Final high speed rail public meeting January 5

[Slick Vik]

As you should know, rail is only effective at areas with high density, which is why rail works in places like Japan, South Korea, Western Europe, India, and Northeast United States. Therefore, taking an example like Japan, which is far higher density on average than Texas, isn't really applicable in this case.

This is intercity not intracity

[IronTiger]

This is intercity not intracity

Those were intercity too.

[Slick Vik]

Those were intercity too.

I see your point of you're talking about moving around once you arrive to the city you arrive to. However it's irrelevant for city to city rail.

[Slick Vik]

There is a huge amount of people that go between houston and Dallas weekly. Plus it will increase with the number of people moving to both cities. Plus there are people who would rather take a train than drive or fly. This project has a lot going for it.

[Dakota79]

There is a huge amount of people that go between houston and Dallas weekly. Plus it will increase with the number of people moving to both cities. Plus there are people who would rather take a train than drive or fly. This project has a lot going for it.

Perfectly stated. And I agree 100%. It'll be used way more than people imagine.

[Sparrow]

The scoping process was done a long time ago. Someone found out way later and demanded meetings with eckels.

 

Just for full disclosure the scoping process was closed yesterday (January 9th, 2015), not a long time ago. More meetings were added for early December after the October ones were completed. According to their website we will receive the scoping report by late January/early February.

 

http://dallashoustonhsr.com

 

Here's hoping they decided to relook at the Hardy corridor. Seems there would be so many fewer delays taking that way into town--all the way to Downtown. And it's a straight shot too. Straight lines make for higher speed. Downtown station and an ExxonMobil Campus area station. Go up Hardy, turn left at Old Town Spring toward Pinehurst to join up with the BNSF route. Crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.

[BigFootsSocks]

So what ur saying is that route is a perfectly, uniformly straight line from downtown Houston to downtown Dallas? How strangely convienient that there's absolutely nothing in the way to save those extra 15 minutes!

[Ross]

If the chosen route is down the Hardy corridor, then a Downtown station makes sense. If the route comes in along 290/Nempstead, then Northwest Mall is the obvious terminus. The Hardy route also eliiantes the need for piggybacking tracks through neighborhoods.

 

As for trenching, there's no way BNSF or UP is going to allow that to happen to their tracks.

[IronTiger]

If the chosen route is down the Hardy corridor, then a Downtown station makes sense. If the route comes in along 290/Nempstead, then Northwest Mall is the obvious terminus. The Hardy route also eliiantes the need for piggybacking tracks through neighborhoods.

As for trenching, there's no way BNSF or UP is going to allow that to happen to their tracks.

Even if there weren't spurs?

[Slick Vik]

Just for full disclosure the scoping process was closed yesterday (January 9th, 2015), not a long time ago. More meetings were added for early December after the October ones were completed. According to their website we will receive the scoping report by late January/early February.

http://dallashoustonhsr.com

Here's hoping they decided to relook at the Hardy corridor. Seems there would be so many fewer delays taking that way into town--all the way to Downtown. And it's a straight shot too. Straight lines make for higher speed. Downtown station and an ExxonMobil Campus area station. Go up Hardy, turn left at Old Town Spring toward Pinehurst to join up with the BNSF route. Crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.

The scoping process was closed for comments months ago. The FRA's meeting was October 29 and was sparsely attended. These last two have no impact.

As far as the hardy eckels said the railroad company that owns those tracks said no.

If the chosen route is down the Hardy corridor, then a Downtown station makes sense. If the route comes in along 290/Nempstead, then Northwest Mall is the obvious terminus. The Hardy route also eliiantes the need for piggybacking tracks through neighborhoods.

As for trenching, there's no way BNSF or UP is going to allow that to happen to their tracks.

Makes sense to a few neighborhoods but not the actual riders.

[IronTiger]

Makes sense to a few neighborhoods but not the actual riders.

Any large scale transportation project has to take into account neighborhood impact. It's the reason why there's no southbound frontage road on Beltway 8 near Memorial Forest, and other compromises with neighborhoods on Interstate 10.

