What Comes After METRORail?

[citykid09]

What will come after METRO Light Rail is finished with construction? The light rail was meant to be a way for people to get around the city once they got to the city, but it will need heavy or medium capacity rail lines to feed into the light rail. If METRO had have built its light rail as DART built theirs, then this would not be as nessesary,because it would already be a commuter like system (METRO built its rail for the most part as street cars).

With the Houston Metro Area doubling in size over the next few decades, METRO Light Rail can not be the be all and end all.

If METRO feels that the city is not ready for a full on heavy rail, they could look into a medium capacity rail system that could upgrade to a Heavy rail sytem in the future when the population increase more.

Here is a link to more info on medium capacity rail:

http://en.wikipedia....ransport_system

Here is a video of the medium capacity system in Torino:

[TheNiche]

That's what Park & Ride on managed lanes and Quick Line buses service is for. And if there gets to be a shortage of capacity on the managed lanes, METRO can just raise the toll or increase the carpooling restrictions.

[citykid09]

That's what Park & Ride on managed lanes and Quick Line buses service is for. And if there gets to be a shortage of capacity on the managed lanes, METRO can just raise the toll or increase the carpooling restrictions.

Such a Republican answer niche. LOL!

[LTAWACS]

I'm certain the OP's post was an after thought - if at all - for the goons who currently run METRO. What they should have done was to elevate the entire thing... What effect will the increase in population have on ridership or accidents related to the at-grade rail?

[citykid09]

Here is something to read: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/967454-light-rail-vs-heavy-rail.html

Light Rail Vs Heavy Rail

[TheNiche]

Such a Republican answer niche. LOL!

It's my honest and objective answer, so whatever sort of political adjective you tack onto it cannot possibly be correct.

And just what is Repbulicanism, anyway? Serious question. You seem to think that you know the answer. I sure don't.

[Highway6]

What will come after METRO Light Rail is finished with construction? The light rail was meant to be a way for people to get around the city once they got to the city, but it will need heavy or medium capacity rail lines to feed into the light rail. If METRO had have built its light rail as DART built theirs, then this would not be as nessesary,because it would already be a commuter like system (METRO built its rail for the most part as street cars).

I would say Haif is like Ground Hog Day.. but at least Bill Murray grew as a person, so instead I'll just quote Yogi Berra -

"It's déjà vu all over again"

[citykid09]

It's my honest and objective answer, so whatever sort of political adjective you tack onto it cannot possibly be correct.

And just what is Repbulicanism, anyway? Serious question. You seem to think that you know the answer. I sure don't.

It was a joke, but if you must have an explanation: I said Republican because of your lackluster solution. I see a more progress future for the city once all of the old people that have been holding the city back (Tom Delay) go away. If you want to be world class you have to think big! Managed lanes and Quick Line buses are not the only components world class cities have. You might look at METRO Light Rail as a world class system, but its not. Its just a starter!

[ricco67]

It was a joke, but if you must have an explanation: I said Republican because of your lackluster solution. I see a more progress future for the city once all of the old people that have been holding the city back (Tom Delay) go away. If you want to be world class you have to think big! Managed lanes and Quick Line buses are not the only components world class cities have. You might look at METRO Light Rail as a world class system, but its not. Its just a starter!

Mentioning Atlanta in 3....2....1...

[TheNiche]

It was a joke, but if you must have an explanation: I said Republican because of your lackluster solution. I see a more progress future for the city once all of the old people that have been holding the city back (Tom Delay) go away. If you want to be world class you have to think big! Managed lanes and Quick Line buses are not the only components world class cities have. You might look at METRO Light Rail as a world class system, but its not. Its just a starter!

Tom Delay has gone away. And the notion of a "world class city" is as fictitious as is the concept that there is any meaningful difference between mainstream political parties. There's no such thing, only hot air.

[citykid09]

Tom Delay has gone away. And the notion of a "world class city" is as fictitious as is the concept that there is any meaningful difference between mainstream political parties. There's no such thing, only hot air.

