When Will The Light Rail & Commuter Rails Start Construction?

[citykid09]

When Will The Light Rail & Commuter Rails Start Construction?

Also will the new light rail lines be like street cars (Like the one you guys already have) or will it be a full light rail system like you see in other cities like Dallas?

Also What will the commuter trains look like?

[OkieEric]

I hate to add to thread that will probably be merged, but are there actual plans for what the alignment would be like on Richmond? Is it going to be the 2 lanes taken up in the middle with one lane for traffic on either side? I certainly hope not, but I don't know what else they plan to do unless it involves a lot of destruction along Richmond... Why can't they do 2 rail lanes on one side?

I was initially for the rail on Richmond, but just trying to envision this thing is giving me doubts...if they can't keep 4 lanes devoted to traffic, it'll be a nightmare

[citykid09]

I think its really stupid to put the light rails on the streets. give them their own area or put them above or below ground. It makes no sense for them to be on streets with cars.

[OkieEric]

I think its really stupid to put the light rails on the streets. give them their own area or put them above or below ground. It makes no sense for them to be on streets with cars.

Not a fan of it, either - but I'm afraid a "something's better than nothing" mentality will prevail and we'll get a Richmond-strangling rail whether we like it or not. I'm OK with at-grade if they can make it work, but given the problems with Main I don't think they can...

[WesternGulf]

OK citykid, I am sure many have asked this question from you before countless times, but other than elevated and underground stretches and "if Dallas can do it why can't we", what would be your solution?

[WesternGulf]

To answer your question, trying to fing long stretches inside the inner loop where the train will not greatly interfere with cars will place passengers at a greater inconvenience when dealing with walking. I.E. the current Westpark proposal.

[OkieEric]

To answer your question, trying to fing long stretches inside the inner loop where the train will not greatly interfere with cars will place passengers at a greater inconvenience when dealing with walking. I.E. the current Westpark proposal.

Do you know what the plan is on this route in terms of alignment with traffic lanes? Is it going to be Main St-like, or are they actually going to do something different this time around? Seems like it'd take up less space to have both sets of tracks on the same side...not that I'm a rail guru, but I think you could then have the trains just curve off into a station here and there instead of wasting a lane of space in between tracks. There's got to be a better solution than the Main St line....if they pull that again, it'll do more harm than good IMHO

[Overseas]

Do you know what the plan is on this route in terms of alignment with traffic lanes? Is it going to be Main St-like, or are they actually going to do something different this time around? Seems like it'd take up less space to have both sets of tracks on the same side...not that I'm a rail guru, but I think you could then have the trains just curve off into a station here and there instead of wasting a lane of space in between tracks. There's got to be a better solution than the Main St line....if they pull that again, it'll do more harm than good IMHO

My understanding is that the Richmond design is based on maintaining 4 lanes of traffic by using the medians and some land to widen the road in places.

Rails on the outside of the road would probably cause problems with the numerous side streets entering the road. Rail down the middle would seem to minimize the opportunities for cars to cross the rails.

[musicman]

here's got to be a better solution than the Main St line....if they pull that again, it'll do more harm than good IMHO

they are having ROW issues and are trying to work with the city so that they can make narrower lanes. having 2 lanes each way on richmond is looking less likely.

i heard the cristof spieler (from ctc) speak recently on this recently. he was complaining at how freight lines divide neighborhoods, hinder traffic, etc. But he failed to mention that the LRT system will be doing the same thing. his solution for the freight trains was more grade separations. that would do wonders for LRT.

[Ethanra]

Does this mean Metro has started pre-construction on the 4 BRT and IT? METRO NEWS

[musicman]

Does this mean Metro has started pre-construction on the 4 BRT and IT? METRO NEWS

things are supposed to start ramping up this year.

[Houston19514]

they are having ROW issues and are trying to work with the city so that they can make narrower lanes. having 2 lanes each way on richmond is looking less likely.

What is your source for this information?

[musicman]

What is your source for this information?

mr spieler

[ricco67]

Bit of an update:

I ran across a person dealing with the proposals for new trains for the additional lines.

From what I've been told ALL the lines have been finalized, including the U-route and seems to be talking as if ALL the routes that have been mentioned in the past are going to get constructed.

What he wasn't very clear (to me) about the various vendors coming up with different train designs. One that this particular vendor is talking about are trains with additional capacity. I gave him my two cents and I hope it helped.

