New Development Projects On FM 1960

[YakuzaIce]

What is with neighborhoods in Houston particularly  former suburban ones going downhill is it part of the no zoning thing or what? ( I thought ur values were suppose to go up) I just dont quite understand it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because when newer developments are built a little further out many of the people go with it causing home values to drop in the inner ring of suburbs. It has nothing to do with zoning. But after a while (I guess depending how close it is) values will begin going up as it loses its ghetto stigma as people who want a house closer in but can't afford inner loop start moving in. You can see this happening with some of the second ring suburbs outside of the loop.

[SpringTX]

You can see this happening with some of the second ring suburbs outside of the loop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is encouraging news to me personally. Do you have some examples of neighborhoods in Houston where this is happening?

[kjb434]

Westbury, parts of Meyerland, Some areas north of I-10 between the belt and the loop.

[Houston19514]

and this is NOT unique to Houston. It happens in every city.

[The Great Hizzy!]

It's called aging neighborhoods. Things don't look new and shiny forever, including the suburbs. The subdivisions along 1960 are among the oldest of those 60s era developments resting outside the city of Houston. I've never noticed anything slummy or rundown about the 1960 strip although I agree that the intersection @ Veterans Memorial looks unspectacular. What I see when I drive down it is what happens to all neighborhoods over 20 or 30 years; it starts to show its age, and seeing how subdivisions in west Harris County, League City, Pearland, Sugarland, etc, all look so new, it makes the older 'burbs seem "rundown" by comparison.

It's the same phenomena in the city. The older ones look "dreary" compared to the newer ones, even though the demographics and economics are about the same.

[infinite_jim]

and this is NOT unique to Houston.  It happens in every city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ref: rem koolhaus - junk space

[SpringTX]

So the subdivisions along 1960 will start see their housing values increase when?:

__ in 5 years

__ in 10 years

__ in 20 years

__ never

(Select one)

[Guest danax]

So the subdivisions along 1960 will start see their housing values increase when?:

    __ in 5 years

    __ in 10 years

    __ in 20 years

    __ never

(Select one)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think those nicer 70s a la Brady Bunch homes surrounding Champions will be classics one day. How long? Homes usually take at least 40-50 years before they go from just plain old to "ooh, how cool!". They're big enough too for most young families. A lot of the surrounding, lesser quality neighborhoods nearer to Ella and down Vet. Mem towards the Belt might decline for awhile, or maybe they'll just stay as is. Anything right now with a price range above 150K might be able to hold off the riff-raff indefinitely. It's just that loans are so easy and rates are so low that 2 people making $12 hr. can often afford some of the homes around Belt 8 and Antoine and Ella and 1960, for example. Not that these people are necessarily bad people, but a lot have bad credit, some go in with someone that they are not married to, and, with adjustable mortgages. These things are setting them up for foreclosures, which brings in professional investors, which bring in renters, etc. We've talked about this so sorry to repeat myself.

I don't mean to sound alarmist to anyone living up there, it's just that those tract houses between 8 and 1960 are affordable housing for many new home buyers in a currently very liberal mortgage environment.

[SpringTX]

Well, yes and no.  I would consider myself more of an inner-looper myself but there are certain aspects tucked within all those hideous strip centers that I can appreciate.

With so many cheaply built retail strip centers, the rent must be very affordable.  This seems to have allowed a lot of unique mom-&-pop independent businesses to open up and thrive.(beyond just nail salons)  IMO retail in general has become so homogenized with everything being owned by May stores, Federated, or Wal-mart.  The inner-loop centers that used to offer unique shopping experiences, such as the River Oaks shopping center, Rice Village, etc. are now all a similiar mix of national stores.  Gap, Anne Taylor Loft, whatever.  Champions Village has about the same mix as Meyerland Village. The unique flavor of each spot is getting watered down.

Then you have the row-after-row of butt-ugly strip centers on 1960. Instead of the disney-fied version of a quaint faux-main street offered up by the new "lifestyle centers," filled with major corporate chains, you have the thriving diversity of independent businesses, (wrapped up in an architecturally ugly package.)  It is what it is, but a major retail artery filled with stores owned and operated by members of the community is more of what a "main street" should be IMO. 

The ugly strip center that was in front of my old digs in Ponderosa would not catch your attention, but it had a unique mix of stores from the tacky looking Italian place that served up Calzones the Houston Press once called the best in town, to the luncheon tea room where two old Queens sold gaudy jewelry, knick-knacks & served the suburban ladies sandwiches in the front, and did their hair in the salon in back.

