Uptown Dallas Density

[nucklehead]

And on that note,

Happy Bipolar Awareness Week!!

It really is difficult to have an intelligent discussion in here without petty bickering.

[nucklehead]

I know you're right, and I also know better to respond to this garbage. But what can I say, my inner child always gets sucked into these Houston bashing threads and then I start to feel that it is my duty to defend and attack those who dare trash my town for no good reason.

At first I thought it was just another insecure Dallas boy with lots of spare time. Then I was starting to believe that it was a joke. Later, I started thinking that maybe this was some new kind of OTTO MATION type deal, only instead of making relevant announcements, it just spewed out irresponsible nonsense like a machine. But now I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of internet terrorist attack designed to draw people in and force them to make angry retaliating post with the intent of getting some of the more loyal citizens of Houston and HAIF regulars banned. I know I have a few internet enemies living in Dallas, so it is possible - insane - but possible.

No, it couldn't be. Could it?

(chuckling)

Observable evidence -- Evidence directly observable through the use of a person's 5 senses.

Theoretical evidence: This evidence supports an invisible claim through the use of indirect evidence beyond a person's 5 senses.

Over and out.

[nucklehead]

All you have to notice is that even the most ardent Dallas posters have kept quiet. Even they know that this is a troll. I applaud our good Dallas posters for not egging in on. Now, it is time for Houstonians to do the same.

RedScare out.

Wrong. I am not much liked in that forum either because of my political belief that the area's most premium office space exists in its ample supply of short office buildings and warehouses. They also don't like my claim that Oak Cliff is far superior to Uptown in regards to quality of life. If you don't believe me, go read my posts. I think I go by the name of "Numbskull" if I'm not mistaken.

[C2H]

I think I go by the name of "Numbskull" if I'm not mistaken.

dang. to think some were arguing a point with someone who doesn't even know his own name?

[musicman]

Mister X continue.....you've sure have brightened my day. LOL

[Mister X]

I would love to, Musicman, but I find writing that dribble is much harder to do than I thought it would be. Thinking up one lame-brained idea right after the next and trying to put it all into a language that only a dim-witt could understand isn't as easy as it looks. Writing incomplete thoughts and shifting from one unrelated idea to the next comes more natural to some people than to others.

But I'm glad you got the joke.

[Houston19514]

I would love to, Musicman, but I find writing that dribble is much harder to do than I thought it would be. Thinking up one lame-brained idea right after the next and trying to put it all into a language that only a dim-witt could understand isn't as easy as it looks. Writing incomplete thoughts and shifting from one unrelated idea to the next comes more natural to some people than to others.

But I'm glad you got the joke.

I enjoyed your posts too, MisterX. Thank you. Excellent work! Brought be a lot of laughs.

[editor]

All members should read the grey box at the top of this page labeled "Reminder."

If you can't keep it civil and on-topic, this thread will be closed.

[Gary]

All members should read the grey box at the top of this page labeled "Reminder."

If you can't keep it civil and on-topic, this thread will be closed.

Edit: I was going to say something about how rediculous the current discussion is, but I decided not to.

[dfwcre8tive]

Uptown development booming

09:54 AM CDT on Friday, November 2, 2007

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

stevebrown@dallasnews.com

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...wn.346c5ae.html

If you want to know what a building boom looks like, take a gander at Uptown.

The development district just north of downtown Dallas is a forest of building cranes and construction barricades.

And that's just what's going up today

[C2H]

Uptown development booming

09:54 AM CDT on Friday, November 2, 2007

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

stevebrown@dallasnews.com

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...wn.346c5ae.html

If you want to know what a building boom looks like, take a gander at Uptown.

I'm glad for Dallas but all that overbuilding is just sucking life from downtown as we speak.

[Spades]

I'm glad for Dallas but all that overbuilding is just sucking life from downtown as we speak.

True. But once that new park is built over Woodall Rogers freeway, it will connect Uptown to Downtown. But Downtown is being revitilized itself. They are just getting started.

