Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[TheNiche]

Yeah. Every time I am up in The Woodlands, all I hear about is how much they hate Walmart, want a more walkable/less car centric neighborhood and want to preserve historic bungalows and shop at small independent businesses. CongraTulations. You really nailed it this time.

The cultural differences are only skin-deep, not that much greater than the difference between buying a silver car or buying a beige car.

You could fit at least ten Trader Joes into the Heights Walmart.

Yeah, but how many Trader Joes would get built on eleven acres? With or without a Wal-Mart, there will be something, and there will be traffic. The only differences as far as neighborhood impact or desirability are qualitative (i.e. Are the shoppers predominantly white or brown? Are the shoppers predominantly rich or poor? That kind of thing. And I for one, don't care.)

[J008]

The cultural differences are only skin-deep, not that much greater than the difference between buying a silver car or buying a beige car.

Yeah, but how many Trader Joes would get built on eleven acres? With or without a Wal-Mart, there will be something, and there will be traffic. The only differences as far as neighborhood impact or desirability are qualitative (i.e. Are the shoppers predominantly white or brown? Are the shoppers predominantly rich or poor? That kind of thing. And I for one, don't care.)

Man, You really got a hate on for the heights.

While many of your comparisons are correct, anyone who has spent time in both locations wouldn't remotely equate the two.

[TheNiche]

The neighborhood is just fine, physically speaking. So is The Woodlands.

What I hate are highly-insulated subcultures of similarly-obnoxious people, especially when as generational breeding cycles kick in. By my observation, affluent obnoxious people have a greater wherewithall to actualize and then mass-communicate their smug preferences, and so the criticisms that I am leveling at the Heights and The Woodlands are several orders of magnitude greater than what I might level at, say, Pasadena or even Spring. It is also notable that my 'hate-on' diminishes with distance. So right now, at this moment, I do not care about Austin or College Station, even if they are highly deserving of criticism. It is also notable that I have a respect for differently-obnoxious people, such as seem to gravitate toward the East End and Third Ward.

[RedScare]

Man, You really got a hate on for the heights.

While many of your comparisons are correct, anyone who has spent time in both locations wouldn't remotely equate the two.

As one who lives in one neighborhood and offices in the other, I can see exactly where Niche is coming from. And, while the two areas may seem to be polar opposites, the inhabitants share similar traits. They are the same, but different. By that, I mean that both groups express a haughty superiority while being largely ignorant of the subject matter they are speaking about. For instance, Woodlanders claim to be classy and conservative, but tend to be nouveau riche at best. Heitghts residents may claim a green and socially conscious intelligence, and a knowledge of architecture or preservation, but their attempts to put it into practice achieve the opposite results. And, neither group can be instructed, as both think everyone else is an idiot. In that sense, they are identical...upper middle class incomes with decidedly middling intellects, and refusing to actually research what they claim to be an expert about.

There are examples of this throughout this forum, and indeed, within this threa

[Porchman]

Tsk, Redscare. Those Woodland folk are all about their slab, stucco, brick, Mall, Hummers, and Suburbans. They just don't get our pier-beam, clapboard, Hardiplank, shops on 19th, Priuses, and Subarus. Also, we live near Downtown. And we live at least 10 blocks from poor people. What's wrong with those...people?

Edit: Oh, by "those people" I didn't mean poor people. I meant those Woodlander suburbanites. [Hiss of a feral cat].

Edited January 12, 2012 by Porchman

[RedScare]

Considering the number of Woodlands residents who have moved to the Heights, I dare say they do. That's the problem.

[TheNiche]

Edit: Oh, by "those people" I didn't mean poor people. I meant those Woodlander suburbanites. [Hiss of a feral cat].

Surely you didn't. Socially-concious as y'all are, no Heights resident would put that kind of sentiment out there so flagrantly. Its simply not plausible because you know that a Woodlander could've picked up on the possibility that they might be able to smear you by quoting your statement out of context, knowing all the while that it wasn't your intention.

Angry white people, regardless of physical configuration or political affiliation, are cannibalistic birds of a feather. They flock together, then pick each other apart, viciously.

[Porchman]

Considering the number of Woodlands residents who have moved to the Heights, I dare say they do. That's the problem.

Ugh! DATA! Do you have actual data on people trading their Tuscan manses for Mctorian manses? We also expect data in the Heights. We're rife with attorneys, ya know.

