Is Dubai's bubble about to burst?

[editor]

There's an interesting article on Bloomberg today about how Dubai's financial position isn't nearly as rosy as it used to be, or as the hype would suggest. Now Dubai wants to borrow money from its neighbors to pay its bills.

Some key quotations:

Government-controlled companies owe at least $47 billion in total, more than Dubai's gross domestic product

Dubai World, a state-owned holding company, acquired almost 10 percent of Kirk Kerkorian's MGM Mirage last year for about $5.1 billion. MGM shares have since tumbled to $16.80 from $84 when the deal was agreed.

cumulative liabilities are currently rising faster than investments are able to generate returns

By comparison, the U.S. GDP is $13.84 trillion, while the debt is $10 trillion. But the U.S. has a lot more robust and diverse economy than Dubai.

[UrbaNerd]

Dudu, go baibai

[TexasVines]

one would have to be totally void of a brain to not see this coming

their economy is basically revolved around the fact that they are not the only totally ass backwards place near the middle east (if you consider arrested for kissing on the beach not ass backwards)

they have ZERO middle class and they have just about no one with any worth while skills or creative ability and probably zero education infrastructure for 90% of their population

yet they wasted every dollar they had on large buildings and sand islands and houses build in the most non sustainable way possible

they should have built massive desalination plants and agriculture infrastructure along with solar and wind capacity to run it and then set up basic educational infrastructure to man those investments

can you imaging how hot it will be in all those homes and buildings once the power is not there to run the AC....their minions will have to move back into the festering old city just to survive while those modern buildings sit there empty

maybe china will buy them up, but I am not sure china has any use for them since they have limited oil reserves compared to other places and zero other useful infrastructure and there are plenty of arridable places with more resources that are far easier for china to rape like 90% of africa

[N Judah]

Like Vegas, it's having its problems.

[TexasVines]

Like Vegas, it's having its problems.

except unlike Vegas Dubai has zero to offer anyone that is not a muslim....the beaches are not attractive and the water is not attractive and the activities are extremely limited especially for anyone that is not from a highly restrictive muslim culture

[RedScare]

except unlike Vegas Dubai has zero to offer anyone that is not a muslim....the beaches are not attractive and the water is not attractive and the activities are extremely limited especially for anyone that is not from a highly restrictive muslim culture

So true. Dubai is not Christian friendly like Vegas is.

[N Judah]

except unlike Vegas Dubai has zero to offer anyone that is not a muslim....the beaches are not attractive and the water is not attractive and the activities are extremely limited especially for anyone that is not from a highly restrictive muslim culture

Just because a couple of Brits got busted for having sex on the beach doesn't mean it's ultra restrictive. Most of the European and anglophone world (US excepted) seems to find it acceptable to live/work there.

As for their education system, they seem to have simply outsourced it, to the delight of American educational institutions:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/education/10global.html

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2008/m...-east-campusem/

[editor]

except unlike Vegas Dubai has zero to offer anyone that is not a muslim....the beaches are not attractive and the water is not attractive and the activities are extremely limited especially for anyone that is not from a highly restrictive muslim culture

You have very strong feelings about this. Have you been to Dubai? Can you be more specific?

From everything I've read it's not about religion there, it's about money. If you have money you can do anything you want (including hookers, bacon and booze for the Muslims). But if you've had a different experience I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it.

[TexasVines]

You have very strong feelings about this. Have you been to Dubai? Can you be more specific?

From everything I've read it's not about religion there, it's about money. If you have money you can do anything you want (including hookers, bacon and booze for the Muslims). But if you've had a different experience I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it.

