What Comes After METRORail?

[crunchtastic]

After light rail? I'm still waiting for an actual train to run on the tracks down Harrisburg.

But to answer: we have a train that runs to the island. Elsewhere in the metro, a combo of Park and Ride and proper BRT through the connecting suburbs into the commerce centers and connecting to the light rail. Why is this so hard?

[MetroMogul]

Any farthings for us local bus riders? The core system has been deteriorating for years and it needs to be revamped and expanded. As much flack as critics give this administration, for whatever reason, at least they are not doing the wholesale cutting of bus service as the previous two Jersey administrations. Now, they just need to hurry up and build these rail lines so they can continue to reverse the years of neglect the previous decade of rail-centric thinking heaped upon the bus system.

[ig2ba]

I think that the center of Houston is actually around the Memorial City/CityCentre area.

No, that's just what the developer, the Midway Cos., announced in a press release. They were completely, horribly full of crap. The last time I computed it, the centroid of population was at approximately 610 and the Katy Freeway. I'll bet that it's all the way to North Post Oak Ln. by now.

Actually the center of population for the City of Houston according to the 2010 Census is approximately here:

29.750825°, -95.419170°, right on the east side of River Oaks. It surprised me, since I thought it would be further west.

The center of population for Harris County in 2010 was:

29.807477°, -95.417517°, on W 24th west of Durham in the Heights.

As for the center of Greater Houston (10-county area), I don't know, but it can be calculated from the U.S. Census data too if anyone has a lot of spare time.

Of course there are slight approximations, but since COH census tracts are usually very small, the numbers should be accurate to within 500-1000 ft.

[Trae]

Even though Atlanta's transit system is very underfunded, they still manage to have double our transit ridership, and a higher percentage of their commuters use public transit.

Well, it's easier to have higher ridership with heavy rail, with its higher speeds and capacities. Plus, Atlanta got its heavy rail built at the perfect time (when the Feds were handing money out for those systems). What kills Atlanta is its horrible secondary streets, which will probably never be fixed. A whole bunch of country roads, with a few modern looking ones, that go any which why. Contrast to Houston, where it's a giant grid with wider streets.

[ig2ba]

I'm learning not to be concerned with citykid's ramblings, but anyway, Niche was effectively proposing "congestion pricing," and I don't know how I'd call it a "Republican" idea, seeing as the major implementation is London, and coming soon to New York.

I would add to your list:

• San Francisco is pioneering variable pricing for street parking. The free market determines what parking rates should be and more sought-after spots are increased. San Francisco is by far the least conservative major city in the U.S.
  
• Variable pricing for toll express lanes developed in southern California. This area really hasn't been a conservative area in 20+ years.
  

It's fair to have people pay for the goods/services that they use (public roads or public streets). Stereotypically, leftists would call the above "gouging" or some other populist term. But these areas are going ahead with free market-oriented approaches anyway, regardless of what epithets are hurled at them.

To call someone a Republican or communist or whatever because they don't support your particular routing and particular train car built on a particular schedule is counterproductive and alienates the people you're trying to "convince".

[woolie]

This is the internet. No one convinces anyone. We're here for the simple pleasure of partisan bickering.

[ig2ba]

This is the internet. No one convinces anyone. We're here for the simple pleasure of partisan bickering.

I don't expect anyone to place nice on the internet. I lurk here for the bickering too, just not partisan bickering.

[Trae]

I would add to your list:

• San Francisco is pioneering variable pricing for street parking. The free market determines what parking rates should be and more sought-after spots are increased. San Francisco is by far the least conservative major city in the U.S.
  
• Variable pricing for toll express lanes developed in southern California. This area really hasn't been a conservative area in 20+ years.
  

It's fair to have people pay for the goods/services that they use (public roads or public streets). Stereotypically, leftists would call the above "gouging" or some other populist term. But these areas are going ahead with free market-oriented approaches anyway, regardless of what epithets are hurled at them.

To call someone a Republican or communist or whatever because they don't support your particular routing and particular train car built on a particular schedule is counterproductive and alienates the people you're trying to "convince".

We are spoiled in the sunbelt. Chicago and cities in the northeast all have tolls. Even Orlando only has one actual freeway, for good reason. I can see it happening in Houston. Every new freeway built in Texas has tolls anyway.

[ig2ba]

We are spoiled in the sunbelt. Chicago and cities in the northeast all have tolls. Even Orlando only has one actual freeway, for good reason. I can see it happening in Houston. Every new freeway built in Texas has tolls anyway.

Yes, I think the probability of that happening is much higher than is the Texas leg increasing state gasoline taxes to cover the funding shortfall.

[LTAWACS]

We are spoiled in the sunbelt. Chicago and cities in the northeast all have tolls. Even Orlando only has one actual freeway, for good reason. I can see it happening in Houston. Every new freeway built in Texas has tolls anyway.

Why anyone would live up there is beyond me. Too cold.

[IronTiger]

Well, in terms of "after light rail", you could always do bus routes or heavy rail. Or do the (sigh) "Dallas" method and have the light rail function more like commuter rail in the suburbs.

[woolie]

Or do the (sigh) "Dallas" method and have the light rail function more like commuter rail in the suburbs.

Well, unlike Dallas and Atlanta, our LRT is very urban-oriented, and is developing nicely. If the University and Uptown lines ever get built, it'll be in a very good position for real density increases in Houston.

So, commuter rail that connects directly to LRT routes won't be a problem at all; it'll be a ridership feeder.

[samagon]

what comes after light rail?

more light rail!

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

the center of population for Houston is at I-10 west and 610 in that shopping center. It may have shifted slightly NW in the passed three years...

[citykid09]

Interesting video from the former Mayor of Houston Kathy Whitmire on why Houston has built the wrong rail system and Honolulu has built the better rail system.

[woolie]

Please don't double post videos. You'll fork discussions. I put my reply in the other thread.

Also, don't post 2 year old videos and give people the impression they're new.

[Reaper88]

It would be nice if Houston have subway system, it wouldn't interfere the traffic.

[mfastx]

Someday (perhaps half a century to a century from now) I envision the Red Line being converted to heavy rail.  Or at least some high capacity technology (who knows what will exist then).  Completely grade seperated so it's much faster.

 

Eventually both airports, Uptown, TMC, and Greenway should be connected by heavy rail (or it's equivilant a century from now).  Lower capacity lines, like light rail (again, or it's equivilant) will branch out from those.  Then you have BRT, and finally local bus. 

 

Hopefully by that time we all have flying personal vehicles and none of this will be an issue.  One can dream, lol. 

[Trae]

The sad thing is, that's how it should be now. that 1983 ambitious heavy rail plan should be built, then you could have had light rail down a few streets like Westheimer, or Scott, OST, etc. Commuter raip line to Galveston and the Woodlands, with buses spread throughout and you have a complete mass transit system. Houston has high potential ridership. They just need to actual build it to connect the main business centers plus at least one airport.