Actually there is a such thing as a World Class City. Let me list a few in North America. New York, Chicago, Toronto, Mexico City, Los Angeles, San Fransisco, and Vancouver. Some of the cities that I have listed have samller populations than Houston, but are still World Class Cities when Houston is not. Why? What do these cities have that Houston doesn't?

[RedScare]

What do these cities have that Houston doesn't?

A dinosaur theme park?

[TheNiche]

Actually there is a such thing as a World Class City. Let me list a few in North America. New York, Chicago, Toronto, Mexico City, Los Angeles, San Fransisco, and Vancouver. Some of the cities that I have listed have samller populations than Houston, but are still World Class Cities when Houston is not. Why? What do these cities have that Houston doesn't?

No city can be world-class. The only thing that can be world class is the world itself, or perhaps a planet orbiting a distant star that happens to be Earth-like in size and chemistry.

Some of the cities that I have listed have samller populations than Houston, but are still World Class Cities when Houston is not. Why? What do these cities have that Houston doesn't?

You didn't list Houston because you chose not to. Simple as that. I can only guess at why, but I think it might have to do with their aggregate concentration of wealth; that's probably why you left Atlanta off the list even though it has heavy transit, the world's largest airport, an agglomeration of high culture in the black community, and a media industry agglomeration.

But I mostly just think that it must have to do with wealth because New Orleans and San Antonio are clearly superior to Los Angeles, and so are Galveston and Brenham. Places like these offer a superior quality of life and are so affordable that, who would even want to ride public transit in the first place? But none of these are world class. Brenham is only Brenham-class, Houston is only Houston-class, etc.

[MetroMogul]

What's after light rail? Perhaps that 50% increase in bus service they promised to sell the whole package in 2003.

[woolie]

I'm learning not to be concerned with citykid's ramblings, but anyway, Niche was effectively proposing "congestion pricing," and I don't know how I'd call it a "Republican" idea, seeing as the major implementation is London, and coming soon to New York.

And Off-Topic, which Niche is cynical about differences between political parties, I have to strongly disagree. I have intense opinions about various issues (women, gay rights, abortion, free speech, separation of church and state, torture, pre-emptive war, etc...) that make the opposing party's platform so toxic to me that I would cut off my hand before I let it scroll the e-Slate wheel to that position. Sure, on many fiscal issues both parties primarily serve big business with only rhetorical differences, there is so much that policy touches beyond that.

[woolie]

Anyway, Niche did mention Galveston, so I'll transition to being back on topic.

Galveston is fantastic. I visit frequently, and just walk for hours. It is a beautiful 19th century town, and a working model of true pedestrian scale development in a climate like ours.

I wish it was more economically integrated into Houston. Allow me to propose high speed intercity rail. The irony being of course that my grandparents had this in the 1920s, for a quick and pleasant trip from downtown Houston to the Strand.

[TheNiche]

Opinions are one thing. Actions are another. Democrats had the presidency and both houses of congress for two whole years, and what do they have to show for it? Compromised health legislation based on the individual mandate, which subsidizes Nebraska, first implemented by Republicans? And more locally, they funded the re-paving of I-10 between I-45 and US 59. It was fairly pathetic. What was with that!?

I think that both parties, in cahoots with the fourth estate, fan the flames of bombastic rhetoric and scare and/or emote people and corporations into giving career politicians, lobbyists, et al., money to squander. Don't forget, McCain-Feingold was bipartisan. Government is an industry. Like most industries, it self-regulates to ensure a profit.

[woolie]

The simple answer is that the filibuster crippled any mandate a party might have. Even if your party has 60 senate seats, it gives a total veto power to every single one of those 60 senators, who can water down or extract promises for whatever petty and selfish purpose they desire. That is the sign of a fundamentally broken institution. But that's a different thread. /OT.

