New Apartment Complex Yet No Noise From Katy Locals

[AtticaFlinch]

You must be overcome with self-loathing. Enjoy your McMansion and giant SUV.

The Ford Expedition XL was part of the move-in package. It doesn't fit in the garage, but that's ok. It's used to mow down pedestrians anyhow, and considering there are no pedestrians in the garage...

Oh please.

You and others are ones to talk about stereotyping, the way you are doing it with suburban folk.

But I am suburban folk now. I'm just trying to fit in. When in Rome's suburbs, and all...

It's no secret that too many apartments can bring an area down, or at least be a big contributer to decline. 15-20 years ago, Alief had good schools. You're now on FM 1960 you say... do you realize Westfield High was a highly ranked, desirable school 10-15 years ago? There's a thread in city-data about the subject now... city folk in addition to suburban folk are naming bad apartments as a primary reason neighborhoods decline. Some apartments may start out good, and go bad later as they age and renters want the latest and greatest. At that point, rents go down, as does quality. If there's too much of it, it can overwhelm the neighborhood, and in moves the cheap housing and banks giving anyone who can breathe a bad loan. Then come the foreclosures, pride in the area and sense of community gone. People from all walks of life can tell you this, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

How is Westfield High School bad? In what way? Proximity to apartments make it bad? I suppose I should move farther out, well past the Woodlands, Conroe and Hunstville (as they have apartments there!). Where would you recommend I go that no apartments exist so I can ensure my children have the best education possible? I fear for their fragile uneducated minds if I can't have them taught in an area without dark people and poor people and worst of all, renters.

Exactly. Have you noticed how few posts there have been on this site lately? Is the narrow mindedness of people who never travel outside the loop driving people away? It's driven me away a few times and certainly made me less likely to post.

I hear ya. Intolerance sucks.

[Fringe]

In an effort to fit in better with my new digs, how's this for a start:

Apartments lead to bad schools! People of different cultures and whose skin most likely happens to be darker than mine live in apartments! They malevolently destroy property values like that planet-eating thing from the original animated Transformers movie! Angry exclamation!

Now your finally getting it!  Welcome to the burbs. 

[AK123]

How is Westfield High School bad?

Is this a trick question? Just look at any school rankings website. It's certainly not good, especially compared to a decade back. There was even a Chronicle article on the FM 1960 area and how that whole area has seen a decline.

Same for the Alief schools, that goes without saying. If it's not the overbuild of apartments and cheap housing, what would you say the reason for its decline is then? I'd like to hear your theory, since you're such the expert on this topic.

I guess homeowners should just stop caring about what happens on open land in the areas around us, in the name of being PC for you. The developers who overbuild on apartments and cheap housing have no concern whatsoever on what it can do to the surrounding area... they're just in to make a buck.

It shouldn't take a genius to figure any of this out. It seems like you just like to get in the Katy forum and pick fights for the heck of it, so never mind.

[TheNiche]

How is Westfield High School bad? In what way? Proximity to apartments make it bad? I suppose I should move farther out, well past the Woodlands, Conroe and Hunstville (as they have apartments there!). Where would you recommend I go that no apartments exist so I can ensure my children have the best education possible? I fear for their fragile uneducated minds if I can't have them taught in an area without dark people and poor people and worst of all, renters.

Don't worry too much about Westfield. It is in slow decline, but by the time your kid(s) get there, they'll probably be in a better position to max out their class rank than they would've been in a school swarmed with hovering parents. And that's a good time to become more well-adjusted to the real world anyway. Where your attention needs to be focused is the elementary and middle schools, which on account of their smaller size tend to be affected much more dramatically by transitioning neighborhoods or even just one or two apartment complexes.

And as someone who went to an elementary school where I was the only white kid that hadn't been adopted by a Hispanic family...yeah, I think that that screwed me up a little. You never want a small child to be the odd person out...particularly if they're smarter than everyone else because that makes them a double minority of sorts. Don't get me wrong--I also think that it does damage for a kid to be one of an overwhelming majority at pretty much any stage. But yeah, I do think that there are good reasons to take demographic trends into consideration.

[AtticaFlinch]

Is this a trick question? Just look at any school rankings website. It's certainly not good, especially compared to a decade back. There was even a Chronicle article on the FM 1960 area and how that whole area has seen a decline.

