Old METRORail Plan

[Trae]

Who thinks this rail plan could ever come back:

[N Judah]

I think light rail to IAH is a bad idea because the trip is so long. A regular subway line or even commuter rail is better -- maybe at some point in the future...

[Trae]

Wouldn't it be nice to be sitting in your home in Uptown, and you needed to get on a flight to New York, and be able to take METRO Rail up to IAH or Hobby? One of my Atlanta members at my forum had the same situation today, and I wish it could be the same for Houston. They take a subway from MARTA on down to Hartsfield in Atlanta.

[Jax]

Whenever I visit my grandparents in Atlanta I take the MARTA from the airport to within about a mile of their house. It's great, and I'd definitely love to be able to do that here in Houston.

I guess it would be ideal to have light rail in the denser more urban parts of the city and have some kind of elevated track over the highway (like in Atlanta) on the lower density part of the trip towards the airport with less frequent stops. A subway wouldn't make sense here (as I understand it) due to flooding and cost. I guess the flooding issue is the same reason most people here don't have basements.

[musicman]

Wouldn't it be nice to be sitting in your home in Uptown, and you needed to get on a flight to New York, and be able to take METRO Rail up to IAH or Hobby? One of my Atlanta members at my forum had the same situation today, and I wish it could be the same for Houston. They take a subway from MARTA on down to Hartsfield in Atlanta.

since METRO is using LRT as a bus replacement, travel times are too slow. i'll bet it would take 1:20 or 1:30 to get from uptown to hobby.

[desirous]

I think light rail to IAH is a bad idea because the trip is so long. A regular subway line or even commuter rail is better -- maybe at some point in the future...

It wouldn't be too bad -- the top speed of current MetroRail vehicles, if I remember correctly, is above 60mph. It's at-grade usage that causes such slow operational speeds.

[musicman]

It wouldn't be too bad -- the top speed of current MetroRail vehicles, if I remember correctly, is above 60mph. It's at-grade usage that causes such slow operational speeds.

at grade can be fine IF kept separate from existing traffic.

[jason45]

I don't know the history behind this MetroRail plan. Why were the plans cancelled? Are there any current plans to expand Metro? I've always thought it was interesting that Houston is so far behind many other major cities when it comes to light rail.

[TexasArchitect]

ok, so i just got back from meeting up with some friends and one of the guys was all upset because the city has told him that he now has 8 months to get off of fulton.

he has his business on fulton near 610.

anyway he said that they are pushing him because they gave him a deadline of march 2008. i guess that's when the city will start for the addition of lightrail through fulton?

[Guest Marty]

ok, so i just got back from meeting up with some friends and one of the guys was all upset because the city has told him that he now has 8 months to get off of fulton.

he has his business on fulton near 610.

anyway he said that they are pushing him because they gave him a deadline of march 2008. i guess that's when the city will start for the addition of lightrail through fulton?

My family had a business at Fulton @ Berry in the 1980's .

I was for this because I wanted the rail to go to Spring where I live now, but now i have second thoughts I would hate to see my dads old shop get bulldozed.

[TexasArchitect]

yeah this guy has a scaffolding business. metro gave him an offer for his property a while back, but he didn't like their offer so he stayed. now he says that they are constantly calling him and what not telling him he has till march '08. he was making himself out to be a victim, but who knows we didn't ask him how much money he was offered for his property.

he also mentioned something about the light rail going somewhere near the new northline mall, which looks like is true by the map on the first post, but i can't tell what the streets are.

anyone have a more detailed map on what streets the rail is going to go through in that particular line??? i checked the metro rail webpage but couldn't find anything.....

[Guest Marty]

When the Harris County Flood Control District bought my grandma's house several years back we were the last one's to move out, they gave us more than what it was worth, we got an better deal than the people that moved out first, but the City of Houston is a different beast.

[TexasArchitect]

When the Harris County Flood Control District bought my grandma's house several years back we were the last one's to move out, they gave us more than what it was worth, we got an better deal than the people that moved out first, but the City of Houston is a different beast.

yeah, that's this guys tactic. he's trying to stay there as long as he can and try and get more money than original offer.

[musicman]

he also mentioned something about the light rail going somewhere near the new northline mall, which looks like is true by the map on the first post, but i can't tell what the streets are.

it is ending at northline as it comes up fulton

[RedScare]

since METRO is using LRT as a bus replacement, travel times are too slow. i'll bet it would take 1:20 or 1:30 to get from uptown to hobby.

