GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[102IAHexpress]

The retail component is 360,000 square feet contained in two or three stories. That's not insignificant (although it is certainly far from the largest retail center going up in Houston).

Also, yes, the offices actually are special. They'll be loft offices with higher ceilings than is typical of other office buildings. Pavilions is targeting creative firms, not just a big oil company or an accounting firm.

The residential component would've been relatively small, and unless you'd have been living there, wouldn't matter almost at all except that it would completely block excellent views of the skyline district from Polk Street.

Thanks for the response Niche.

I've read most of this thread and I've keeping up with developments of HP and I am glad to see Downtown building new construction, it's just that HP seems over hyped at best and counterproductive at worst.

From what I understand about half will be retail and the other half will be office space. House of blues will be one of the big retail anchors, which will compete directly with the Hard Rock Caf

[TheNiche]

Thanks for the response Niche.

I've read most of this thread and I've keeping up with developments of HP and I am glad to see Downtown building new construction, it's just that HP seems over hyped at best and counterproductive at worst.

From what I understand about half will be retail and the other half will be office space. House of blues will be one of the big retail anchors, which will compete directly with the Hard Rock Caf

[musicman]

I don't know... when I hear "dress code"... I just think that they want people to actually put thought into what they are wearing...

hmmm...i think i'm going to put on a pair of pants. LOL

Huh? Who's complaining? I choose my words very carefully so please don't misquote me. I just want to know what all the hoopla is about. 22hundred posts and over 100K views later and we basically have a new medium rise office tower.

Edited March 17, 2007 by musicman

[Subdude]

A potential benefit of Houston Pavillions is that something like this, just a couple blocks from the GRB, could really help them bring in more conventions. Until now downtown hasn't had anything comparable for people to do in the evenings. I wonder if the Harris County folks see this as putting competitive pressure on their plans to make Reliant Park a large convention center.

[ricco67]

The grackle will survive. Don't worry about them, you should be more concerned about the fate of the human race...

FEAR THE GRACKLE!!!

Oh, I do, I just hoping for those birds to go away a bit. I HATE those damned birds.

HATE.

I mean, SERIOUS HATE.

there isn't a font strong enough or a word in the english language for me to explain my absolute dislike for those birds.

I hope they move to the suburbs.

[stjnky]

All three lots are dirt now.

[SunKing]

All three lots are dirt now.

Again, thanks for the pictures. Keep 'em coming!

[tierwestah]

Again, thanks for the pictures. Keep 'em coming!

I'm getting pretty excited. I can't understand how someone could say this thing is overhyped. Downtown hasn't seen nuttin' like this before.

[houstonsemipro]

I'm getting pretty excited. I can't understand how someone could say this thing is overhyped. Downtown hasn't seen nuttin' like this before.

That person said "overhyped" meaning the tenants. The only tenants is worth waiting for is House of Blues and Lucky Strike.

[CSOM]

All three lots are dirt now.

Great! Thanks for the pics, but who's the hairy guy in the tighty greenies?

[HtownWxBoy]

That person said "overhyped" meaning the tenants. The only tenants is worth waiting for is House of Blues and Lucky Strike.

The restaurants are pretty good, too. The book store that was announced is almost the same thing as say, Barnes & Noble... and people would be a bit more excited if that one was coming... but we are getting something very very similar. I can understand Forever 21 being a bit of a letdown... but there are still more tentants to come. I was a bit bummed in the beginning as well when the new major tenants were announced... but I am totally psyched again... this project plus One Park Place plus Discover Green.... plus hopefully the other retail coming to Main Street like American Apparal... Downtown is going to change so much!!

[stjnky]

Great! Thanks for the pics, but who's the hairy guy in the tighty greenies?

That would be Har Mar Superstar, from my trip to the South By Southwest music fest this past week. :-)

I assure you he is in no way affiliated with the Houston Pavilions.

[joshuajbp]

I hope this "new concept" Books-A-Million actually organizes and straightens their book where you can actually find what you're looking for. The Books-A-Million at Katy Mills is an absolute nightmare to actually find a book you're looking for. Children books in the sports section, sex books in the Religious section, Music books in the gardening section, fiction books in the true crime section... The ones I've been to in Louisiana aren't much better either... <fingers crossed>

[Mister X]

Books-A-Million sounds fantastic. Any book store that puts sex books in the religious section is my kind of book store.

