Why Casual Visitors To Houston Area Skip Downtown

[infinite_jim]

There's a growing number of empty build-outs in the tunnel system too.

[roadrunner]

There's a growing number of empty build-outs in the tunnel system too.

I disagree. There have been some spots that have been vacant for years that are now being filled. At least on the NW side of downtown.

I can't wait for the Wich Which going in under Pennzoil to open.

[kylejack]

Cava Bistro was sharing kitchen space with Cielo, so Cava Bistro is gone too. Both were Mia Bella restaurants.

[IronTiger]

I have to agree with you on this post. My favorite "chain" or "brand" of hotels is Starwood. I do belong to their program and use them when I can, but having a boyfriend who gets free hotel rooms at any Hilton, Doubletree or Waldord Astoria is hard to pass up.

Whew! I thought you said you said you had a favorite "breed" of hotel.

Hotels are weird, man. They swap names easily: the Continental Inn (the ugly 1970s one) on the 59 area was a Holiday Inn Select until a year or so ago, and Holiday Inn (presumably) before that, except both Continental and Holiday Inn are the same company.

There's only been one Ramada in College Station, but they're currently on their third location, and every hotel they move out of got a different name.

[Daniepwils]

Cava Bistro was sharing kitchen space with Cielo, so Cava Bistro is gone too. Both were Mia Bella restaurants.

What? are they both really closed? I knew they shared a kitchen and bathroom. I loved Cava Bistro.....

[Houston19514]

Whew! I thought you said you said you had a favorite "breed" of hotel.

Hotels are weird, man. They swap names easily: the Continental Inn (the ugly 1970s one) on the 59 area was a Holiday Inn Select until a year or so ago, and Holiday Inn (presumably) before that, except both Continental and Holiday Inn are the same company.

Are you referring to the Crowne Plaza on the Southwest Freeway? I don't think it was ever a Holiday Inn. Prior to being Holiday Inn Select (which I always thought was the wrong badge for that hotel) it was not part of the Intercontinental Hotel Group family.

[kylejack]

What? are they both really closed? I knew they shared a kitchen and bathroom. I loved Cava Bistro.....

Ayup, gone. Grumbar closed near here a while back too (maybe 6 months?)

[LTAWACS]

What can we do?

[Daniepwils]

Ayup, gone. Grumbar closed near here a while back too (maybe 6 months?)

Ya, I knew about Grumbar. I actually ate at Cielo not to long ago, around Thanksgiving, it was really good.

[kylejack]

I had a really good meal at Cielo and a really bad meal.

Anyway, here's an article: http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/01-11-11-a-downtown-duos-demise-two-houston-restaurants-shutter-leaving-a-hole-on-main/

[1stWardDude]

Everyone is missing it.

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. At least a few times a week, I am having to push off beggers walking to lunch with co-workers.

The city refuses to deal with the problem. It's freakin unreal over near the ballpark. I've seen hundreds just sleeping on the side of the road and in every corner. There are several 1000 downtown because thats where all the handouts are located (particularly near the ballpark). What the city and all the churches that come down there to feed them dont get is that they just make the problem worse.

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

[crunchtastic]

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. -----

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

Excellent. I expect then you will pay some homeless people going hourly pick-up rate to work on your place, or clean up the blight in your your neighborhood, which doubtless is not gentrifying as fast as you would like it to.

[samagon]

Everyone is missing it.

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. At least a few times a week, I am having to push off beggers walking to lunch with co-workers.

The city refuses to deal with the problem. It's freakin unreal over near the ballpark. I've seen hundreds just sleeping on the side of the road and in every corner. There are several 1000 downtown because thats where all the handouts are located (particularly near the ballpark). What the city and all the churches that come down there to feed them dont get is that they just make the problem worse.

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

All big city cores deal with homeless, even the most vibrant.

The high concentration by MMpark is because there is a homeless shelter really close. There's also a lot over by pierce.

Ignore them if they bother you, typically all you have to do is say no, and they move on, it's like telling someone the time.

If you don't want to deal with homeless, Irvine down in Orange County seems to ship them to other cities, so maybe that is something you should look at.

[RedScare]

Everyone is missing it.

Are we?

Of your 10 posts on this forum, 9 have complained about the homeless, neighborhoods not gentrifying quickly enough for your tastes, and the power company not being expert landscapers of the public right of way. Perhaps it is not us missing it at all. The 1st Ward is not the Woodlands, and Downtown is not Town Center. And frankly, most of us do not want them ever to be. Maybe someone else is "missing it".

[kylejack]

Everyone is missing it.

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. At least a few times a week, I am having to push off beggers walking to lunch with co-workers.

