New Development Projects On FM 1960

[SpringTX]

There a few new development projects on 1960 in the news recently. There's a Home Depot going up. I believe there is a Target going up as well. There's a new medical hospital almost completed. And they're opening a P.F. Chang's restaurant near Willowbrook.

Does this mean 1960 is headed upwards? Isn't 1960 supposed to be nothing but pawn shops and tattoo parlors these days? What say the experts?

[Casual Observer]

Isn't 1960 supposed to be nothing but pawn shops and tattoo parlors these days?  What say the experts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What experts? I know that FM1960 from SH249 to around I-45 is a pretty nice area. Its a little unorganized for my taste, but nice none the less.

[pineda]

I remember reading earlier this year about the efforts of former Chamber of Commerce prez. Larry Lipton and some friends of his trying to put together a 1960 Management District. They had Peggy Hamrick's support and Jon Lindsay's, but couldn't get State Rep. Debbie Riddle's. Can't really say why. As I understood it, they were trying to get merchants along 1960 to pitch in monetarily to help clean up the area. I'm pretty sure they'll try again next session to get support for their efforts.

[InnerLoopOnly]

That stretch from 45 to 249 is your typical suburban sprawl. There is really no rhyme or reason to it. I would like to see some efforts to change that implemented up there. Maybe something near 249 going towards the HP campus would be good.

[pineda]

I believe Vincente Kickerillo and his partner (Walter Mischer, maybe?) bought a lot of the land that HP/Compaq had up for sale, and a lot of the residents there were sad that the forested area would be bulldozed to the ground for yet more McMansions. But, Vincente and his partner worked out a deal and have agreed to set aside some of the land for a park-like setting. It's a small start, but it's a start in the right direction. Maybe other developers will follow this example and even expand upon it even further.

[HtownKid]

When I was last in Houston I went to Jersey Village area of 1960 it went from that pawnshop look to verynice upscale around Champions with those stucco looking shopping centers with Gap an Bed Bath Beyond Palalis Royal(not sure what it is) even say a Rolls Royce parked in front of a Jasons Deli

[rps324]

I remember reading earlier this year about the efforts of former Chamber of Commerce prez. Larry Lipton and some friends of his trying to put together a 1960 Management District. They had Peggy Hamrick's support and Jon Lindsay's, but couldn't get State Rep. Debbie Riddle's. Can't really say why. As I understood it, they were trying to get merchants along 1960 to pitch in monetarily to help clean up the area. I'm pretty sure they'll try again next session to get support for their efforts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't remember the details, but there was some kind of rift in that chamber politically that ultimately resulted in the death of this deal.

The subdivisions along 1960 are still very well maintained. But there seems to be that dividing line forming regarding being east or west of Veterans Memorial/Stuebner-Airline. It is going to take more than a Target and a Home Cheapo to create an upswing out there. They will simply be absobed into the existing retail clutter.

Isn't Cypresswood, Louetta & Spring Cypress now designated "scenic drives" (no wise-cracks, I didn't say Louetta road was actually SCENIC, it is what the designation is called I am pretty sure) which means they have some sort of signage limitations?

[GoAtomic]

Isn't Cypresswood, Louetta & Spring Cypress now designated "scenic drives" (no wise-cracks, I didn't say Louetta road was actually SCENIC, it is what the designation is called I am pretty sure) which means they have some sort of signage limitations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell us more, RPS. I've never heard of that designation - do you have any info on how they decide to apply it to a road?

I can sure think of a few roadways that would benefit from something like this.

[RedScare]

The scenic designations are used primarily to prevent billboard construction along the routes designated. Most would hardly call Louetta scenic, though there are a few places where the developers haven't clearcut the trees yet.

[pineda]

I have heard about the Scenic Designation for both Spring Cypress and Cypresswood, but I haven't heard that Louetta was included in that.

[SpringTX]

When I was last in Houston I went to Jersey Village area of 1960 it went from that  pawnshop look to verynice upscale around Champions with those stucco looking shopping centers with Gap an Bed Bath Beyond Palalis Royal(not sure what it is) even say a Rolls Royce parked in front of a Jasons Deli

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1960 looks good around Champions, but then once you get past Champions, it takes a big dip downward again, and stays that way all the way to Willowbrook. And the Willowbrook area is not what it used to be at all. So, to me, it seems almost like 1960 is pretty run-down in general...except for that little island/stronghold around Champions. I guess the fate of the neighborhoods along 1960 will very much determine the quality of the retail/commercial on it. And, historically, the neighborhoods along 1960 have been in a long, slow downward slide. So I'm wondering what 1960 will look like 10 years from now.

[kjb434]

Why so pessimistic?

[SpringTX]

Why so pessimistic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The seemingly endless northward expansion of the "Greater Gunspoint" area. The neighborhoods along 1960 are basically surrounded with low-income apartment complexes now. And the bus line along 1960 doesn't help.

