METRORail Green Line

[Slick Vik]

As for pollution issues, the Tata Nano or something like it seems like a good idea for the United States. Our fleet average for light vehicles actually being used on the road is 18 mpg. Anything to improve that is a good thing.

So you are saying to add more cars to the road. Is global warming not important?

[samagon]

Sidewalk construction makes sense, in the same vein as that HCTRA is required to contribute toward non-tolled roads if those roads help to improve access to its tolled facilities.

METRO has to provide paratransit, too, right along with even rural areas of Texas. Where there isn't a transit agency, they get implemented under one of the regional 'Councils of Government'.

My understanding is that the Tata Nano actually isn't selling very well in India because its so minimalist. Indian new-car-buyers are as enamored by luxuries as American new-car-buyers, and whereas the low-end of the market is dominated by motorcycles. Where safety is concerned, motorcycles are where I draw the line. I wouldn't want those to be subsidized because their benefits are offset by healthcare costs.

As for pollution issues, the Tata Nano or something like it seems like a good idea for the United States. Our fleet average for light vehicles actually being used on the road is 18 mpg. Anything to improve that is a good thing.

Two things:

1. By bringing up HCTRA, you give me an idea, I'd like to see the HCTRA and METRO merged. it doesn't make sense to have two separate agencies doing transportation when one would suffice, the 1% sales tax likely wouldn't be necessary at that point, and rather than having two organizations fighting each other (I doubt the HCTRA wants to see government money funding going to a competitor for travels), we'd have one happy family. HCTRA rakes billions and could easily subsidize a very well done infrastructure of public transit.

2. I bet the only way the tata nano is safer for occupants than a motorcycle is that it protects you from wind/rain, and maybe has a heater for the winter.

[TheNiche]

I can give two examples of sprawling cities with great rail systems and high ridership: Mexico City and Delhi, and Delhi's is fairly recent. Saying Houston can't use one is an excuse for those with a political agenda.

Mexico City has 21.2 million people and Delhi has 16.8 million people. You may as well compare them to Lake Jackson as to compare them to Houston. And besides, their population is also much poorer; they do not like it there; they prefer to move here. I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to live there, either.

So you are saying to add more cars to the road. Is global warming not important?

Climate change is impactful, however as a matter of public policy I believe it to be far less important than allowing for global economic development and wealth-creating activities. I say this because developed nations have a population base that plateaus and then begins shrinking. Developed nations with liberalized trade policies instigate fewer wars with other developed nations. Developed nations can afford sustainable lifestyles without literally sacrificing food from their plate. Developed nations have better legal, political, educational, and physical infrastructure, which results in a higher marginal productivity of labor, higher crop yields, more efficient rural land use patterns, and more environmental justice. These factors are critically important because ultimately rural land use patterns will fix or exacerbate any real or perceived CO2 problems. In order to achieve these aims, it is necessary that poor nations be allowed to go through their energy-intensive development phase as a matter of international policy.

What we do with respect to our domestic transportation policy is basically irrelevant by comparison, and it wasn't even that especially important in the scope of our own CO2 output. Driving a car that pollutes less or taking a train is so insignificant that it is mostly just a cathartic exercise. Catharsis is a luxury and should not be subsidized by government.

[Slick Vik]

Mexico City has 21.2 million people and Delhi has 16.8 million people. You may as well compare them to Lake Jackson as to compare them to Houston. And besides, their population is also much poorer; they do not like it there; they prefer to move here. I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to live there, either.

The concept is the same and you ignored my point, and then went off on some other tangent. I would also disagree that everyone in each city wants to move here. particularly Delhi, it's a hopping city. Not good to generalize. Have you been to both cities? I have, multiple times. Great transport works, and people enjoy riding it in opposition to hellish traffic. That's the point, and you can acknowledge it or keep ignoring it, but in this case I know I am right.

[TheNiche]

Two things:

1. By bringing up HCTRA, you give me an idea, I'd like to see the HCTRA and METRO merged. it doesn't make sense to have two separate agencies doing transportation when one would suffice, the 1% sales tax likely wouldn't be necessary at that point, and rather than having two organizations fighting each other (I doubt the HCTRA wants to see government money funding going to a competitor for travels), we'd have one happy family. HCTRA rakes billions and could easily subsidize a very well done infrastructure of public transit.

2. I bet the only way the tata nano is safer for occupants than a motorcycle is that it protects you from wind/rain, and maybe has a heater for the winter.