The city refuses to deal with the problem. It's freakin unreal over near the ballpark. I've seen hundreds just sleeping on the side of the road and in every corner. There are several 1000 downtown because thats where all the handouts are located (particularly near the ballpark). What the city and all the churches that come down there to feed them dont get is that they just make the problem worse.

Wow, that sounds just awful, how do you cope with having to tell someone no when they ask you for money, someone who might have to sleep on the streets when it's going to get down into the 40s tonight? And how dare the city and churches feed hungry people, honestly the nerve of them to help the homeless.

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

It is your prerogative to give or not to give to organizations which help the homeless, but try to have some respect for the mission that they're doing. These organizations are doing what they can to help people who are suffering, regardless of who is at fault for that suffering, and it's not all about you. Downtown doesn't just belong to you and the co-workers that you walk to lunch with.

[Porchman]

If you don't want to deal with homeless, Irvine down in Orange County seems to ship them to other cities, so maybe that is something you should look at.

Some years ago, social workers here said the same thing about Dallas County. Dallas County social service agencies were reporting very few cases when contrasted with Houston, San Antonio, and Austin. Strangely, there were many people unable to support themselves showing up at the Greyhoud station in Midtown...from Dallas. Hmm...

I guess we in Harris County could provide the same service: Ship people to warmer climates. Regrettably, Corpus and Brownsville do not have the bridge infrastructure to handle what we could ship to them.

In our our current cool conditions, I encourge gifts to Star of Hope, Turning Point, Mission of Yahweh, programs like Lord of the Streets or Compass or a a shelter or a homeless program of your choice. All of them need help to serve.

[WAZ]

Everyone is missing it.

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. At least a few times a week, I am having to push off beggers walking to lunch with co-workers.

The city refuses to deal with the problem. It's freakin unreal over near the ballpark. I've seen hundreds just sleeping on the side of the road and in every corner. There are several 1000 downtown because thats where all the handouts are located (particularly near the ballpark). What the city and all the churches that come down there to feed them dont get is that they just make the problem worse.

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

I don't think the homeless are causing downtown to decline, and I say that for two reasons.

1: I don't think downtown has declined any more than other parts of the City. We just got through a nasty recession; it was inevitable that some businesses downtown would fail. Businesses have failed all over the City.

2: downtown's lack of street-life can be attributed to many things.

- Rice Village has a lock on outdoor street-life.

- The Galleria has a lock on high-end shopping.

- Houston is frickin' HOT most of the year; and downtown is even hotter because of all the concrete. (It's a heat island)

- Downtown's tunnels keep a lot of pedestrians off the streets (a result of their being air-conditioned; see above).

That said, I share your frustration with scary street people. Nobody wants someone pissing in their doorway, trashing their lawn, or harassing kids on the way to school. Even the people who run homeless shelters don't want that. Tamela Klatt runs Star of Hope downtown - and she lives with her son out in the suburbs.

But slashing funding for the homeless or expecting them to work for it will only make the problem worse. Many of the homeless suffer from mental illness or drug addiction and won't be able to work unless those things are treated. A 'housing first' model would be better to handle Houston's homeless problem. Instead of taking the homeless in for a few hours, feeding them or letting them sleep, and then putting them back out on the streets (like they do now); "housing first" provides them with longer term housing, where they can stay and get treatment for drugs or mental illness; and then learn skills. It gets them off the streets, and the goal is that when it's done, they're not homeless any more.

[1stWardDude]

Are we?

Of your 10 posts on this forum, 9 have complained about the homeless, neighborhoods not gentrifying quickly enough for your tastes, and the power company not being expert landscapers of the public right of way. Perhaps it is not us missing it at all. The 1st Ward is not the Woodlands, and Downtown is not Town Center. And frankly, most of us do not want them ever to be. Maybe someone else is "missing it".

RedScare - way to keep track. Obviously my opinion doesn't coincide with yours - but I must be hitting a nerve somewhere with all comments back, eh?

[1stWardDude]

Wow, that sounds just awful, how do you cope with having to tell someone no when they ask you for money, someone who might have to sleep on the streets when it's going to get down into the 40s tonight? And how dare the city and churches feed hungry people, honestly the nerve of them to help the homeless.

It is your prerogative to give or not to give to organizations which help the homeless, but try to have some respect for the mission that they're doing. These organizations are doing what they can to help people who are suffering, regardless of who is at fault for that suffering, and it's not all about you. Downtown doesn't just belong to you and the co-workers that you walk to lunch with.

How about respect for the businesses and residents that live there too. These organizations go to the same spots everytime and therefore the homeless just squat. Thus creating an envirnoment no one wants (trash, beggers, etc) - Something about teaching a man to fish, rather than just giving him one.....