You, an armchair freeway critic, should be aware of this.

[Slick Vik]

Any large scale transportation project has to take into account neighborhood impact. It's the reason why there's no southbound frontage road on Beltway 8 near Memorial Forest, and other compromises with neighborhoods on Interstate 10.

You, an armchair freeway critic, should be aware of this.

The impact of the high speed rail is minimal, (zero property acquisition),and not even in the same stratosphere as the freight rail lines that already exist there.

[IronTiger]

The impact of the high speed rail is minimal, (zero property acquisition),and not even in the same stratosphere as the freight rail lines that already exist there.

HSR trains aren't silent, they'll add to the noise significantly, the faster they go.

I'm not saying the HSR shouldn't be built for this reason, but there's some serious downplaying of neighborhood impact here. The Hardy Toll Road extension, also another example, will impact neighborhoods as well, even though there's a freight train corridor there already. Did you not make some argument regarding that, too?

I'm not trying to drag us into another trains/highways debate, but hell yes this will impact neighborhoods more than the freight train already does.

[BigFootsSocks]

Impact neighborhoods? Sure. More than freight? I doubt it. There will be no signals to cross and thus no need for horns. The only significant noise it will make will be when its at or gearing towards full speed, which won't happen until the outskirts of Houston at least.

[Slick Vik]

HSR trains aren't silent, they'll add to the noise significantly, the faster they go.

I'm not saying the HSR shouldn't be built for this reason, but there's some serious downplaying of neighborhood impact here. The Hardy Toll Road extension, also another example, will impact neighborhoods as well, even though there's a freight train corridor there already. Did you not make some argument regarding that, too?

I'm not trying to drag us into another trains/highways debate, but hell yes this will impact neighborhoods more than the freight train already does.

Honest question have you ridden high speed rail anywhere in the world? If you have you would know it's very quiet as it goes by. Significantly quieter than the freight trains that already exist. The neighborhood impact would be minimal as ZERO homes are being bought on both of the proposed routes in the loop. Also from what I've read the hardy connector isn't having much of an impact either.

[IronTiger]

Honest question have you ridden high speed rail anywhere in the world? If you have you would know it's very quiet as it goes by.

Bzzt...wrong answer. If you were riding it, you can't hear anymore than just a relatively quiet white noise. Here's an experiment anyone can try: Drive (or ride) in a car on the freeway. Turn off the A/C or the radio, and you'll hear an audible but study hum that can (and will) lull children to sleep. Now, exit and get off at a business somewhere (or whatever). Makes a world of difference, doesn't it? You can see why TxDOT (and others) install tall, soundproofing walls between homes and the highway. Freight trains do make a noise, but when HSR trains pass, they make a high-pitched squeaking noise, though only when you pass by then, and if you're stationary, you'll be hearing that all the time. Here's a video of a European HSR going by, and it's clear that there will be neighborhood impact that will need soundproofing.

 

[Slick Vik]

Bzzt...wrong answer. If you were riding it, you can't hear anymore than just a relatively quiet white noise. Here's an experiment anyone can try: Drive (or ride) in a car on the freeway. Turn off the A/C or the radio, and you'll hear an audible but study hum that can (and will) lull children to sleep. Now, exit and get off at a business somewhere (or whatever). Makes a world of difference, doesn't it? You can see why TxDOT (and others) install tall, soundproofing walls between homes and the highway. Freight trains do make a noise, but when HSR trains pass, they make a high-pitched squeaking noise, though only when you pass by then, and if you're stationary, you'll be hearing that all the time. Here's a video of a European HSR going by, and it's clear that there will be neighborhood impact that will need soundproofing.

Ok boss. I've done that test all over Western Europe and Japan, and the sound of thousands of cars is MUCH worse than a high speed train whizzing by. And not sure either are as bad as a freight train that already exists. This is just a bunch of fearmongering from soccer moms and their fellow nimbys.