[RedScare]

"And the bus line along 1960 doesn't help."

I love it! Now, we can get some real ____ flying. Can you find any authority anywhere to support your 'bus line raises crime rates' theory?

I am a defense lawyer. I spent 6 years as an assistant DA. I've heard this crap for as long as I can remember. Remember the Kingwood annexation theory...annexing will drive up crime rates...like criminals look for city limit signs!

Do criminals steal your TV and wait at the bus stop with a 35 inch Sony in their hands?

If you have support for the proposition that mass transit raises crime rates, please let us see it. We're all dying to see the statistics.

[kjb434]

good point RedScare.

I'm happy about the Bus Line.

FM 1960 handles way too much volume.

Luckily they will build a grade separate interchange at Kuykendahl. It will help but not solve everything.

Usually I avoid FM 1960 by driving a parallel road and when I need to cross or make it to some business on FM 1960 I'll take a perpendicular road.

It helps just rid of some headaches and I'm just one less car on FM 1960

[SpringTX]

"And the bus line along 1960 doesn't help."

I love it!  Now, we can get some real ____ flying.  Can you find any authority anywhere to support your 'bus line raises crime rates' theory?

I am a defense lawyer.  I spent 6 years as an assistant DA.  I've heard this crap for as long as I can remember.  Remember the Kingwood annexation theory...annexing will drive up crime rates...like criminals look for city limit signs!

Do criminals steal your TV and wait at the bus stop with a 35 inch Sony in their hands?

If you have support for the proposition that mass transit raises crime rates, please let us see it.  We're all dying to see the statistics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh oh. It sounds like we're definitely headed for some sparks here. Let me qualify what I meant. The bus line affects the quality and condition of retail establishments along 1960, not necessarily the crime rate, at least not directly. A bus line serves the segment of the population that can't afford a car, or who can't afford 2 cars per household, etc.

[WestGrayGuy]

1960 is a suburban wasteland filled with chain restaurants, car washes and nail salons. There is no soul. Don't even try to turn left anywhere on that road.

Yes, I am an inner loop snob.

[kjb434]

That why a stratgically plan my trip out there to avoid left turn unless I have an arrow at an intersection.

[sevfiv]

1960 is a suburban wasteland filled with chain restaurants, car washes and nail salons. There is no soul.

that's mainstream america for ya

[LTAWACS]

what a waste. they should petition to be annexed by houston.

[RedScare]

Uh oh.  It sounds like we're definitely headed for some sparks here.  Let me qualify what I meant.  The bus line affects the quality and condition of retail establishments along 1960, not necessarily the crime rate, at least not directly.  A bus line serves the segment of the population that can't afford a car, or who can't afford 2 cars per household, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was ready, Spring Tx.

As far as your qualification, though, I would think that the bus line followed the lower income retail, rather than the other way around. The lower income residents in the 1960 area moved there in the mid to late 80s, when Houston real estate went belly up and you could buy suburban homes for a song (try $50,000 or less). The retail aimed at lower income residents followed the residents. The bus line came to serve the residents, as well as a response by METRO to the demands of the community to serve the area.

Even though you may not appreciate the bus there, many other 1960 residents do.

[SpringTX]

I was ready, Spring Tx. 

As far as your qualification, though, I would think that the bus line followed the lower income retail, rather than the other way around.  The lower income residents in the 1960 area moved there in the mid to late 80s, when Houston real estate went belly up and you could buy suburban homes for a song (try $50,000 or less).  The retail aimed at lower income residents followed the residents.  The bus line came to serve the residents, as well as a response by METRO to the demands of the community to serve the area.

Even though you may not appreciate the bus there, many other 1960 residents do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and a lot of the upscale apartment complexes for young people working in Greenspoint, etc. converted to low-income or Section 8 in the 80's. The housing along 1960 was primarily very upscale subdivisions at the time, and still is above-average, with homes now going for usually in the $150K to $200K range, with a small number as high as $500K.

Nothing wrong with a bus. I personally love buses. The homeowners along 1960 don't like the buses because it symbolizes/reflects the low-income apartments there.

[RedScare]

I understand completely. I grew up in Cypresswood. While the Northern subdivisions are fine, and most of 1960 homes are still ok, south of 1960 went downhill a lot...and with it, a lot of 1960 businesses. I know, I lived there until 1987 and watched it.

[SpringTX]

I understand completely.  I grew up in Cypresswood.  While the Northern subdivisions are fine, and most of 1960 homes are still ok, south of 1960 went downhill a lot...and with it, a lot of 1960 businesses.  I know, I lived there until 1987 and watched it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although the homes in Cypresswood are getting older, they seem to be holding their value these days. The schools (Klein Collins, Strack, etc.) are doing fine. Some of the apartment complexes on Kuykendahl are changing from high-end to low-end, and the demographic profile of the schools is starting to change slightly. But I don't think it's anywhere near a tipping point yet, because people still talk about Klein Collins as being better than Klein Oak. The younger families moving in seem to be more middle-income rather than upper-middle income, but there are plenty of upper-middle income residents nearby in places like Candlelight Hills, The Thicket, and Terranova West that help preserve the overall value in the area. And the new upscale Lakes of Cypress Forest is opening up just down the road. There are occasional attempts to build new low-income apartment complexes in the area, but the residents have successfully blocked them all, fortunately.