Sorry I can't give much information, but that's all that I have that I can disclose.

[nmainguy]

they are having ROW issues and are trying to work with the city so that they can make narrower lanes. having 2 lanes each way on richmond is looking less likely.

And yet no one but you and a few other uninformed outsiders consistantly provide no proof

i heard the cristof spieler (from ctc) speak recently on this recently. he was complaining at how freight lines divide neighborhoods, hinder traffic, etc. But he failed to mention that the LRT system will be doing the same thing. his solution for the freight trains was more grade separations. that would do wonders for LRT.

Freight rail always hinders traffic whether it be on Ella, Shepherd, Durham, Houston, Bonner, T.C. Jester, Westheimer, Oak Forest or Richmond. But it doesn't divide the neighborhoods. That may be the reason "the cristof" didn't suggest even a 2 car long LRT would do the same as a multi-car freight train does. This morning I turned the engine off to wait for a freight train to cross N. Main. I'll have to count the number of cars next time. After that I had to sit at a redlight at St. Joe's and Main for a one car LRT to cross

[musicman]

Freight rail always hinders traffic whether it be on Ella, Shepherd, Durham, Houston, Bonner, T.C. Jester, Westheimer, Oak Forest or Richmond. But it doesn't divide the neighborhoods. That may be the reason "the cristof" didn't suggest even a 2 car long LRT would do the same as a multi-car freight train does. This morning I turned the engine off to wait for a freight train to cross N. Main. I'll have to count the number of cars next time. After that I had to sit at a redlight at St. Joe's and Main for a one car LRT to cross

depending on design, freight rail doesn't always hinder traffic. there are quite a few in the ship channel area that run parallel to roads and don't ever cross.

Go down Mykawa Rd to the neighborhood where the streets begin with Bel, the rail has definitely divided the neighborhood. at one time, even the police stats were way different because of the line dividing the neighborhood. pineview place was definitely isolated as well. it is triangular shaped and there were rails on 2 of the 3 sides. one line was taken out yrs ago.

[TheNiche]

Freight rail always hinders traffic whether it be on Ella, Shepherd, Durham, Houston, Bonner, T.C. Jester, Westheimer, Oak Forest or Richmond. But it doesn't divide the neighborhoods. That may be the reason "the cristof" didn't suggest even a 2 car long LRT would do the same as a multi-car freight train does. This morning I turned the engine off to wait for a freight train to cross N. Main. I'll have to count the number of cars next time. After that I had to sit at a redlight at St. Joe's and Main for a one car LRT to cross

A pedestrian cannot legally cross the LRT tracks except at an intersection, right? In Downtown, that's OK because cross-streets were maintained throughout. In Midtown, that's a problem because the grid was disrupted. Pedestrians have to go out of their way in many cases to get from A to B...or break the law and possibly get ticketed by METRO cops.

[Houston19514]

A pedestrian cannot legally cross the LRT tracks except at an intersection, right? In Downtown, that's OK because cross-streets were maintained throughout. In Midtown, that's a problem because the grid was disrupted. Pedestrians have to go out of their way in many cases to get from A to B...or break the law and possibly get ticketed by METRO cops.

I think they put in pedestrian crosswalks even where the vehicular grid was disrupted.

[TheNiche]

I think they put in pedestrian crosswalks even where the vehicular grid was disrupted.

There are a few at irregular intervals along the rail line, but it seems that they have a tendency to be in the middle of blocks for some reason.

[musicman]

I think they put in pedestrian crosswalks even where the vehicular grid was disrupted.

they are very minimal. i believe there is one between alabama and richmond for instance.

map

i think there is also one between elgin and mcgowen

Edited July 18, 2007 by musicman

[GovernorAggie]

A pedestrian cannot legally cross the LRT tracks except at an intersection, right? In Downtown, that's OK because cross-streets were maintained throughout. In Midtown, that's a problem because the grid was disrupted. Pedestrians have to go out of their way in many cases to get from A to B...or break the law and possibly get ticketed by METRO cops.

I've crossed in front of Metro, HPD, and Harris County cops many times and I've never been ticketed. I've even crossed against the lights. I saw one person warned once, but that was because she crossed right in front of an oncoming train.

As far as going out of their way, what difference does it make if people use a short cut and risk being ticketed as a pedestrian. People do it all the time cutting through a parking lot to miss a light at an intersection while driving.

