kylejack Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Sorry, Montrose was and is, a SUBURB. I, too, lived there (for 6 yrs., 2000-2006)I believe that once a suburb, always a suburb, unless the original intent, i.e., homes on platted lots, is destroyed. Not so in Montrose, an overwhelmingly RESIDENTIAL suburb of downtown Houston.There's no such thing as a suburb of an area of a city, something is either a suburb of a city or it is not. That is to say, downtown does not have any suburbs, but Houston has many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 There's no such thing as a suburb of an area of a city, something is either a suburb of a city or it is not. That is to say, downtown does not have any suburbs, but Houston has many.What value does that definition have? Why should suburbs be "of cities"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 What value does that definition have? Why should suburbs be "of cities"?Because that's what suburb means.1 a: an outlying part of a city or town b: a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city cplural : the residential area on the outskirts of a city or large townMontrose is not on the outskirts of the city, nor is it adjacent to the city of Houston (because after all it is within the City of Houston). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So if Houston couldn't annex property as easily as it has, and Westbury was outside the city limits, then it would be suburban. That renders the distinction useless when discussing suburbs in different locations. We can't use city limits in the definition because of differences in local laws.I've told you three times now that I agree that WESTBURY IS SUBURBAN. My argument is that it WESTBURY IS NOT IN "THE SUBURBS".What value does that definition have? Why should suburbs be "of cities"?Because if they (suburbs) are not "of a city" then what in the hell are they a suburb of??? If you have one suburb in an area that is not serviced by another area that is more organized and centralized (i.e. town, city, four-way stop with a post office and lone gas station, whatever..) then its no longer a suburb - its the actual town/village/community/etc. - no matter what style of neighborhood layout it possesses!So if Westbury could be built in a cow pasture in west texas, with not a single stitch of civilization for over 100 miles, as suburban in construction and layout as it is - it still would not be a suburb.How are you not grasping that suburban and suburbs are as different as dogs and elephants??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because that's what suburb means.1 a: an outlying part of a city or town b: a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city cplural : the residential area on the outskirts of a city or large townMontrose is not on the outskirts of the city, nor is it adjacent to the city of Houston (because after all it is within the City of Houston).That's just one definition. I'm asking why we here on The HAIF should use that definition. Have you read any research or analysis on land use, planning or demographics? The standard dictionary definition is rarely used in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 That's just one definition. I'm asking why we here on The HAIF should use that definition. Have you read any research or analysis on land use, planning or demographics? The standard dictionary definition is rarely used in that context.The dictionary definition is often used in that context, that's why its the dictionary definition. If it were a definition that has fallen into disuse it would be indicated by saying that the meaning is archaic. Merriam-Webster has a better handle on what a word means than a random poster on these internets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I've told you three times now that I agree that WESTBURY IS SUBURBAN. My argument is that it WESTBURY IS NOT IN "THE SUBURBS".Sorry, I missed that. You're saying that a neighborhood can be suburban, but not a suburb? Can a neighborhood be a suburb, but not suburban? Because if they (suburbs) are not "of a city" then what in the hell are they a suburb of???That's what I'm saying. Suburbs don't have to be suburbs "of" anything. It's common to speak of one area being a suburb of another area, but that relationship isn't required for suburban land use. See my previous post about suburbs that are equidistant between two urban areas. So if Westbury could be built in a cow pasture in west texas, with not a single stitch of civilization for over 100 miles, as suburban in construction and layout as it is - it still would not be a suburb.How are you not grasping that suburban and suburbs are as different as dogs and elephants???Probably because "dog" and "elephant" are both nouns and refer to different kinds of animals, while "suburb" and "suburban" are a noun and an adjective, respectively, that refer to the same land use distinction. "Suburban" adds information to another noun (specifically, that the noun is a suburb). Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Webster also lists:2 plural : the near vicinity : environs (adjoining region, etc).Imo, Houston is so bloated that it fails to adhere a lot of standard definitions and it is based more on interpretation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Webster also lists:2 plural : the near vicinity : environs (adjoining region, etc).Imo, Houston is so bloated that it fails to adhere a lot of standard definitions and it is based more on interpretation...Precisely. Hence the need to use population density and land use to provide a useful definition for the term. That lets us meaningfully compare how land is used in this area with how land is used anywhere else on the globe, at any time in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Webster also lists:2 plural : the near vicinity : environs (adjoining region, etc).Imo, Houston is so bloated that it fails to adhere a lot of