Actually, I'd say downtown actually belongs more to me than the homeless. I pay taxes, where as they dont. They are just sucking from the proverbial govt teet. I know - no bleeding heart here....sorry.

Now that I've responded to a few of your personal attacks, obviously something should be done. However, conventional methods haven't worked in decades, thus my "work for it" comment.

[crunchtastic]

However, conventional methods haven't worked in decades, thus my "work for it" comment.

Thus, my question to you asking if you've hired the homeless to 'work for it.' You're a property owner, after all.

No? Then you're part of the problem, not the solution. You don't want your tax dollars spent on the homeless; and you expect other people to create the jobs that fix the problem.

Yet you attempt to take moral high ground? That's some balls.

[samagon]

But slashing funding for the homeless or expecting them to work for it will only make the problem worse. Many of the homeless suffer from mental illness or drug addiction and won't be able to work unless those things are treated. A 'housing first' model would be better to handle Houston's homeless problem. Instead of taking the homeless in for a few hours, feeding them or letting them sleep, and then putting them back out on the streets (like they do now); "housing first" provides them with longer term housing, where they can stay and get treatment for drugs or mental illness; and then learn skills. It gets them off the streets, and the goal is that when it's done, they're not homeless any more.

excellent goals, I think currently there are a lot of them that do not accept people for overnight stays if they are drug abusers.

what was the deal that was going on in (international!) news regarding some church coming in from the burbs to feed the homeless? I heard they got in trouble for not having the right permits, but I couldn't find a story on chron. I was just curious which of the churches it was, and which of the locations it was that got turned away. it seems like every day there are people who truck food in from the burbs that give them food for listening to their sermon.

I'm all for shelters, and especially I'm for the 'housing first' type of thing you describe, but in my opinion, the people who truck food in from the burbs aren't doing a service, other than ensuring the homeless are fed.

[brian0123]

Have lived in Midtown 3 years, and in that time my opinions on homelessness have changed. I donate to organizations that help the homeless... but never give to individuals anymore. About a year ago Midtown had a public meeting where they had reps from various orgs talk about how to help the homeless. They also had a former homeless man speak about how to help with the homeless. His rules were:

1. Never give money to an individual. It only enables them. They WILL use it for alcohol or drugs.

2. Never hire homeless to work in your garden/wash the car/etc. (this surprised me). This only enables them further. They believe that this is a way to make a living and thus refuse treatment and job placement help from organizations that are there to help them establish a true path out of homelessness.

3. Only give money to organizations that are setup to help the homeless. When asked for money from a homeless person, politely say "I'm sorry, but there are some wonderful organizations down the street like Search who are there for you."

While a dollar given to a church that just provides feeding equals a dollar, a dollar given to an organization like Search is more powerful because they have the power/size/and structure to leverage that dollar and turn it into more than just a dollar. In other words, orgs like Search give you more bang for your buck (and have proven track records for pulling people out of homelessness).

While 1stWardDude is pretty callous and incorrect about the homeless impact on Downtown... he is correct about the feedings that take place. We have problems where these feedings are used by criminals to find out who has a VA or a social security check coming... and thus the feedings become places for criminals to find their next victim. The feedings also feed some of the homeless that are there to prey on the others who are receiving help from Search, etc. The orgs also fail to clean up their trash and trespass on private property. The real eye opener for me has been the many times I've had homeless guys approach me and try to sell me their brand new donated jackets, sleeping bags, and pants for money.

The homeless will always be around, but just handing food out on the side of the road isn't a solution. Housing First programs (like mentioned earlier), and orgs like Search are the right ways to go.

[WAZ]

excellent goals, I think currently there are a lot of them that do not accept people for overnight stays if they are drug abusers.

what was the deal that was going on in (international!) news regarding some church coming in from the burbs to feed the homeless? I heard they got in trouble for not having the right permits, but I couldn't find a story on chron. I was just curious which of the churches it was, and which of the locations it was that got turned away. it seems like every day there are people who truck food in from the burbs that give them food for listening to their sermon.

I think you're talking about the fracas over Christian rapper Tre9 and his homeless ministries, "Feed a Friend." They had been feeding the homeless downtown for over a year, before they got shut down by the City over the lack of proper permits. I agree with the City and our Mayor on the permits; but the way they shut them down was kind of squirrelly.

I'm all for shelters, and especially I'm for the 'housing first' type of thing you describe, but in my opinion, the people who truck food in from the burbs aren't doing a service, other than ensuring the homeless are fed.

Oh I agree. In my view, soup kitchens' time has come and gone. Finding food isn't the hard part nowadays. Fast food restaurants have 99 cent specials. Finding a stable place to live is a lot more difficult for someone on the streets. And finding treatment for mental illness or drug addiction requires a caseworker or a lawyer, or both. THIS is where efforts should be spent, and that's what "housing first" does.