1. I'll do you one better. I'd like to see every transit agency, road district, rail district, navigation district, port, and public airport merged under a single umbrella agency for the Houston region. The agency would also be tasked with administering inbound funds from federal, state, and local sources, as well as from users. An even-number of board members would be elected according to geographic districts to ensure adequate community-level representation from throughout the region, and a single at-large board member would break ties. The board would appoint an executive director and directors of each division in order to mitigate organizational cronyism, and H-GAC would be tasked with an external audit of all financial, transportation, and environmental studies, as well as the process for developing their 'Major Thoroughfare & Freeway Plan (MTFP)'.

2. Any car with a wheelbase greater than zero is safer than a motorcycle.

[TheNiche]

Great transport works, and people enjoy riding it in opposition to hellish traffic.

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

^ Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

[Slick Vik]

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

^ Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

Would you like to compare Delhi and Mexico City's numbers in terms of new arrivals and tourists against Houston's?

[TGM]

So you are saying to add more cars to the road. Is global warming not important?

It's very important, in fact you could say I'm the biggest proponent of global warming. I made it my life mission to fight global cooling ever since my grade school teachers informed us that we were on the cusp of another ice age. The warmer our winters are the less precious fossil fuels will be needed to heat our homes, which is why we've been burning 500 old tires a week since the late 1970's. Alternative energy is where its at and I encourage everyone to take responsibility and do what they can to prevent global cooling.

More cars on the road equals more tires, and more tires equal more rubber trees. (if you're into heirloom rubber that is) And we now know that trees cause global warming.(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2185493/Could-trees-causing-global-warming-Air-forests-80-000-times-normal-levels-methane.html) We owe a debt of gratitude those those that saved the rain forest for us by planting the next generation of trees.

Edited September 11, 2012 by TGM

[TheNiche]

Would you like to compare Delhi and Mexico City's numbers in terms of new arrivals and tourists against Houston's?

As stated previously, I may as well compare to Lake Jackson. There would be no predictive validity to anything in particular that was being studied.

[MetroMogul]

It's only fair to give Tata Nanas to every individual in the Metro service area, even children.

[luciaphile]

... Developed nations with liberalized trade policies instigate fewer wars with other developed nations...

My eyes passed over that incorrectly the first time, to my great confusion, for some reason substituting "industrialized" for "developed" and missing the liberalized trade policies.

If only we could have a post-industrial do-over of the 20th century with those liberal trade policies in place. Not entirely sure all would be smooth sailing between China and Japan, even so.

Has the post-industrial period been long enough to have that predictive value? Have we reached the end of history? I always read the last page of a book first, so I'm glad to have witnessed it.

I suppose damage to the planet -- or I'll phrase it as a loss of "information" to avoid connoting Romanticism in any way -- is "necessary" to some (particularly economists?), and the horrors of the recent past do furnish a convenient misdirection in discussions of how the world might best modernize, and what's at stake.

Moot, since it will not be up to us, unless we think of some way to influence the process; and we are not torpedoed, from doing so, at home.

[mfastx]

1. I'll do you one better. I'd like to see every transit agency, road district, rail district, navigation district, port, and public airport merged under a single umbrella agency for the Houston region. The agency would also be tasked with administering inbound funds from federal, state, and local sources, as well as from users. An even-number of board members would be elected according to geographic districts to ensure adequate community-level representation from throughout the region, and a single at-large board member would break ties. The board would appoint an executive director and directors of each division in order to mitigate organizational cronyism, and H-GAC would be tasked with an external audit of all financial, transportation, and environmental studies, as well as the process for developing their 'Major Thoroughfare & Freeway Plan (MTFP)'.

I recently went to Scotland and they have one public transportation agency accross the whole country. I think that a state wide transportation agency would be an improvement as well.

[TheNiche]

I think that a state wide transportation agency would be an improvement as well.

No, we already have one and it sucks. I prefer regional control and leadership that is directly accountable to voters.

[Ross]

The benefit is having better public transportation for the city obviously. Having a better functioning city attracts even more people to the region, even if they aren't necessarily living near downtown.

The villages should fund roads through their own taxes.

And no, road work doesn't need to be part of the transit equation actually. While METRO buses run on streets, the voter approved sales tax towards METRO goes towards operating buses, not building roads. Can you give me an example of another city where a public transportation system is responsible for building roads?

Let me ask you, what's the benefit to people living in Houston to fund highways out to outlying areas? Same concept. Creating a better transit system to take more cars off the roads benefits everyone.