I have not been there personally, but that doen not prevent me from having an educated opinion on it....and I know a number of people that have lived in the middle east in the oil business

so I know their beaches and their ocean are not that attractive compared to a number of places on earth......especially when you said yourself "it is all about money".......honestly what would make someone from the US or Europe vacation there when there are a number of places that are less costly and far more attractive to vacation to

second just as you said "it is about money" which also says if you don't have enough money and get caught doing the wrong thing or if the wind is blowing the wrong direction that day.....you will find yourself in jail like the people that were KISSING on the beach....and if you are not arab it will be all the more popular to hold you up as an example like the people caught KISSING on the beach

only if you have enough money can you gamble and get away with it, chase hookers and get away with it, get stumbling drunk and get away with it.....and all that in an area that is not that pretty....if you are not married you can find yourself in trouble if the wind changes the wrong way......if you are G-L or TG FOR GET ABOUT IT unless you like getting your head chopped of on vacation

again you seem to call my opinion into question......but it is the reality....many more beautiful places to go......that cost less....are far less restrictive.....and many of them even offer LEGALLY what you can be tossed in jail for for months with no trial in Dubai

tell me what would draw a Japanese tourist there.....over priced gambling with a possibility of going to jail.....what would draw a GLTG couple there.....the possibility of getting your head chopped off.....what would draw a family from any western country with kids there....un attractive beaches and tepid water and the chance your kid might get you in cultural issues for doing what is generally accepted in many other parts of the world......if you want to gamble and chase hookers then there is Vegas and Monocco

if you want to bong out until you can't walk there is the bahamas and Mexico......if you are of an alternate lifestyle there is ANYWHERE else on earth for you....if you want wildlife or beautiful beaches....Dubai is not it

so again in reality what is Dubai....it is just as you said a play ground for muslims with money that have fallen off the wagon where they can go and still pretend they are not going off of the wagon.....for anyone else it is the least desirable of what is out there with all the cost and risk of jail

please offer something to prove this wrong

I am not trying to totally bash the place, but the idea that it is or will be anything, but a play ground for wealthy MUSLIMS is just laughable.....because not being muslim puts you one place further down the "getting away with it" list and there are hundreds of places in the world that offer all Dubai offers with much more beauty, less cost, less restrictions, possibly legally, and less chance of going to jail

[editor]

I'm sorry if you thought I was being overly critical of your post. I was just trying to find out if you'd been there.

You seem to be harping on the people being arrested for kissing on the beach. I did a quick Google search and couldn't find such an incident. What I did find is a British couple arrested for having sex on a beach. I seem to also recall a British couple being deported for having sex next to a hotel pool, but I may be thinking of another country.

Perhaps the thing you're thinking of is the lesbian couple that was arrested for kissing on the beach. It's an important distinction to make because the U.A.E. is an Islamic country operating under Islamic law. Whether you think it's right or wrong, it's their law (for now) and their country. That will change over time as Dubai and the rest of the Middle East becomes more Westernized. But it's just like the time I almost got arrested in Thailand for wearing shorts in the presidential compound -- their laws, their country. I think the law is stupid, but if I don't want to obey it I should just stay out.

Don't drink in public. Don't kiss in public. Don't bring drugs into the country. Don't chow down on a ham sandwich on the sidewalk. Don't bump uglies on a beach chair. If you can't go on vacation without doing those things then you might want to look into getting some therapy for self control.

Another thing you seem to go on about is the "value" of the place and what would draw tourists there when there are nicer places to be far cheaper. The fact of the matter is that a great number of the people who visit Dubai as tourists aren't concerned about "value." They have no idea that their hotel room costs $2,000/night. They have people to worry about that for them. They go because they want to be with their friends or business contacts or just for adventure.

There will always be tourists who go places because they're curious about what it might be like. Galveston is a better value than Dubai, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see Dubai. Galveston I've seen. Time to see something else.

Also, you keep saying that Dubai is only a playground for wealthy Muslims. This is not entirely true. While there are a great number of Muslim tourists there, there is also a huge number of tourists from Europe, particularly Britain. In 2007, Dubai had 5.1 million tourists. It has world class golf, hotels, theme parks, shopping, and more. It is becoming a major conference center for the eastern hemisphere. To claim that it's only Muslims or people from islamic countries going to Dubai is simply not true.

You may hate Dubai (and presumably a number of other countries) because of its stance on homosexuality. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have amazing tourist attractions. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not a Dubai fanboy. I, too, believe that it's going to collapse under the weight of its own hubris. But for now Dubai is what it is and it is amazing.