The retail decline is visible. I'm not arguing that. And no, my question wasn't a trick question. Seriously, how is Westfield a bad school? Using what measurement? I don't know too many rubrics beyond matriculation and standardized test scores which measure these things. And frankly, if those are the only things used, I find little use for the rankings. Standardized test scores are useless for measuring much beyond student apathy to standardized tests. Matriculation is one of those things that'll happen based more upon famlilial values than upon which school a kid is in. So, no, seriously, in what way is Westfield bad that I should be scared for the future of my little darlings? In what way would I have been a vastly better parent had I moved to Sugarland or Katy?

Same for the Alief schools, that goes without saying. If it's not the overbuild of apartments and cheap housing, what would you say the reason for its decline is then? I'd like to hear your theory, since you're such the expert on this topic.

I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but I suppose it wouldn't be a stretch to look at the overbuilding of cheap retail strip malls in the area, the general pan-USA urban migratory shift and the general decline in the economy as a whole. There is no single thing that makes 1960 what it is today, and pointing your finger at the development of apartment complexes as being the entire reason for the decline is dumb. With all that said, once you get off the main drag of 1960, the neighborhoods themselves are very nice.

I guess homeowners should just stop caring about what happens on open land in the areas around us, in the name of being PC for you. The developers who overbuild on apartments and cheap housing have no concern whatsoever on what it can do to the surrounding area... they're just in to make a buck.

I'd say you just described all developers there. They aren't in it to pass the time, and most aren't a 501c3.

And don't feel a need to be PC for me. I won't be a bigot for you, so I don't expect you to be someone you're not for me.

It shouldn't take a genius to figure any of this out. It seems like you just like to get in the Katy forum and pick fights for the heck of it, so never mind.

You don't live in Katy either. I click on "New Posts" when I enter the site. I don't intentionally go to the Katy forums looking for a fight. I'm interested in real estate, and this forum is a good sounding board for learning about market trends. It's what brought me here in the first place. The arguing is just a serendipitous side benefit.

Don't worry too much about Westfield. It is in slow decline, but by the time your kid(s) get there, they'll probably be in a better position to max out their class rank than they would've been in a school swarmed with hovering parents. And that's a good time to become more well-adjusted to the real world anyway. Where your attention needs to be focused is the elementary and middle schools, which on account of their smaller size tend to be affected much more dramatically by transitioning neighborhoods or even just one or two apartment complexes.

And as someone who went to an elementary school where I was the only white kid that hadn't been adopted by a Hispanic family...yeah, I think that that screwed me up a little. You never want a small child to be the odd person out...particularly if they're smarter than everyone else because that makes them a double minority of sorts. Don't get me wrong--I also think that it does damage for a kid to be one of an overwhelming majority at pretty much any stage. But yeah, I do think that there are good reasons to take demographic trends into consideration.

My kids will be fine. Hell, I probably won't even still be in Houston by the time they're in high school. I'll be in some other city subjecting them to a ghetto education surrounded by all those... others.

[jgriff]

Where would you recommend I go that no apartments exist so I can ensure my children have the best education possible? I fear for their fragile uneducated minds if I can't have them taught in an area without dark people and poor people and worst of all, renters.

Bunker Hill or Piney Point.

[LTAWACS]

Bunker Hill or Piney Point.

I concur.

[AtticaFlinch]

Bunker Hill or Piney Point.

I concur.

Nah, it's too close to the apartments on I-10. And, certainly the proximity to Spring Branch, with all those Korean and Mexican restaurants, would damage my children for life and make their IQs drop at least thirty points. I'm afraid even the Mrs Baird's Wonderbreadlands of Piney Point and Bunker Hill Village would prove to be too detrimental to the development of my precious children.

Plus, I'd be forced to look at this even more than I already have to:

[jgriff]

Nah, it's too close to the apartments on I-10. And, certainly the proximity to Spring Branch, with all those Korean and Mexican restaurants, would damage my children for life and make their IQs drop at least thirty points.

You may be right. I've noticed some low IQs in my family members that live in Bunker Hill.

[LTAWACS]

How can we get around this then?

[AtticaFlinch]

How can we get around this then?

I say we get a bunch of wealthy gueros together and build a new community on an abandoned offshore oil rig that'll be completely isolated from the rest of the world. The dirty renters wouldn't be able to get anywhere near our saltwater fortress. It'll have the best schools ever!

Or, we can herd up the non-landed class and put them to work as serfs in the medieval feudalistic fashion.

Or, we can round them up and put them in special camps to help them better their, er... "concentration".

