2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[memebag]

How is it not equally hypocritical for Obama to preach change then pick a running mate whos been in DC for 25 yrs.

I thought he was just rounding out the ticket, filling in the gaps, so to speak. The same way McCain, who is an experienced, intelligent man, picked an idiot.

[barracuda]

How is it not equally hypocritical for Obama to preach change then pick a running mate whos been in DC for 25 yrs.

..... You wanna call McCain a hypocrite.. fine.. but dont leave out that Obama was the hypocrite first.

and repackaging it as "rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team" doesnt make Obama any less a hypocrite.

That's fine. I can see how both might be viewed as hypocritical when you compare their original themes against their VP picks.

[RedScare]

How is it not equally hypocritical for Obama to preach change then pick a running mate whos been in DC for 25 yrs.

..... You wanna call McCain a hypocrite.. fine.. but dont leave out that Obama was the hypocrite first.

and repackaging it as "rounds out the experience of the Obama/Biden team" doesnt make Obama any less a hypocrite.

Actually, Joe Biden's approach to foreign affairs is a HUGE change from the last 8 years.

[barracuda]

Why do you say that Palin isn't ready to "RUN" the country? I believe she's as ready, if not more so, than other presidents we have had that had even less experience than she does. I definitely think she'd do a better job than Joe Biden would!

Have you ever listened to her talk? How about this little nugget:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec

Edited September 29, 2008 by barracuda

[memebag]

Why do you say that Palin isn't ready to "RUN" the country? I believe she's as ready, if not more so, than other presidents we have had that had even less experience than she does. I definitely think she'd do a better job than Joe Biden would!

That's a very convincing argument. We know she's protected from witchcraft. How many other presidents can make the same claim? Hmmm?

[RedScare]

Why do you say that Palin isn't ready to "RUN" the country? I believe she's as ready, if not more so, than other presidents we have had that had even less experience than she does. I definitely think she'd do a better job than Joe Biden would!

Even ALASKANS disagree with you...

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?arti...p;nav=Namespace

But in Alaska, 43% thought Biden had the background and experience to be President vs. 37% who picked Palin!

[N Judah]

She won't be "running" much of anything as VP if elected, but if she someday becomes Pres I think I'd like her more than I like George W. Bush. I like her whistleblower rep and I think that if she is in over her head she can just consult with someone more experienced.

The bar has been set so low that pretty much anyone can look good. I consider the bar totally cleared (with tens of feet to spare) with this year's crop of candidates.

Edited September 29, 2008 by N Judah

[pineda]

Have you ever listened to her talk? How about this little nugget:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec

Yes, I actually have listened to her talk, and I am quite pleased with what I've heard.

I've also heard Obama & Biden talk, and their list of gaffes is, while quite entertaining, also quite disappointing and alarming. I understand there are whole blog sites dedicated to simply listing all the Obama/Biden gaffes.

I will vote my conscience, as you sure you will vote yours. My choice will be McCain & Palin, and I do not think it's much of a stretch here to guess that you will be voting for Obama/Biden. May the best choice win, for the sake of our country.

[KinkaidAlum]

And the latest Palin goof;

She didn't allow for the police department to pay for rape kits. She fired the police chief who requested them and replaced him with a police chief who claimed he saved Wasilla from $5,000 to $11,000 a year by FORCING RAPE VICTIMS to pay for the kits themselves. This all happened under her watch.

Un-friggin'-believable! Especially considering she has daughters.

[barracuda]

Yes, I actually have listened to her talk, and I am quite pleased with what I've heard.

I find that very disconcerting! If that's the case, I guess she is what America deserves.

Edited September 29, 2008 by barracuda

[pineda]

And the latest Palin goof;

She didn't allow for the police department to pay for rape kits. She fired the police chief who requested them and replaced him with a police chief who claimed he saved Wasilla from $5,000 to $11,000 a year by FORCING RAPE VICTIMS to pay for the kits themselves. This all happened under her watch.