[TexasVines]

actually I don't hate Dubai at all and I can care less about their stand on homosexuals

I would not mind going there myself to see the architectuer as a single male with no dependents, but that does not change my view on it as a tourist location

I only brought up the GLTG crowd because as DINKS they are known as travelers with the income to do it

I just don't see ANYTHING that Dubai offers with the exception of architecture (which has a very limited crowd traveling for it), a chance to see muslim middle east culture in the least restrictive enviornment, and expat jobs that makes it a destination for most people

from everything I have read the couple on the beach was not having sex they were kissing.....and it is a fact that PDA is illegal in Dubai though it is sometimes over looked

I can see reasons people go there don't get me wrong on that.....but as a major tourist draw I see it as EXTREMELY limited

fact PDA is illegal there including kissing

fact cussing and other vulgarities there are illegal and can be inforced

fact being caught drunk in public is illegal there and will get you thrown in jail with NO TRIAL

fact their DWI laws are .0000

fact having blood drawn and being caught with any illegal drugs in your system is illegal even if you did not import the drug....having it in your system is importing it no matter where injested

fact many over the counter drugs and prescrition drugs including many of the over prescribed ones that American teens are given are illegal there

fact women are second class citizens there and will be treated as such including younger girls

fact as a westerner you will be at fault in many cases such as traffic accidents...if you were not there it would have not happened...so you are at fault

fact it is VERY crowded there now and traffic is very bad and they drive like crazed Houstonians with no fear of dying

so all of the above tells me that as an over priced, less than beautiful country, with a greatly different culture, and only a VERY FEW things that can't be found elsewhere Dubai will struggle to ever be a real tourist draw

again that being said as a single, straight, male, with no kids or wife, and a moderate drinker, and an interest in architecture it might be a place I would visit one day if cash was no issue

but it also tells me that it is a place where a western (especially American) family with daughters or ADD medicine filled kids with no respect for their parents or other cultures it is a place that I would avoid like the plague

I happen to feel that there a VERY few things they do in the middle east that America could benefit from......but on the whole it is not the best place for a western tourist especially at the price and especially since there are so many other appealing places to go besides there

sorry if I came off as pissy....I am more amazed that ANYONE but people that want to see amazing architecture (few and far between) and anyone that wants to work there would even give it a thought to visit....because even though it is the most lax muslim country it also offers the least to see from a muslim/arabian/persian cultural point of view and if you are going to put up with their laws then you might as well go to Saudi, Iraq, Iran, or Egypt and see some of the real history VS what Dubai offers

and yes I know people go there, but I can't for the life of me figure out why besides muslims looking for a play ground and people going there to earn a check....and those few lovers of architecture....the shopping, beaches, skiing, desert and all the rest can be beaten hands down many other places for lesser cost and with less chances of breaking their cultural norms

I would also hardly call being .005 while driving lack of self control, or kissing in public especially to someone that is your wife, or daughters wearing shorts, or taking some prescription medicines

and as you stated many go there to see people working there....when those jobs dry up I feel that will dry up as well.....and many Euros, Asians, Russians, Africans and South Americans are known for getting drunk and doing a number of other unacceptable (to Muslims) things while on vacation....with so many prettier and more care free places on earth I again can't figure out why Dubai would even be on their radar

[westguy]

Interesting read here: (link)

Arresting women for kissing on the beach are very small things compared to human rights abuses in the UAE. It's impossible to have this level of extravagance without an extremely hierarchical society.

[editor]

Interesting read here: (link)

Arresting women for kissing on the beach are very small things compared to human rights abuses in the UAE. It's impossible to have this level of extravagance without an extremely hierarchical society.

You're right -- the UAE is still very backwards when it comes to human rights; lots of nations are. With more tourists and more development the UAE is inching towards Western ideals. Unfortunately, it's often two steps forward and one step back.