[Captain Impossible]

They are just getting started.

You make this sound recent. They've been at it for about ten years.

[dfwcre8tive]

From here.

[Dallascaper]

You make this sound recent. They've been at it for about ten years.

[troyboy]

[dfwcre8tive]

From here (click for larger).

[dfwcre8tive]

According to Harwood's updated website (http://www.harwooddallas.com/masterplan.php?b2=_sel) here is the latest round of upcoming projects in Uptown (with land left over for future projects). Only Saint Ann Court has commenced construction, so far.

Saint Ann Court

* Completion Fall 2009

Offices: 314,279 sq ft

Height: 333 ft 6 in

Floors: 26 (4 exclusive penthouse office floors (23, 24, 25 & 26), 10 typical office floors, 11 parking levels, 1 lobby level,

no 13th floor)

Typical floor: 25,200 sq ft

Floor to ceiling height: 9 ft 6 in for typical office floors and up to 20 ft for penthouse levels

LEED certified

Parking ratio: 2.9: 1,000 all enclosed in garage

VIP and valet parking, ample visitor spaces and motor court

Tenants

* Amegy Bank

* Erasmus Advisors

* McGuire, Craddock & Strother

* Aldus Equity

* Harwood International

Amenities

* On-A-Good-DayT garden lounge and bar

* Saint Ann Caf

[dfwcre8tive]

click for larger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ninjatune/2307028646/

[TxDave]

Given its density and proximity, I believe that this area will eventually be considered simply an extension of downtown Dallas. Uptown should be the "mid-density" McKinney Ave/State-Thomas/West village area north of Downtown

[dfwcre8tive]

http://www.globest.com/news/1129_1129/dallas/169639-1.html

Granite, Gables Dig Into $200M Uptown Towers

By Connie Gore

ALLAS-Officially ringing the starting bell, Granite Properties and Gables Residential Trust are under way with a $200-million, two-tower project in Uptown. The double play will come on line in 2010.

Economic concerns sweeping the nation have been taken into consideration, but the long-term outlook is driving the development partners to forge ahead with confidence on the 2.14-acre project at 1717 McKinney St. and 1700 Cedar Springs Rd., according to Greg Fuller, COO of Dallas-based Granite Properties. "You really have to have a five-year horizon window. There definitely are going to be areas that see economic downturn, but real estate fundamentals in that area [uptown] are not going to go away," he tells GlobeSt.com. "You've got to look long term, past this rocky bubble. Great real estate in great locations will always survive in good times or bad."

The class AA office tower is a 19-story design, with 361,524 sf of rentable LEED Silver-certified space. It will sit on top of six levels of parking and retail, with a one-acre "amenity" deck that connects to its neighbor, a 26-story residential tower with 292 units, also being designed for LEED certification. It will have 20 residential floors and six floors of parking and retail. The towers will have 15,000 sf of street-level retail and restaurant space plus room for a bank with drive-through lanes.

Granite will own its tower and the Atlanta-based Gables will own its tower too, with the land tract secured by condominium interests, according to Fuller. "We decided to develop as one for economies of scale," he explains. "We are getting a 7% to 10% reduction in pricing than if we had built them separately." Leading Gables' project is its senior vice president Doug Chesnut.

...

The office tower's skin will be outfitted with thousands of LEDs and designed for color changes. "At 22 stories tall and 38 feet wide, the effect when the building is lighted each night will be hard to miss," says Fuller, whose company was named developer of the year by NAIOP's North Texas chapter.

Good Fulton & Farrell Inc. of Dallas designed the entire project. TBG Partners of Austin is the landscape architect. Austin Commercial Inc.'s local team is the general contractor.

[roadrunner]

I was in Dallas this past week for work, and being a single 23 year old, I must say that I was extremely impressed with Uptown. It really is dense, urban, and walkable. Lots of neat cafes, bars, etc. Seems like a cool place to live.

The closest thing I see to this in Houston is Midtown, but without the bums, rundown shopping centers, and retail banks. Midtown is making some strides, though, and hopefully there will be more ambitious projects that can relate to Uptown Dallas.

