TheNiche Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 That picture has 4 new residential buildings, a new stadium, an expansion to the GRB, and a new convention center hotel all in a 5-7 block area. Even if downtown were to add 4 new residential buildings, I would be surprised if they are all along Crawford between the park and MMP. Add that to the current state of the economy, which will most likely wipe out any thought of new residential development downtown in the next 5 years, not to mention compelely alter the development environment in America. I don't expect Miami and Vegas like development anymore, especially not in Houston And don't forget that when Houston grows, it grows all over the place at a realistic and steady pace. It may sound pessimistic to some of you, but maybe I've just learned not to set unrealistic expectations. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a negative nancy.Actually, if the office leasing market turns sour (which it seems is already happening), then land prices may revert to a level reflecting that residential is the highest and best use of many sites. This was the case as recently as about 2005. The only real barrier to further residential development at that point would be capital markets. And if Finger's project does particularly well, then you might see similar copycat projects in the same area.Condos aren't the least bit likely, so I concur with your assessment of Miami/Vegas-style development. I can't imagine that new residential development downtown will be anything excpt rental apartment units...with possibly a few really high-dollar townhomes on the far peripheries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Has anyone else noticed what looks to be a gigantic beach type pool on top of the convention hotel?I had noticed that "blob" too. I wouldn't make too much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 There are two empty blocks to the south. The bigger constraint is available hotel rooms for attendees. The GRB is already large enough to handle all but the top 5 or so conventions. With the recession shrinking attendance, they could probably handle all but the biggest 1 or 2...IF they had the hotel rooms.Of course, you could go to Reliant, which has 50% more exhibit space than GRB, and more than every city except Las Vegas, Orlando and Chicago.Yeah, I'm aware of the two blocks to the south. But those blocks are not as deep as the current structure, I don't think and don't really allow for a very significant expansion... plus how LONG can you reasonably make the building? Not a big concern and certainly not on the short-term list, but I suspect when they built the Albert Thomas Convention Center they never thought they would need room to expand it, either... Clearly, the concern at this time is hotel space. Again, I am talking about long-term... at least 10, probably 20-30 years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Has anyone else noticed what looks to be a gigantic beach type pool on top of the convention hotel?I noticed trees and outdoor space, and in looking closer, see what looks like a pool. As I said previously, why does this area turn its back on DG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtsig Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I had noticed that "blob" too. I wouldn't make too much of it.or that the exterior design of the new convention hotel is actually very similar to the hilton? i wouldn't put much stock in this particular rendering... seems to be more of a placeholder than an actual design.and anyone who thinks it will be 2040 or 2050 before we see a handful of residential towers, a new hotel, and a soccer stadium is out of their mind.... hell, i will guarantee that most of those go up by 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 why does this area turn its back on DG?what do you mean? Are you saying if there is an outdoor area on the hotel that it should be on the side of DG?or that the exterior design of the new convention hotel is actually very similar to the hilton? i wouldn't put much stock in this particular rendering... seems to be more of a placeholder than an actual design.It is similar, but different enough IMO. I'm guessing it's most likely a place holder as well, especially since the design is so similar. It's fun to speculate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I noticed trees and outdoor space, and in looking closer, see what looks like a pool. As I said previously, why does this area turn its back on DG?Actually, I'm not sure it really makes much difference. Think about it... the pool area of that design is probably at least six stories high. For people out around the pool, the only way they would see anything of Discovery Green from there would be if they went and stood at the edge and looked down over the railing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Actually, I'm not sure it really makes much difference. Think about it... the pool area of that design is probably at least six stories high. For people out around the pool, the only way they would see anything of Discovery Green from there would be if they went and stood at the edge and looked down over the railing.That's where I'd be, with my cocktail, looking down at the park to see the remote boats, ice skaters and people watching (stalking), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Because they can charge more for a room with a view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo58 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As you drive into downtown from 288 this building looks Grand! The gables add a touch of real class & elegance! Now we look way more cosmopolitan and modern, people. High five to the architects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As you drive into downtown from 288 this building looks Grand! The gables add a touch of real class & elegance! Now we look way more cosmopolitan and modern, people. High five to the architects! Wait, which building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Wait, which building? I think he was talking about OPP. . . ya you know me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As you drive into downtown from 288 this building