[mfastx]

The noise of a HSR line is nowhere near that of a freight train.  Perhaps it might be comparable to a small to medium sized highway, except the trains will only make a sound every 30 minutes or so, while highways have a constant hum of cars. 

[BigFootsSocks]

You also have to realize that at full speed you will only hear these trains for at most a few seconds. Cmon IT you're better at arguing than this.

[Ross]

The trains won't be going through the neighborhoods at full speed, but at less than 50mph. There will be noise, and for more than a few seconds. Yet another reason to terminate at Northwest Mall, far less impact on neighborhoods.

[IronTiger]

You also have to realize that at full speed you will only hear these trains for at most a few seconds. Cmon IT you're better at arguing than this.

I realize that, and there's no way that they wouldn't put up some sort of sound wall. I also realize that highways are in fact loud. The only reason why the highway example was put up was the argument that HSR trains are quiet because they're quiet from the inside, which is of course true and true of any other enclosed vehicle.

[samagon]

The trains won't be going through the neighborhoods at full speed, but at less than 50mph. There will be noise, and for more than a few seconds. Yet another reason to terminate at Northwest Mall, far less impact on neighborhoods.

 

the sounds they make under 50mph is noticeable, but not enough to make a stink about. What can be a great boon for everyone in our city should not be hamstrung out of the gate by the nimby attitude of a few unreasonable people. 

 

I realize that, and there's no way that they wouldn't put up some sort of sound wall. I also realize that highways are in fact loud. The only reason why the highway example was put up was the argument that HSR trains are quiet because they're quiet from the inside, which is of course true and true of any other enclosed vehicle.

 

I hope they do plan on putting up a sound wall, that would make the argument of these nimbys even more silly.

[Slick Vik]

The trains won't be going through the neighborhoods at full speed, but at less than 50mph. There will be noise, and for more than a few seconds. Yet another reason to terminate at Northwest Mall, far less impact on neighborhoods.

The impact is overstated and it will help hundreds of thousands of people per year. Oak forest and garden oaks aren't sacred areas, and it's not like a ten lane highway is being plowed through them. The northwest mall terminus makes zero sense.

[Sparrow]

The scoping process was closed for comments months ago.

 

I'm sorry Slick, but if you aren't going to take the two seconds to get your facts straight how can I take anything you say seriously? Landing page of the website says clearly and concisely public comments for the scoping period ends January 9th, 2015. It's a disservice to portray intentions by using false allegations and untrue information. Go to the website. Get the facts.

[Houston19514]

^  for the love of God, people.  There has never been a better reason than Slick Vik to familiarize yourself with the ignore feature.  ;-)

[Slick Vik]

I'm sorry Slick, but if you aren't going to take the two seconds to get your facts straight how can I take anything you say seriously? Landing page of the website says clearly and concisely public comments for the scoping period ends January 9th, 2015. It's a disservice to portray intentions by using false allegations and untrue information. Go to the website. Get the facts.

This is coming from Eckels himself. He said public comments could be submitted until January 9. But he said the FRA's procedural scoping was complete and it was no longer taking comments. Which begs the question where are these comments going? He made it sound like Texas central railway.

[LarryDierker]

^  for the love of God, people.  There has never been a better reason than Slick Vik to familiarize yourself with the ignore feature.  ;-)

 

but as the most quoted Haifer, he is virtually impossible to ignore.

[Luminare]

Bzzt...wrong answer. If you were riding it, you can't hear anymore than just a relatively quiet white noise. Here's an experiment anyone can try: Drive (or ride) in a car on the freeway. Turn off the A/C or the radio, and you'll hear an audible but study hum that can (and will) lull children to sleep. Now, exit and get off at a business somewhere (or whatever). Makes a world of difference, doesn't it? You can see why TxDOT (and others) install tall, soundproofing walls between homes and the highway. Freight trains do make a noise, but when HSR trains pass, they make a high-pitched squeaking noise, though only when you pass by then, and if you're stationary, you'll be hearing that all the time. Here's a video of a European HSR going by, and it's clear that there will be neighborhood impact that will need soundproofing.

