Let's Close Main Street To Cars

[kylejack]

Hmmm so first you are scared of cars

no

[infinite_jim]

I just take up the whole lane and if I collect some followers I will peel off at an appropriate spot (like a crosswalk) and let them pass. I also get the occasional "i'm gonna kill you with my car" driver but if you completely ignore'm they figure it out pretty quickly that there's literally 4 lane feeder roads paralleling Main and following you is the long way to get where they wanna go. 

[RedScare]

They can and they do. People unfamiliar with the area come down Main not realizing what a bad idea it is. A few weeks ago one told me to "get out of the road or I'm going to run your ass over."

 

Well, I must concede that one angry motorist is a good reason for closing several miles of a street.

[kylejack]

Well, I must concede that one angry motorist is a good reason for closing several miles of a street.

 

The rarity of use for Main Street by motor vehicles is all the more reason to proceed. The only ones using it are the occasional out of place person who doesn't know any better. They should be re-routed to a more effective road.

[RedScare]

The fact that every cyclist posting on this thread except for you opposes closing the street to cars should give you a good idea of your odds of success. 

 

Yours is a solution in search of a problem.

[kylejack]

The fact that every cyclist posting on this thread except for you opposes closing the street to cars should give you a good idea of your odds of success. 

 

Yours is a solution in search of a problem.

 

Thanks for that HAIF-specific argumentum ad populum, but August sounds receptive, as well as Abrahan who only thumbed up here but posted elsewhere, and several other cyclists on FB and my blog.

[RedScare]

Well, since the very thoughtful reasons posted by others were unpersuasive, I thought I'd bring up the obvious point that cyclists who were not myopic were concerned that closing streets in cities can have extremely negative consequences. Since you claim to be a fan of downtown and cycling, I'd ask you and your FB friends to be careful what you ask for. Cycling is making great strides in Houston, and I'd hate for cyclists to be the cause of creating a downtown dead zone.

 

We've had this discussion regarding Critical Mass. It has become very popular, and is achieving its stated goal. However, a few dozen riders insist on ruining the goodwill earned by 1500 others by riding like A-holes. Actions have consequences. Consider them before acting.

 

By the way, using Latin phrases in internet forum posts is way cool. It makes you look like you know Latin. Two big thumbs up for that!

[kylejack]

I don't know any Latin, just some common logical fallacies. (What was the HAIF poster consensus on the creation of a pedestrian zone at Main Street Square, which went through successfully?)

 

If Main Street being open to car traffic is the only thing preventing it from becoming a downtown dead zone then I would suggest we have problems, as Main Street is rarely used by cars. I didn't find editor's example in particular persuasive because that road is 4 or 5 lanes wide (not 1 narrow lane). Editor says downtown businesses need cars passing by. If that is true, then I don't see how so few cars passing by on Main Street currently are supporting the businesses.

 

The reality is that Goro, OKRA, Bad News and etc. aren't relying on cars driving down Main Street for their business. They brought their own fans and clientele to Downtown, fans that aren't concerned with the fact that none of these places have a valet or a dedicated parking lot.

[august948]

I don't know any Latin, just some common logical fallacies. (What was the HAIF poster consensus on the creation of a pedestrian zone at Main Street Square, which went through successfully?)

 

Main Street Square went through successfully, but has it been a success since then?  I'm not being negative, just seeking further clarification.  If it has been successful, then the city might consider expanding it a block or two on each side.  I think an alternative to closing it would be to create what the Dutch call a "woonerf", which is a road with a very low speed limit and where cyclists and pedestrians have legal priority over cars but where cars can still go, albeit slowly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf

[RedScare]

Main Street Square is probably the least active section of downtown. Glad to hear that you'd like the rest of Main Street to be just as active.

 

Like I said, be careful what you ask for. If you and your FB friends believe after careful consideration that expanding Main Street Square from I-10 to US 59 is a winner, then y'all know who to contact. Honestly, I don't think I'll be signing your iPetition.

[musicman]

Main Street Square is probably the least active section of downtown. Glad to hear that you'd like the rest of Main Street to be just as active.

 

Like I said, be careful what you ask for. If you and your FB friends believe after careful consideration that expanding Main Street Square from I-10 to US 59 is a winner, then y'all know who to contact. Honestly, I don't think I'll be signing your iPetition.