It's not exactly soul-less, you just have to dig a little deeper to find it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL. By the way, that Italian place is now a Mexican taqueria.

You are definitely a connoisseur of "junk culture". Those nasty places scare middle-class people away. They cater to the immigrant population, the ghetto crowd, and other disenfranchised segments of the population.

Here's a question. Some of those nasty, old strip centers are nearly vacant. Yet they're building a brand new one near Ella right now as we speak. And right across the street from it is a vacant one. What are they thinking? Will the stores going into the new strip center be any better than their neighbors?

[rps324]

LOL.  By the way, that Italian place is now a Mexican taqueria.

You are definitely a connoisseur of "junk culture".    Those nasty places scare middle-class people away.  They cater to the immigrant population, the ghetto crowd, and other disenfranchised segments of the population.

Here's a question.  Some of those nasty, old strip centers are nearly vacant.  Yet they're building a brand new one near Ella right now as we speak.  And right across the street from it is a vacant one.  What are they thinking?  Will the stores going into the new strip center be any better than their neighbors?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea why they build more and more and more of those strip centers out there like that.

The places I described really didn't attract so much of the ghetto crowd, although I am disappointed to hear the Italian place shut down. I am sure all the old Republican blue-hairs that frequent the "Butler's Pantry" to get their tea cakes and hair curled in one trip would take exception to being categorized in any of the above!

I disagree with the assertion, though, that supporting locally owned independent businesses equates with nothing more than dealing with junk culture. It is easy, however, for me to see the concept that many typical middle-class suburbanites would find retail that is not the same corporate, white-bread package they are accustomed to as unappealing.

[RedScare]

LOL.  By the way, that Italian place is now a Mexican taqueria.

You are definitely a connoisseur of "junk culture".    Those nasty places scare middle-class people away.  They cater to the immigrant population, the ghetto crowd, and other disenfranchised segments of the population.

Here's a question.  Some of those nasty, old strip centers are nearly vacant.  Yet they're building a brand new one near Ella right now as we speak.  And right across the street from it is a vacant one.  What are they thinking?  Will the stores going into the new strip center be any better than their neighbors?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those nasty places serve their neighborhood. If the customers are immigrants, ghtto people and other dienfranchised segments of the population, then that is because the neighborhood is comprised of those groups.

Interestingly enough, rps is right. These butt-ugly strip centers house America's entrepreneurs. The "lifestyle centers" only contain national chains. There are no individuals in there. While you may be uncomfortable in these strip centers, they are the real America.

BTW, these strip centers are the southern version of street level retail in the rust belt cities.

[SpringTX]

Actually, I was probably a little too cheeky in describing middle-class fear of those places. The middle-class isn't quite as uptight as it used to be. Many of the family-owned restaurants, bars, used bookstores, and specialty clothing boutiques on 1960 appear to be very popular with middle-class residents. And they are truly unique, which is very appealing to those who are tired of the same chain stores seen in every mall in America.

However, it's safe to say that many businesses on 1960 are aimed at segments of the population that generally don't include your average middle-class residents. Rightly or wrongly, some of these are frowned upon, and if associated with occasional crimes, they can even be feared. Some of these include pawn shops and check-cashing places. Others might include tattoo parlors and head shops on this list. Others might add various ethnic discos, ethnic barber shops, and ethnic markets selling meats in bulk. No offense intended to any of these. They definitely reflect the surrounding community.

[ENGcons]

I live up anorth of the 1960 area off Spring Cypress and have lived in Greenwood Forest off 1960 most of my life growing up. I have watche that area go fro a nice Champions suburban area to overrun with junk. 1960 from Veterans to 45 is noting but cheap strip centers and signs. There is that littel gem area around Champions Forest Drive that has developed nicely. However the residents of Greenwood are losing money hand over fist on property values because of th declining Klein Forest High School, and the southern portion of the school district which is a lower income area populationg that school.

NOrht of 1960 the neighborhoods seem to be stable and growing. Klein Oak which will become a 5A school again next year is a good school. Due to some Klein school board members who are now not on the board anymore having a self pleasing agenda keeping hteir own neighbothoods inthe Klein High zone have caused all the problems for the district, and have hurt some property values.

Kickerillo is building a fantastic development on Louetta and 249 with High end gated community homes, a high end shopping center, and the park development. We could not be happier since all this does is increase the value of the homes around it.

Also Klein is poised to build a 5th High School in this area, they are already aquiring the land for it, and Construction should start in 5-8 years. This will also be a great boost for the area.

With the massive building of homes in the area, mid to high end, the new shopping developments, and a new High School the Spring Cypress, Louetta area along 249 is exploding in value.

