China

[wernicke]

I think it's a lot of people's fear that China will rapidly catch up and surpass us. They have hundreds of thousands of American trained engineers, a lock on African natural resources, and 1.3 billion people (and probably a military that rivals or surpasses ours technologically and probably dwarfs us in terms of troops -I am sure someone will be able to give those stats, but I am too lazy right now to look it up).

Sorry, but, isn't it common knowledge that the US military budget dwarfs all other nations? China's military neither rivals nor surpasses ours in terms of technology, and it approximates ours in terms of troop levels.

World Military Spending Figures.

US military spending accounts for 48 percent, or almost half, of the world

[RedScare]

Sorry, but, isn't it common knowledge that the US military budget dwarfs all other nations? China's military neither rivals nor surpasses ours in terms of technology, and it approximates ours in terms of troop levels.

World Military Spending Figures.

US military spending accounts for 48 percent, or almost half, of the world

[webdude]

Sorry, but, isn't it common knowledge that the US military budget dwarfs all other nations? China's military neither rivals nor surpasses ours in terms of technology, and it approximates ours in terms of troop levels.

World Military Spending Figures.

US military spending accounts for 48 percent, or almost half, of the world’s total military spending

US military spending is more than the next 46 highest spending countries in the world combined

US military spending is 5.8 times more than China, 10.2 times more than Russia, and 98.6 times more than Iran.

Does it say how much of that budget is borrowed from China?

[editor]

It has gotten more about making money.

Since the Olympics re-started it has never been about anything but money. The IOC is a business and putting on these games is how it stays in business and pays its thousands of staff members. The patriotism and jingoism that goes along with it is theater. Aside from the scale, there's very little difference between the IOC holding the Olympics and Clear Channel putting on a concert. They're both entertainment events.

That said, I love the Olympics. I have my favorite sports and my favorite teams. I will watch it every night. I DVRed the opening ceremonies and have already watched three events. I think the whole ten days or whatever is a fantastic spectacle.

I used to work with a bunch of griefers who would say things like, "no one watches the Olympics; they're dumb." Well, four billion people watched the opening ceremonies last night. I proudly count myself among those who thing it's a wonderful thing.

But I do like the Winter games better.

The Olympics is about who is the best athletes in the world and when the athletes take steroids it takes away from what the Olympics mean.

I read an article recently about the expanded battery of tests the athletes have to go through. And now the IOC is going to save their fluid samples for eight years so they can be re-tested as technology improves.

One interesting thing was that the athletes are DNA tested to make sure the right people are wearing pink and blue uniforms. Turns out it's not new -- it started decades ago when the Soviet bloc "women" suddenly started dominating certain sports.

This morning I watched some kind of weightlifting competition. I don't know the technical name for what it's called but it was a bunch of tiny bulky Asian women doing clean jerks. It was quite compelling.

I'm disappointed the the equestrian events are not only over, but were not televised in the United States.

As for Olympic TV, I think of McDonalds, VISA and Coke...and all make me ill.

How exactly did you expect NBC to pay the almost one BILLION dollar price tag to carry the games? ($935,000,000.00 I think it what it paid.)

I'm disappointed that there aren't more and better commercials. There should be a whole new raft of commercials like at the Super Bowl. And the local ads are awful; make me think I'm watching TV in some small market.

[editor]

Texans are free to be as gaudy as they want.

In China, gaudy is approved and coordinated by the Government.

A nice generalization, but not entirely the truth.

As far as catch up! Are you serious? In the country women still give birth in pig pens and people lets chickens live in their house. This is a documented fact.

Both of those things happen in America, too. It's a documented fact. Drive up to Appalachia some day. Heck, as recently as 2002 there was a house in 77002 with chickens running around in it.

That's why it all rigns false to me.

We fear what we don't understand. Save a little bit of money and spend a week over there. You'll probably come back with a very changed opinion.

[editor]

Texans are free but Chinese are not.

Define your terms. The Chinese have a measure of freedom, and it's growing every day. No, they don't have complete freedom, but it's a growing process. America wasn't free from day one, either.