You are right The skaters went through this in the 90s when City Council was attempting to ban skating downtown. The problem was that a small group of skaters were causing property damage by grinding. So instead of banning grinding, they wanted to ban skating as a whole and a large group of us spoke before city council in order to allow skating to continue.

[LarryDierker]

How about we only close several blocks on both sides of Main Street Square, and only after 6PM , and allow alcoholic beverages to be consumed in public in that area.

[Andrew Broadfoot]

Besides the restaurants and offices that are open during the work week the only things open around there are CVS and the dollar store. Always an interesting crowd around there.

[LarryDierker]

Besides the restaurants and offices that are open during the work week the only things open around there are CVS and the dollar store. Always an interesting crowd around there.

 

like these

 

[kylejack]

n/t

[august948]

How about we only close several blocks on both sides of Main Street Square, and only after 6PM , and allow alcoholic beverages to be consumed in public in that area.

Drunk crowd at night with trains running through the middle? Not sure that's going to be a good idea.

[LarryDierker]

Drunk crowd at night with trains running through the middle? Not sure that's going to be a good idea.

 

Sounded like a good idea when I was typing it, but not so much now. I was really just thinking how much I enjoy having a few Mythos beers in Market Square, out in the open, and would enjoy taking off walking with my beer without worrying about a ticket.

[Ross]

Sounded like a good idea when I was typing it, but not so much now. I was really just thinking how much I enjoy having a few Mythos beers in Market Square, out in the open, and would enjoy taking off walking with my beer without worrying about a ticket.

 

I had thought that there was no prohibition on consuming alcohol in public in Texas. I was partially right. Turns out cities can work with TABC and get a ruling that bans open containers in public, as that term is defined, in the Central business district.

 

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/public_consumption.asp

 

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/cities/houston.pdf

[LarryDierker]

I had thought that there was no prohibition on consuming alcohol in public in Texas. I was partially right. Turns out cities can work with TABC and get a ruling that bans open containers in public, as that term is defined, in the Central business district.

 

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/public_consumption.asp

 

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/cities/houston.pdf

 

Makes sense. Ive drank at crystal beach enough times.

 

Why do establishments(even non cbd) not let you leave with alcohol purchased there? I've had to chug remaining beer to finish a bucket at closing time more than once, because i wasn't allowed to leave with beer I purchased.

[IronTiger]

The problem is the light rail, which can't be fixed. Personally, with Macy's closed now, the tunnels that run under there and connect to the building should be demolished and have -get this- an underground light rail station!* It's possible with engineering not to have it fill like a sieve during rains (Editor once said something supporting this), and Main Street could go through successfully there.

 

* slight fake enthusiasm

 

They recently closed off a small segment of road (College Main) in College Station, but outside of allowing some extra outdoor seating for bars, seems now emptier than ever, even after dark. I'm surprised that the military surplus store hasn't shut down, though the sushi restaurant is only open after dark now.

[RedScare]

 It's possible with engineering not to have it fill like a sieve during rains (Editor once said something supporting this), and Main Street could go through successfully there.

 

Actually, even with engineering, it would be impossible to have anything "fill like a sieve", since a sieve is a sifter designed with mesh to allow liquid to flow through it.

 

 

[mfastx]

Rail stations should be underground downtown.  It would be very expensive to construct with our crappy soil, but it'd be far superior.  The only rail plan that had subway stations downtown was that old heavy rail plan. 

 

Trains would also be able to travel much faster. 

[RedScare]

Rail stations should be underground downtown.  It would be very expensive to construct with our crappy soil, but it'd be far superior.  The only rail plan that had subway stations downtown was that old heavy rail plan. 

 

Trains would also be able to travel much faster. 

 

Not really. In downtown, the rail stations are spaced every 4 blocks. The blocks are 250 feet long. Therefore, the trains are stopping every 1000 feet. They could not go any faster than they currently go at street level. The only thing that putting rail underground would do is make all of the passengers go up and down flights of stairs in order to get to a train that is currently only a few feet away.

 

Why would you want to punish all rail riders like that? I thought you liked trains?

