US Plants Propaganda As "news"

[RedScare]

The US is planting propaganda stories in Iraqi newspapers to try to make us look better. This is similar to what has been done here in the US on several occasions in the last several years.

"The military's effort to disseminate propaganda in the Iraqi media is taking place even as U.S. officials are vowing to promote democratic principles, political transparency and freedom of speech to a country emerging from decades of dictatorship and corruption. It comes as the State Department is training Iraqi reporters in basic journalism skills and Western media ethics."

It is good to see our government practicing the same democratic principles of some of the world's great democracies, like the old USSR, Nazi Germany, Saudi Arabia, Cuba and China. It is important to note that the Shiite dominated Iraqi government is watching this exercise as well, and will no doubt learn from their American mentors.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3492390.html

[Parrothead]

What's the problem? The reverse is done every day here on ABC, NBC, and CBS. I think it's called "leveling the playing field".

Seriously, though, this is not news. Yes, the countries you named wrote all sorts of propaganda, but only have that negative connotation you mention because what they were purporting to be true was really a sack of lies. (Oh, so wait a sec...is THAT what you're saying? That America is LYING to Iraq? Aaaah. Well, I'm glad one of us has the right information.)

[sevfiv]

what's next? fliers?

(those are a couple of my WWI favorites)

[TJones]

WOW ! Talk about your propaganda ! i.e. Red's quoted article, gimme a break, I find it to be the same as the liberal biased media in this country, NOT printing the same stories written by those soldiers here in our own AMERICAN newspapers.

SO, are these articles appearing in ALL the Iraqui free press, or just one newspaper?

[nmainguy]

What's the problem? The reverse is done every day here on ABC, NBC, and CBS. I think it's called "leveling the playing field".

Seriously, though, this is not news. Yes, the countries you named wrote all sorts of propaganda, but only have that negative connotation you mention because what they were purporting to be true was really a sack of lies. (Oh, so wait a sec...is THAT what you're saying? That America is LYING to Iraq? Aaaah. Well, I'm glad one of us has the right information.)

Well...that response was predictable-except you left out Fox [predictable as well].

Does anyone have a SERIOUS response to Red's post?

I'd be interested in reading them.

[Parrothead]

Dang, you have me pegged, nmainguy. I was *this close* to putting in a comment about Fox. Shoot.

In order to have a serious response you have to have a serious question. I see neither serious nor question. I see opinion, and so I too gave mine.

[west20th]

Dang, you have me pegged, nmainguy. I was *this close* to putting in a comment about Fox. Shoot.

In order to have a serious response you have to have a serious question. I see neither serious nor question. I see opinion, and so I too gave mine.

Fox was probably left out because it is not a serious news channel. It is the Enquirer of network news. Nothing but the latest on the "Aruba girl" and biased talk shows. Real news? Naw, doesn't get enough ratings. Some people point to Greta (a supposed liberal) to prove Foxes balance. Hmmmmmm.....maybe they will let her cover some real news someday.

[Jeebus]

Great another thread about politics.

yawn..

[HeightsGuy]

Sorry Red, you're not going to get any sympathy from this old liberal dog. PsyOps is (and always has been) an integral part of warfare. It's called winning the hearts and minds. Clinton was a big proponent of this stuff in Bosnia, and the military in Iraq isn't doing anything differently now in regards to propoganda than any other conflict under both Democrat and Republican administrations. This falls along the lines of giving toys to kids in the crossfire when a camaraman just "happens" to be around. It's hard to argue against stuff like this.

[edit] I'll go all out to protest the actions of the administration, but the guys over there need every legal tool at their disposal.

[MidtownCoog]

Isreal dropped leaflets all over Lebanon last week with what some would call "propoganda".

What's the problem?

[nmainguy]

Yeah, well...Fox; go figure.

As for serious, I thought we were a country of freedoms: of speech and of press. I suppose the propaganda planted at home and abroad is intended to mask the fact that this war has been prosecuted by an inept and incompetent Bush administration. It's really not working. The war is a losing proposition for us-most people seem to get that. Now is the time for serious people to come up with a way to get our asses out of the crack we're stuck in. The Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld attempt to continue putting lipstick on this pig is simply not working.

I'm starting to lean more to Congressman Murtha's postion: draw back across the borders [Kuwait, Turkey] and stand ready to intervine only when absolutly neccessary. The Iraqis need to work out there own destiny. As long as we enable them, they have no incentive to try. I'm not saying stand down, just stand-by.

Oh-and Jeebus-you yawn and still you posted...must not be too big of a yawn.

[Ashikaga]

The US is planting propaganda stories in Iraqi newspapers to try to make us look better. This is similar to what has been done here in the US on several occasions in the last several years.

"The military's effort to disseminate propaganda in the Iraqi media is taking place even as U.S. officials are vowing to promote democratic principles, political transparency and freedom of speech to a country emerging from decades of dictatorship and corruption. It comes as the State Department is training Iraqi reporters in basic journalism skills and Western media ethics."

