Subdude Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 The coming shortfall in America’s fourth-largest cityApr 29th 2010 | HOUSTON | From The Economist print edition...Sceptics had warned that Texas would be last into the recession but last out. It now seems that the state, and Houston, are in recovery along with the nation as a whole. Still, both city and state face rising unemployment, strained social services, and looming budget shortfalls. Texas’s unemployment rate is 8.2%, according to the Texas Workforce Commission, and has been idling there for some months. Houston scraped up an additional 14,800 jobs in March, although its unemployment rate held steady at 8.5%.Houston’s annual operating budget for fiscal 2010 was set at about $4 billion. That budget allowed for a very small increase in operating expenses. For the next fiscal year, which begins in July, the economic outlook has worsened. Sales-tax revenues are falling, as are projections for the property tax; and expenses are projected to rise, largely because of commitments to municipal pension funds and health benefits for the retired. The city controller, Ronald Green, forecasts a shortfall of slightly more than $100m for fiscal 2011. ... On this view, Houston is in for a couple of tough years as tax revenues catch up with the recovery. And residents are feeling the pinch. On April 21st Stephen Klineberg, a sociologist at Rice University, brought out the 2010 edition of his Houston Area Survey, an annual measure of the civic temperature. Over a third of respondents said the economy is their main concern. It used to be traffic.Mr Smith argues that the fundamentals of the local economy are strong. Residential property values have held steady, for the most part, and the Institute for Regional Forecasting predicts substantial population growth in the Houston area over the years to come. But John Diamond of Rice University takes a more negative view. He points out that the city has issued pension-obligation bonds that it will struggle to repay, as well as making promises about health benefits for the old that threaten to explode the rest of the budget. Ms Parker recently announced increases to premiums to pay for them, but Mr Diamond considers those merely symbolic. Link to full article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Parker said that police and fire, which make up 60% of the overall budget, were gonna see the biggest cuts of 1% each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 How do you cut HPD without losing officers on the streets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 How do you cut HPD without losing officers on the streets?I doubt the cuts will be with the beat cops. It'll probably more likely affect the administrative support staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 How do you cut HPD without losing officers on the streets?Currently a lot of overtime is being paid at time and a half, so the plan is to recruit more officers so we can cut back on overtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Correct, hire new officers at a lower wage than what is paid to senior officers making overtime. Not sure what they're gonna do about the fire department. The news said something about changing shifts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Currently a lot of overtime is being paid at time and a half, so the plan is to recruit more officers so we can cut back on overtime.well the more police the better. we used to be short 1000 officers or so. what is the current number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 well the more police the better. we used to be short 1000 officers or so. what is the current number?That depends entirely upon whether you believe that simple numbers like "X police officers per 1,000 residents" means anything at all when it comes to effective law enforcement. Houston is currently at about 2.5 officers per 1,000, a number that is virtually identical to the staffing levels of Dallas and Phoenis, 2 similar style cities. It is well under New York's 4 per 1,000, and nearly half of Chicago's almost 5 per 1,000. Ironically, Chicago's massive police force is unable to keep its resident from committing crimes at a higher rate than Houston, but New York has a lower crime rate than Houston. So, the number of cops appears to have little correlation to crime rate, though the police chiefs will always tell you that they need more. A combination of more cops and more efficient use of resources is best.By the way, HPD is having a study done by UCLA to answer the question, 'How many cops does HOUSTON need?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I touched on this in the HPD thread, but HPD has two divisions, traffic and patrol. Traffic are the guys that run the speed traps. Patrol are the ones chasing down the bad guys in dark alleyways. Why not just move some of the traffic guys over to patrol if more are needed - besides the obvious answer of loss of revenue from fewer traffic cops to write fewer tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 (edited) I touched on this in the HPD thread, but HPD has two divisions, traffic and patrol. Traffic are the guys that run the speed traps. Patrol are the ones chasing down the bad guys in dark alleyways. Why not just move some of the traffic guys over to patrol if more are needed - besides the obvious answer of loss of revenue from fewer traffic cops to write fewer tickets.Considering that more Houstonians die on our roads than are murdered by gangsters, I do not see why we should make the traffic division even smaller. Despite your fury at traffic cops, they make up a small percentage of the force compared to the mayhem they must supervise. It should also be noted that much of the traffic duty is financed by various grants that seek to cut down on DWIs, speeding and seat belt infractions, to name just a few. And, as you noted, traffic finances much of the rest of the department through ticket revenue. Eliminating