Portland and San Diego have much less (and in some cases no) separation between their at-grade, in-street LRT trains and pedestrians and vehicles. And they seem to have fewer problems. I think it's a Houstonian issue, not an at-grade, in-street LRT issue.

[TheNiche]

I've crossed in front of Metro, HPD, and Harris County cops many times and I've never been ticketed. I've even crossed against the lights. I saw one person warned once, but that was because she crossed right in front of an oncoming train.

As far as going out of their way, what difference does it make if people use a short cut and risk being ticketed as a pedestrian. People do it all the time cutting through a parking lot to miss a light at an intersection while driving.

Portland and San Diego have much less (and in some cases no) separation between their at-grade, in-street LRT trains and pedestrians and vehicles. And they seem to have fewer problems. I think it's a Houstonian issue, not an at-grade, in-street LRT issue.

Personally, I like their way and the completely grade-seperated approach. Our in-between approach is something I don't care for.

[GovernorAggie]

Personally, I like their way and the completely grade-seperated approach. Our in-between approach is something I don't care for.

What's in-between about Houston's?

[TheNiche]

What's in-between about Houston's?

They try to seperate LRT vehicles from traffic except at intersections, but it 1) takes away lanes from drivers, and 2) disrupts the grid.

[Houston19514]

they are very minimal. i believe there is one between alabama and richmond for instance.

map

i think there is also one between elgin and mcgowen

Of the streets in Midtown blocked by MetroRail, there are pedestrian crosswalks at the following:

Bremond

Dennis

Drew

Anita

Berry

Winbern and

Cleburne

There are a similar number of blocked streets with no crosswalks. Both are fairly evenly placed along the length of Midtown. Metro plans to monitor pedestrian activity in the area and can easily install additional crosswalks as they become necessary. (And I cannot find any crosswalks in the middle of a block).

Edited July 18, 2007 by Houston19514

[GovernorAggie]

They try to seperate LRT vehicles from traffic except at intersections, but it 1) takes away lanes from drivers, and 2) disrupts the grid.

So you would rather there be no separation, with the LRTs sharing lanes with motor vehicles? Because if so, that's not what the Portland and San Diego systems are. IIRC, they are still separated, they just have almost an "understood" separation (some of Portland's system has similar buttons to Houston). You don't drive on the tracks--so drivers still lose a lane, it's just not really marked off as much.

If you go to www.lightrail.net and look at the photos, you'll see that Houston's system is not much different than other American applications at all. Then maybe your problem isn't with Metro's application of LRT as much as its the American interpretation and application of LRT.

Edited July 18, 2007 by GovernorAggie

[TheNiche]

So you would rather there be no separation, with the LRTs sharing lanes with motor vehicles? Because if so, that's not what the Portland and San Diego systems are. IIRC, they are still separated, they just have almost an "understood" separation (some of Portland's system has similar buttons to Houston). You don't drive on the tracks--so drivers still lose a lane, it's just not really marked off as much.

Oh, ok. Well then they suck too.

[musicman]

Of the streets in Midtown blocked by MetroRail, there are pedestrian crosswalks at the following:

Bremond

Dennis

Drew

Anita

Berry

Winbern and

Cleburne

There are a similar number of blocked streets with no crosswalks. Both are fairly evenly placed along the length of Midtown. Metro plans to monitor pedestrian activity in the area and can easily install additional crosswalks as they become necessary. (And I cannot find any crosswalks in the middle of a block).

i expect crosswalks at stations. in this instance dennis, bremond, berry, winbern are station related. cleburne, anita and drew are standalone ones.

it looks like the drew one is in the middle of the block...at least on the west side of main. the one at cleburne looks like it ends up in a parking lot by one of the churches, also on the west side of main. maybe that's what niche was talking about.

[Trae]

Oh, ok. Well then they suck too.

I'm a big fan of the way they built DART LRT in Dallas.

One thing I notice is that their lines are colored, and it makes it a bit easier to know where the train is going (Blue background for Blue Line, Red Background for Red Line, etc.). I think METRO should take that approach with the LRT.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Trae

[TheNiche]

i expect crosswalks at stations. in this instance dennis, bremond, berry, winbern are station related. cleburne, anita and drew are standalone ones.

it looks like the drew one is in the middle of the block...at least on the west side of main. the one at cleburne looks like it ends up in a parking lot by one of the churches, also on the west side of main. maybe that's what niche was talking about.

Yep, probably.