[editor]

I just don't see ANYTHING that Dubai offers with the exception of architecture (which has a very limited crowd traveling for it), a chance to see muslim middle east culture in the least restrictive enviornment, and expat jobs that makes it a destination for most people

Some of the world's best golf courses are in Dubai, as well as the world's best shopping, hotels, and clubs. There are lots of people who will go there for those things alone.

from everything I have read the couple on the beach was not having sex they were kissing

From everything I've read (a quick Google search turns up hundreds of articles, as recent as September), they are accused of having sex, but claim they were just rolling around topless hugging and kissing. A court has not decided yet.

it is a fact that PDA is illegal in Dubai though it is sometimes over looked

No one in this thread is disputing that fact. It's also frowned upon in Japan, as well. You won't get arrested there, but you may get chastised ("Boku gaijin") by people on the street.

I can see reasons people go there don't get me wrong on that.....but as a major tourist draw I see it as EXTREMELY limited

5.1 million people disagreed with you last year.

fact PDA is illegal there including kissing

Established. And that can be a hard habit to break, especially for couples who have been together for a long time. But you try to adapt to their culture. That's part of travel.

fact cussing and other vulgarities there are illegal and can be inforced

Just like in other countries, and even in some southern cities in recent memory. What's your point? Not every country has free speech rights. Not even France.

fact being caught drunk in public is illegal there and will get you thrown in jail with NO TRIAL

So you don't drink while you're on vacation. If you can't give up alcohol for a week, that's called an addiction and you should spend your time in rehab instead of Dubai.

fact their DWI laws are .0000

I don't see the problem here. If you can't give up alcohol for the span of a vacation then you have bigger problems.

fact having blood drawn and being caught with any illegal drugs in your system is illegal even if you did not import the drug....having it in your system is importing it no matter where injested

So don't do drugs. How hard is that? If you can't stay off drugs for the duration of a vacation then you're a junkie and should check yourself into rehab.

fact many over the counter drugs and prescrition drugs including many of the over prescribed ones that American teens are given are illegal there

This is also true of many other countries, including Japan, Thailand, and other places. The Japanese are notorious for confiscating Tylenol at customs.

fact women are second class citizens there and will be treated as such including younger girls

This is true, and it is a shame, but it's slowly changing. Still, it's their culture. If you don't want to see their culture, don't go. The point of travel is not to assert your customs, but to observe other people's customs.

fact as a westerner you will be at fault in many cases such as traffic accidents...if you were not there it would have not happened...so you are at fault

This wouldn't surprise me, but I'd like to see some citations.

fact it is VERY crowded there now and traffic is very bad and they drive like crazed Houstonians with no fear of dying

How is this different than Los Angeles, New York, London, Paris, Moscow, or any other city that attracts millions of tourists each year?

so all of the above tells me that as an over priced, less than beautiful country, with a greatly different culture, and only a VERY FEW things that can't be found elsewhere Dubai will struggle to ever be a real tourist draw

I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with Dubai's debt exceeding its Gross Domestic Product.

[Montrose1100]

Dubai is actually a great place. The Beach is overbearingly hot, but its pretty and good for a tan. Great for yachts, and if you want to Ski one day, you can. If you want to drop a few grand on some new clothes, you can. If you want to eat traditional food or buy cheap knock-off purses, you can. If you want to rent a small boat and go up and down the main canal, you can. You can also go riding camels & land rovers in the desert. You can swim in a pool or in a huge crack in between two rocks in Oman, with crystal clear, cold blue water. And those little fish that nipple on your dead skin. You can have Chai at the Burj Al Arab in the evening to enjoy the most speechless place I've ever seen. You can have a lot of drinks in many of the hotel bars. Great food all around you, great service even at the smaller hotels.

Sounds like a good vacation to me.

So don't do drugs. How hard is that? If you can't stay off drugs for the duration of a vacation then you're a junkie and should check yourself into rehab.