Probably one hour, or slightly less. It is a little over 16 miles from the Galleria to Hobby on surface streets. The current line averages 17 mph with many of its stops only 4 blocks apart. The U Line and the Hobby line would have stops spaced about half a mile apart, so speeds would be no slower than the Red Line, and probably a little faster, say 20 mph, for a trip time of 50 minutes. If you had to drive and park yourself, it would take at least this long. If you got dropped off, it would probably be a 35 to 40 minute trip, so 50 is acceptable.

Light rail to IAH from Uptown would take too long, IMO. While light rail to Hobby is OK, an express bus, and eventually a commuter rail line is the only transit fast enough for IAH.

[ssullivan]

Light rail is not a problem to IAH. It can be just as fast as commuter rail. The difference is how the line is built. If it has its own right of way and grade separations at major crossings, light rail trains could run up to IAH at around 60 MPH, which is comparable to other rail technologies. Light rail itself is not inherently slow. Light rail is only slow when it's running in a street with other traffic and has lots of stops. The same holds true for other forms of rail transit.

I do agree that rail transit to the airports would be great, but only if the ridership is there to support it. The problem is that you can get plenty of ridership to IAH if the line makes stops along the way through the north side and Greenspoint. However, this diminishes the desirability of the line to IAH travelers. On the other hand, the airport traffic alone may not be enough to justify a nonstop, express line, or a line that makes minimal stops between IAH and downtown at a couple of transit centers along the way. And, without a comprehensive system throughout the center of the city, an express line to the airport really doesn't make much sense, because you have to have a way for travelers arriving at IAH to get to their ultimate destination in the city if they're taking Metro. The same holds true for local residents flying out of IAH. If you can't get from your home to the MetroRail line easily, the express train to the airport is pointless. Sure you have a lot of IAH travelers starting or ending their trips downtown, but service to downtown is pointless if you're going to most of the city and there's no quick link from downtown to where you're headed. That's why we have to have a comprehensive system throughout the city before Metro can really justify service to IAH, especially an express rail service. I think we'll see service to Hobby first, mainly because it's close to downtown and lies in a highly transit-dependent area of the city. It would be easy to tack Hobby onto one of the light rail lines in that area, just because the rail will probably already be going nearby. However, I wouldn't expect to see an express service between Hobby and downtown.

Anyway, I don't know that the map above has ever completely gone away. Most of those routes are still in Metro's long range plans. Light rail to both airports never was in the plan for the first 10 years or so of the Metro Solutions program; it was always in the longer-range plan (about 20 years out).

[VicMan]

Since METRO built light rail to be bus replacements, why not offer both commuter rail and light rail to IAH?

The light rail would mainly be intended for airport employees, but the commuter rail would cater to business visitors and tourists in Houston.

[Pumapayam]

Wouldn't it be nice to be sitting in your home in Uptown, and you needed to get on a flight to New York, and be able to take METRO Rail up to IAH or Hobby? One of my Atlanta members at my forum had the same situation today, and I wish it could be the same for Houston. They take a subway from MARTA on down to Hartsfield in Atlanta.

That would work for me.

Honestly, if one day, all the streets had a metrorail on it, we'd be in heaven, since there would be little of no reason to drive a car, unless you were going on the freeway out of the city.

[RedScare]

I agree sully, and that is why I believe a commuter rail line may be feasible. Service to IAH alone would be expensive, but not high ridership. A commuter line serving IAH, Humble and Kingwood/Atascosita may be workable. Light rail from Greenspoint to IAH may have decent ridership, but travellers would not like the trip times.

Frankly, IAH is an extravagance that we just do not need initially. The inner city routes and commuter lines to the suburbs are a better use of tight transit dollars.

[musicman]

Probably one hour, or slightly less.

hmmm i'm not sure because the trip from downtown to palm center is already over 30 mins in the planning phase.

Since METRO built light rail to be bus replacements, why not offer both commuter rail and light rail to IAH?

The light rail would mainly be intended for airport employees, but the commuter rail would cater to business visitors and tourists in Houston.

too much money. METRO cut service after the red line opened because they couldn't maintain both. the hardy corridor would be a great commuter corridor.

[Robert21979]

A rail out to the Katy area would be very beneficial for a lot of people and would definitely cut down the congestion on I-10. I think they really could have used the old rails that use to run the length of I-10 before they tore them up for the freeway expansion. They could of had a commuter train running that rail all the way into town. Oh well!

[citykid09]

Wouldn't it be nice to be sitting in your home in Uptown, and you needed to get on a flight to New York, and be able to take METRO Rail up to IAH or Hobby? One of my Atlanta members at my forum had the same situation today, and I wish it could be the same for Houston. They take a subway from MARTA on down to Hartsfield in Atlanta.