[pineda]

Due to some Klein school board members who are now not on the board anymore having a self pleasing agenda keeping hteir own neighbothoods inthe Klein High zone have caused all the problems for the district, and have hurt some property values.

Curious as to who you're referring to, can you name names?

Also Klein is poised to build a 5th High School in this area, they are already aquiring the land for it, and Construction should start in 5-8 years.

Is this the one that the KISD board is in trouble for right now, because they are trying to condemn the land they want, rather than paying fair market value for it?

Klein Oak which will become a 5A school again next year is a good school.

Gotta agree with you there, we LOVE Klein Oak High School!

And now that Klein Oak has an IB program at the school, we are drawing students from across the district. My daughter is in classes with some from Klein Forest by the way, and they really like being in the program at Oak.

[ENGcons]

No I will not mention names from the School Board, but these are former, not current members of the board. And this is not just my opinion or heresay, it is common knowledge within he district, hence the title former members of the KISD School Board.

And the board is not in trouble for aquiring the land. The owner is the only one who thinks this is not fair market value, which of course I an understand due to the the fact Klein had to impose imminent domain. From my understanding the owner of the land jacked up his "fair market value" price per acre after Kickerillo decided to move in the area. What Klein is offering is the market value for the land. I for one am looking forward to the New High School. I would rather that land be used for that than more homes going up.

No I will not mention names from the School Board, but these are former, not current members of the board. And this is not just my opinion or heresay, it is common knowledge within he district, hence the title former members of the KISD School Board.

And the board is not in trouble for aquiring the land. The owner is the only one who thinks this is not fair market value, which of course I an understand due to the the fact Klein had to impose imminent domain. From my understanding the owner of the land jacked up his "fair market value" price per acre after Kickerillo decided to move in the area. What Klein is offering is the market value for the land. I for one am looking forward to the New High School. I would rather that land be used for that than more homes going up.

[Montrose1100]

Does this mean 1960 is headed upwards? Isn't 1960 supposed to be nothing but pawn shops and tattoo parlors these days? What say the experts?

Have you ever been to 1960? Its a real nice place. There are so many shops and resteraunts. There are also some (Dare I say) great strip centers. Like the one by Champians Drive, With the Barnes & Nobles, Pei Wei, etc. Theres a huge population that looks to 1960 for shopping needs (Other then the Willowbrook or Woodlands Mall). Traffic is so terrible on 1960, because everyone is there. There are so many stores, and alot being built.

Its not heading upwards, just because of a target or home depot, its already up there.

[utpsychology]

http://www.kpft.org/news/013103story1.html

Interesting... about the resegregation in 1960 area public schools.

[infinite_jim]

people in the suburbs already segregate themselves into income levels via subdivisions, might as well ...

i really love the "junk" shopping centers on 1960 and seriously cannot be bothered as to the champions shopping centers.

Unfortunatly, the property values are going down due to "neighborhood tipping"

and Klein Oak is a pretty good school, i went there for my last two years of high school; frankly didn't really like it but not many people do (like high school), but meet a few lifelong friends.

[pineda]

Klein Forest is a Grammy-award winning school that works very hard to find college placement for its' grads.

[mrfootball]

Having grown up in that area, it was a really nice place to live up until the late 1980's when Spring ISD incorporated an area filled with low-rent apartments that previously were zoned to Aldine ISD. This move changed the demographics of what once was a very solid and safe Westfield HS, into a 'rough' school with gangs and unsavory types (same exact story with Klein Forest). This along with the massive influx of new apartments in the area, made property values in Ponderosa and Olde Oaks (still nice looking Kickerillo-designed neighborhoods with lots of trees, big yards and nice homes) stagnate. All of this low-end dead weight being built on the opposite side of the district began to impact the residents of Olde Oaks, Northgate, Ponderosa, and Westador when their former Exemplary schools began to look like ghettos. And so, many of the original owners in these neighborhoods started to evacuate to The Woodlands, Cypress, and Champions areas. (...still, there are a lot who chose to stay, and if you drive through those neighborhoods today, you'll see they are still well-maintained, and there's still a lot of money in the area).

When the school district goes downhill, so do property values. Such is the rule in Suburbia. Spring ISD, screwed the residents of the neighborhoods on the North side of FM 1960 by not building a new HS fast enough to compensate for the massive growth in the Southern (southside of FM 1960) part of the district. Only now, 15 years later, they're finally set to open 2 new HS which may or may not return Westfield to its former self, but the damage has been done. The Greater 1960 Alliance is trying to create a management district that will greatly improve the area, however (if I recall) it never got to the floor for a vote due to the continued wrangling over School funding.