 

 

*facepalms*

 

Yeah because there will be people that walk 4 feet away all the time and it will totally be going over 200 miles an hour when its about 2mins away from the station. Can we use simple physics here? In fact I would love if someone actually attempted a word problem like this and solved it. How fast the train would likely be going while it goes near a NIMBY's yard in Rice Military before it reaches the downtown station. I say at most it will only be going 25-35 mph and that's also at a continuous downward rate of speed.

 

IronTiger, I have to admit that you are really disappointing me here. You are clearly trying way too hard and literally are throwing everything including the kitchen sink! This is from someone who likes your comments. I really do, but this....dude seriously? I also like how at the end of you comment you have to set up the exact situation where this would occur. No it's all the time, but it happens when you do this and this and this and THIS and THEN it will happen....you hear it? YOU HEAR IT? Squeaking noise!!! Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn.

 

*sigh*

[IronTiger]

*facepalms*

 

Yeah because there will be people that walk 4 feet away all the time and it will totally be going over 200 miles an hour when its about 2mins away from the station. Can we use simple physics here? In fact I would love if someone actually attempted a word problem like this and solved it. How fast the train would likely be going while it goes near a NIMBY's yard in Rice Military before it reaches the downtown station. I say at most it will only be going 25-35 mph and that's also at a continuous downward rate of speed.

 

IronTiger, I have to admit that you are really disappointing me here. You are clearly trying way too hard and literally are throwing everything including the kitchen sink! This is from someone who likes your comments. I really do, but this....dude seriously? I also like how at the end of you comment you have to set up the exact situation where this would occur. No it's all the time, but it happens when you do this and this and this and THIS and THEN it will happen....you hear it? YOU HEAR IT? Squeaking noise!!! Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn.

 

*sigh*

Good grief. For what it's worth, I agree that the only houses affected that will be in the "impact zone" is a small one. But NIMBYs are going to be everywhere, even petty things like the H-E-B Montrose Market. Do you remember the stink about the schools nearby and the liquor license issue, so the first few weeks, the beer and wine section remained empty and roped off? No? In any case, there's always some compromise: the H-E-B didn't empty out onto the side streets and walled off, and noise reducing walls would also presumably be installed here (and get rid of the freight train noise while they're at it). The answer isn't "stuff it", or making ridiculous compromises that hamstring the whole thing, but to work things out.

I wasn't arguing the idea that NIMBYs were right, I was more arguing against the idea of the "zero impact" idea, which are two different things. YouknowwhatImean?

[Luminare]

I wasn't arguing the idea that NIMBYs were right, I was more arguing against the idea of the "zero impact" idea, which are two different things. YouknowwhatImean?

 

That wasn't exactly the vibe I sensed from your posts at all. I think if anything me and bigfootssocks and few others have pointed out that their will of course be bumps in the road, but the overall point is that they are just bumps not insurmountable mountains. They are minor annoyances, but nothing that should derail a project. NIMBY's live on those minor annoyances though because those are the only legs in their argument and the moment you have a perfectly logical answer to it is when they start to desperately throw the issue at you again and again. It's like when news programs use "buzz" words. NOISE! It makes noise! Noise is bad! Trains! They want to take away cars! Public Transportation! They want to steal our money! Change! Because we can't handle change and must selfishly make everyone else live the same way!

 

I'm all for speculation, contemplation, etc... but like your vid about "noise" it is creating noise. it is a distraction from reasonable conversations just like it distracts NIMBY's from being logical and making sound judgement. I mean how many times does it need to be said that there will most likely be some type of sound dampening thing or sound control devices or walls to control this very issue. Quite frankly these people already live next to railroad tracks and if they aren't happy of sleeping close to random train moments at night then why are they their? I mean yeah that vid you post does have the train squeal a bit, but unless that is going to make you deaf or shatter windows then it will be fine.

 

Now I am serious about that physics question guys!