[Porchman]

Angry white people, regardless of physical configuration or political affiliation, are cannibalistic birds of a feather. They flock together, then pick each other apart, viciously.

Ah, You're wise. You have shopped at the 11th Street Kroger!

[RedScare]

Ahh. It warms my heart to see my invention, AWP, so elegantly woven into the fabric of TheNiche's prose.

[RedScare]

Ugh! DATA! Do you have actual data on people trading their Tuscan manses for Mctorian manses? We also expect data in the Heights. We're rife with attorneys, ya know.

Well, the couple across the street from me are Woodlands expats. Since anecdotes are the statistics of choice for the upper middle class ignorants, it shall be good enough for me.

[mcook2002]

Some of you dudes must be an absolute BLAST IRL.

[J008]

I thought it was just AWP who don't want wal mart.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/01/indias-retail-reform

[TheNiche]

I thought it was just AWP who don't want wal mart.

http://www.economist...s-retail-reform

AWP are like Baskin Robbin's 31 Flavors. It takes all kinds.

[ricco67]

Surely you didn't. Socially-concious as y'all are, no Heights resident would put that kind of sentiment out there so flagrantly. Its simply not plausible because you know that a Woodlander could've picked up on the possibility that they might be able to smear you by quoting your statement out of context, knowing all the while that it wasn't your intention.

Angry white people, regardless of physical configuration or political affiliation, are cannibalistic birds of a feather. They flock together, then pick each other apart, viciously.

Why is it that everytime I see "Woodlander" it comes out in my head in a german accent?

[callisthenes]

Still waiting for some substantiation of that 45,000 sq ft super trader joes in California. I am sure you will be able to verify that since you are so quick to require anyone opposing you to verify every factual statement they make.

Their business model has changed.

<But Flickinger, who has followed the chain for decades, said the company is seeking to expand the size of its shops by building new stores and also renting bigger retail spaces in new markets. A 13,000-square-foot Trader Joe's opened in Hollywood last year. Some stores, such as a location in Silver Lake and another in Eagle Rock, have already expanded.

The average Trader Joe's store probably will increase from between 10,000 square feet and 15,000 square feet now to 15,000 square feet and bigger, Flickinger predicts. "Trader Joe's can make double or triple the sales volume per week at a bigger store than at a small store, while checkmating competitors," he said.>

http://articles.lati...r-joes-20111027

[samagon]

Still waiting for some substantiation of that 45,000 sq ft super trader joes in California. I am sure you will be able to verify that since you are so quick to require anyone opposing you to verify every factual statement they make.

Next time I'm there I'll take some pictures. Until then believe it or not, I really don't care if you take my word or not?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[lockmat]

I have not been keeping up with this thread because of all the food tossing, so I didn't realize that this actually broke ground and is opening in the fall.

Did the Stop The Heights Walmart people have an impact at all? I can see from their website that even though they lost the war, they are trying to make the construction stage hell for them.

[JJxvi]

They had a positive impact on my level of entertainment.

[s3mh]

Given the power developers/engineers/contractors and Walmart weild in city hall politics and how spooked the city was after getting sued by the Ashby developers, stop heights walmart was doomed from the start. But if the only time people stood up and fought for what they believed is right was when they had a good chance of winning, there would not be much good in the world today.

Without the anti-walmart movement, untold numbers of semis and dump trucks would be driving across the Yale St. bridge, which has been found to be unsound for any commercial truck traffic. The city originally told people that the bridge was appropriate for Walmart's semi-trailers. The stop heights walmart people brought it to everyone's attention (including HISD) that the bridge was not rated for large commerical vehicles and school buses. Efforts have been made to procure funding to upgrade the bridge.

The issue of 380 agreements as being giveaways has been put into play by the stop heights walmart people. The Kroger 380 agreement got push back from Clutterbuck and others on the grounds that it looked like corporate welfare. That is a big step because 380 agreements are always a favorite of city council because they effectively allow council to spend money today that future councils will have to cover when the city does not receive the new and existing tax revenue promised to the developer in the 380. Basically, a municipal credit card.

Some awareness was raised about the small businesses in the Heights and West End. Wabash, C&D, and others have put on a brave face. But without a concerted effort to make sure that the community supports these small businesses, some will be lost after Walmart moves in.