[little frau]

You may be right. I've noticed some low IQs in my family members that live in Bunker Hill.

Not talking about anyone in particular, but even very rich people can have dumb kids. Even stupid kids. And very poor parents can produce brilliant children.

[AtticaFlinch]

Not talking about anyone in particular, but even very rich people can have dumb kids. Even stupid kids. And very poor parents can produce brilliant children.

No way! Intelligent kids are only born to people who own houses placed far away from apartment complexes.

[Fringe]

Of course intelligence is not measured by income, race, or even legal status. What it comes down to is whether families take education seriously or not. Sadly some don't and you can look at the school rankings (new ones just came out in yesterday's paper) and see exactly who does and who doesn't.  I moved from Houston to Sugar Land over 20 years ago so my kids would not have to go one of those lower rated schools (that hasn't changed in 40 years). At the time I couldn't afford to live in a nicer area of Houston not could I afford private schools.  Best decision I ever made.  My kids still graduated from what is considered one of the most international diverse high schools in the nation. 

[livincinco]

How is Westfield High School bad? In what way? Proximity to apartments make it bad? I suppose I should move farther out, well past the Woodlands, Conroe and Hunstville (as they have apartments there!). Where would you recommend I go that no apartments exist so I can ensure my children have the best education possible? I fear for their fragile uneducated minds if I can't have them taught in an area without dark people and poor people and worst of all, renters.

Guess this just ties in with all your other sweeping statements, but I notice that you're the one that keeps throwing out the racecard in all of these discussions. I'm not sure why you've got this perception of Katy, but for your reference - here's the stats on the students registered in Katy ISD.

Katy ISD

White 49.0%

Hispanic 30.5%

African-American 10.0%

Asian/Pacific Islander 10.0%

Native American 0.2%At-Risk 37.5%

Low Income 27.6%

Limited English Proficient 13.6%

That makes Katy ISD a whole lot more diverse than the general US population and sure as h*ll doesn't fit the stereotype that you keep throwing out there. This isn't a racial thing, stop trying to make it one.

[AtticaFlinch]

What it comes down to is whether families take education seriously or not.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

Areas with "good" schools are nothing more than areas with higher concentrations of families who value education. Birds of a feather, and all.... Most likely, the movement becomes a zeitgeist among educated families when they buy into the hype that the area or the school affects their child's education; when in reality, the child's commitment to education is developed at home. No amount of great teachers or "good" schools will make a bit of difference if the parents don't give a crap. Likewise, no school is truly bad if the parents do in fact give a crap.

Edit: The repetition of LTAWAC's phrasing from earlier in the thread was unintentional.

[AtticaFlinch]

This isn't a racial thing, stop trying to make it one.

It isn't? Weird.

I totally must have misread this in the original post:

The question is "why isn't Elmer out there looking for illegals" as he said in his statement.

Oh wait, I get it. You've made this a semantic issue. We're not talkin' race here. We're talkin' xenophobia. Fair enough. Carry on with the xenophobic rationalizing.

Edit: Also, the only issue I was trying to make this about was AIDS-infected needles, but nobody wanted to follow me there. I'm just addressing the other issues as you guys have queued them up for me.

2nd Edit: Also, still no one has told me in what way Westfield HS is a bad school. I'd like an explanation as to why.

[livincinco]

It isn't? Weird.

I totally must have misread this in the original post:

Oh wait, I get it. You've made this a semantic issue. We're not talkin' race here. We're talkin' xenophobia. Fair enough. Carry on with the xenophobic rationalizing.

Opposition to illegal immigration makes one a xenophobe? Last time I checked illegal immigration was a question of legality, not of diversity.

Areas with "good" schools are nothing more than areas with higher concentrations of families who value education. Birds of a feather, and all.... Most likely, the movement becomes a zeitgeist among educated families when they buy into the hype that the area or the school affects their child's education; when in reality, the child's commitment to education is developed at home. No amount of great teachers or "good" schools will make a bit of difference if the parents don't give a crap. Likewise, no school is truly bad if the parents do in fact give a crap.

Somewhat correct. The opposite is also true. A school that is highly rated is likely due to a concentration of parents that care. I also think that you're under-estimating the impact of the school environment. An exceptional student and an exceptional parental commitment are likely to succeed in any environment. The average child and family is more likely to raise or lower themselves to the level of academic commitment that he/she sees around them.

Bottom line, as a parent, do you want your child in an environment where your commitment to education is going to be reinforced or one where your child will need to succeed in spite of their surroundings?