I don't care if HP was only going to be one story high and it's anchor tenants were kmart and walmart, seeing 3 downtown parking lot eyesores turned into ANYTHING is worth sacrificing a virgin for. (and I don't mean the obsolete megastore)

HP, the Park Tower, and Discovery Green are going to change downtown forever. Ten years from now no one will be able to remember how Houston existed without HP. This is a great time. Seeing these projects come to life is like witnessing the dawning of a new 21st century Galleria being built in the perfect urban location.

Be psyched. Be very psyched.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Mister X

[HtownWxBoy]

Books-A-Million sounds fantastic. Any book store that puts sex books in the religious section is my kind of book store.

I don't care if HP was only going to be one story high and it's anchor tenants were kmart and walmart, seeing 3 downtown parking lot eyesores turned into ANYTHING is worth sacrificing a virgin for. (and I don't mean the obsolete megastore)

HP, the Park Tower, and Discovery Green are going to change downtown forever. Ten years from now no one will be able to remember how Houston existed without HP. This is a great time. Seeing these projects come to life is like witnessing the dawning of a new 21st century Galleria being built in the perfect urban location.

Be psyched. Be very psyched.

AMEN, AMEN AND... AMEN!! VERY WELL SAID!

[ToolMan]

The Houston Pavillians will be a success if it is anything like the Marqee off I-10.

[MidtownCoog]

What's funny about this project is that it is actually replacing one of the more "attractive" surface lots.

Now if we could just figure out a way to get rid of the ugly ones.

[Highway6]

The Houston Pavillians will be a success if it is anything like the Marqee off I-10.

That would be bad.

The Marquee is ghetto, Jillians is like ChuckyCheese for rif-rafs. I along with friends on separate occasions have been accosted by gun-toting gangsta-wannabe scum there. I've seen fights in Drink Houston. Not to mention, traffic in and out is always a @%@#$.

I hope to never hear the Pavillions compared to the Marquee Center again.

[musicman]

The Houston Pavillians will be a success if it is anything like the Marqee off I-10.

don't say that. the few times i went i thought it was kind of rough.

[bkjones98]

Jillians is like ChuckyCheese for rif-rafs.

Isn't that a tautology?

[TheNiche]

I hope to never hear the Pavillions compared to the Marquee Center again.

Not to mention that the Marq-E has had a pretty bad financial track record. High vacancy rates and a high rate of tenant turnover. If HP goes in the same direction, it would basically be the very last downtown retail complex ever built.

[TAK]

don't say that. the few times i went i thought it was kind of rough.

if by "rough" you mean lots of kids who are black or hispanic, yes.

musicman, do you happen to live in the woodlands or kingwood? several of your posts about "thugs" and "rough" seem to indicate you have no idea what you're talking about, but you see young minorities as rough thugs, instead of just kids being kids.

how many "thugs" do you think are going to go downtown and pay to park just to stand around and "not shop"? how many thugs do you see at Bayou Place - none. How many "thugs" do you see near downtown, period - only at the bus station, and more than thugs, you just see poor minorities.

If you have a real issue, man up and say what the issue is. Don't puss out and use codes like "thugs" and "rough" when, i'm guessing, the only "rough" "thugs" you know are those you see on TV.

Being someone who lives near those you seem to refer to as "thugs" and "rough", I assure you, you have very little to be concerned about. "They" aren't going to mess up your high end bowling alley. I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" at an ESPNZone (and I've been to a few.) I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" in the city theaters in SF or Boston or Chicago, so your fears are either overblown fears of crime, or fear of minority youth - neither of which you have to be concerned with at HP.

Carry on.

edit: nothing against kingwood or the woodlands, as they are both nice places - the reference, for anyone who didn't get it, would be to the stereotyped bubble mentality... playing on the opposite stereotype of "rough" and "thug" used by musicman.

Edited March 20, 2007 by TAK

[ToolMan]

how many "thugs" do you think are going to go downtown and pay to park just to stand around and "not shop"? how many thugs do you see at Bayou Place - none. How many "thugs" do you see near downtown, period - only at the bus station, and more than thugs, you just see poor minorities.