When I went to Atlanta that was my favorite part, we flew from Houston to Atlanta and road MARTA from the airport to downtown. From there we didn't really think about riding it until we realized it went everywhere we wanted to go:

we took it to Buckhead (Like the Galleria area)

and if I remember correctly we road it to the Under Ground.

then like on or last day we just got on one of the lines just to ride and look at the city.

I really did like it there. I wish Houston had a rail line like that. Its really more of a commuter rail. The last day we where in Atlanta we left early in the morning to go from downtown to the airport. As we went on and stopped at more stops the trains got very crowded with airport workers business people etc. it was great! I felt like I was in NYC.

If you guys want to here my very honest opinion I think the METRO rail is a joke and sucks! It stops traffic, and it looks like a toy with only 2 cars connected. WTF! Then METRO rail has a section of sets where you have to go up some steps, you wouldn't see no stuff like that in another city.

[Guest Marty]

yeah, that's this guys tactic. he's trying to stay there as long as he can and try and get more money than original offer.

We did not use the stall tactic we couldn't afford to move until we submitted a offer to the flood district and then they said we will pay for the moving expenses.

[Trae]

When I went to Atlanta that was my favorite part, we flew from Houston to Atlanta and road MARTA from the airport to downtown. From there we didn't really think about riding it until we realized it went everywhere we wanted to go:

we took it to Buckhead (Like the Galleria area)

and if I remember correctly we road it to the Under Ground.

then like on or last day we just got on one of the lines just to ride and look at the city.

I really did like it there. I wish Houston had a rail line like that. Its really more of a commuter rail. The last day we where in Atlanta we left early in the morning to go from downtown to the airport. As we went on and stopped at more stops the trains got very crowded with airport workers business people etc. it was great! I felt like I was in NYC.

If you guys want to here my very honest opinion I think the METRO rail is a joke and sucks! It stops traffic, and it looks like a toy with only 2 cars connected. WTF! Then METRO rail has a section of sets where you have to go up some steps, you wouldn't see no s**t like that in another city.

Yeah man, I know what Buckhead is . Anyway, I agree, METRORAIL is a serious joke. Atlanta and Dallas do it much better in the rail department.

[KinkaidAlum]

Earth to You Two;

Metrorail isn't done. We've built ONE damn line. You cannot compare our "system" until we have one. I'll reserve comments until other lines are connected. What both of you fail to realize is that you have to start somewhere.

Our starting somewhere made a lot of sense. It connected UH Downtown, the Courts, Downtown, The Theater District, Minute Maid Park, Toyota Center, St Joseph's Hospital, Midtown, Museum District, HCC, Rice, Hermann Park, the Zoo, Texas Med Center, Baylor College of Medicine, UT Health Science Center, Praire View ATM College of Nursing, UH Pharmacy, TSU Pharmacy, Reliant Stadium, and Reliant Hall (even Astroworld for a brief time). That ain't bad for a 7.5 mile line!

Additionally, Dallas and Atlanta would LOVE to have our ridership numbers and there are MANY cities in which you'll find step-ups on trains (like Boston's entire Green Line).

[Jax]

One thing I like about the metro rail here compared to MARTA is the frequency that it arrives at any given station. When I go downtown during a weekday I rarely wait longer than 5 minutes. I remember waiting for about 30 to get on the MARTA at the airport last time I was in Atlanta. That being said, the MARTA definitely goes more places. Maybe it was easier to build it underground in places because it doesn't flood in Atlanta like it does here in Houston. I definitely think the fact that it goes under downtown is a good thing. The fact that it follows the highways in parts is great for commuting to and from the airport but not so great for developing pedestrian friendly neighborhoods like everybody talks about here in Houston (although I know that has not happened yet).

I just realized that the metro rail is less than 3 years old. It's relatively new compared to MARTA. I wonder what MARTA was like 3 years after it opened.

[Trae]

Earth to You Two;

Metrorail isn't done. We've built ONE damn line. You cannot compare our "system" until we have one. I'll reserve comments until other lines are connected. What both of you fail to realize is that you have to start somewhere.

Our starting somewhere made a lot of sense. It connected UH Downtown, the Courts, Downtown, The Theater District, Minute Maid Park, Toyota Center, St Joseph's Hospital, Midtown, Museum District, HCC, Rice, Hermann Park, the Zoo, Texas Med Center, Baylor College of Medicine, UT Health Science Center, Praire View ATM College of Nursing, UH Pharmacy, TSU Pharmacy, Reliant Stadium, and Reliant Hall (even Astroworld for a brief time). That ain't bad for a 7.5 mile line!

Additionally, Dallas and Atlanta would LOVE to have our ridership numbers and there are MANY cities in which you'll find step-ups on trains (like Boston's entire Green Line).

