musicman Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Fault in place or not the rail was obviously in motion leaving the station.Here's a still of the light + cyclist: sevfiv for police chief! Rules of METRORailStop Obey all warning signs: flashing lights, signals and crossing gates. Police will issue tickets to violators. when human factors are introduced, you never know what can happen. from the photo the lrt operator is at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 After looking at that photo, and the video again, it's really surprising that she was even able to get in front of the train in time to get hit. If she was one nanosecond slower she would have hit the side of the train.I wonder if the pedestrian signal said it was safe to cross.LRV operators are not permitted to pass a horizontal STOP bar without explicit permission from METRORail Control.I also wonder if the operator had explicit permission to cross the horizontal stop bar, or it was an error.Either way, this just proves that its a good idea to look before you cross regardless of the signals. I see cars running red lights every day, as well as cars turning right into the street where it says pedestrians can safely cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Metro says accident that injured bicyclist preventableA passenger on the light rail train that struck and injured a bicyclist Friday near the Texas Medical Center says the operator did not sound a horn or apply the brakes before the collision.A video of the accident, taken from cameras on the train and released by the Metropolitan Transit Authority, shows the track signal displaying a horizontal line, which means the operator is not to proceed. Metro released a statement Monday saying the accident was "preventable" and that investigation is continuing.The Chronicle has filed an open records request for the identities of the cyclist and the train operator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Here's a still of the light + cyclist: If you watch the video and look for the light, you'll also notice the bar doesnt "just change".... it is solid horizontal for the entire length of the video. Yes, this girl should have looked both way, even if she had a walk signal. But.. this appears to be 100% Metro's fault for proceeding when it wasn't supposed to. As much as we're all Raw Raw rail.. and Darwin this Darwin That to any poor shlub that gets run over. I think this is a case of Metro effin' up. If his were a normal crosswalk and a average car or bus running a red light striking a pedestrian that has the right of way, we woudln't think twice about assigning blame. Yes, any pedestrian should look both ways when crossing the street... but if you have a "green walk now" sign, its reasonable to assume its safe to walk. I'm Raw Raw rail too... but the rail driver, if officially found at fault, needs to be sacked.. and anyone that continues the party line that "Metro can do no wrong in any of these collisions" should check themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 It is also obvious that the cars were not moving at the time, which probably means that the walk sign is up. So I am guessing that she thought she was safe to cross the entire street. That being said. I cross Main Street every day, and I stop and look both ways on the street and the metro rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Here is the video broken down frame by frame. It appears she came all the way across the street, the opposing traffic is stopped. In fact a lady in a white shirt and black dress pants walked in front of the train, prior to the cyclist crossing in front of the train. The horizontal line appears to be displayed the entire time. It also shows she never looked up as she crossed the street. And the Houston Cop standing there never made any attempt to stop her either. We are only talking about 3 seconds time but it is what it is. The train driver may get the fault here. I'll let the evidence speak for itself. We'll just haveto wait and see about how this one turns out. Either way it's human error, the train system itself is still a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 There may be an issue raised on the cyclist "riding" in a pedestrian crosswalk. There is a gray area in the Section 551 about whether or not it's prohibited or only reccomended. If you think about growing up, in school you were tought to walk your bike across the crosswalk. Interesting......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddleman Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 She's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I guess the fact that somebody else crossed the street in front of the moving train could mean that the walk signal was up, or it could mean that this person was also crossing when he was not supposed to. In the article, the witness says,"I could hear her radio come on and say, 'This is central control. You can now proceed with caution,' " he said.I guess that answers our question about the horizontal bar. It said the trains are allowed to pass a horizontal bar as long as they have permission from "Central Control". Doesn't sound like the driver proceeded with caution though.Sounds like we have a stupid driver and a stupid cyclist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Owl Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5535446.htmlLooks like Metro is now saying that the accident could have been prevented (by them)A lot of people on this forum are obviously extremely pro-rail and I feel that it clouds their judgment and ability to reason around some of the safety issues at play here. I'm not anti-rail, but I feel that commuter rail is far, far more needed in Houston than the light rail. On top of that, the light rail was not designed well from a safety point of view, as evidenced by the absurd number of incidents that have occured since it opened. To Metro's credit, the red warning strips on the crosswalks are a big help to drivers to keep them from running through intersections, so they are taking steps in the right direction, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 In the article, the witness says,I guess that answers our question about the horizontal bar. It said the trains are allowed to pass a horizontal bar as long as they have permission from "Central Control". Doesn't sound like the driver proceeded with caution though.Sounds like we have a stupid driver and a stupid cyclist.I disagree.. you took that sentence out of context.'This is central control. You can now proceed with caution,' was in response to the clearing of traffic ahead in the line. It sounds more like an 'all clear' type message for the state of the entire line.There is no indication that that quote was in reference to this one driver was being given the clear to go through this one intersection and break the horizontal bar rule.If the driver interpreted that radio transmission as such, then it speaks to the inadequate training.Vance said another light rail accident had occurred earlier in the day and slowed the trip from downtown to the Memorial Hermann Hospital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsets Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What a mess. That poor cyclist. I cross that intersection twice a day, either on a bike on on foot. It's probably one of the most dangerous inside the Loop. There are the trains, two lanes of traffic in both directions, plus the shared train/left turn lanes which have really bizarre signal timing. There are buses, and lots and lots of confused, lost drivers that suddenly slam on the brakes or make illegal left turns. There are several parking garage