looks Grand! The gables add a touch of real class & elegance! Now we look way more cosmopolitan and modern, people. High five to the architects! I hereby declare us all.. a civilized people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I hope the Skinny-Rectangle buildings come to life. I'm more a fan of those then all the rest around Discovery Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suite8F Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 There has been a lot of discussion about the rooftop pool, but I would like to point out that I am not aware of any Embassy Suites with an outdoor pool. So, perhaps it will be an indoor rooftop pool (like the Hilton-Americas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wernicke Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/Is it on hold? The Chronicle article about the developer securing financing in a difficult climate was only about 3 weeks ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ughSeriously, enough with your ughs. You need some happiness in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I hope this one doesn't suffer the same fate as our friends in Uptown (ie. High Street, Turnberry, Titan, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Is it on hold? The Chronicle article about the developer securing financing in a difficult climate was only about 3 weeks ago...Yes you are correct. I forgot all about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolitherland Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 photo from yesterday overlain with the projects that will hopefully be going up around DG. I can only hope that this tower is not on hold. But who knows, maybe if this tower craps out we can get something better and taller! Woot! darker blue is the Embassy Suites, green is the future site of the Dynamo stadium, the brown is the La Quinta, the purple is hopefully going to be the new convention center hotel, the others are obviously Discovery Tower and OPP. Im sure everyone on here already knew this stuff but whatever, thought Id post it anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.All planing aside, Houston lucked out with a phenomenal skyline. Everyone is envious of Austin, but that's b/c they're finally growing up. I was in Dallas just this weekend, and even with the massive impact of Victory growing right beside it, there's just no comparison. Houston has the biggest, boldest skylines in the state of Texas... hands down. C) I love this city. It's certainly far from perfect, but the variety and diversity of Houston... whether we're discussing its architecture, its people, or its food... is just world-class. No other Texas city can claim this. I like Dallas alright, but do you know how long you have to drive around that place to find a continuous collection of black people? Hispanics? It's just shameful the way they hide their ghettos from the world like that. Edited January 6, 2009 by strickn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasVines Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone. I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons. yes because our heads will hurt for many moons from reading your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhlaw09 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Following up on a previous discussion about development around DG, here is a more-detailed map that labels the buildings in the renderings below and adds proposed East Line rail routes (including the renderings again for convenience): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.TXVines, I'm not sure what feeling that emoticon meant to put on your sentence, but if posts of more than a paragraph or comments without indents are a problem, maybe we should display them two or three inches wide, like newspaper columns; no one is chapped by those. When my tone is unhelpful and my writing bad communication, I'm sorry, but I still ask you to go ahead and cherry-pick things one by one that help you in thinking about Texas and metropolitan life. As long as you do that, they are more important than a sequence of points or any winning remarks. Edited January 6, 2009 by strickn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.OMG, are you still clinging to that nonsense? The park is successful. Additional hotels and RESIDENTIAL structures in the immediate vicinity will only add to the success. A lot of people seem to be finding their way to and from the park, even though it does not happen to be on their way to somewhere else. Where did you come up with the idea that a park has to be on someone's path, rather than a destination? Bryant Park, Millennium Park, or for that matter, Central Park, Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Forest Park in St. Louis, or Grant Park in Chicago are successful almost entirely because they are great destinations, not because they happen to catch someone's eye while they are out for a stroll. How does it possibly matter whether Houston residents leave the park the same way they came in? (FWIW, I have been to the park quite a few times and have never left the same way I came in. Contrary to your assertions in earlier posts, there are many entry and exit points. It sounds like maybe you should actually go see the park sometime...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have to agree. I was just at the park on Saturday and it was busy as always. Though the ice was closed until 4 PM because of the "unseasonably warm weather" (hahaha, no, pretty much standard for the season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 yes because our heads will hurt for many moons from reading your post Really? LOL!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.Yeah, your post kinda confused me too, but I think that planners are working harder to provide mixed-use options in and near Discovery Green. It may not end up like a perfectly segmented block of Uptown Dallas, but the retail allotments in downtown are definitely getting better. But hey, why would we want to be Dallas??? In Houston we like our planning the way we like our music... CHOPPED and SCREWED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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