Even today -- Chinese malls are free to put up giant "Merry Christmas" displays and Christmas trees and most have huge Christmas extravaganzas. Malls in America are not free to celebrate Christmas for fear of politically incorrect backlash, protests, and boycotts.

In China I am free to buy a movie and rip it to my AppleTV, my iPhone, watch it on my computer, give it to a friend or do whatever I want with my bought property. In America I don't buy a disc, I buy a "license" to view it on a DVD player approved by the movie industry for sale in America with a decryption chip in it. If I want to watch the same movie on my AppleTV, I have to buy another license for that. Ditto if I want to watch it on a PMP, and I can't give it to my friend because I only have a "license" not ownership of the disc. Strange how the same movie companies that release a film in America loaded with encryption and "protections" will release the same movie in China with no encryption or protection at all and at half the price. Who's free now?

My father-in-law builds motorcycles for a hobby. But he can't ride them off his property because in order to get it registered he has to prove to his state that each and every part was legally purchased and show receipts. He can't do that because he builds them out of parts from junked motorcycles that his friends give him. So he isn't free to ride a perfectly worthy motorcycle because he got it outside the normal channels and didn't have to pay sales tax on it. It's not a question of how safe the motorcycle is, it's a question of its pedigree. The Chinese people have been building hobby motorcycles for decades and would laugh at the suggestion that they "prove" their motorcycles are legal to some paper pusher.

(This one mostly doesn't apply to Texas, but...) In my last job we were not free to hire or promote the best person for certain jobs. We were required to retain and promote the people who had been with the union longest. In China, businesses are free to hire the best person for the job, and people are free to be rewarded for hard work rather than laziness. In many American states, you hire the person some union (which is not even a government agency) tells you to. Not the person you need or want.

These are just a few minor examples, but they illustrate that Americans are not as free as we think, and other countries enjoy freedoms which America lacks.

I think it's a lot of people's fear that China will rapidly catch up and surpass us.

They will. It's just a matter of time. The 19th Century was Great Britain's century. The 20th was the American Century. The 21st is the Chinese Century. It's time Americans realize that we're the new Europe.

They boo'd my peeps (Iran). We are talking athletes here, not politicians. Let them play soccer in peace.

Was that a boo? My wife and I heard it as a cheer. It seemed to us that Iran, North Korea, Great Britain, Australia (natch) and the United States got the warmest receptions.

Does it say how much of that budget is borrowed from China?

Probably a lot less than we "borrow" from Russia, England, and Japan. That whole "the gubment borrowz rebate monees from teh Chinars!" line is a terribly misunderstood internet myth. It's a great example of people who don't understand how the world works twisting things to make them sound scarier than they are.

[TheNiche]

We fear what we don't understand. Save a little bit of money and spend a week over there. You'll probably come back with a very changed opinion.

Probably not, if he does it right and sees the nice tourist-friendly areas only as he drives through them en route to where the bulk of China actually lives and works. Or especially if he visits rural areas.

[MidtownCoog]

No, they don't have complete freedom, but it's a growing process. America wasn't free from day one, either.

And there you have it. I like the Chinese people, but their form of governement is terrible.

Of course they are allowed to have some measure of freedom. The Czechs had it in Praha after the Prague Spring, but it took the Velvet Revolution to bring down the communist government.

So how old is China? 5,000 or 50?

One Chinese at UH once told me "China is not ready for Democracy". This was right after they seized our spy plane.

I think it's part of their culture and social order.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Probably not, if he does it right and sees the nice tourist-friendly areas only as he drives through them en route to where the bulk of China actually lives and works. Or especially if he visits rural areas.

Just curious Niche', how much time have YOU spent in China? From the sound of it not much. China might surprise those that have never been, since the early 70's, during the Mao years, China has been rapidly catching up at a torrid pace with the West, and set their sights on being a major player in the game. You have to remember, they make up 1/5th of the worlds population, all by themselves. They have the ability to achieve their goals, don't sell them short by any means.