Or just go to Jamaica Mon! Wah quon? Or Amsterdam.... Vietnam, Afghanistan.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Well going to have to weigh in my two cents here. Having lived there for many years, been there more times than you can count, as recently as the past few months. Will be back over there around Christmas. My children were born and raised there at a young age, and back then things weren't near as over conservative as they are being painted here. Yes the laws are different, more stringent in many ways. I personally love their tolerance or rather lack of tolerance to DWI. I wish we were less tolerant here. You don't have the drunk driver death toll there as you have here. Though an rookie Arab Cabby can be deadly. I first went over to Dubai in the early seventies, it wasn't much more than a desert stop back then, now it's Las Vegas in comparison. It's been highly westernized, of course that's in comparison to the way it use to be. I guess not westernized enough for some, but you need to realize, you are talking about a culture that been around for thousands of years versus a couple hundred, and you can't very well count out culture as being that old because it was just as ass backwards two hundred years ago as any place else. You want to make a case for treatment of migrant workers, take a trip to South Texas and Southern California, or even parts of Idaho, where migrant workers are living in terrible conditions, working for next to nothing. Please don't act like it doesn't exist here in the US because it does. There are still sweat shop labor in garment assembly plants, working on a by piece, 1099 contract basis. Dubai has come a long long way, in a very short time. Don't believe everything you hear, and don't judge until you've been there and spent some time in the real Dubai. Just a vacation visit, isn't enough to make a good opinion. Spend some time down in the street markets, learn and understand the culture first. It's really a lovely place.

I still own an Condo in Dubai in DWTC downtown, bought it in 1979 when I had an office there in the WTC Tower. Back then, the tower, (39 stories), was the premier building in Dubai, and one of the tallest, now it's a dwarf.

In 1979 this was the tallest building in Dubai, and remained that way up to the early 90's

I had the Texaco-Anglo Dutch offices on two floors in that building. I lease my residence in the DTC to Schlumberger, they have it as a VIP visitor residence, and use it like a long term hotel type of deal. DTC is a full service residence next door to the tower, complete with maid service, 24/7 whenever whatever consierege. Schlumberger has offices in the Tower and it makes it convenient for them and I keep up the taxes, and make a few dollars on it. It's been paid off for about several years now. At 2100 sq/ft it would be 5 million dollars to replace it. I bout it back in '79 for 375K on a 30 year note and paid it off early. Hydril leased it for several years and paid most of it off for me. The annual rent on an average one bedroom say 1000 sq/ft. is about $95K USD ($7900.00 USD montly). And we are talking non-full service on the edges of the business district, in the older part of town. Down near the marina's it's twice that. Waterfront you don't even want to talk about. Hotels run you five to six hundred USD, and we're not talking the Burj Al-Arab (the Burj will run you $1600 USD per night), just say the Hyatt.

This is old Downtown Dubai, doesn't look much different than say Chicago.

In less than 20 years a lot of these buildings you see here are gone and replace by skyscrapers everywhere you see.

It's such a huge change from the old Dubai, it was staggering to me to watch it happen. My daughter Lindsay now lives in NYC in the Majestic apartment building, on Central Park West, and I much prefer Dubai over Manhattan myself. I mean the Majestic is a coll old building, not really much into the Art Deco thing myself, but a lot of Gangsters lived there in the 30's, so it's got some historic character about it. I couldn't begin to tell you how much it cost's to live in that coop, my Son in Law's parent have an entire floor in the south tower. I know it's not cheap. Been there twice, it's okay to visit but not for me as far as living there. Of course I couldn't handle living in Dubai anymore either, been in the country too long I guess, but I love to visit and stay a week or too. Too old and set in my ways I reckon.

Now as far as these two that were arrested for having sex on the beach, I'm thinking you would get arrested in Galveston for the same thing. They were let off with a warning the first time and then did it again a few minutes later. And knowing a drunk Brit, she got mouthy with the cops, it was described as aggressive, you'd be getting the beat down in the Galveston County Jail for that type of behavior. Sp lighten up a little on the overdose of melodrama. It's not near as conservative as other places in the world, and not much different than any place in the US. You want to lay around naked and screw on the beach, it's no holds barred in parts of the Riviera, or fly to Jamaica to one of the Hedonism Resorts and "rock out with your c_ _ _ out". But don't try to through a dim light on Dubai, because the won't tolerate it. Not many places will. Now there are old school conservative Muslims in Dubai, but they stay to themselves, have their own parts of town where they eat and shop. But you are never beaten over the head with their beliefs. It's just not like that.