I'll confess that there's another reason I like "housing first." It helps mitigate the problems that neighbors have with soup kitchens and homeless day-centers. If they do it right, a "housing first" shelter shouldn't have homeless people congregated outside, and it shouldn't increase the numbers of homeless people on surrounding streets - the way soup kitchens do.

[Ross]

Here's the Chron story on the couple that didn't have permits: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7381016.html

[TV2EBoogaloo]

the problem with some of the more naive responses in this thread is they assume those people that will take that "place to live" actually want something more than a place to flop before they go back on the streets and get drunk and high again and then return to their "place to live"

unless you are willing to drug and alcohol test those that are staying there and REQUIRE some type of daily planned routine out of them you are doing nothing more than giving a drunken addict a place to sleep and rest up before returning to the streets worse than ever

and the only way to actually take charge of the life of those that "need" help like being talked about here is to arrest them, convict them of something, and then take custody of them

but unfortunately in this country we (as we can see from some replying in this post) are moving as a country rapidly to where you are free to urinate, dedicate, trash out, destroy, impede, and otherwise ruin others property as well as public property and you are free to do that at will as long as you can turn around and falsely claim you have no place to live

when the truth of the matter is these people HAVE plenty of options on where to live, but they refuse to follow the rules about drunkenness, drugs, violence, and hygiene so they have to be removed from those places

because again until they are MADE to change their life they will continue to do what they do now which is destroy and take from society at their will

after their third charge of public urination, deification, drunkenness, violence, gross littering, trespassing, and squatting they should be labeled as incorrigible and sent to a residential facility where their lives will be highly regulated...those that have a history of violence would be separated out and the rest would VERY GRADUALLY go from total control of their daily and hourly movements to possibly having a few hours of limited freedom to shop, interview for jobs, or work a job if they obtain one......others would be doing public works like picking up trash, scrubbing graffiti, or chopping weeds

it is silly that grown adults think you can just lure these types in like a stray kitten with some kibble and a warm cot when the reality is they will take your kibble and warm cot and then probably destroy it like a freaking lion.....because they need CONTROL TAKEN OF THEIR LIVES not just a place that lets the rest up and then go back out wilding

[RedScare]

Funny that you complain that the homeless "take from society" (the homeless use less services than most), then recommend the most expensive government solution of all...use the police to arrest, the jails to house, then the courts to order them to a reeducation camp.

Talk about naive.

[samagon]

Funny that you complain that the homeless "take from society" (the homeless use less services than most), then recommend the most expensive government solution of all...use the police to arrest, the jails to house, then the courts to order them to a reeducation camp.

Talk about naive.

I don't disagree with some of his sentiment, each person is different.

Some really and truly just need the meal that random suburban church gives them to get them in the right direction, and for a number that are willing to accept the system with a 'housing first' approach, there is going to be a fraction that will be there to abuse almost any system you have in place. I hope he wasn't talking about every person being carted away to jail, but certainly the people who are there to continue to abuse the system need somewhere else to go (or be sent) not quite jail.

certainly the ones that don't follow the rules about hygiene!

[kylejack]

How about respect for the businesses and residents that live there too.

Residents like me. I walk past homeless who ask me for money every day. I don't make up any stories about not having change on me. I simply say no and they leave me alone. They know it's a losing proposition to badger me for money when they could be asking someone else. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to give homeless money. The incidence of addiction among homeless is astronomical, so putting money in their hand virtually assures that they're going to get drunk or high on it.

Giving to organizations that help them is a whole different matter, though. Every M-F Palmer Memorial Episcopal Church has people lined up around the block for breakfast. These organizations need our help.

I did not make any personal attacks on you, by the way.

[LTAWACS]

Everyone is missing it.

I work downtown and live nearby - downtown will never be vibrant (except for the tunnels/park shops at lunch) because of all the homeless and vagrants. At least a few times a week, I am having to push off beggers walking to lunch with co-workers.

The city refuses to deal with the problem. It's freakin unreal over near the ballpark. I've seen hundreds just sleeping on the side of the road and in every corner. There are several 1000 downtown because thats where all the handouts are located (particularly near the ballpark). What the city and all the churches that come down there to feed them dont get is that they just make the problem worse.

I wouldn't give anyone anything - they should make them earn it somehow.

I agree with you. They spread filth, disease, and bad morals to everyone around them. I never give them anything. Those churches that come to downtown from way in the hell out there (katy) should be castigated.

[samagon]

I agree with you. They spread filth, disease, and bad morals to everyone around them. I never give them anything. Those churches that come to downtown from way in the hell out there (katy) should be castigated.

Take them back out to Katy with them is what they should be doing.