Anything to throw sand in the gears of a company whose founder's hiers build a 1.2 billion art gallery in the middle of nowhere while the company slashes health care benefits to the lowest paid employees at the same time they announce the first upturn in same store sales in the US after eight quarters of declines is worth something.

But time will only tell whether this whole opposition movement was worth it. If people in the Heights/West End and other neighborhoods in Houston feel that the lesson from this is that you cannot fight city hall and their developer friends, then this all may not have been worth it. But if people feel that they now have a voice and continue to organize to push for better development in Houston, support local businesses and fight for quality of life issues in the City's residential neighborhoods, then a battle was lost, but a war might be won.

[RedScare]

While s3mh wishes to make it sound as if Walmart steamrolled our poor mayor, nothing could be further from the truth. Fact is, Parker wanted this development and proposed the 380. Just as Parker crushed the majority opposition to her pet historic district project, she crushed the minority opposition to Walmart. The Walmart opponents have stopped nothing, changed nothing. Kind of shame, really. Parker actually asked them what changes they'd like. Those morons only said, 'no Walmart'. They went all in and lost.

[TheNiche]

'Stop Heights Wal-Mart' was doomed because the Heights ain't Boulevard Oaks; and I might add that the City was far from spooked by any lawsuit. They knew that they'd get sued by Buckhead and didn't care; and the RUDH lawsuit was and is frivilous. And although there was a little bit of pushback on the Kroger 380, other horrendous 380 Agreements continue to pass under the radar. As for the Yale bridge...thankfully there's an alternate route a couple hundred feet away. No small businesses have failed, nor will they. And nothing has been changed about Wal-Mart's business model.

Time is not necessary to see whether the opposition movement failed. I declare that it failed. I dance on its grave. The most memorable moment, for me at least, was exposing their leadership as a group of hypocrites acting beyond the scope of their non-profit's mission statement...followed by them trying to interpret the discovery as a threat so that it would be censored from public view. The legacy of NIMBYism is that people should have learned to doubt NIMBYs.

'Stop Heights Wal-Mart FAIL'

[samagon]

Anything to throw sand in the gears of a company whose founder's hiers build a 1.2 billion art gallery in the middle of nowhere while the company slashes health care benefits to the lowest paid employees at the same time they announce the first upturn in same store sales in the US after eight quarters of declines is worth something.

I don't know you, but I bet you use an electronic device that was made in China by people who are underpaid, and work in a harsh (in some cases deadly) environment all so you can have a little more convenience in your life.

I have little respect for someone who claims to be a herald for the working man when they support the same, or in this case, worse conditions, all because it is in a land far away. But by all means, don't let me stop you from making a point.

It's kind of like that lady who was going to go picket at Steve Jobs' funeral because iPhones were unholy, and she posted the tweet from her iPhone...

[heights_yankee]

Those morons only said, 'no Walmart'. They went all in and lost.

This isn't actually true. There was a large packet of materials with everythign from architectural renderings to landscaping recs made by professionals on how the building could be safer, more livable, greener. These plans were drawn up by professionals in these industries and people from organizations like Houston Tomorrow. Some of these folks even went through the trouble of demonstrating how better eco-friendly landscaping, for example, could save WM/Ainbinder money. RUDH folks asked that some of these be implemented via the 380. I believe that they actually put them in order of importance, as if to say "if you only do 3, we prefer these 1st 3." The City did not request any of these things of the developer. Parker sold the 380 to Council as a way to have more "control" over the development but in the end asked them for pretty much nothing.

[TheNiche]

This isn't actually true. There was a large packet of materials with everythign from architectural renderings to landscaping recs made by professionals on how the building could be safer, more livable, greener. These plans were drawn up by professionals in these industries and people from organizations like Houston Tomorrow. Some of these folks even went through the trouble of demonstrating how better eco-friendly landscaping, for example, could save WM/Ainbinder money.

I don't recall those. Can you post a link to them?

[heights_yankee]

I don't recall those. Can you post a link to them?

Actually, I went to the site and it's not up there. It was assembled after the 1st couple meetings at the rehab place. At that time, they also solicited ideas and opinions from the public and, as absurd or unrealistic as some were, even included those.