Now you can still catch a Camel race if you want to.

A Sikorsky flying in at the Burj Al-Arab.

The one the only Burj Al-Arab. You really have to see this place in person to really appreciate it.

The beaches are beautiful and clean. They work hard to keep them that way. Heat takes some getting use to, but it bearable.

And I am going to throw this one in just for you there Vines!!

This is a portable generator on a local construction sight. Yes and you are reading that lable correctly. The Bin Ladin (the is the correct spelling for Osama's last name) family in Saudi Arabia are a very well respected development outfit, and are big in the construction business in Dubai. Osama Bin Ladin was banished by his own family because of his radical politics and religious belief. Believe it or not, there are a lot of outstanding, hard working, Muslims out there, that are no more an issue than the Southern Baptists in Georgia.

Spend enough time around them your get a better picture. My wife is Lebanese, born in Lebanon, but her family left to avoid persecution, and she grew up in Abu Dhabi, I met my wife there, when she was in school at ADU. Her family were Christian converts, that's the reason they had to leave Beirut.

[editor]

Fantastic post, and even better pictures. This is the most important one IMHO:

It shows a side of Dubai that I've never seen, and never even considered existed. You're right -- with the mix of Art Deco and 70's/80's buildings it looks like Chicago, or Denver, or Cleveland, or Phoenix. The things I've seen and read have only included the very old (pearl markets, etc...) and the very new. That looks like a whole area I'd like to spend a week in with a wide angle lens.

[Montrose1100]

Call me crazy, but isn't that NYC?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Call me crazy, but isn't that NYC?

Nope!

Crazy

[houstonmacbro]

There's an interesting article on Bloomberg today about how Dubai's financial position isn't nearly as rosy as it used to be, or as the hype would suggest. Now Dubai wants to borrow money from its neighbors to pay its bills.

Some key quotations:

By comparison, the U.S. GDP is $13.84 trillion, while the debt is $10 trillion. But the U.S. has a lot more robust and diverse economy than Dubai.

Man, I thought they paid cash for all that building. You mean to tell me it was financed in loans?!?

[moni]

Just a little note, I have a young female friend who has her own business. She makes artsy crafty things and she just spent 3 weeks in Dubai working her stand in a market place, 21 days straight, long hours. She is single, attractive and had no problems with the local laws. She made great money for her 3 weeks. She had lived in Dubai several years ago and enjoyed herself. Actually, her only complaint was the heat and the poor working AC at her hotel. She always comments about how helpful and friendly the natives are.

[Montrose1100]

Nope!

Crazy

I see the Woolworth Building, One Chase Manhattan Plaza, The World Financial Center.... Thats Nyc.

[TexasVines]

just to make clear I have no issues with their culture and I am well aware of the Bin Ladens and their massive family and the differences in it

and again the story I have read they were not having SEX (as in what bill clinton considers it), but they were hugging and kissing....I would hope and expect that someone having sex on the beach in Galveston would get arrested, but not someone hugging and kissing

but I still stand by the idea that for the VAST majority of world travelers going on a vacation there are other better places to go especially coming from a western culture

from those that posted here that have lived there again the #1 factor was that they were there to make MONEY and any other interest or attraction was just something else that happened to be there

Bubai has some things going for it...it is less conservative than most of the middle east.....has better infrastructure....and an understanding of global commerce.....but again IMO the vast majority of what is fueling them besides oil is the people coming there to build the infrastructure that they will not build for themselves.....that in turn draws people who come to visit those expats.....if their building boom stops or slows down and the expats leave I see even fewer people that will just plain choose to go to Dubai for a pure vacation......as was stated it is extremely hot there (yes I know Houston is hot and humid) and they are still extremely conservative compared to many other places in the world

as for the drug and alcohol laws I am a moderate drinker so that is no issue to me......but MANY around the world a vacation is a time to tie one on and let loose not a time to be vastly more conservative than where they came from and where they live.....this is the reason that so many cruise ships, beach resorts, and vacation hot spots actively advertise their alcohol and the low cost of it