I guess you weren't downtown a couple a months ago on a Friday or Saturday night. Why you think the downtown organization is cracking down on some of these bars?

I have only been to the Marqui a couple of times and that was during the day. It seemed like a pretty nice place.

[MyEvilTwin]

Being someone who lives near those you seem to refer to as "thugs" and "rough", I assure you, you have very little to be concerned about. "They" aren't going to mess up your high end bowling alley. I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" at an ESPNZone (and I've been to a few.) I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" in the city theaters in SF or Boston or Chicago, so your fears are either overblown fears of crime, or fear of minority youth - neither of which you have to be concerned with at HP.

As someone who is often as hyper-sensitive as you seem to be on this issue, I should point out that there have been 2 separate stabbing incidents and one shooting incident (the latter resulting in death) in the Drink Houston parking lot at the Marquee over the last couple of years (http://www.click2houston.com/news/7396237/detail.html). Maybe that shouldn't be enough to label a place as "rough" or maybe it should, but it doesn't seem fair to chalk the comment up to cultural insensitivity given that background.

[musicman]

if by "rough" you mean lots of kids who are black or hispanic, yes.

musicman, do you happen to live in the woodlands or kingwood? several of your posts about "thugs" and "rough" seem to indicate you have no idea what you're talking about, but you see young minorities as rough thugs, instead of just kids being kids.

how many "thugs" do you think are going to go downtown and pay to park just to stand around and "not shop"? how many thugs do you see at Bayou Place - none. How many "thugs" do you see near downtown, period - only at the bus station, and more than thugs, you just see poor minorities.

If you have a real issue, man up and say what the issue is. Don't puss out and use codes like "thugs" and "rough" when, i'm guessing, the only "rough" "thugs" you know are those you see on TV.

Being someone who lives near those you seem to refer to as "thugs" and "rough", I assure you, you have very little to be concerned about. "They" aren't going to mess up your high end bowling alley. I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" at an ESPNZone (and I've been to a few.) I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" in the city theaters in SF or Boston or Chicago, so your fears are either overblown fears of crime, or fear of minority youth - neither of which you have to be concerned with at HP.

Carry on.

edit: nothing against kingwood or the woodlands, as they are both nice places - the reference, for anyone who didn't get it, would be to the stereotyped bubble mentality... playing on the opposite stereotype of "rough" and "thug" used by musicman.

by rough i didn't mean black or hispanic. i didn't say anything about young minorities either. IMO, rough can be any race, ethnicity,etc.

there are definitely thugs downtown as well. i see them quite frequently when i am there particularly when the clubs were open. to be honest i haven't been to bayou place in about a year so i don't know if there are any thugs there specifically.

as for seeing "just poor minorities" at the bus/train stop, i didn't say that either. i road the bus/train last friday and i didn't see "just poor minorities."

i have no fear of most youth, i rather not just be around the rough ones.

BTW, i live inner loop in the middle of a minority neighborhood and i am a minority. i don't consider my immediate neighbors to be rough either. 10 yrs ago i wouldn't have considered the neighborhood but i bought over 5 yrs ago and really like the area. you won't be seeing me in the remote burbs anytime soon. you can find me aug 28, downtown at jones hall enjoying the tony bennett concert.

[GovernorAggie]

if by "rough" you mean lots of kids who are black or hispanic, yes.

musicman, do you happen to live in the woodlands or kingwood? several of your posts about "thugs" and "rough" seem to indicate you have no idea what you're talking about, but you see young minorities as rough thugs, instead of just kids being kids.

how many "thugs" do you think are going to go downtown and pay to park just to stand around and "not shop"? how many thugs do you see at Bayou Place - none. How many "thugs" do you see near downtown, period - only at the bus station, and more than thugs, you just see poor minorities.

If you have a real issue, man up and say what the issue is. Don't puss out and use codes like "thugs" and "rough" when, i'm guessing, the only "rough" "thugs" you know are those you see on TV.