So basically, you are saying "Screw you County residents who never come into town. We appreciate your sales tax dollars building this nifty train you will never ride and that doesn't really go to or from anywhere". That's a guarantee that the legislature will get involved, to the detriment of everyone.

And, I think you are also saying "Screw you Memorial Villages. You have lots of money, so pay for your own roads that are mostly used by residents of the City of Houston."

You forget that Metro is a regional entity, not a dedicated Houston transit authority. If the folks in Greater Spring, etc, are going to be contributing money, they deserve some benefit.

[TGM]

I recently went to Scotland and they have one public transportation agency accross the whole country. I think that a state wide transportation agency would be an improvement as well.

Why not start a national one for even greater efficiency?

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/railroads/248763-gop-amtrak-needs-to-get-out-of-the-commuter-rail-business

[mfastx]

So basically, you are saying "Screw you County residents who never come into town. We appreciate your sales tax dollars building this nifty train you will never ride and that doesn't really go to or from anywhere". That's a guarantee that the legislature will get involved, to the detriment of everyone.

And, I think you are also saying "Screw you Memorial Villages. You have lots of money, so pay for your own roads that are mostly used by residents of the City of Houston."

Dude, METRO has spent over a billion building the P&R system, which carries less daily ridership than our one rail line. The proposed line goes between the region's top two employment centers, so I wouldn't say it doesn't go anywhere. We have already been building lines, why hasn't the legislature gotten involved yet? Dallas doesn't have GM payments to my knowledge, I'm sure the legislature will get around to them, lol.

I'm not saying "screw you" to anyone. I just think that cities should pay for their own roads, whether it be Houston or suburban municipalities. There should be a seperate tax going to just streets.

You forget that Metro is a regional entity, not a dedicated Houston transit authority. If the folks in Greater Spring, etc, are going to be contributing money, they deserve some benefit.

No sir, I realize that. I think it's you who are forgetting the billion dollar P&R system, serving a paltry 30,000 boardings a day. Suburbs are already getting benefit, not METRO's fault if they don't use it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't surrounding municipalities free to withdraw from METRO at any time?

You need to understand that buses work better in low ridership areas like the suburbs. Rail is only feasable in higher density and higher ridership areas. Commuter rail is in METRO's plans, and that would serve suburban areas.

The fact is that there is more ridership in the inner core, so that's where METRO is going to spend more money. People in Sealy, TX pay gas taxes just the same as everyone else, but that doesn't mean that they're entitled to a 10 lane highway. Much of their tax money goes to building highways in major cities.

The 2003 referendum dictated 5 rail lines and a large increase in bus service. That's what was voted on and approved. The problem is that METRO doesn't have enough money to implement it. So in order to implement it, I advocate for more funding. If you don't want the 2003 plan implemented, then that's fine.

Edited September 12, 2012 by mfastx

[Ross]

Dude, METRO has spent over a billion building the P&R system, which carries less daily ridership than our one rail line. The proposed line goes between the region's top two employment centers, so I wouldn't say it doesn't go anywhere. We have already been building lines, why hasn't the legislature gotten involved yet? Dallas doesn't have GM payments to my knowledge, I'm sure the legislature will get around to them, lol.

A billion dollars for park and ride? I don't believe that. If you include the cost of the HOV lanes, maybe, but those benefit more than just buses.

[Slick Vik]

A billion dollars for park and ride? I don't believe that. If you include the cost of the HOV lanes, maybe, but those benefit more than just buses.

Who do the HOV lanes benefit? Suburbanites.

[mfastx]

A billion dollars for park and ride? I don't believe that. If you include the cost of the HOV lanes, maybe, but those benefit more than just buses.

HOV lanes, extensive flyovers, elaborite park and ride stations, going out almost every freeway easily costed over a billion dollars. At least according to the METRO board it did. Hell, knowing the METRO board, it probably cost more.

Well METRO fronted the cost for the initial HOV lanes, which support whom? All of those people that live in suburban munincipalities who supposedly don't get any benefit from METRO.

[Ross]

HOV lanes, extensive flyovers, elaborite park and ride stations, going out almost every freeway easily costed over a billion dollars. At least according to the METRO board it did. Hell, knowing the METRO board, it probably cost more.

Well METRO fronted the cost for the initial HOV lanes, which support whom? All of those people that live in suburban munincipalities who supposedly don't get any benefit from METRO.