It is good to see our government practicing the same democratic principles of some of the world's great democracies, like the old USSR, Nazi Germany, Saudi Arabia, Cuba and China. It is important to note that the Shiite dominated Iraqi government is watching this exercise as well, and will no doubt learn from their American mentors.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3492390.html

Montesquieu, one of the classic philosophers, believed that countries located in cold climates are better for democracy, and that countries located in hot climates are better if they are run by despots. I invite comments.

[west20th]

Isreal dropped leaflets all over Lebanon last week with what some would call "propoganda".

What's the problem?

Don't see any. Dropping leaflets is better than dropping bombs. Hope they get results. And selling the war to Iraq doesn't seem to be a problem. To bad they can't do a better job of selling it to the American people. They no longer have the credibility to accomplish that.

[west20th]

Great another thread about politics.

yawn..

This thread is under WAY OFF TOPIC->POLITICS. What were you expecting?

[Jeebus]

It was a snoozer until Heightsguy posted along with you adding the comment about Murtha. The rest has been pointless name calling.

Besides, if I didn't post, how would you have known I was yawning?

[RedScare]

Sorry Red, you're not going to get any sympathy from this old liberal dog. PsyOps is (and always has been) an integral part of warfare. It's called winning the hearts and minds. Clinton was a big proponent of this stuff in Bosnia, and the military in Iraq isn't doing anything differently now in regards to propoganda than any other conflict under both Democrat and Republican administrations. This falls along the lines of giving toys to kids in the crossfire when a camaraman just "happens" to be around. It's hard to argue against stuff like this.

[edit] I'll go all out to protest the actions of the administration, but the guys over there need every legal tool at their disposal.

Heights Guy, you are exactly right. There is nothing illegal or unethical about passing out propaganda to foreigners. What is illegal is the propaganda passed to Americans by their own government. I left that out to get a little better debate....and I was in a rush this morning.

My real interest in the article is that we are selling these one-sided articles in a country where this fledgling government is watching. All of these new Iraqi elected officials are going to do the same with their new "democracy". But the act of selling propaganda to forign newspapers read by foreigners is not objectionable in and of itself.

[sevfiv]

"It comes as the State Department is training Iraqi reporters in basic journalism skills and Western media ethics."

great

[TJones]

Do you think the New York Times or the Washington Post, would ever go to print with a few letters written by our servicemen. I know the Houston Comical never would, even though they'd normally take money to print anything.

[Parrothead]

I suppose the propaganda planted at home and abroad is intended to mask the fact that this war has been prosecuted by an inept and incompetent Bush administration. It's really not working. The war is a losing proposition for us-most people seem to get that. Now is the time for serious people to come up with a way to get our asses out of the crack we're stuck in. The Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld attempt to continue putting lipstick on this pig is simply not working.

I'm starting to lean more to Congressman Murtha's postion: draw back across the borders [Kuwait, Turkey] and stand ready to intervine only when absolutly neccessary. The Iraqis need to work out there own destiny. As long as we enable them, they have no incentive to try. I'm not saying stand down, just stand-by.

Well, that's pretty typical leftist thinking. Here's a scenario for you: A town need a ditch dug and it happens to be near the water treatment plant. The group agrees unanimously that the ditch is necessary for the well-being of the town. You, being part of this town, get down in the mud and start digging with everyone else, when suddenly, you hit a sewer line. You don't like the smell of things anymore, so instead of putting on a breathing mask, repairing the line and finishing the job, you run the *uck outta there and stand at the top of the hole, screaming to the masses (still digging by the way, and not really appreciating your shouting while they are trying to help YOU) that you were never told there was a sewer main. Hello, you're digging a DITCH near a water treatment plant...what makes you think you won't be wading around in ____ once in a while? It's called "war", not "negotiations".

Wait on the sidelines? For what? The Shiites to take over and reverse everything we have done in order for Iraq to be free? We certainly wouldn't have to wait very long for that!

[RedScare]

Wait on the sidelines? For what? The Shiites to take over and reverse everything we have done in order for Iraq to be free? We certainly wouldn't have to wait very long for that!

Well, you certainly won't have to wait very long for that. The Shiites are the majority party in the new "democratic" government. Yes, the same Shiites who have been infiltrated by Iranian moles. And our military is protecting them.

I'm curious. Just who do you think will be in charge when we are done? And, who do think they will be friendly to? I won't respond to your reply. I am just interested in what you think the final result will be, once the insurgency is quelled.

[dbigtex56]

gimme a break, I find it to be the same as the liberal biased media in this country, NOT printing the same stories written by those soldiers here in our own AMERICAN newspapers.

You mean, stories like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal? If I recall correctly, this was leaked by soldiers, and the military doesn't want something like that to happen again.

Don't blame the 'liberal media' (as if there was such a thing) for unpleasant truths that challange the propagana being crammed down our throat by this Administration. Bear in mind that the military hasn't exactly welcomed journalists with open arms. And soldiers are not encouraged to have dissenting opinions - it's the nature of military life.

I suspect that soldiers would be heavily influenced by the fact that there could be repercussions if the stories they wrote didn't meet with the approval of their superior officers - hardly a source of unbiased journalism.