[MidtownCoog]

Here in the US, we have women giving birth in public toilets and ppl living with pigs and rats and lizards in their homes too. Seems they have caught up to us. Also good to know that our rednecks would feel right at home in China.

Seems like someone's pissed the limelight is on China. With all the crap going on here, I think its a good thing the spotlight is away from us for a little while.

Pissed? What an intelligent commentary.

We'll see how well China behaves after the games are over. We'lll see if their recent goodwill towards Taiwan is real.

[houstonmacbro]

I like the Chinese people, but their form of governement is terrible.

And ours is so great?

[BryanS]

Probably a lot less than we "borrow" from Russia, England, and Japan. That whole "the gubment borrowz rebate monees from teh Chinars!" line is a terribly misunderstood internet myth. It's a great example of people who don't understand how the world works twisting things to make them sound scarier than they are.

China is a close second only to Japan in holdings of US Treasuries.

From the US Treasury:

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt (as of May 2008)

Top 10 (in billions $)

Japan - 578.7

China, Mainland - 506.5

United Kingdom 2/ - 272.5

Oil Exporters 3/ - 164.3

Brazil - 151.4

Carib Bnkng Ctrs 4/- 107.6

Luxembourg - 80.3

Russia - 63.7

Hong Kong - 61.4

Norway - 47.1

Who cares about Russia, England, and Japan? Those are the good guys.

Regardless of their form of government, China has a terrible track record on human rights - today, in the present, right now. That is a problem. I don't care how "free" the Chinese people are, or how much we're tied to the hip to their much needed slave labor to build our cheap stuff, the same government that was in power in 1989 that brought the world Tiananmen Square - is still in power today. Until that government is gone, I don

[RedScare]

Who cares about Russia, England, and Japan? Those are the good guys.

Probably should read up on your current events.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09...etia/index.html

[MidtownCoog]

And ours is so great?

Here, my friend, you have the freedom and opportunity to make it better.

And yes, Democracy is better than Communism.

[RedScare]

Here, my friend, you have the freedom and opportunity to make it better.

And yes, Democracy is better than Communism.

Since when is China Communist?

[MidtownCoog]

Since when is China Communist?

Democratic Dictatorship does have much more flair! I am sure Jimmy Carter would approve.

[BryanS]

Probably should read up on your current events.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09...etia/index.html

You're right. I am blinded by the fact that a big chunk of the International Space Station is Russian. That must make them our friends...

[RedScare]

You're right. I am blinded by the fact that a big chunk of the International Space Station is Russian. That must make them our friends...

As long as Bush can still see into Putin's soul, I am sure they are still our friends.

[webdude]

Pissed? What an intelligent commentary.

If the description fits.

We'll see how well China behaves after the games are over. We'lll see if their recent goodwill towards Taiwan is real.

Yes, we will see whether your opinion plays out. Till then, its speculation.

Here, my friend, you have the freedom and opportunity to make it better.

Its kind of weird how the Chinese middle class keeps growing at such a pace when they don't have the freedom and opportunity to make it better.

The sooner we get real about where we fall short, the sooner we can fix it. But alas, many of us will sit on on our asses thinking we are number one forever and ever.

[RedScare]

Its kind of weird how the Chinese middle class keeps growing at such a pace when they don't have the freedom and opportunity to make it better.

You left out the part about the US middle class simultaneously shrinking.

[Jeebus]

Pissed? What an intelligent commentary.

We'll see how well China behaves after the games are over. We'lll see if their recent goodwill towards Taiwan is real.

Taiwan? Shoot.. how about Tibet?

[editor]

Probably not, if he does it right and sees the nice tourist-friendly areas only as he drives through them en route to where the bulk of China actually lives and works. Or especially if he visits rural areas.

There's no need to go on a package tour; China isn't dangerous. I've been to big cities, small villages in deep valleys, and places that would be considered hard-core slums in America. It's not like 80's Soviet Union -- you can go pretty much wherever you want.

