gnu

Well..first of all...Subdude deserves a BIG thank you for going to Texas Room and putting forth the effort. On your teaser from last night, I went out there again today looking for something...anything. Of course, i found nothing...again. what map did you see the park notation ? So this new aerial seems (as you said its not clear) to validate to the second aerial photo in post 22 (see below) which shows what looks like an uncleared wooded area. I was sure was hoping it had been constructed though. Your scenario has always seemed the most plausible. You might think that since today's developers always build an elaborate entrance (with fountain, etc) to their new subdivision that, back then, they might have built this park area first, in order to attact customers. Out of curiosity, I think i want to see if i can find some newspaper ads from the time period promoting Brunsville to see how the park was described. or see if i can come up with some background on its failure. Thanks again!

that's the site of the old milby (metro) bus barn. i think the city recently sold the land to hcc to build a vocational school there. there have been some long standing issues with contaminants on the site (it was a storage and maintenece facility for buses and streetcars going back to 1906) and i don't know if they were resolved.

this is the block you described above. http://www.hcad.org/records/details.asp?ta...t=0132480000001 looks like the galveston houston diocese built an office building there in 1999 and the google aerial: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=ho...010815&t=h&om=1

Just so everyone has all the info I have accumulated. Here are Brunsville blocks 138 and 139 from the original HCAD block book pages. The notations for other volumes refer to the 1952 clintonview replat and the 1964 turning basin ind. dist. replat. These two replats and the land taken for the railroad and electricity easements give the area its current configuration. None of the notations refer to what the ovals are/were. (click on thumbnail to enlarge) and then here are the block book sketches from the 1954 Clintonview replat. Notice in the heading that it says that it was carved out parts of brunsville blocks 138 & 139. The 1964 Turning basin industrial dist. replat block book sketch is similar and does not shed any more light on the subject. (click on thumbnail to enlarge)

Post 17? i was thinking my next step would be to search through newspapers of the time of Brunsville's platting and look for an article. or actually maybe searching through newpapers from 1954ish (when Brunsville was replatted as Clintonview). An article on Clintonview might discuss what was there before the new subdivision.

maybe from the parts of houston that are in different counties? or maybe the harris co number was just county residents not in the city limits?

but how can we stop when there hasn't been a resolution? do you know for certain that they were not crop circles? Do you have an alien contact? can channel 11 fly their helicopter over the site and see if they can find anything?

There is at least one pumpjack left . they built a golf course there. it's called Wildcat. http://www.wildcatgolfclub.com/

I don't know when but at some point Gulfgate was fully enclosed.

i have looked at this map a gazillion times and i have always discounted those labels. are you certain that those labels represented the interior of the ovals. they are on the east side of teal and the oval was to the west (between teal and sol). also the word "park" might have just been used in the name of the subdivision to the east - not necessarily that it was park. it might even be a more recent business "park". EDIT: best way park is named for the Houston Best Way Transit Company (1981) - an industrial park -the one sevfiv circled in post 75. it is NOT within the oval. the missisippi park park replat is dated to 1976 and looks to be a similar industrial park across missisippi st from bestway. also NOT within the oval are you certain that the INTERIOR of the oval was ever missisippi park and/or best way park? i have seen the brunsville plat from the twenties and the current clintonview plat from the 40's that actually depicted the interior oval section. the missisippi and best way plats do not encompass any land west of teal st.

thanks for your interest. your group sounds pretty cool. i like the word underbelly i visited the area a couple of years back - when i first ran across the ovals on maps. The only evidence i ever found was the curves in the road around where the outside oval would have been. I even went up on the big levee north of the rr tracks/west of maxine and its just a big marsh for as far as the eye can see. I also drove slowly through what would have been the interior of the oval and I saw no evidence of anything unusual. I guess if i get desperate enough, i could go look for little old ladies in the neighborhood to interview or Maybe i need to pick up an archeologist's toothbrush! this was all probably just an elaborate cartographer's prank!

Great Maps! Thanks for posting. i clipped this from the handbook of texas: Most of the rail junctions still have their names - that is - with the railroad companies and railfans. but they were probably never really towns per se.

on the border was in houston until the mid-90's. why go to dairy queen when you can go to Braums and buy yourself a half gallon of MILK???!!!