Yes, but BRT is proposed for the rest, except for the University Line. That is a complete joke. I hope it changes somehow.

[KinkaidAlum]

Yes, but BRT is proposed for the rest, except for the University Line. That is a complete joke. I hope it changes somehow.

It is a joke. I totally agree with you.

However, don't blame METRO. They are only working with what they are given. I blame the boobs in Washington who clearly put their own selfish interests (profits and cronyism) ahead of the collective interests of the region. I also blame the even bigger boobs who keep electing these mental trolls.

How the region allowed DeLay and Culberson to PROHIBIT federal funds for Houston's light rail is beyond me. At least DeLay is gone although he had to pretty much spit in the face of The Constitution before he was voted out.

[TexasArchitect]

it is ending at northline as it comes up fulton

i'm confused, the map on post 1 shows the rail going to iah. i'm not sure i understand how it stops at northline.

can you post a link where it shows specifics on what streets that particular line of rail will be going through?

or, can anyone post such a link to clarify this?

i'm hearing a bunch of rumors due to future projects and i just want to be clear on this issue.

[ssullivan]

If you guys want to here my very honest opinion I think the METRO rail is a joke and sucks! It stops traffic, and it looks like a toy with only 2 cars connected. WTF! Then METRO rail has a section of sets where you have to go up some steps, you wouldn't see no stuff like that in another city.

citykid09, we had to start somewhere. Comparing Houston's MetroRail to Atlanta's MARTA is not exactly fair, as the two are using very different technologies, and MARTA started well over 20 years ago. When you look at light rail systems in the US (not "heavy" rail systems like MARTA), it's rare you see more than three car trains; two car and single car trains are more common due to a variety of reasons. I've ridden true light rail systems in Houston, Dallas, San Francisco, Boston, San Jose, Portland, Minneapolis, and San Diego. I can tell you that all of these have many similarities to MetroRail in Houston. Large sections of light rail in San Francisco, Boston, Dallas, and Portland are street running, often with even less separation from automobile traffic than what Houston has.

As for steps, Houston has just about the most accessible, step free, light rail system in the US, if not the world. All of MetroRail's boarding platforms are handicap accessible, and there are no steps required to reach the boarding platforms at any of our stops. All of MetroRail's trains feature low-floor boarding that is level with the boarding platform. NONE of Dallas's trains offer this feature. On all DART trains you must climb steps, and if a handicapped passenger is boarding, the train has to wait while the operator deploys a ramp and then assists the passenger with boarding. About half of Portland's don't (Portland often runs one low-floor car with one of the older high-floor cars in a train set to make the system accessible). San Francisco's new Breda light rail cars are high-floor cars, with convertible steps. In the downtown subway the train floor is level with the boarding platforms, which are higher than what's normally used for light rail, because the subway was designed for the larger BART trains. However, outside of the subway, on most routes the steps are lowered and boarding requires climbing several steps. In Boston, passengers must climb steps to board the light rail cars (KinkaidAlum may correct me... but I don't remember any level-boarding, low floor LRVs in Boston). My point is, MetroRail is one of the few US systems that features level boarding, with no steps, at all stops. The reason there is a section at both ends of each MetroRail LRV that is elevated is because the sections at the ends of the car are sitting above the train's motorized drive wheels. All low-floor LRVs that I've seen in the US have this type of setup, and the only ones where the floor is completely level throughout the train are high-floor LRVs, which usually require climbing steps to board the train.

MetroRail in Houston is not perfect. However, it has great ridership and is used by thousands of commuters every day. It's just a start, and if it wasn't for Metro being jerked around constantly by selfish politicians, we'd probably already have more rail fully funded and under construction.

i'm confused, the map on post 1 shows the rail going to iah. i'm not sure i understand how it stops at northline.

can you post a link where it shows specifics on what streets that particular line of rail will be going through?

or, can anyone post such a link to clarify this?

i'm hearing a bunch of rumors due to future projects and i just want to be clear on this issue.

That map was never for Phase 1 of the Metro Solutions plan. The initial extension of the Red Line was always planned to go as far as Northline, with eventual extension to Greenspoint and IAH. As I posted yesterday, that map was never intended to reflect the initial expansion of MetroRail, and Metro was very clear about this back in 2003 when the Metro Solutions plan was approved by voters. The map posted above reflects the eventual construction plan, which was looking forward about 20 years into the future.

How the region allowed DeLay and Culberson to PROHIBIT federal funds for Houston's light rail is beyond me. At least DeLay is gone although he had to pretty much spit in the face of The Constitution before he was voted out.

And even though Culberson is still in Congress, he is no longer on the transportation appropriations committee, which hopefully will help Metro.