twice the amount of warehouse space and it builds far more of the shorter office buildings that will favor the creation of small businesses.

If you disagree with me it isn't because I am wrong. It simply means that you have a different political opinion than I do of what is considered a healthy economy.

[Mister X]

Your wasting your time Red Scare, this (see above) is the only thing that he (we all know who) can understand.

Just ONE arcticle? That's would involve reading, so don't count on it.

[RedScare]

Your wasting your time Red Scare, this (see above) is the only thing that he (we all know who) can understand.

Just ONE arcticle? That's would involve reading, so don't count on it.

Actually, it is not because he cannot understand. He is trolling. He types stupid and unsupported junk just to watch everyone go nuts calling him an idiot. People do not find a new forum and immediately jump to 20 posts per day without an angle.

I am not contributing to this nonsense anymore. The sooner the rest of you quit as well, the sooner he goes back to the Dallas metropolis board.

[nucklehead]

Your wasting your time Red Scare, this (see above) is the only thing that he (we all know who) can understand.

Just ONE arcticle? That's would involve reading, so don't count on it.

In regards to the article, it has been long known that the large oil related industry in Houston needs large chunks of space when it expands. This requires the construction of skyscrapers. This in the long run is not as healthy as the office market in Dallas because it does not create as many warehouses and the types of small office buildings that best create space for small businesses.

The social problem that the city of Dallas suffers from right now in favor of huge corporations has created an atmosphere of anti-small business. As a result, the city is subsidizing the development of office buildings for large corporations in downtown at a cost that penalizes tax payers (who ultimately create small businesses.) This same kind of disillusionment in regards to what actually is a healthy economy is also prevalent in Houston. However, since Dallas has a better infrastruction in place to create small businesses, it continues to do so, even against its will, better than the city of Houston does.

How can you deny this?

[Mister X]

Actually, it is not because he cannot understand. He is trolling. He types stupid and unsupported junk just to watch everyone go nuts calling him an idiot. People do not find a new forum and immediately jump to 20 posts per day without an angle.

I am not contributing to this nonsense anymore. The sooner the rest of you quit as well, the sooner he goes back to the Dallas metropolis board.

I know you're right, and I also know better than responding to this garbage. But what can I say, my inner child always gets sucked into these Houston bashing threads and then I start to feel that it is my duty to defend and attack those who dare trash my town for no good reason.

At first I thought it was just another insecure Dallas boy with lots of spare time. Then I was starting to believe that it was a joke. Later, I started thinking that maybe this was some new kind of OTTO MATION type deal, only instead of making relevant announcements, it just spewed out irresponsible nonsense like a machine. But now I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of internet terrorist attack designed to draw people in and force them to make angry retaliating post with the intent of getting some of the more loyal citizens of Houston and HAIF regulars banned. I know I have a few internet enemies living in Dallas, so it is possible - insane - but possible.

No, it couldn't be. Could it?

[Houston19514]

In regards to the article, it has been long known that the large oil related industry in Houston needs large chunks of space when it expands. This requires the construction of skyscrapers. This in the long run is not as healthy as the office market in Dallas because it does not create as many warehouses and the types of small office buildings that best create space for small businesses.

The social problem that the city of Dallas suffers from right now in favor of huge corporations has created an atmosphere of anti-small business. As a result, the city is subsidizing the development of office buildings for large corporations in downtown at a cost that penalizes tax payers (who ultimately create small businesses.) This same kind of disillusionment in regards to what actually is a healthy economy is also prevalent in Houston. However, since Dallas has a better infrastruction in place to create small businesses, it continues to do so, even against its will, better than the city of Houston does.

How can you deny this?

And on that note,

Happy Bipolar Awareness Week!!

[RedScare]

All you have to notice is that even the most ardent Dallas posters have kept quiet. Even they know that this is a troll. I applaud our good Dallas posters for not egging in on. Now, it is time for Houstonians to do the same.

RedScare out.

[nucklehead]

Actually, it is not because he cannot understand. He is trolling. He types stupid and unsupported junk just to watch everyone go nuts calling him an idiot. People do not find a new forum and immediately jump to 20 posts per day without an angle.

I am not contributing to this nonsense anymore. The sooner the rest of you quit as well, the sooner he goes back to the Dallas metropolis board.

I do read. I read your magazine article, in fact. I think the problem here is style verus content. My argument in here has been to focus on what I believe is the major problem with Houston developing Midtown -- elevated roadways. I feel this is a very substantial argument supported by content.

Meanwhile, ad hominem tactics are always used to attack a person's character in order to lead an audience away from content to focus on style. I am not the one in here using this method. If you want to stylishly run off, be my guest.

Also, the plain observable is evidence that you can experience directly with your 5 senses. It is clearly observable that the area of Uptown is doing quite well despite downtown having a lot of empty office space. There is no theory to it.

In regards to posting in here, I find it interesting reading about the Houston perspective on Dallas. Most notably the incredible hostility and envy that Houstonians exhibit in regards to Dallas' fabulous Light Rail System and the incredibly density of its Uptown area.