I remember the long floor type. and they were right across the aisle from the concession.

I think you are a little confused as we all are highlights of an old chron article http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2004_3745009 and then you have ConocoPhillips: http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2003_3616184 http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2006_4122872 www.savethe76ball.com

nor can you see the long urinal floors in the mens rooms....

and your oval ovallay is off. it should be a block north. you can see the se "corner" of the oval at the corner of borden and teal and the sw at borden and sol.

not sure what you are trying to say. that the numbers might be off? i looked up the current address of the clinton park recreation center and its at 200 missisippi at clinton park. http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/ClintonBox.htm Clinton Park is always shown as a separate entity in all the maps i have seen and looks to have always been just north of missisippi st in the clinton park subdiv. here is the map from post 14 showing the park clearly labeled on the right weird that the cprc would have a clinton drive address in 1955. i dunno what to make of that. about fidelity, i checked sanborn and it also shows the fidelity (colored) school taking up the entire block 21 of the fidelity subdivision and lists it at 415 (and at a few other numbers for other buildings). block 21 corresponds to the block surrounded by fidelity,bolden (formerly maryland*), dehaven (formerly virginia*). *pre-coh annexation i dont think the street alignment deal is any issue with this. i just think the city planners sometimes didnt spend a lot of time on exact name consolidation and alignment when a new area was annexed.

hopefully ending the fidelity school possibility... found an old street index that lists the address of the school as 415 bolden this puts it in a block bordering fidelity st and between bolden and de haven. in the fidelity addition to the east and not in brunsville.

My information says Fidelity was in Galena Park ISD - another reason that it couldnt be in Brunsville (see post 63) i really think you are going the wrong direction with this. i believe that school was placed incorrectly on your 1950 map. i have found two maps so far that show the school on Fidelity st. - to the east of brunsville and clinton park and in gpisd

now i think that map is definately wrong. i have a 1954 map that shows Fidelity Elementary on the corner of Fidelity (makes sense) between Bolden and Delaware (other side of clinton park). It does not seem to still be an active school in Galena Park ISD and from google maps it appears that a large vacant lot is on that corner today. I am not even certain that Brunsville was ever in Galena Park ISD since Clinton Park Elementary just to the east (but before fidelity) is in HISD. I can't go along with the sewage treatment plant. The ovals were taken into account on the original plat of Brunsville. I cannot imagine that (even back then) someone would expect to plan a neighborhood centered around a treatment plant. again, we are talking about a time before the area was industrialized and the ship channel was in its infancy. think of magnolia park and central park today. these two communties were planned nice subdivisions not meant to be a lower income working class enclave - it just developed that way as the industry developed around the relatively new ship channel. also, when i say master planned, i didnt mean something on sharpstown's scale (if that is the type of development you are referring). Think of the heights (1896), think of river oaks (1924) with its curvilinear layout, think of garden villas (1926) with its interesting street grid that is focused on a central "square", or even park place (1914) with its circles. I am leaning towards this option more and more. It seems the most plausible.

my mom let me fill in the big bonus stamp books. I bought a disney blanket with them. we also had S&H Green Stamps

yes. i did when i first looked at it. brunsville was replatted in 1947 (i think) and there are only a few houses (maybe 20) that are (still) there from before then. i think i remember that there is one 1930s house on teal that backed up to what would have been the oval. the rest of the structures that are there (there are a lot of vacant lots and a lot of light industrial in the subdivision) date to 1947 or later and some of those are on the interior of the oval. Some maps still show the ovals post 1947 (i think the latest map in which i have seen with it depicted is 1956) which might lend more evidence to the fact that the maps are wrong.

I see Palm Springs!

I think it would probably be best located along 6th - near onion creek - that would give you good access to i-10. Or maybe in the heights downtown on 19th st. I think it would give it some personality or "street cred" if it was in a eclectic building (like an old gas station) and not in a newer strip center. other business streets to consider would be 11th, 14th, or Yale. i sort of agree with timmy chan about montrose/midtown if you are going for a younger demographic. but then if you were in a spot on 6th near Fitzgeralds. that might be the best of both worlds. what about townhome city (rice military) out washington ave? that would seem like an ideal spot , especially since it is booming and with single folks instead of families