that revenue, which is paid by traffic offenders, as opposed to law-abiding taxpayers, would trigger even more cuts to the department. Edited May 4, 2010 by RedScare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 And, as you noted, traffic finances much of the rest of the department through ticket revenue. Eliminating that revenue, which is paid by traffic offenders, as opposed to law-abiding taxpayers, would trigger even more cuts to the department.How much of the budget is generated from traffic violations, and what is the cost of the traffic division? Also, could the grants for DWI, seatbelt and speeding enforcement be transferred to other departments, or are they specifically tied to those goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if traffic patrol is increased and other departments decreased. Tickets/fines generate revenue and sadly both HPD and HFD are becoming more and more revenue generated as cut's in budgets keep coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 That depends entirely upon whether you believe that simple numbers like "X police officers per 1,000 residents" means anything at all when it comes to effective law enforcement. Houston is currently at about 2.5 officers per 1,000, a number that is virtually identical to the staffing levels of Dallas and Phoenis, 2 similar style cities. It is well under New York's 4 per 1,000, and nearly half of Chicago's almost 5 per 1,000. Ironically, Chicago's massive police force is unable to keep its resident from committing crimes at a higher rate than Houston, but New York has a lower crime rate than Houston. So, the number of cops appears to have little correlation to crime rate, though the police chiefs will always tell you that they need more. A combination of more cops and more efficient use of resources is best.By the way, HPD is having a study done by UCLA to answer the question, 'How many cops does HOUSTON need?'Interesting. Well... the more the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if traffic patrol is increased and other departments decreased. Tickets/fines generate revenue and sadly both HPD and HFD are becoming more and more revenue generated as cut's in budgets keep coming. Personally, I'd like to see the Traffic patrol INCREASED.You may think it's simply a money generator for the city, but I see it as an opportunity to help pull over some of these morons that are causing a hazard on the streets. As we have discussed before, you'd be surprised how may arrests (warrants, drugs, robberies) come from someone being pulled over.One that that has surprised me though is the record number of tickets that were written last month (109,000). According to the news, it surprised HPD as well.Another thing I'd like to know (Red?), are the percentage and types of arrests (warrants, etc) and the breakdown for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Grant money is applied for from state or federal programs. The money generally is used to fund a position or overtime to achieve certain objectives, such as increasing seatbelt use, deterring drunk driving lowering auto theft or combatting narcotic activity. The rules of the grant require strict record keeping that the money is used only for the purpose approved in the grant. It is a violation of the terms of the grant (and usually illegal as well) to divert grant funds to other uses.Municipal court revenue, which includes fines for traffic violations, parking violations, code violations and other city ordinance violations, amounts to $36 to 38 million annually. However, it costs upwards of $24 million to run the municipal courts and pay staff and judges. Additionally, the city attorneys office, which provides prosecutors for the municipal courts, cost $17 million annually, though not all of the city attorney staff is dedicated to the municipal courts. It is probably closer to one-third, or $6 million yearly. This would leave a 'profit' of $6-8 million, which probably does not cover all of traffic division's expenses.All of this should be compared against the $675 million police budget, and the total city budget of $4 Billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 As to Ricco's questions, studies show as many as 2/3 of all arrests, and 50% of non-traffic related arrests, result from traffic stops. Additionally, in 1995, traffic crashes cost Americans $150 Billion, according to a USDOT study. ALL personal and property crimes cost Americans $19 Billion. The argument to de-emphasize traffic enforcement would appear to be an excellent way to drive down police efficiency and arrest rates, while simultaneously driving up insurance costs and traffic fatality rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTX Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 In these statistics that correlate the number of officers per capita does that include the Metro, Constables and (Sheriffs, assuming they do) that patrol within the city limits? Do the other cities have comparable organizations? I'm just wondering if we are comparing apples to apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 As to Ricco's questions, studies show as many as 2/3 of all arrests, and 50% of non-traffic related arrests, result from traffic stops. Additionally, in 1995, traffic crashes cost Americans $150 Billion, according to a USDOT study. ALL personal and property crimes cost Americans $19 Billion. The argument to de-emphasize traffic enforcement would appear to be an excellent way to drive down police efficiency and arrest rates, while simultaneously driving up insurance costs and traffic fatality rates.I'm referring not to traffic officers who patrol, looking for moving violations, but the chicken-squad who gives tickets to those doing 50 in a 35, like along Westpark drive, where the speed limit feels more like 45. I'm all for increased traffic enforcement, but setting speed traps and u-turn inspection traps do about as much as red light cameras for preventing accidents and traffic fatalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm referring not to traffic officers who patrol, looking for moving violations, but the chicken-squad who gives tickets to those doing 50 in a 35, like along Westpark drive, where the speed limit feels more like 45. I'm all for increased traffic enforcement, but setting speed traps and u-turn inspection traps do about as much as red light cameras for preventing accidents and traffic fatalities.While the tactics are sneaky, it gives the officers a chance to make sure the Taxes, Inspections, and safety is being followed.If a suspect or drug dealer is caught in the process, then more power to them. My tags and inspection is up to date. I always wear my seat belt, and I don't have any warrants (anymore), so I'm not worried.Now, if they would only have stricter enforcement on the HOV lanes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm referring not to traffic officers who patrol, looking for moving violations, but the chicken-squad who gives tickets to those doing 50 in a 35, like along Westpark drive, where the speed limit feels more like 45. I'm all for increased traffic enforcement, but setting speed traps and u-turn inspection traps do about as much as red light cameras for preventing accidents and traffic fatalities.Talk to your city councilmember. Sounds like the problem is with the rules, not the enforcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Talk to your city councilmember. Sounds like the problem is with the rules, not the enforcer.I live outside the city, but work in the city, so I have no representation. I don't see how a council member is going to go against any program HPD has that generates money, unless perhaps HPD is only targeting a certain district or demographic. The speed traps and u-turn inspections are citywide though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm referring not to traffic officers who patrol, looking for moving violations, but the chicken-squad who gives tickets to those doing 50 in a 35, like along Westpark drive, where the speed limit feels more like 45. I'm all for increased traffic enforcement, but setting speed traps and u-turn inspection traps do about as much as red light cameras for preventing accidents and traffic fatalities.Why not just drive the limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I live outside the city, but work in the city, so I have no representation. I don't see how a council member is going to go against any program HPD has that generates money, unless perhaps HPD is only targeting a certain district or demographic. The speed traps and u-turn inspections are citywide though.Fine, then write your state representative.Maintaining reasonable speed limits will not deprive HPD of ticket revenue. No matter what the speed limit, there will always be plenty of folks exceeding it.Why not just drive the limit?Because I like sticking it to the man, that's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Because I like sticking it to the man, that's why.Jeebus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Why not just drive the limit?Its a speed trap. You feel like you are driving the limit then the officer tells you that there's a 35mph sign behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm referring not to traffic officers who patrol, looking for moving violations, but the chicken-squad who gives tickets to those doing 50 in a 35, like along Westpark drive, where the speed limit feels more like 45. I'm all for increased traffic enforcement, but setting speed traps and u-turn inspection traps do about as much as red light cameras for preventing accidents and traffic fatalities.Cops giving out tickets for going 15 over the limit. Of all the nerve! Next, they'll start growing their hair long, wearing baggy drawers, and buying dope from people without even telling them that they're cops! Maybe they'll pretend they are 13 year old girls on the internet to prey on lonely 50 year olds who just want a friend! Where will it end! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Cops giving out tickets for going 15 over the limit. Of all the nerve! Next, they'll start growing their hair long, wearing baggy drawers, and buying dope from people without even telling them that they're cops! Maybe they'll pretend they are 13 year old girls on the internet to prey on lonely 50 year olds who just want a friend! Where will it end! You know what I meant by my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 And you know what I meant by mine. By the way, if there has not been a traffic study done on the stretch of road you got the ticket on, the ticket may be no good. A traffic study basically determines the safe speed for the road. In any event, I thank you for your contribution to my city's budget, just as I am sure that you appreciate my daily donation of cigarette taxes...and I am not even violating the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Back to the original post. While the Economist makes our budget problem sound severe, they are taking Houston's $100 million shortfall out of context. For instance, Phoenix, a city about to attempt to arrest and incarcerate tens of thousands of illegal immigrants, had to cut $240 million from their $1.2 Billion budget, a cut of 22%. Where we may cut the police budget 1% and limit some overtime, they just booted 140 cops off the force...almost 5% of the department. Houston is trying to close a $100 million gap in a $4 Billion budget, or 5%. That's peanuts. Life is tough all over. By comparison, we are living in nirvana....even if Peter Brown is worried. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Life is tough all over. By comparison, we are living in nirvana....even if Peter Brown is worried. Peter Brown isn't quite sure what he feels. Except a vaguely urban reach-around, and his wife's money drying up. Is this the wrong thread for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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