entrances and exits. Add lots and lots of pedestrians, many of whom are also lost/confused/disabled and I'm really surprised there aren't more incidents.In my experience, the trains almost always honk the horn or ring the bell before they move off. If this operator didn't provide some audible signal AND he ran his "stop light" he deserves all the blame. I'm also pretty sure that's a "countdown" walk signal at that crosswalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thread title should be changed, because the person didn't die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I disagree.. you took that sentence out of context.I thought the situation was the following:There was another accident, the train was stopped. The the driver got the "all clear" from central command and put the train into full throttle. Technically the driver is allowed to pass the signal as long as he gets permission from the central command (LRV operators are not permitted to pass a horizontal STOP bar without explicit permission from METRORail Control). And then the cyclist rode in front of the train and clearly there was no way the driver could have seen her or stopped in time.Maybe I misinterpreted it, but I didn't mean to take anything out of context. The real question is: was the pedestrian signal telling her it was all clear to cross? And did the driver have permission to go through the signal? Without knowing those answers, we can't really do much but speculate based on the information we have from the article and the video. And I don't think this says much about the inherent safety of the rail system.On top of that, the light rail was not designed well from a safety point of view, as evidenced by the absurd number of incidents that have occured since it openedTo me, that's like saying highway 59 isn't designed well form a safety point of view, as evidenced by the absurd number of incidents that have occurred since it opened (probably more than the Metro Rail). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Owl Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 To me, that's like saying highway 59 isn't designed well form a safety point of view, as evidenced by the absurd number of incidents that have occurred since it opened (probably more than the Metro Rail)....it's all relative...can you not deny that Metro Rail has had more accidents than similar systems of its size and type across the country? I'm not aware of HWY 59 having more accidents than other freeways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 can you not deny that Metro Rail has had more accidents than similar systems of its size and type across the countryI'm not denying that, I'm saying the reason there are so many accidents is possibly because so many of the drivers here are unsafe, not because the light rail is unsafe. Most of the light rail accidents seem to be due to the fact that people are not checking their mirrors before they turn across the tracks, and running red lights. That's not the fault of the light rail system. I am only guessing that drivers here are less safe than in other cities with light rail systems, but I could be wrong. I'd like to see some real stats on metro rail accidents and regular traffic accidents, if anybody has got any.Here's a video of some crashes (it's not a substitute for some real data, but it's interesting anyways).(can somebody help me embed this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 embed with [ youtube ]...[ /youtube ] where ... = the video IDor use "Insert Special Item" drop down menu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Some free advice for everyone... when crossing roads or train tracks... LOOK BOTH WAYS... this will help keep you from getting hit by moving cars and trains. It's really not that difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidegate Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 how could she miss that HUGE thing sitting there? Either this was a suicide attempt or I suggest she get her peripheral vision checked out, cos it is evidently awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The cyclist obivously bears some responsibility. What sane person steps or rides into a crosswalk without looking? For that matter, what sane person guns it on the green light without looking?However, I think the fact that the Metro operator disregarded the signal is very, very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'm guessing that she had a Walk signal in the crosswalk and was paying more attention to the pedestrians nearby. Probably didn't think the train was a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I agree with CDeb, she has some responsibility to her own safety. Trains just don't teleport in front of you and you never know what's going to happen to a car thats on line. The driver's foot could slip off the break, mistake a distant green for their own green, the car gets rear ended and pushed forward, or whatever. I've seen all of these things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Owl Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Some of you guys are awfully quick to dismiss the white bar that the Metro operator had, as well as the first hand account from the Metro passenger (see the Chronicle article). Just because you're pro-rail doesn't mean you can't fault Metro here, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 we are (or at least I'm not) dismissing Rail operator's fault in all this. I'm just saying where is the common sense with people these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 For that matter, what sane person guns it on the green light without looking?what sane person goes when the light indicates not to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 what sane person goes when the light indicates not to? I didn't absolve the operator of responsibility. Maybe I should have used stronger language (in case "very, very bad" is ambiguous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo58 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I can't see how anyone could put the blame on the train. hey that sounds like a good song title "blame it on the train". Maybe tomorrow I'll mess around a little on Metros new theme song. You never know, I might make a few bucks off of it. That's an excellent idea. Some good titles : Trampled under rail Another One bites the Dust Midnight train to Hell and Back How about a few rails? Boxcar Willie The little train that could...kill to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidegate Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...Mystery train...There's defensive driving, there should also be defensive pedestrianism (or whatever the appropriate word is). Just as I assume when I'm in my car that everyone around me is a moron, I assume the same when I'm walking or cycling, and try to be smart and forward looking for drivers. A lot of times I don't need to be, since there are many conscientious, courteous drivers in this city. But I do it all the same, doesn't cost me but a second or two each time I do it. And I don't intend to come across complacent - one's next accident is always just around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...Mystery train...Anybody here ever see that movie? Directed by Jim Jarmusch with Joe Strummer and Steve Buscemi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo58 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What about Trainspotting or I shot the Train and the Train won? Metro Rail Station 6-5000 The metro-rail that ate Houston could go on & on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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