Houston Gets A Subway?

[musicman]

Where's the Chronicle story?

Oh, right...didn't the NYT scoop the Chron on the Enron story too?

notice the date IN the story

Published: December 28, 1982

[Montrose1100]

Don't forget the Monorail proposals... I have all 32 pages saved on my computer. It was an interesting plan, but I never knew about the subway.

[dalparadise]

notice the date IN the story

Published: December 28, 1982

SNAP!

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I didnt know they ever proposed a subway.

[ssullivan]

Yep, this is from the original rail transit proposal put forth by Metro in the early 1908s. It was a hugely expensive system, and overwhelmingly shot down when it was put in front of the voters for approval. This was only about three years into Metro's existence. The monorail proposal came nearly ten years later.

[citykid09]

Yep, this is from the original rail transit proposal put forth by Metro in the early 1908s. It was a hugely expensive system, and overwhelmingly shot down when it was put in front of the voters for approval. This was only about three years into Metro's existence. The monorail proposal came nearly ten years later.

If its so expensive, how where other cities able to do systems like this?

[TheNiche]

If its so expensive, how where other cities able to do systems like this?

Our soil is waterlogged at a relatively shallow depth. Most cities don't have that problem.

[ssullivan]

If its so expensive, how where other cities able to do systems like this?

And in the early 1980s, there weren't as many cities trying to compete for federal dollars for transit systems. This proposal also came out less than a decade after similar systems opened or started construction in San Francisco (BART), DC, and Atlanta.

Since then, almost all new urban rail transit systems in this country have been based on light rail, and most of it running at-grade.

[Guest Plastic]

SUbwats are expesnisive nad very difficult to construct. Thee'll be all kind so ftraffic nightmares as construction's going on. THen we've got to worry about tunnels. THere's the problem of tunnels being in the way. If they are we'll have to dig really deep.

If we do this then we might as well build a central transit center Downtown.

[west20th]

SUbwats are expesnisive nad very difficult to construct. Thee'll be all kind so ftraffic nightmares as construction's going on. THen we've got to worry about tunnels. THere's the problem of tunnels being in the way. If they are we'll have to dig really deep.

Classic!

[RedScare]

Yep, this is from the original rail transit proposal put forth by Metro in the early 1908s. It was a hugely expensive system, and overwhelmingly shot down when it was put in front of the voters for approval. This was only about three years into Metro's existence. The monorail proposal came nearly ten years later.

I was here for that vote. Look at the numbers. $1.8 billion for 18 miles, in 1982 dollars! That is the equivalent of $3.64 Billion today, $200 million per mile.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Our soil is waterlogged at a relatively shallow depth. Most cities don't have that problem.

Very true and that would indeed make it an unattractive costly option

[houstonsemipro]

This old news. Back in 1992. Next!

[Gary]

SUbwats are expesnisive nad very difficult to construct. Thee'll be all kind so ftraffic nightmares as construction's going on. THen we've got to worry about tunnels. THere's the problem of tunnels being in the way. If they are we'll have to dig really deep.

If we do this then we might as well build a central transit center Downtown.

That was awesome!

[Guest Plastic]

What was odd about it?

[TheNiche]

What was odd about it?

SUbwats

expesnisive

nad

Thee'll

so (instead of "of")

ftraffic

THen

THere's

[AftonAg]

What was odd about it?

Get used to it Plastic - If you post on here look forward to having your posts dissected for spelling, grammar and punctuation. Makes one wonder what their motto is - "Live to Post, Post to live" maybe?

Our soil is waterlogged at a relatively shallow depth. Most cities don't have that problem.

Actually most of the soil along the Gulf coast is comprised of Montmorilonite Clay. It is actually quite amazing material and if completely dry it can absorb 113% of it's dry volume in water. It is also the principle reason that so many of the old houses in Houston have foundation problems. It expands during the wet cycles putting enormous pressure on foundations and causing them to crack. It is also not great for excavating because when a trench is opened the water evaporates out of the clay resulting in sloughing off of the sides (unless the excavation is stepped properly or the sides are at a roughly 45 degree angle. Shoring or Piling is required in all vertical excavations in this area for safety reasons. Many Construction workers have died in excavations in and around Houston.