How many people use the HOV lanes daily? How would a light rail line from the Galleria to UH help the people commuting from Katy, Spring, etc? What should the outlying residents get for their tax money?

[TheNiche]

Well METRO fronted the cost for the initial HOV lanes, which support whom? All of those people that live in suburban munincipalities who supposedly don't get any benefit from METRO.

Let's not fool ourselves. The time savings offered by HOV/P&R is merely an inducement for people to decide to use that infrastructure. The real benefits of carpooling and P&R buses are that there are fewer vehicles on the road in the inner-city neighborhoods where HOV lanes terminate.

The benefits are not just related to an easing up of inner-city congestion, either. A recent survey by the Downtown Houston Management District revealed that nearly half of downtown employees carpool or take mass transit. (Carpooling and transit use was the highest among downtown employees commuting from further than five miles out, so you cannot attribute this to light rail.) On account of that there are fewer downtown employees that are demanding a parking space, the City can ease up on parking requirements for new downtown development and employers are more likely to locate downtown (or will be willing to pay higher rents, thereby justifying more downtown development) because they don't have to issue as many parking vouchers to their employees.

[mfastx]

How many people use the HOV lanes daily? How would a light rail line from the Galleria to UH help the people commuting from Katy, Spring, etc? What should the outlying residents get for their tax money?

Don't know how many cars/non METRO riders the HOV lanes get daily. But I know that nearly 100% of those riders are coming from/going to suburban areas.

It won't, unless they commute via P&R bus and use the light rail as the last leg of their route. Light rail helps out people commuting within the city of Houston, because the fact is that that's where most of the ridership comes from.

Outlying residents should get what they currently have, an good P&R system and METRO commuter bus/rail service. They also get less traffic when they come into town due to the 170+ thousand cars METRO takes off the road daily.

Let's not fool ourselves. The time savings offered by HOV/P&R is merely an inducement for people to decide to use that infrastructure. The real benefits of carpooling and P&R buses are that there are fewer vehicles on the road in the inner-city neighborhoods where HOV lanes terminate.

The benefits are not just related to an easing up of inner-city congestion, either. A recent survey by the Downtown Houston Management District revealed that nearly half of downtown employees carpool or take mass transit. (Carpooling and transit use was the highest among downtown employees commuting from further than five miles out, so you cannot attribute this to light rail.) On account of that there are fewer downtown employees that are demanding a parking space, the City can ease up on parking requirements for new downtown development and employers are more likely to locate downtown (or will be willing to pay higher rents, thereby justifying more downtown development) because they don't have to issue as many parking vouchers to their employees.

Those commuters commuting from over 5 miles out are suburban commuters. That goes against what Ross was saying when he asserted that suburban areas that pay the METRO tax get nothing. The P&R system might have the externalities that you listed, but it's primary purpose when built was to transport suburban commuters into Houston employment centers.

[samagon]

How many people use the HOV lanes daily? How would a light rail line from the Galleria to UH help the people commuting from Katy, Spring, etc? What should the outlying residents get for their tax money?

You get better health because a number of cars are removed from the streets, thereby putting less pollution in our atmosphere.

It's about the same as a single guy like me gets from the portion of property tax I pay that goes to education.

[rsb320]

There will be a service interruption on the Red Line this weekend in order to install tracks for the new line. It will continue to run between Fannin South and DT Transit center. Saturday is supposed to be a ride free day, for Museum Day.

[TheNiche]

Those commuters commuting from over 5 miles out are suburban commuters. That goes against what Ross was saying when he asserted that suburban areas that pay the METRO tax get nothing. The P&R system might have the externalities that you listed, but it's primary purpose when built was to transport suburban commuters into Houston employment centers.

METRO's sole purpose is to exploit positive externalities by providing public goods that the private sector is unable to provide at the same level of quality or quantity. The many are only so willing to subsidize the few because the many shall benefit from it. The few are incidental.

[LTAWACS]

Museum day? Cool.

[rsb320]

Great. I'm now an uglyass, abandoned hotel. Do I have to live with that for another 995 posts?

[LTAWACS]

Yes...

But... I dont see any real difference in those pictures... help?

[ricco67]

In case you didn't realize it by now, but I took a few photos this weekend.

Here is the construction that RSB mentioned, I've been meaning to stop by to get a photo before the area started work on the station there. Any word on the super station yet?

[rsb320]

It seems like I saw barricades on the sidewalk, this morning, near Ziggy's. I'll pay better attention this evening.