[AtticaFlinch]

Opposition to illegal immigration makes one a xenophobe? Last time I checked illegal immigration was a question of legality, not of diversity.

Is this the position you're taking?

Somewhat correct. The opposite is also true. A school that is highly rated is likely due to a concentration of parents that care. I also think that you're under-estimating the impact of the school environment. An exceptional student and an exceptional parental commitment are likely to succeed in any environment. The average child and family is more likely to raise or lower themselves to the level of academic commitment that he/she sees around them.

So, in essence, apartments shouldn't affect the quality of education in Katy in the least as the schools are so whiz-bang awesome, they'll bring up the near-neanderthal children of the renters to exceptional levels of academic achievement. Well then, I don't see what the fuss about apartments is all about.

Bottom line, as a parent, do you want your child in an environment where your commitment to education is going to be reinforced or one where your child will need to succeed in spite of their surroundings?

So, are you suggesting that if I don't choose to live in Katy, I care less about my child's success than someone who chooses to live in Katy?

[livincinco]

Is this the position you're taking?

So, in essence, apartments shouldn't affect the quality of education in Katy in the least as the schools are so whiz-bang awesome, they'll bring up the near-neanderthal children of the renters to exceptional levels of academic achievement. Well then, I don't see what the fuss about apartments is all about.

So, are you suggesting that if I don't choose to live in Katy, I care less about my child's success than someone who chooses to live in Katy?

Dude, you nailed it. I didn't even realize what I was saying until you made it clear to me. I am in awe of your powers of perception.

[AtticaFlinch]

Dude, you nailed it. I didn't even realize what I was saying until you made it clear to me. I am in awe of your powers of perception.

No worries. If people actually reasoned out their positions before making them public, we'd either have more neo-Nazis or fewer Republicans. It's tough to guess how ethically people would react once they've confronted the truth behond their own motivations.

[LTAWACS]

Is this the position you're taking?

So, in essence, apartments shouldn't affect the quality of education in Katy in the least as the schools are so whiz-bang awesome, they'll bring up the near-neanderthal children of the renters to exceptional levels of academic achievement. Well then, I don't see what the fuss about apartments is all about.

So, are you suggesting that if I don't choose to live in Katy, I care less about my child's success than someone who chooses to live in Katy?

Contrary to popular belief, there are some good school in HISD. Lyons elementary ranked #3 in the state. I wonder what the highest ranking school in katy and sucroseland ranked.

[livincinco]

Contrary to popular belief, there are some good school in HISD. Lyons elementary ranked #3 in the state. I wonder what the highest ranking school in katy and sucroseland ranked.

Did you read any of my previous posts on this thread?

[AK123]

2nd Edit: Also, still no one has told me in what way Westfield HS is a bad school. I'd like an explanation as to why.

Why do you want others do to the research for you? Are you really that lazy?

http://www.schooldig...721/school.aspx

1 out of 5 stars. Ranks 1108th of 1437 Texas public high schools.

Especially considering it used to be ranked much better just a decade or two back.

I don't expect that area of town to come back for a long time. Unincorporated Harris County and little/no control over bad development. Too bad, because there are lots of nice, unique neighborhoods on the north side of 1960. Unlike areas like Westbury which are being revitalized because of location, I think 1960 is too far out from town to come back anytime soon, if not all of my lifetime.

[LTAWACS]

Did you read any of my previous posts on this thread?

No. Please elaborate.

[AtticaFlinch]

Why do you want others do to the research for you? Are you really that lazy?

Yes, lazy, and look, you did my research for me. So woot woot, it worked.

And, oh wierd, I think I found the root of the ranking problem:

Dang. I couldn't find any of the rubrics used to justify their ranking system, but that website had two graphs which indicated the race mix at Westfield. (BTW, those were the only two graphs, and really the only data listed at all. (Your website, not mine, but thanks for highlighting, underlining and italicizing my point.))

[Callo]

The root of the ranking problem is a red X? Damn, it all makes sense now.

You've truly shown me the light.

[AtticaFlinch]

The root of the ranking problem is a red X? Damn, it all makes sense now.

You've truly shown me the light.

Doubtless you'd be incapable of seeing the light with your blindfold on.

[Callo]

Doubtless you'd be incapable of seeing the light with your blindfold on.

Clever.

[LTAWACS]

Did you read any of my previous posts on this thread?

Thankfully, no.