[TheNiche]

You just demonstrated my point. Having a party affiliation has nothing to do with principle, even given a supermajority. Individual Democrats see opportunities, they take them. It is very selfish, which seems to go against the party mantra. I don't think that they care. OTOH, I can't say that its to their credit, but Republicans seem to be better team players, better collectivists. All I can say about that is that I've had to deal with dozens of Republican appointees in government to make a living in recent years, and they're as 'big government' as they come without even realizing it. Its this bizarre combination of personal infallibility and group think that occurs within bureaucratic systems.

[mfastx]

Mentioning Atlanta in 3....2....1...

Even though Atlanta's transit system is very underfunded, they still manage to have double our transit ridership, and a higher percentage of their commuters use public transit.

[woolie]

I think Atlanta will be crippled by the much more decentralized and sprawling nature of the city. For a sun-belt city that boomed in the 60s, Houston is actually remarkably well centered on downtown and almost all major amenities are inside the loop or adjacent. The wheel-spoke freeway system reflects this, and it's a very good start for increasing density and building out rail transit.

[citykid09]

I think Atlanta will be crippled by the much more decentralized and sprawling nature of the city. For a sun-belt city that boomed in the 60s, Houston is actually remarkably well centered on downtown and almost all major amenities are inside the loop or adjacent. The wheel-spoke freeway system reflects this, and it's a very good start for increasing density and building out rail transit.

I think that the center of Houston is actually around the Memorial City/CityCentre area.

[JJxvi]

I think that the center of Houston is actually around the Memorial City/CityCentre area.

The center of population, I think, is roughly centered on the Heights area.

[kbates2]

I think that the center of Houston is actually around the Memorial City/CityCentre area.

I think that is a reference to your own perspective. Do you live/did you grow up close to this area? Katy?

[citykid09]

I think that is a reference to your own perspective. Do you live/did you grow up close to this area? Katy?

No, its something I read. I believe in a Chronicle article about CityCentre. It said something about that area being the actual geographic center of the Houston Metro Area.

[LTAWACS]

No city can be world-class. The only thing that can be world class is the world itself, or perhaps a planet orbiting a distant star that happens to be Earth-like in size and chemistry.

Hrm... what about Corusant or Trantor?

[LTAWACS]

The center of population, I think, is roughly centered on the Heights area.

Correct. The center of population is right around there.

The geographic center of Houston is... I'm not sure. But I would bet it's a little north and west of downtown.

[LTAWACS]

No, its something I read. I believe in a Chronicle article about CityCentre. It said something about that area being the actual geographic center of the Houston Metro Area.

They did make the claim that they are in the "center of Houston" but Im not sure to what center they were referring to. I believe the claim originated from one of the marketing agencies associated with the project. As such, it should be taken lightly and/or as marketing fluff. In other words - BS.

[TheNiche]

I think that the center of Houston is actually around the Memorial City/CityCentre area.

No, that's just what the developer, the Midway Cos., announced in a press release. They were completely, horribly full of crap. The last time I computed it, the centroid of population was at approximately 610 and the Katy Freeway. I'll bet that it's all the way to North Post Oak Ln. by now.

[woolie]

Memorial CityCenter is lick and stick urbanism, an imitation product like EIFS stucco. I'm going to shout for a second, so brace yourselves. Pedestrian scale urbanism takes more than a couple mall parking lots turned into a papier-mâché streetscape. It takes real density and a street grid. It also takes fractured land ownership and competition. That is why I think these developments feel so plastic and forced. FAKE, FAKE, FAKE. I've been more than a bit anti-suburban on this forum lately, and a recent visit to Memorial CityCenter is the reason. I walked the development for a while, then came home and confirmed my observations with Google Earth.

Also, the population centroid tells us alot about favored bedroom communities, but the East side of Houston is rarely mentioned on this forum. Drive down 225 or I10, all the way to 146. Pasadena, Deer Park, La Porte, Baytown, Galena Park. Out in Katy, I guess you can live unaware that Houston is in fact a town of heavy industry. The land along the ship channel is critically important to the city's economy. So, yes, I consider the center of Houston to be roughly downtown.