[Gary]

Get used to it Plastic - If you post on here look forward to having your posts dissected for spelling, grammar and punctuation. Makes one wonder what their motto is - "Live to Post, Post to live" maybe?

If we're so bad, why do you continue to post on the forum? Maybe your a little defensive after losing argument after argument regarding the LRT down Richmond.

[AftonAg]

If we're so bad, why do you continue to post on the forum? Maybe your a little defensive after losing argument after argument regarding the LRT down Richmond.

I didn't say everyone on the forum was bad Gary, I merely made an observation supported by my own experience and the very post I replied to. As far as I am concerned I have not "lost" any arguments. If what you really meant to say was that I have still not conceded to the Railroading of Richmond Faction then you are correct. Last night when I drove down Richmond I noticed that all of the "No Rail on Richmond" signs were still in place so apparently that argument is still very much alive and not "lost" as you say.

[Gary]

I didn't say everyone on the forum was bad Gary, I merely made an observation supported by my own experience and the very post I replied to. As far as I am concerned I have not "lost" any arguments. If what you really meant to say was that I have still not conceded to the Railroading of Richmond Faction then you are correct. Last night when I drove down Richmond I noticed that all of the "No Rail on Richmond" signs were still in place so apparently that argument is still very much alive and not "lost" as you say.

Of course it's alive on Richmond as your tiny faction continues it's attempt to derail what's best for the city.

As far as your "I didn't say everyone on the forum was bad" comment, you might as well have as we've all taken potshots at our beloved Plastic.

[CE_ugh]

Maybe we should build a subway down richmond.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

Plastic, i will not make fun of you ONLY because you are from the NorthShore area

[Guest Plastic]

Plastic, i will not make fun of you ONLY because you are from the NorthShore area

I don't liek ti out here I'm gonna move soon.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

yeah, i was also thinking of moving eventually......my commute to UH Main takes me about 30 minutes...but since i am a student, gas prices can be harsh on my pocketbook

[TheNiche]

Actually most of the soil along the Gulf coast is comprised of Montmorilonite Clay. It is actually quite amazing material and if completely dry it can absorb 113% of it's dry volume in water. It is also the principle reason that so many of the old houses in Houston have foundation problems. It expands during the wet cycles putting enormous pressure on foundations and causing them to crack. It is also not great for excavating because when a trench is opened the water evaporates out of the clay resulting in sloughing off of the sides (unless the excavation is stepped properly or the sides are at a roughly 45 degree angle. Shoring or Piling is required in all vertical excavations in this area for safety reasons. Many Construction workers have died in excavations in and around Houston.

You seem to know a fair bit about the area's geology. About how far down is the water table, typically?

[Subdude]

Note two topics merged.

[AftonAg]

You seem to know a fair bit about the area's geology. About how far down is the water table, typically?

The distance varies of course but I would guess that it is probaly a range of from 15 to 40 feet depending on the permeability of the soil in a given area.

I did a project off 45 South behind Almeda Mall for the City of Houston that included several large excavations. If my memory serves me correctly the deepest excavation was something like 35 or 40 feet, and we had difficulty with water filling that excavation, but it was the only one that we had problems with on that project.

[TheNiche]

The distance varies of course but I would guess that it is probaly a range of from 15 to 40 feet depending on the permeability of the soil in a given area.

I did a project off 45 South behind Almeda Mall for the City of Houston that included several large excavations. If my memory serves me correctly the deepest excavation was something like 35 or 40 feet, and we had difficulty with water filling that excavation, but it was the only one that we had problems with on that project.

Thanks a bunch. I didn't realize that it was so far down.

[AftonAg]

Thanks a bunch. I didn't realize that it was so far down.

You are welcome - it is surprising especially when you consider that Houston is what 15 or 20 feet above sea level on average? Soil permeability is everything.