If the neighborhoods along Cypresswood start to go the way that the neighborhoods along 1960 went, it will be a big mess for that whole area. But, so far, fortunately, they're hanging in there. Some feel that Kuykendahl between 1960 and Louetta is going downhill quickly, but that alone wouldn't sink the area. The trouble would need to spread much further. And, so far, it hasn't. So Cypresswood is doing fine these days, even if trouble is lurking right on its doorstep to the south.

[pineda]

because people still talk about Klein Collins as being better than Klein Oak

Yes, I could see why people would say that a 2 year old high school (that costs about $100 million dollars to build and looks more like a college campus than a suburban high school) is seen as perhaps more attractive than a 25 year old school, but better? I don't know about that.... as you can tell, I'm more than a little partial towards Oak!

[SpringTX]

Yes, I could see why people would say that a 2 year old high school (that costs about $100 million dollars to build and looks more like a college campus than a suburban high school) is seen as perhaps more attractive than a 25 year old school, but better? I don't know about that.... as you can tell, I'm more than a little partial towards Oak! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what (little) I've heard, Oak doesn't have the rep that Collins has. Looking at 2004 test scores, Collins is only slightly higher, probably not statistically significant. Demographically they're almost equal, too. But Oak seems to have a reputation for drug use. Is there any merit to this rumor?

[HtownKid]

What is with neighborhoods in Houston particularly former suburban ones going downhill is it part of the no zoning thing or what? ( I thought ur values were suppose to go up) I just dont quite understand it.

[RedScare]

Klein Oak is the second NEWEST school in KISD. It is no more than 20 years old, not old by school standards. Certainly, Collins dwarfs all of the Klein schools.

Cypresswood, Candlelight Hills and Terranova were all good, solid middle class neighborhoods when they were built. They still are. Remember, back in the 70s and early 80s, when these were built, there was virtually no upper middle class, and loans were much harder to come by. With today's expanding upper middle class, and mortgages available to anyone who asks, homes have exploded in size, making the 1800 to 2400 sf homes in these subdivisions look quaint in comparison.

They are also 20 to 30 years old now, not bad, but with Houston's record construction, home prices are kept down.

There is nothing wrong with this area. Those that say it is going down haven't been there, or they have such a distorted view of what constitutes a stable neighborhood that their opinions are skewed. In the back of Cypresswood, they are building $200k homes and more.

As for the zoning, since when did counties get zoning powers?

[pineda]

But Oak seems to have a reputation for drug use. Is there any merit to this rumor?

When my kids were in elementary school at Northampton, I didn't really have this on my radar. Now that they are at Klein Oak and I communicate with other parents of high schoolers at all different high schools, I have come to the conclusion that there is drug use at any high school, anywhere, even private schools. If you are the type to seek out illicit drugs, you can find them anywhere. Rich suburban schools in master-planned communities or dirt-poor rural schools in towns with one stop light. I personally don't think that the drug usage problems among students at Oak is any different from kids at Collins, Forest or Klein. I guess, like everything, what your perceptions of reality are depends upon your experiences, where you live, what you hear, etc. Where I live, we hear anecdotal stories about Collins, Forest and Klein, Spring High, Woodlands high schools , but you have to temper what you hear with a grain of salt, and consider the source. In defense of Klein Oak, though, I have to add that we are the home base for the IB program in the Klein district which we are very proud of. The first year we had almost 40 students enrolled; this year we will have close to 100 students.

[SpringTX]

I agree with you overall: Cypresswood was, and still is, a good middle-class neighborhood, both the original generation of residents and the new generation. So I won't "split hairs" any more than to say that, as you pointed out , the newer homes "making the 1800 to 2400 sf homes in these subdivisions look quaint in comparison" is what is having a slight effect on keeping these home prices from growing much. According to HAR, the median price per square foot of homes sold in Cypresswood has stayed flat for the past 4 years: in 2001, it was $58 per sq ft, and in 2004, it was still $58 per sq ft. As any economist would say, this means that, in real terms, the value of those homes is declining, if only slightly. I wouldn't say that it's a noticeable decline, at least not yet. As for the future, I think it could go either way. A mile to the east on Cypresswood Drive, the Lakes of Cypress Forest is opening up with homes starting from the 270's and 300's. But a mile to the south on Kuykendahl, some apartment complexes have turned from middle-class to low-income, and some of the retail on Kuykendahl is starting to reflect that.