Un-friggin'-believable! Especially considering she has daughters.

Palin and the Rape Kit myth disproved

Not that I actually believe for one minute that giving you this information will instantly make you change your opinion and vote for McCain and Palin, but here it is anyway, in case anyone else out there stumbles upon this myth.

[sarahiki]

Palin and the Rape Kit myth disproved

Not that I actually believe for one minute that giving you this information will instantly make you change your opinion and vote for McCain and Palin, but here it is anyway, in case anyone else out there stumbles upon this myth.

I read the link carefully, and it doesn't disprove anything. It doesn't SAY anything. It is all fluff, and attack against the so-called liberal media. It's not a myth, it is the truth that that was the policy while Palin was mayor of that town.

[RedScare]

Palin and the Rape Kit myth disproved

Not that I actually believe for one minute that giving you this information will instantly make you change your opinion and vote for McCain and Palin, but here it is anyway, in case anyone else out there stumbles upon this myth.

Not that this issue has even a miniscule amount to do with her qualifications, but as sarahiki says, the blog does not disprove anything. In fact, it appears to PROVE it! I know a little bit about crime investigation and rape kits. It is customary for the police to pay for evidence gathering. I have NEVER been involved in a situation where it would even be SUGGESTED to bill a victim for a rape kit, much less actually do so.

In Texas, at least, there ARE provisions in the law to require defendants to reimburse the county or city for costs associated with fighting crime. Nowhere have I ever seen that this would shift the burden of paying for crime investigation from the government to the victim.

Again, this so far down the list of reasons Palin is unqulified that it is not even on my list.

[pineda]

Not that this issue has even a miniscule amount to do with her qualifications, but as sarahiki says, the blog does not disprove anything. In fact, it appears to PROVE it! I know a little bit about crime investigation and rape kits. It is customary for the police to pay for evidence gathering. I have NEVER been involved in a situation where it would even be SUGGESTED to bill a victim for a rape kit, much less actually do so.

In Texas, at least, there ARE provisions in the law to require defendants to reimburse the county or city for costs associated with fighting crime. Nowhere have I ever seen that this would shift the burden of paying for crime investigation from the government to the victim.

Again, this so far down the list of reasons Palin is unqulified that it is not even on my list.

more on the Palin rape kit myth for those of us who aren't as smart as RedScare when it comes to such things

[KinkaidAlum]

Linking to websites like redstate.com and townhall.com doesn't disprove anything.

The ONLY thing that would clear this up would be a direct Q and A with Palin herself. Of course, that isn't allowed.

So, until the NY Times, Associated Press, USA Today, and Washington Monthly pieces are retracted, I will tend to believe them over a right wing blog.

And, while I don't often disagree with Redscare, I'd say this might be a big issue to many women and victim's rights advocates. This is an important issue and Palin SHOULD speak about it and disprove it if she can.

[20thStDad]

I was pretty sure I was a republican, then one day a coworker pointed me to the town hall website. Waaaayyy too much kool-aid being served there. Throw in a couple of uber-republican radio hacks and that sealed the deal. Not saying I'm a democrat at all though. Very much independent, and prefer to put some thought into every choice instead of having my party tell me what I think about things.

So far my plan is to hack into the voting machine and vote for McCain-Biden. If only it were that easy.

[pineda]

Linking to websites like redstate.com and townhall.com doesn't disprove anything.

The ONLY thing that would clear this up would be a direct Q and A with Palin herself. Of course, that isn't allowed.

So, until the NY Times, Associated Press, USA Today, and Washington Monthly pieces are retracted, I will tend to believe them over a right wing blog.

And, while I don't often disagree with Redscare, I'd say this might be a big issue to many women and victim's rights advocates. This is an important issue and Palin SHOULD speak about it and disprove it if she can.

Agreed, it's a very important issue and I've read enough on it today that I'm satisfied with Palin's answers.

What's much more troubling to me is the constant talk about ACORN and Obama; it just won't go away.