Being someone who lives near those you seem to refer to as "thugs" and "rough", I assure you, you have very little to be concerned about. "They" aren't going to mess up your high end bowling alley. I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" at an ESPNZone (and I've been to a few.) I've never seen any "rough" "thugs" in the city theaters in SF or Boston or Chicago, so your fears are either overblown fears of crime, or fear of minority youth - neither of which you have to be concerned with at HP.

Carry on.

edit: nothing against kingwood or the woodlands, as they are both nice places - the reference, for anyone who didn't get it, would be to the stereotyped bubble mentality... playing on the opposite stereotype of "rough" and "thug" used by musicman.

I would have to agree. I have been to the MarqE several times--more than I can count. And I've only been there on Friday nights. I have never seen anyone get in trouble--for that matter, I've never seen a heavy security or police presence there. I have also never felt threatened at any time by the youngsters who are there. Do many of them dress like they're out of a rap video? Yes. Do many girls dress in ways that you wonder how their parents let them out of their houses wearing belts (or what they call "skirts")? Yes. Do you wish that the kids would use a little better language? Yes. But have I ever seen a fight there? No. Have I ever seen any gun-waving? No. Have I heard gunfire? No.

Actually, the only time I have ever heard gunfire in Houston was on *prestigious* Kirby at 59 (not 610--WOW). For that matter, wasn't there just a shooting at the Shell station next to the Galleria? Is the Galleria now a "thug" hotspot? After all, I see people wearing wife-beaters and hip-hop jerseys with their pants hanging past their behinds in the Galleria too--and they're of all races.

[Highway6]

.. chalk the comment up to cultural insensitivity given that background.

I have no problem being culturally insensitive.

The group I saw chasing another group through the parking garage with a gun drawn.. hispanic.

The guy that mugged my cousin in the parking garage.. hispanic.

I've seen bar fights other places, but its usually lone drunks.. the people or groups getting into a fight are in the minority and usually easily handled.

Drink Houston though.. i've seen fights in there, and in the parking lot leaving the theatre.. and it just always feels like it wouldnt take much for the whole place to explode in a riot.

Every incident I've seen there has involved hispanics and what appears to be gang related.

I will not got back there becasue from what I've seen and experienced on numerous occasion as well as others I;ve known.. that whole center seems to be a cesspool of minority, predominantly hispanic, gang activity.

I haven't been there in well over a yr... maybe things have changed.. but I'd say half the time's I have been there, I've witnessed problems.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Highway6

[musicman]

As someone who is often as hyper-sensitive as you seem to be on this issue, I should point out that there have been 2 separate stabbing incidents and one shooting incident (the latter resulting in death) in the Drink Houston parking lot at the Marquee over the last couple of years (http://www.click2houston.com/news/7396237/detail.html). Maybe that shouldn't be enough to label a place as "rough" or maybe it should, but it doesn't seem fair to chalk the comment up to cultural insensitivity given that background.

a sheriff's deputy friend i know works there every weekend on a side job. things do happen there where his assistance is needed quite frequently.

I have no problem being culturally insensitive.

no you don't. i'll have to withdraw your nomination for the most pc of the year award! LOL

[Highway6]

i'll have to withdraw your nomination for the most pc of the year award! LOL

If you must...

From my experiences, every problem at the Marqee Center has seemed to tie into Hispanic gang activity... and considering just up Longpoint and Wirt and Bingle and such there are plenty of predominantly hispanic apartment complexes.. I see no reason to backtrack from my statements.

I guess I could have said "Group of misunderstood youths of Latino heritage who's hobbies consist of collecting and showing firearms and making sport of pranks and tomfoolery"... but that would be a crock of $hit.

It's mostly Jillians and drink houston... I've been to the Imax there a few times without problems. And I like to think too that I can handle rowdy youth... but when one has personally seen boys chasing boys with guns, and when one has relatives mugged at gunpoint in the same Center... your view of the safety of that Center is permanently altered.

[musicman]

It's mostly Jillians and drink houston... I've been to the Imax there a few times without problems. And I like to think too that I can handle rowdy youth... but when one has personally seen boys chasing boys with guns, and when one has relatives mugged at gunpoint in the same Center... your view of the safety of that Center is permanently altered.

i understand. i'd be concerned if anyone is chasing me with a gun. i remember i had a glass bottle thrown at me on w. dallas while skating. i was definitely more careful the next time.