[mfastx]

Not really. In downtown, the rail stations are spaced every 4 blocks. The blocks are 250 feet long. Therefore, the trains are stopping every 1000 feet. They could not go any faster than they currently go at street level. The only thing that putting rail underground would do is make all of the passengers go up and down flights of stairs in order to get to a train that is currently only a few feet away.

 

Why would you want to punish all rail riders like that? I thought you liked trains?

 

Haha, well in Boston the light rail certainly travels faster underground than up above.  Why would they be limited to street level speed?  When I ride the rail downtown, trains sometimes have to stop at lights.  That would be eliminated, and I'd imagine that they would be able to go a bit faster (say 40ish mph instead of the 25ish they do now). 

 

Also, I think you could eliminate a station downtown.  Maybe get rid of Preston, move MSS station up a couple blocks, then move Bell up a block. 

[RedScare]

So, your proposal to improve light rail service in Houston is to have even fewer stations in which to catch the train, making people walk further to catch it, in addition to making people walk down flights of stairs in order to get there? Do us a favor, never become a transit chief. You have more ways to screw the transit rider than METRO does.

 

 

BTW, I look forward to your analysis of the rate of acceleration of Siemens trains, the top speed attained before having to slow down, and how much deceleration can be safely achieved without throwing passengers forward.

[mfastx]

So, your proposal to improve light rail service in Houston is to have even fewer stations in which to catch the train, making people walk further to catch it, in addition to making people walk down flights of stairs in order to get there? Do us a favor, never become a transit chief. You have more ways to screw the transit rider than METRO does.

 

 

BTW, I look forward to your analysis of the rate of acceleration of Siemens trains, the top speed attained before having to slow down, and how much deceleration can be safely achieved without throwing passengers forward.

 

The way you say it makes the idea sound horrible, I'll give you that.  But what I've proposed works very well in other cities. 

 

First of all, catching a subway could be extremely convenient especially if the downtown tunnels were connected to the station.  Honestly, it would be even *more* convenient for the transit rider to exit the subway station, walk through a tunnel directly into their building, without even having to go outside in the heat.  Now that's convenience!

 

Also, there would be fare gates at subway stations eliminating free loaders.  And higher speeds of the train would certainly improve travel times and reliability.  In addition, surface crashes with buses/cars are eliminated, thus improving the safety of motorists and pedestrians.  Implementing a subway in downtown would certainly not "screw the transit rider" any more than having a surface train that stops at lights, goes slower than a subway, and encourages free loading. 

 

Lastly, having to walk down a flight of steps or an escalator certainly isn't a deciding factor of whether I take public transportation or not.  Nor do I know anyone that factors this into the equation. 

[livincinco]

The rarity of use for Main Street by motor vehicles is all the more reason to proceed. The only ones using it are the occasional out of place person who doesn't know any better. They should be re-routed to a more effective road.

I agree that Main Street is pretty useless to cars. It's a narrow road and there are really limited options for turning.

I think it comes down to the question of whether you think closing the road would significantly increase bike/pedestrian traffic in the area. My personal feeling is that pedestrian zones are more effective when you have an area that's already high in pedestrian traffic prior to the establishment of the zone.

I would much rather see the city create an evening/weekend pedestrian zone around Market Square park instead. You've already got a rapidly growing bar and restaurant scene there that would really benefit from something like that.

[Ross]

Makes sense. Ive drank at crystal beach enough times.

 

Why do establishments(even non cbd) not let you leave with alcohol purchased there? I've had to chug remaining beer to finish a bucket at closing time more than once, because i wasn't allowed to leave with beer I purchased.

 

TABC regulations *or the law) prohibit taking alcohol from an establishment licensed for on premise consumption. That gives you weird situations like Minute Maid Park, where you can't leave certain parts of the stadium with a drink, even though they are sold on the next level as well.

[infinite_jim]

As a weekend recreational auto-driver, I have to admit, crusin' down Main St. is pretty fun. Better than crusin' Westheimer and I don't even mind being behind a couple of cyclists either. If I wanted to get somewhere in an efficient manner I'd take Travis or Fannin. 

[IronTiger]

The problem with closing it, even more important than loss of business:

- The train is still there, and it would in theory increase the number of jaywalkers across the tracks, especially since there's no more crosswalks.

- There's still other streets that cross Main.

Personally, I still think the tracks should be depressed outside of the former Macy's, and restore traffic.