That's an issue that I'd really appreciate hearing Obama discuss at length.

[RedScare]

What's much more troubling to me is the constant talk about ACORN and Obama; it just won't go away.

That's an issue that I'd really appreciate hearing Obama discuss at length.

So troubling that I've never heard of it. Possibly because I've been watching CNBC all day, and they just weren't interested in discussing Obama and ACORN today.

[sarahiki]

Here's my new favorite song. It's a love song for Sarah Palin:

[pineda]

So troubling that I've never heard of it. Possibly because I've been watching CNBC all day, and they just weren't interested in discussing Obama and ACORN today.

Red, I said it was troubling to me. I didn't really expect it to trouble you.

good explanation of Obama and ACORN connections for others who might care to read it

[KinkaidAlum]

Ah, looks like ACORN will be this year's fetus/gay marriage/illegal immigrant/Willie Horton/insert scapegoat here

I used to volunteer for ACORN back in grad school. If you are afraid of ACORN or think they have more power than Wall Street Lobbyists to affect legislation, then there is NO hope for you.

I mean, how dare people organize at the local level for things like worker's rights, equal pay, adequate housing, and health care reform. The nerve of those (largely) poor people. They're so uppity!

http://www.acorn.org

The real reason the Republicans HATE Acorn is because they help educate people and register them to vote. God forbid we have more people participating in our Democracy...

Edited September 30, 2008 by KinkaidAlum

[Mark F. Barnes]

Ah, looks like ACORN will be this year's fetus/gay marriage/illegal immigrant/Willie Horton/insert scapegoat here

I used to volunteer for ACORN back in grad school. If you are afraid of ACORN or think they have more power than Wall Street Lobbyists to affect legislation, then there is NO hope for you.

I mean, how dare people organize at the local level for things like worker's rights, equal pay, adequate housing, and health care reform. The nerve of those (largely) poor people. They're so uppity!

http://www.acorn.org

The real reason the Republicans HATE Acorn is because they help educate people and register them to vote. God forbid we have more people participating in our Democracy...

I'm thinking it's the voter fraud conviction within ACORN that is front page right now. It's great to register people to vote, just not register them 4 different times in different precincts to pad the ballot box.

"ACORN routinely says it will clean up its act. Yet, given its decade-long history of voter fraud, embezzlement, and misuses of taxpayer funds, ACORN's pattern of fraud can no longer be dismissed as a series of 'unfortunate events."

LINK

[pineda]

more on ACORN and the fraud and scandals surrounding this organization

[KinkaidAlum]

Red, I said it was troubling to me. I didn't really expect it to trouble you.

good explanation of Obama and ACORN connections for others who might care to read it

I read your link. I want my 5 minutes back.

That was complete garbage.

[KinkaidAlum]

I'm thinking it's the voter fraud conviction within ACORN that is front page right now. It's great to register people to vote, just not register them 4 different times in different precincts to pad the ballot box.

LINK

Voter fraud is a terrible thing. If ACORN did these things, rather than a few individuals, then I will be completely disappointed.

It's also nice to see so many Republicans concerned about voter fraud. That gives me hope that 2008 wont just be brushed aside like 2000 and 2004. I read yours, will you read mine?

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/104...election_stolen

These aren't just charges in this article. They describe what actually happened in 2004. The worst part is, I am really good friends with the daughter of a Houston man mentioned in this article for his part in the intimidation scandal in Ohio. I didn't know this until right now.

[pineda]

Interesting article, and I won't insult you by asking for "my five minutes back" either.

The serious concerns surrounding ACORN are directly tied to Barack Obama, whether you choose to see it or not.

John McCain had nothing to do with your case of alleged voter fraud in the 2000 or 2004 elections.

Apples to oranges. BTW, sorry about your friend.

Edited September 30, 2008 by pineda

[KinkaidAlum]

Interesting article, and I won't insult you by asking for "my five minutes back" either.

The serious concerns surrounding ACORN are directly tied to Barack Obama, whether you choose to see it or not.