As a Houstonian who usually rags on Dallas, I went in with an objective view. And in the end I realized that I would love to go back and spend more time there.

[tierwestah]

Dallas is very impressive, especially those new Towers going up in Uptown. I hope they can finish cleaning up Midtown Houston so it starts to see a boom of newer skyscrapers. The old ugly ones such as Central Square building and the Vacant Old Days Inn are not helping for the appearance of Houston. I wish they would knock those buildings down if they're not going to try to rejuvenate it.

[roadrunner]

Dallas is very impressive, especially those new Towers going up in Uptown. I hope they can finish cleaning up Midtown Houston so it starts to see a boom of newer skyscrapers. The old ugly ones such as Central Square building and the Vacant Old Days Inn are not helping for the appearance of Houston. I wish they would knock those buildings down if they're not going to try to rejuvenate it.

I agree. Houston has just as much construction going on, including high rise living, but it's just scattered all over the city. Dallas has it all happening in Uptown. I guess there are pros and cons for that, but I am envious of a truly urban area in the city.

Midtown just has so many obstacles. The Greyhound Bus Station, the Central Square abandoned highrise (that seems to attract homeless in drug dealers), the empty lots around the Red Line....the list goes on.

[NewMND]

I'd like to see them trench the freeway and have to demolish the Greyhound bus station to do it!

roadrunner is right, Houston's construction is spread out. When I think about it, there is a lot more going on than I think about, but since it's not concentrated, it doesn't seem as much. There will be something built in Musuem District, then something in Westchase, then Uptown, then Downtown, then TMC, then someplace random.

Oh, and back on topic, I drove through Dallas a few weeks ago, and their Uptown is much more impressive than it seems from just looking at the pics here.

[wernicke]

I had the same experience in Dallas about a month ago... my fiance and I stayed with one of her friends in a Post residential/retail apartment in Uptown and walked to everything. I left very impressed with what Dallas has going on... albeit a little curious as to how the hell all those million-dollar condos are going to be moved. I think it will be decades before sprawling H-town has anything similar.

Of course, beyond DT, Uptown and Highland Park there is really nothing else in Dallas. Houston really is an entirely different animal, so comparisons are difficult.

[Trae]

Did you say Highland Park? Isn't that place just like River Oaks?

[TheNiche]

Of course, beyond DT, Uptown and Highland Park there is really nothing else in Dallas. Houston really is an entirely different animal, so comparisons are difficult.

Look at the last page of Grubb & Ellis' 4Q 2007 office report. Less than half of new office construction in the DFW area is occuring in these areas that you mention.

[wernicke]

Look at the last page of Grubb & Ellis' 4Q 2007 office report. Less than half of new office construction in the DFW area is occuring in these areas that you mention.

Well, I was talking about DALLAS... not Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex. I was comparing the city of HOUSTON, to the city of DALLAS. The report you site (looking at the entire DFW metroplex market) actually reinforces the point I was trying to make about the city of DALLAS (not DFW) if you read it:

Not surprisingly, the

suburbs fueled the absorption growth with West Plano/Frisco and LBJ

Freeway at the top. Conversely, the Dallas Central Business District (CBD)

experienced a challenging final quarter of the year. As Hunt Oil Company

filled its new global headquarters facility, a 325,000 square foot block of

space in the nearby Fountain Place went dark.

[VicMan]

Did you say Highland Park? Isn't that place just like River Oaks?

On this thread someone told me that Preston Hollow is a better comparison to River Oaks; Preston Hollow is a neighborhood within Dallas while the Park Cities are independent municipalities. Also most of Highland Park, all of University Park, and a smidgen of Dallas are in Highland Park ISD.

On the other hand most Preston Hollow people send their kids to private schools. River Oaks has many in private school, but this is the same neighborhood that asked for (and got!) its neighborhood public elementary school back in the mid-1990s: http://www.houstonpress.com/Issues/1995-04.../news_full.html