With that said, further down FM 1960 towards the Champions area is holding its own, well. Klein is still strong, and the real new growth is occuring further into Cypress, Tomball, and Spring proper. The area around FM 249 has seen a Lupe Tortillas, Barton Springs Grill, PF Changs, and a new Luxury Retail 'Lifestyle' center (see Central Market thread) planned or already built.

[ENGcons]

I grew up in this areas too, and graduated from Klein Forest in 90 so I have watched it deteriorate into its current state along with Westfield. I now live in Gleannloch Farms and enjoy the area alot and look forward to the planned growth that Klein is pursuing.

I understand that the residents in Northgate, Olde Oaks, etc have petitioned the Klein School District to be annexed out of Spring ISD and into Klein. Hoping that their kids would attend Klein Collins. Don't know if it will happen, but I know those people are upset with Spring enough to shoot down their bond program at the voting booth. Kleing is wrestling withthese same prolems at KF and have no real solutions for the problem. It is affecting property values in Greenwood Forest which is where I grew up, and my parents still live.

[bcnet]

Grew up in Ponderosa and graduated from Westfield in 91. My parents sold their home in Ponderosa about 5 years ago before property values were hurt any further due to the blight of 1960, increased crime and and schools where many people don't want to send their kids.

[mrfootball]

Does Mattress Mac still live over in Northgate?

That was a beautiful neighborhood. I remember that Hakeem Olajuwon lived there for a time, (back when he was just 'Akeem'). When I was a kid I used to see him at Denny's every now and then, enjoying a Grand Slam breakfast...

- Hey BC, I grew up in Ponderosa and graduated in '91 as well!

- ENG (I went to Greenwood Elementary from 79 to 83).

[tigereye]

If I'm not mistaken, I recall seeing a project in TxDOT to turn the intersection of 1960 and Kuykendahl into a "super-intersection" with Kuykendahl or 1960 tunneling below grade (not sure which way). Construction is supposed to start in 2007 I believe. The other day, I noticed land has begun being cleader for this massive intersection.

Can anyone confirm this project?

[RedScare]

If I'm not mistaken, I recall seeing a project in TxDOT to turn the intersection of 1960 and Kuykendahl into a "super-intersection" with Kuykendahl or 1960 tunneling below grade (not sure which way). Construction is supposed to start in 2007 I believe. The other day, I noticed land has begun being cleader for this massive intersection.

Can anyone confirm this project?

While not an official confirmation, my parents, who live just north of the intersection, in Cypresswood, told me over Christmas that Kuykendahl/1960 was getting the over/under treatment. However, I thought it was to begin this year, not 2007.

[Klein Kid]

I have a question regarding Cypresswood Drive. What is going on outside of Terranova West on Cypresswood? You take a left from Kuykendahl coming from 1960. The ground has been broken for a while now, but there has been nothing going up. I hope it's something nice, the drive from Kuykendahl is very pleasant, since it is wooded.

[Montrose1100]

I have a question regarding Cypresswood Drive. What is going on outside of Terranova West on Cypresswood? You take a left from Kuykendahl coming from 1960. The ground has been broken for a while now, but there has been nothing going up. I hope it's something nice, the drive from Kuykendahl is very pleasant, since it is wooded.

The land right outside of the subdivison? With the wooden polls and weird wire that goes all the way around it? I am not sure, they started clearing it up a year or so ago. I want to say a strip center, because they cleared out everything, but I'm not certain.

[utpsychology]

Check out this Greenwood Forest beauty!! And what a steal! Very tastefully decorated too!

http://www.har.com/search/engine/indexdeta...=0&backButton=Y

[mrfootball]

They ought to re-zone Greenwood Forest along with the Woods of Wimbledon to Klein HS or even Cy-Creek.

Then allow Olde Oaks, Northgate, and Ponderosa to secede from Spring ISD to be annexed to Klein ISD (Klein Collins) territory.

That would go a long way towards saving those nice older neighborhoods.

[hbcu]

Klein Forest has an oddly drawn attendance zone that takes kids from Acres Homes (249 and West Montgomery) for obvious reasons which is ridiculous when Eisenhower High is right next door...

But the 1960 area and Klein area is a product of Greenspoint moving north along nort-south arteries of Veterans, Ella and Kuykendahl.

Look at Louetta now and I-45...there's a HUD housing project coming up and the Louetta wal-mart has had its fair share of news in the past year.

It's no wonder Montgomery is seeing all these new homes built...