[RedScare]

This isn't actually true. There was a large packet of materials with everythign from architectural renderings to landscaping recs made by professionals on how the building could be safer, more livable, greener. These plans were drawn up by professionals in these industries and people from organizations like Houston Tomorrow. Some of these folks even went through the trouble of demonstrating how better eco-friendly landscaping, for example, could save WM/Ainbinder money. RUDH folks asked that some of these be implemented via the 380. I believe that they actually put them in order of importance, as if to say "if you only do 3, we prefer these 1st 3." The City did not request any of these things of the developer. Parker sold the 380 to Council as a way to have more "control" over the development but in the end asked them for pretty much nothing.

The suggestions of "what we'd like better" came later in the process. When the complaints began and RUDH formed, the City had a few community meetings regarding the site. Later, Mayor Parker literally walked the neighborhood behind the site talking to residents. She was quoted in news accounts as asking for suggestions to make the Walmart palatable. She made it clear that the City had no legal way to stop Walmart from building there. She lamented that the only response from residents and RUDH was, "No Walmart!"

Later, these mixed use renderings were published. Just as before, they ignored the fact that the City could not keep Walmart out. The renderings were simply drawings of stuff they would rather see. They were in no way a solution to the problem. I should also point out that even your description of the materials makes it clear that the suggestions were of projects to REPLACE Walmart, not improve it. In this way, RUDH pissed away a very real opportunity to influence the design of the site. Instead, we will get whatever Walmart feels like building.

When a group spurns a chance to make something better in favor of an illegal solution (denying Walmart's right to build), they have done a disservice to those they claim to be helping.

[heights_yankee]

The suggestions of "what we'd like better" came later in the process. When the complaints began and RUDH formed, the City had a few community meetings regarding the site. Later, Mayor Parker literally walked the neighborhood behind the site talking to residents. She was quoted in news accounts as asking for suggestions to make the Walmart palatable. She made it clear that the City had no legal way to stop Walmart from building there. She lamented that the only response from residents and RUDH was, "No Walmart!"

Later, these mixed use renderings were published. Just as before, they ignored the fact that the City could not keep Walmart out. The renderings were simply drawings of stuff they would rather see. They were in no way a solution to the problem. I should also point out that even your description of the materials makes it clear that the suggestions were of projects to REPLACE Walmart, not improve it. In this way, RUDH pissed away a very real opportunity to influence the design of the site. Instead, we will get whatever Walmart feels like building.

When a group spurns a chance to make something better in favor of an illegal solution (denying Walmart's right to build), they have done a disservice to those they claim to be helping.

No. These suggestions came after RUDH (which was then still just STHWM) held their very 1st public meeting.

And a lot of the suggestions by professionals in urban planning were how WM could make the center better. RUDH's mission was to stop the Walmart but that was not the end-all for many of the contributors. They cited issues that are the very reasons most Walmarts are dangerous, like no exterior windows, and proposed that this WM could be more palatable if they went outside their normal building plan and did X,Y,Z.

[TheNiche]

No. These suggestions came after RUDH (which was then still just STHWM) held their very 1st public meeting.

And a lot of the suggestions by professionals in urban planning were how WM could make the center better. RUDH's mission was to stop the Walmart but that was not the end-all for many of the contributors. They cited issues that are the very reasons most Walmarts are dangerous, like no exterior windows, and proposed that this WM could be more palatable if they went outside their normal building plan and did X,Y,Z.

Wal-Mart is dangerous for lack of windows? Was that the best of their suggestions, or merely the most memorable after every sane person in the room started cracking up?

[RedScare]

"Professionals" in urban planning? More like "slept through the seminar" on urban planning. The argument for windows in retail store fronts applies to small stores, such as convenience stores, which are often staffed by only one employee. Having unobstructed windows at the street front allows visibility into the store by passing police or witnesses in case of robbery, and has the added benefit of causing some potential robbers to decide against it given the visibility.

This theory has no validity in the case of a large box store with dozens, or even hundreds of employees and customers, not to mention that the store is too large to see all of the interior from store front windows. In fact, if these "professionals" had done any study at all, they would realize that windows in big box retail stores can encourage 'smash and grab' burglaries, in which thieves smash a window, enter and grab numerous items and flee before police can respond to the burglar alarm. Additionally, Walmart employs an advanced video surveillance system and outside security to help deter criminal activity. Criminals who target Walmart in spite of video and human security will not even blink at windows.

Regardless, when Parker asked for suggestions, the united front from the protesters was 'No Walmart!', wasting any effort made by these so-called "professionals" to make the development more palatable. They deserve whatever Walmart builds there.