I stand by the opinion that if i wanted to see true muslim/arabic/persian culture there would e other places to go besides Dubai and I would adapt to that places even more conservative rules and laws that is not an issue for me....but a place to take kids, for those living an alternate lifestyle, those looking to unwind and cut loose, and those just looking to take it easy on a nice relaxing beach or hit the ski slopes there are so many other places to go it is impossible to count them

I would LIVE in Dubai tomorrow for the right pay....I have no issues with how they choose to run THEIR country and no desire to change it and I laugh at those that are too stupid to realize what it will be like there or refuse to conform to THEIR CULTURAL norms

but from an aspect of seeing middle east/muslim/arab/persian culture I would go to Iran tomorrow over Dubai

from a beach vacation aspect I would go hundreds of places before Dubai

from a snow or waterskiing aspect I would go to hundreds of places before Dubai

from an aspect of where to go with western children (even the rare well behaved one) there are hundreds of places besides Dubai

same with gambling, drinking, cutting loose, RELAXING, golf, shopping and just about anything else besides architecture

I would much prefer to go to Lebenon where I can hit the beach and then a 45 minute cab ride later I can hit a REAL ski slope....not Dubai with a lesser beach and a fake ski slope

I am not trying to bash the place at all......to keep it on topic my point is that I do not understand at all (with the exception of commerce that I mentioned above all based around oil) what is driving the boom in Dubai and the fact that the boom might crash on them is not a big surprise to me at all what so ever....because once the building is done and the oil commerce slows down and the expats go home I do not see much of ANYTHING at all that Dubai offers that would draw your AVERAGE COMMON tourist looking for a RELAXING vacation.....and those looking for a real taste of any culture can go a lot of other places than Dubai

I do not wish for their economy to crash, I prefer that their economy continues on a positive path, I do not wish for them to change any aspect of their culture especially to suit me.....I just have little understanding what would draw someone there for what I consider a vacation much less what would draw others there that really like to tear it up on a vacation....because everything listed so far I feel can be found better in some other places without the conservative culture to go with it

to be clear I love Houston like no place on earth.....but I can think of a hundred places I would vacation besides Houston even if I was not born there and had seen most of what it offers already.....people enjoyHouston because it is a great place to LIVE and WORK and has a lifestyle that is condusive to raising a family.......but there are better golf cources other places....better beaches....definately better lakes.....gambeling, booze, drugs, clubs, shopping, culture and the like in other places evern in the USA.....but that does not mean I want to LIVE in Vegas....that would be HORRIBLE to me...nor do I want to live in a beach resort town year around....I might live on the right lake....but it would probably lack the proper job opportunities

I am not bashing Dubai.....I am saying even with all the EDCUATED opinions that have been offered I still am not convinced that Dubai will be a VACATION mecca in the future because to me it offers only one thing better than anywhere and that is architecture .....everything else can be beaten by dozens if not hundreds of other places....and when you mix in the conservative culture that many will not want to deal with and it is that much less appealing IMO

I wish Dubai all the best, but I feel they could have made a number of other investemnts in their country besides trying to be a vacation destination

I have said in the past that Shreveport does nothing for me because if I want to gamble I would just assume go to Vegas.....but now Vegas has IMO made the same mistake as Dubai.....If I wanted "fake New York" I would go to REAL NEW YORK....if I wanted fake Italy I would go to REAL ITALY....If I wanted to pay too much for restaurants and shopping I would go to Palm Springs or Beverly Hills...If I want fake Disney I will go to Disney.....with out the inexpensive high quality hotels, inexpensive above average food, and gambling with DEALS Vegas is just another over priced dump to me....with all the crowds, traffic, and fools to prove it

I hope Dubai does not crash...I would love to visit there some day....but it will be after I have gone to dozens of other places if I ever get there.....and I wish they would have invested in something besides tall buildings and vacation cheese that would carry them through a boom and bust in energy......the fact this article has come out to me shows me that unfortunately I might be right....and when cheap oil money dries up and the expats leave Dubai will not really offer much to anyone but a very few.....way too few to support what they have built

[citizen4rmptown]

I see the Woolworth Building, One Chase Manhattan Plaza, The World Financial Center.... Thats Nyc.