[bachanon]

Bear in mind that the military hasn't exactly welcomed journalists with open arms.

the us military invited journalists and photographers to be embedded with troops when the war began. also, a buddy of mine had a journalist/photographer in his troop as late as last summer. i'm not sure of the status on embedded media at this time; however, they did welcome journalists up to a point.

[RedScare]

The military wasn't so keen on imbedded journalists. The Bush administration wanted them in there to be able to quickly report on the glorious success of the war effort. When things bogged down, they regretted that decision, as the bogg was reported as well.

[nmainguy]

Well, that's pretty typical leftist thinking. Here's a scenario for you: A town need a ditch dug and it happens to be near the water treatment plant. The group agrees unanimously that the ditch is necessary for the well-being of the town. You, being part of this town, get down in the mud and start digging with everyone else, when suddenly, you hit a sewer line. You don't like the smell of things anymore, so instead of putting on a breathing mask, repairing the line and finishing the job, you run the *uck outta there and stand at the top of the hole, screaming to the masses (still digging by the way, and not really appreciating your shouting while they are trying to help YOU) that you were never told there was a sewer main. Hello, you're digging a DITCH near a water treatment plant...what makes you think you won't be wading around in ____ once in a while? It's called "war", not "negotiations".

Wait on the sidelines? For what? The Shiites to take over and reverse everything we have done in order for Iraq to be free? We certainly wouldn't have to wait very long for that!

Well, as I said before, if anyone has any serious proposals to discuss instead of meaningless hypothetical scenarios, I'm all ears. Speaking of ears, mine are deaf to "Well, that's pretty typical leftist thinking." if you think you're being clever or cute. You are being neither. That old right-wing scare tactic is tiered and done with. I am a Liberal. I'm not sure what you are. A Conservative? I don't think so. My Conservative friends are a little more thoughtful. You just sound like another Bush apologist who screams the Shiites will take over if we pull back! Guess what? They probably will. They are the majority. I think it's time for the Cheney/Bush team to step aside and let the grown-ups handle it from here on out.

[bachanon]

the article doesn't mention if it is normal to "pay" for articles to be published in iraqi papers, it implies something devious. corporations always do that here. also, the article's title description states that items are omitted to protect troops; however, the subject of the article attempts to make it look backhanded or shady. the media assumes that the reader will interpret "propaganda" as something an evil dictator publishes to purposefully misinform the public. the article in the chronicle is itself propaganda from our own third party, the press.

[TJones]

... no comment after all.

[Parrothead]

Well, as I said before, if anyone has any serious proposals to discuss instead of meaningless hypothetical scenarios, I'm all ears. Speaking of ears, mine are deaf to "Well, that's pretty typical leftist thinking." if you think you're being clever or cute. You are being neither. That old right-wing scare tactic is tiered and done with. I am a Liberal. I'm not sure what you are. A Conservative? I don't think so. My Conservative friends are a little more thoughtful. You just sound like another Bush apologist who screams the Shiites will take over if we pull back! Guess what? They probably will. They are the majority. I think it's time for the Cheney/Bush team to step aside and let the grown-ups handle it from here on out.

Well, you have one thing right--I'm not a Conservative. I'm a middle-of-the-road Republican, the daughter of a WWII veteran (USMC) and a WASPish housewife. It isn't my job to be "thoughtful" to you or to anyone else when it comes to my beliefs as to where this country is heading. Do I blindly follow Bush? Nope--in fact, there's a few things I'm not too happy about--the borders, for one--but I do believe in FINISHING a job that we started and doing it right---not running off in the middle of it all just because it isn't working the way a certain group (uh, can I say leftist without you going deaf?) thought it was all going to. I am in no way an "apologist". Oh gosh no. I am not sorry we got into the war, but I am damn sorry that you are.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be clever or cute--I am already both. Just ask my husband. As Yoda said, "...there is no try."

[CE_ugh]

LIBERALS GWWRAHAHAHGGG

[west20th]

Wait on the sidelines? For what? The Shiites to take over and reverse everything we have done in order for Iraq to be free? We certainly wouldn't have to wait very long for that!

Source HNN.us:

Iraq's population is about 24 million, probably. Some 65 percent or 15.6 million are Shiite Arabs. Another 15 percent or 3.6 million are Sunni Arabs. That's 80 percent of the country. The remaining 20 percent is probably split this way: 2 percent Chaldeans and Assyrians, many of whom speak Aramaic as their mother tongue; 2 percent Turkmen who speak a Turkic language; and 16 percent Kurds.

With 65% of the country being Shiite who do you think will take over? How long will we have to stay until the Shiites won't take over? How will we prevent that? Stay forever? If the country isn't taken over by Shiites than who will take over? Basically what I'm getting at since our reasons for invading are ever evolving what constitutes success? At what point do we declare victory and come home? And please don't throw slogans at me. "Stay the course" is not a plan.

[dbigtex56]

LIBERALS GWWRAHAHAHGGG

big...words...bad

me...angry...good