John McCain had nothing to do with your case of alleged voter fraud in the 2000 or 2004 elections.

Apples to oranges. BTW, sorry about your friend.

Yes, they are apples and oranges.

One is a charge that has NOT been confirmed of some improper voter registration drives taken by Acorn. While Acorn is certainly left-leaning, they are NOT affiliated officially with any party.

Another is WIDESPREAD voter fraud that included ballot switching, ballot stuffing, voter intimidation, illegal caging, thousands of uncounted ballots, lack of provisional ballots, race-based decisions on where and where not to place voting machines, turning people away from the polls illegally, and even FALSE REPORTS OF TERRORIST ACTIVITIES so that ballot counts wouldn't have to take place in the open. These were all undertaken by either Republican elected officials, Bush activists, and even the Republican National Committee.

What you posted and what I posted don't even come close to being equal. Now, if ACORN is able to somehow get their registered voters' collective votes counted four times, then maybe you'd be on to something...

The last election was a total scam. The fAct that it wasn't reported on and the average Joe doesn't seem to care gives me little hope for 2008. I seriously think McCain will win the results due to much of the same tactics. Ohio is already up to her old tricks already. Just google Ohio voter purge and see what comes up.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Yes, they are apples and oranges.

One is a charge that has NOT been confirmed of some improper voter registration drives taken by Acorn. While Acorn is certainly left-leaning, they are NOT affiliated officially with any party.

Another is WIDESPREAD voter fraud that included ballot switching, ballot stuffing, voter intimidation, illegal caging, thousands of uncounted ballots, lack of provisional ballots, race-based decisions on where and where not to place voting machines, turning people away from the polls illegally, and even FALSE REPORTS OF TERRORIST ACTIVITIES so that ballot counts wouldn't have to take place in the open. These were all undertaken by either Republican elected officials, Bush activists, and even the Republican National Committee.

What you posted and what I posted don't even come close to being equal. Now, if ACORN is able to somehow get their registered voters' collective votes counted four times, then maybe you'd be on to something...

The last election was a total scam. The fAct that it wasn't reported on and the average Joe doesn't seem to care gives me little hope for 2008. I seriously think McCain will win the results due to much of the same tactics. Ohio is already up to her old tricks already. Just google Ohio voter purge and see what comes up.

Actually Kink they are more than "charges" now, they are convictions, they plead guilty a couple of days ago in a plea bargain agreement. That's one of the reasons for all the hoopla. And come on "Rolling Stone"? Written by Bobby Kennedy's kid? Michael Moore might as well wrote the damn thing. Does the, oh my god, "Kennedy" name give it some kind of golden legitamecy? You sure don't want to mention the Kennedy name and Voter Fraud in the same sentence. 1960 ring any bells? But let's not dwell on History, the thread is on 2008.

[barracuda]

Actually Kink they are more than "charges" now, they are convictions, they plead guilty a couple of days ago in a plea bargain agreement. That's one of the reasons for all the hoopla. And come on "Rolling Stone"? Written by Bobby Kennedy's kid? Michael Moore might as well wrote the damn thing. Does the, oh my god, "Kennedy" name give it some kind of golden legitamecy? You sure don't want to mention the Kennedy name and Voter Fraud in the same sentence. 1960 ring any bells? But let's not dwell on History, the thread is on 2008.

You may dislike the author or disagree with the tone of the article, but that doesn't mean it's false. From what I can see, it's a very comprehensive article based on a good deal of research. If you can dispute the 74 references at the bottom of the article, then kudos to you.

Same thing with Michael Moore. I know a lot of people who dislike his style, tactics, and his attack-dog personality, but that doesn't mean he's incorrect or should not be taken seriously. He at least does his research to back up his arguments.

[Mark F. Barnes]

No you didn't just actually give Michael Moore some credibility did you? 'Cuda, I really enjoy jousting with you, and you have a lot of really valid points, but please don't go there and save some self respect. I love ya man, but not enough to buy that lemon.