standard definitions and it is based more on interpretation...That's only a definition for "suburbs" not suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Sure, and people will argue all day long whether someone lives in 'the suburbs' or 'a suburb' using all sorts of reasons for the answer that lies in an extremely grey areaFor the record, I never considered Westbury, Bellaire, and especially Montrose to be suburbs now even though they most definitely were (or exurban, even) back when they were established.This thread has, though, made me think about it a lot more - I still don't have a 100% opinion either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm getting a headache on this one. Here's what I consider suburbs OF Houston: Clear Lake, Friendswood, Pearland, Stafford, Sugar Land, Alief, Katy, Tomball, Copperfield, Champions, The Woodlands, Conroe, Humble, Channelview, Baytown and many others. I just moved back to Montrose after 25 years in other parts of the city and it ain't no suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Sorry, I missed that. You're saying that a neighborhood can be suburban, but not a suburb? Can a neighborhood be a suburb, but not suburban?Yes, and yes. I'm sure there are suburbs in the northeast and in other countries that rival if not exceed our own downtown's bordering neighborhoods in terms in urban density.Westbury is not a suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, and yes. I'm sure there are suburbs in the northeast and in other countries that rival if not exceed our own downtown's bordering neighborhoods in terms in urban density. Especially East End where I live There's just miles and miles of abandoned warehouses surrounding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, and yes. I'm sure there are suburbs in the northeast and in other countries that rival if not exceed our own downtown's bordering neighborhoods in terms in urban density.Westbury is not a suburb.OK, just to make sure I have it straight now: The Westbury is a suburban non-suburb.Is it an urb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have no idea why anyone would live outside the loop. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanS Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have no idea why anyone would live outside the loop. Ugh.Because its close to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have no idea why anyone would live outside the loop. Ugh.Yeah, nothing happens in Tokyo or San Francisco. Everything important is inside the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 OK, just to make sure I have it straight now: The Westbury is a suburban non-suburb.Is it an urb? Now you're just messing with me.. I have no idea why anyone would live outside the loop. Ugh. Well, at first I did it to get a bigger home in a quieter/safer neighborhood in a better school district.. But now I'm realizing I just did it to avoid ILS. Inner-Loop Snobbery. Not to be confused with IBS, however similar the symptoms are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Now you're just messing with me.. Ya think? No, really. I need to know. I used to think I lived in "a suburb", but now I might live in "an urb". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBuddy06 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have no idea why anyone would live outside the loop. Ugh.Because their kids have 70% less chance of getting shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Because their kids have 70% less chance of getting shot?You're kidding, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBuddy06 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You're kidding, right?Nope. Look at Houston crime map and similar maps for Houston suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Nope. Look at Houston crime map and similar maps for Houston suburbs.Looking at houstoncrimemaps.com is what made me think you were kidding. Outside the loop has more homicides than inside the loop. Especially Sharpstown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 i was on the net earlier and if the definite article "the" was used....then you were in the suburbs. the woodlandsthe heightsthe etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Because its close to work?BryanS is right - A lot of times work is outside of the loop - The business districts of Westchase, Uptown, and Greenspoint are outside the loop. In fact Greenspoint is both inside and outside of the Beltway. Also most of Houston's foriegn consulates are outside the loop.EDIT: Westchase also straddles the Beltway, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBuddy06 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Looking at houstoncrimemaps.com is what made me think you were kidding. Outside the loop has more homicides than inside the loop. Especially Sharpstown.Outside the loop is not a suburb to me, Sugar Land, Pearland, the Woodlands, Katy etc. is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Outside the loop is not a suburb to me, Sugar Land, Pearland, the Woodlands, Katy etc. is.But LTAWACS said "outside the loop", not "in the suburbs."And I live in "The Westbury" (look under my name), therefore, I live in a suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBuddy06 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 But LTAWACS said "outside the loop", not "in the suburbs."He has no idea why anyone will live outside the loop, as opposed to inside the loop. In other words, he prefers inside the loop.And I live in "The Westbury" (look under my name), therefore, I live in a suburb.Sing that to musicman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 And I live in "The Westbury" (look under my name), therefore, I live in a suburb.you're the only person that i know that calls it "the westbury" btw however i do agree you're in a burb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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