Not sure what this has to do with my statement, unless you are chastising me for my display of un-Americanism in not showing proper respect for American companies that make me obese (Coke), give me heart attacks (McDonalds), and charge me usurious interest rates (Visa). On that count I plead guilty.

I'm just saying you shouldn't complain about the existence of commercials in the Olympics because without the commercials you wouldn't be able to see the Olympics.

And you know very well that Coke didn't make you obese, and McDonald's didn't give you a heart attack -- you did it to yourself. No one broke into your home and forced McNuggets down your throat.

Since when is China Communist?

Since October 1, 1949. The only legal political party on the mainland is the Chinese Communist Party.

I've split this topic from the Olympics 2008 thread.

[MidtownCoog]

The sooner we get real about where we fall short, the sooner we can fix it. But alas, many of us will sit on on our asses thinking we are number one forever and ever.

Maybe you should start a thread about America's problems.

Maybe the Chian Web Sensor (I mean Editor) can start another thread to control the conversation for you.

I am sure China is safe.

So why was an American stabbed to death yesterday, and his wife is on life support?

[editor]

I am sure China is safe.

So why was an American stabbed to death yesterday, and his wife is on life support?

If you don't understand the difference between a single incident and an entire culture, then there's no point trying to enlighten you. You are lost.

To play your game -- how many people were stabbed to death in America in the last 24 hours? A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Would you consider America "safe?" If not, then why live here? Why not move somewhere safer?

[MidtownCoog]

If you don't understand the difference between a single incident and an entire culture, then there's no point trying to enlighten you. You are lost.

To play your game -- how many people were stabbed to death in America in the last 24 hours? A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Would you consider America "safe?" If not, then why live here? Why not move somewhere safer?

Nobody is accusing their culture but they are a bit backwards after 5,000 years.

Why did the governement issue guides for citizens to instruct them not to spit in the street, cut in line and a host of other odd behaviors?

5,000 years and what do they have to show for it?

FYI - The smog in Bejing is lovely today. Check out Brian Williams' broadcast on the nightly news.

Human rights abuses alone should have prevented China from ever hosting the games.

[RedScare]

I'm just saying you shouldn't complain about the existence of commercials in the Olympics because without the commercials you wouldn't be able to see the Olympics.

Hmm...perhaps that is my point, that the over-commercialized Olympics and McDonalds, Coke and VISA deserve each other...and my derision.

And you know very well that Coke didn't make you obese, and McDonald's didn't give you a heart attack -- you did it to yourself. No one broke into your home and forced McNuggets down your throat.

You are correct. I am not obese, and my heart is fine. I do not eat or drink the products of either company (except the occasional G2 from Gatorade). It is still striking that the biggest sponsors of the world's premier sporting event are company's that do nothing at all for your health or fitness.

Since October 1, 1949. The only legal political party on the mainland is the Chinese Communist Party.

In name only. China's government is described in various ways, including communist, but the reality is that it is far closer to authoritarian socialist than communist.

I've split this topic from the Olympics 2008 thread.

Good call.

[MidtownCoog]

So we've heard the bad. Let's hear the good on China's role in the world.

[memebag]

Since October 1, 1949. The only legal political party on the mainland is the Chinese Communist Party.

So the word "communist" is all there is to communism? I think not. Today's China is one of the least communist countries on earth. People have to pay for almost everything. The state just tells them which web sites they can't visit.

[MidtownCoog]

There are lots of good commentary on China lately. These people must be "lost"! How dare they bring up reality?

Don't be fooled. China hasn't changed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...china.pollution

Chinese political prisoners 'worse-off' in Games lead-up

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08...e=olympics/2008

China's Olympic dazzle has its dark side

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...8/08/do0806.xml

[Jeebus]

So we've heard the bad. Let's hear the good on China's role in the world.

I agree. Someone please educate me on how China is contributing to world affairs in a positive way, besides have Beijing attempt to stop polluting for two weeks.

And don't counter by asking me to name all the positive ways we are contributing to the world - we're not hosting the olympics - China is.