As much as i like architecture, but dont know enough to win an argument,

so i can be wrong if i agree with montrose, here BUT

i saw the image whole, and zoomed it probably 5 to 10 % more it does look a little too western

I don't know Dubai, let alone the country's culture and gangs and youth rebelliousm , but i see graffiti and the buildings ( i know can be found anywhere) seem too much 20th century to me, but i dont kow much about old downtown dubai other than i knew before now that it has an old downtown.

[Montrose1100]

As much as i like architecture, but dont know enough to win an argument,

so i can be wrong if i agree with montrose, here BUT

i saw the image whole, and zoomed it probably 5 to 10 % more it does look a little too western

I don't know Dubai, let alone the country's culture and gangs and youth rebelliousm , but i see graffiti and the buildings ( i know can be found anywhere) seem too much 20th century to me, but i dont kow much about old downtown dubai other than i knew before now that it has an old downtown.

I even see that tall Building across in Jersey. There are no other photos of this mock NYC anywhere? Is it a fake backdrop? Theres no way Dubai built a Downtown Manhattan.

[Montrose1100]

As much as i like architecture, but dont know enough to win an argument,

so i can be wrong if i agree with montrose, here BUT

i saw the image whole, and zoomed it probably 5 to 10 % more it does look a little too western

I don't know Dubai, let alone the country's culture and gangs and youth rebelliousm , but i see graffiti and the buildings ( i know can be found anywhere) seem too much 20th century to me, but i dont kow much about old downtown dubai other than i knew before now that it has an old downtown.

Its impossible. I would have seen it when I was there.

[ChannelTwoNews]

It's Manhattan from around Chinatown.

A couple more architectural clues that prove it's NYC include the Manhattan Municipal Building & Thurgood Marshall Federal Courthouse, both to the left of Woolworth at the center of the photo.

[editor]

A decision is expected today about the British couple.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_7739/contentdeta...ntguid=QJhm3x55

"These are testing times for Dubai, a sunshine state where everything always goes right," said Christopher Davidson, a Dubai specialist and a lecturer at Britain's Durham University.

"They cannot let badly behaved Brits off scot-free," Davidson said. "But if they throw the book at them, what would that do to Dubai's tourism industry?"

Dubai's indigenous population has long been demanding the government take action to preserve their religious values and small-town traditions. Emiratis only account for 15-20 percent of a population dominated by Asian migrant workers and increasingly Western ex-pats and tourists.

"They (Emiratis) are not anti anybody, but the situation is pushing people to become kind of angry," said Ebtisam al-Kitbi, a native of Dubai and a political science professor at Emirates University in Al Ain.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Well it's 5:42 A.M Saturday morning, and a nice Balmy 82 degrees right now. But re's a great vew of the Burj Al Arab.

First off let me apologize to Montrose, I stand corrected. I some how got my links screwed up, and for some reason I have two stray photos in my UAE folder in photobucket, just so happens they were in adjacent to the photos I was trying to post. Me and these static pad mice don't get along anyway. I edited the photo I was actually trying to post. Originally I just posted and closed out because I had to get to Bush to fly out. And somehow got my wires crossed. When I responded to his questioning it, I was on my iPhone in mobile mode, setting at my gate and couldn't see the photo he was questioning, and this is the first time have had Internet in the past three days. Not much Internet on the outskirts Abdali where I have been Since Wednesday. But now I am in Dubai, and have a two days break before some intense meetings. Friday was the last day of Shawwal, and work some will get done Monday. There will be feast all weekend because of the overlap of Ramadan and Shawwal. So I am going to relax and catch up on my HAIF fix. Going to walk around town and take in a few local treats and will shoot some more interesting shots of the older stuff around town. Sun will be up in a couple of hours.

[Subdude]

The sister of one of my co-workers moved there a few months ago, and the daughter of one of our contractors also does. Both girls are very happy there.

There are an amazing number of 100+ story skyscrapers in the planning stages.