Shell Energy Stadium

[Ethanra]

That being the case, why don't pro sports teams have to pay for their own stadiums too?

Because Pro-Sport teams will pack up their bags and move to a city that will build one for them. I understand why and how we build the stadiums but some things bother me. For example with MMP, we built the stadium with our taxes but the owner Drayton McCLain keeps the millions for naming rights.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Because universities don't threaten to move.

Too true...

I'll admit, I voted FOR the new pro stadiums whenever they were up for a vote.

Since that time, I've soured on pro sports. I could care less now whether they stay or go. I've given up on going to Astros, Texans and Rockets games. The atmosphere is sterile, and prices are insane.

UH now fulfills all my football, basketball and baseball needs. Games are more exciting, crowds are more energized, and I just enjoy myself better at UH games...even when we're losing.

If I had it to do over again, I'd vote against taxpayer subsidized pro sports stadiums. UH and Rice don't get any help with stadium improvements from the taxpayers, why should the pros?

[timedrifter]

I think probably the best option would be to give Robertson Stadium a complete modernization, right down to the bathrooms, and UH return control of the stadium (but not the parking lots) to the city. The new scoreboard Dynamo paid for is a step in the right direction. If they don't go for that, then they should definitely build across 59 from Minute Maid Park.

On a side note, this team will probably die a slow and painful death if they try to move to the suburbs after three years inside the loop. That kind of move worked for FC Dallas because neither major city is at the center of the sports activity in the region, and like it was mentioned before, DFW fans are used to driving to the suburbs for pro sports. We aren't. We are leaders, not followers. Inner-loop or bust! Say no to a suburban stadium!

[houstonsemipro]

I really can't see they building a soccer stadium across from MMP, it will be nothing but horror trying to find a parking spot. But, I can see they building it on the old Astroworld site.

I agree. Say NO to a suburban stadium!

Edited December 30, 2006 by houstonsemipro

[Montrose1100]

Just screw the Astrodome Hotel and use the dome as the soccer stadium.

[ricco67]

Just screw the Astrodome Hotel and use the dome as the soccer stadium.

Truly!

The Dome would be ideal for that and other events, of course, theonly downside to that is that they would hae to use astroturf instead of natural grass.

maybe building a stadium ON that complex?

More and more people are starting to use the rail to get to the Stadium and the convention center on those grounds.

[nmainguy]

Truly!

The Dome would be ideal for that and other events, of course, theonly downside to that is that they would hae to use astroturf instead of natural grass.

They could always put in clear skylights-like the original. No pop-flys to worry about missing...

[ricco67]

that IS rather true.

would be rather awesome, I think.

Or they can simply take the turf out for a walk like they do for reliant stadium.

[Subdude]

I would prefer a location near MMP to Astroworld. It would be exciting having another facility close to MMP and the Toyota arena, and there is a lot of existing parking. That said, a location near Reliant would beat something in the suburbs. I doubt the team would ever agree to use the Astrodome for soccer, so that is probably a non-starter. It's too big.

[Trae]

Didn't Texas Tech build a new stadium a not to long ago.

[Montrose1100]

I would prefer a location near MMP to Astroworld. It would be exciting having another facility close to MMP and the Toyota arena, and there is a lot of existing parking. That said, a location near Reliant would beat something in the suburbs. I doubt the team would ever agree to use the Astrodome for soccer, so that is probably a non-starter. It's too big.

Its too big, but atleast it would put the 8th wonder of the world back in proper use...

[ProHouston]

Just screw the Astrodome Hotel and use the dome as the soccer stadium.

That would severly limit the usage of the dome. Why would you want to spend millions to upgrade the dome to a soccer stadium that is too big for only 20 or so games a year when there's a perfectly good plan in place to redevelop the dome as a commercial resort site to be used throughout the year?

[Montrose1100]

That would severly limit the usage of the dome. Why would you want to spend millions to upgrade the dome to a soccer stadium that is too big for only 20 or so games a year when there's a perfectly good plan in place to redevelop the dome as a commercial resort site to be used throughout the year?

Advertisement... And who says the resort will last? Anyways, I just think the Hotel idea sucks, because the Astrodome is a stadium, I don't think it should be used for a cheesy texas courthouse themed hotel.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Or they can simply take the turf out for a walk like they do for reliant stadium.

It has to be natural grass for professional soccer. It's just FIFA and MLS rules. When played at Reliant, it's still natural; not astroturf.

I would prefer a location near MMP to Astroworld. It would be exciting having another facility close to MMP and the Toyota arena, and there is a lot of existing parking. That said, a location near Reliant would beat something in the suburbs. I doubt the team would ever agree to use the Astrodome for soccer, so that is probably a non-starter. It's too big.

I like the Astrodome idea as well, but since Astrodome Redevelopment has the upper hand for the time being, chances of that happening are not so strong. I say keep the Dome's size and make it the largest soccer-specific stadium in the U.S. if that were the location. Sure, it would probably be a few years before the Dynamo would be able to sell out a stadium that size by itself, but the Dome could be a multi-purpose track and field stadium. The Dome would sell out anytime the major soccer events like European tours and major Cups were there, and we know that because of the trends we've seen at Reliant. We could also push for the track and field world championships. Question is if the stadium could be revamped in a way that looks as good as the hotel renderings.

[Subdude]

It would be nice to save the dome, and I agree that the hotel idea has a whiff of cheese about it. The problem is I can't imagine the Dynamo would agree to play in the Astrodome to begin with. Average MLS attendance is like 15,000 per game, and last I checked only LA Galaxy exceeded 20,000 per game. The last thing a team would want would be to play in a 40-year old facility seating 60,000. It would be more than a few years before the Dynamo could sell out there - it would be more like a few lifetimes. I would imagine the county ran the idea past the Dynamo during the period when they were trying to come up with ideas for the dome.

[KDubRedRaider]

Didn't Texas Tech build a new stadium a not to long ago.

Nah, we've just done some major renovations in the last 5 years. There were plans to add another 10,000 seats, but I think they've been scaled back considerably.

[Stan Collins]

i gave you 2 chances for the free pass to the real world......i think you just missed the boarding call.

I think you're missing the boat as soon as you compare to the giant football stadium across town. Any soccer stadium's not proposing to provide value in spite of its humble ambition--but because of it.

The soccer stadium will cost 1/10th-1/8th as much, the public may well pay 1/25th as much (if the city negotiates well), and it'll host more events.

Well, the Dynamo had exactly ZERO sellouts...why do they merit a new stadium? Especially one that would be footed by taxpayers?

The Dynamo's best-attended game was their first game: 25,462. They drew 23,107 for the conference final.

Yeah, I don't get that either. 23,107 essentially would be a sellout in the type of venue they'd like to build.

Also, the Dynamo host 4 times as many games as the Cougars do.

--

And you add in youth soccer tournaments, Mexican friendlies, National Team matches, high school football, concerts, etc. These things can work in a Dynamo stadium more than in a Reliant, because Reliant costs $250k just to open the doors. They often can't work at Robertson because of all the restrictions the U of H puts on the place. (They had to get special permission to host a 21st game last year, and they're running into trouble scheduling the MLS versus Mexican League and North American championship tournaments they've been invited to because they won the championship last year, because of University restrictions.)

There's plenty good reason to build a Dynamo stadium, and plenty of value for the dollar it can provide to Houston as long as you work out a partnership whereby the team has to kick in for the cost, and the city has access to a certain number of game days.

When it comes to building stadiums, the regular tenant is almost irrelevant. Think of this not as a "soccer stadium" but as "a ~20k outdoor venue" that happens to host a soccer team.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Stan Collins

[ricco67]

there is alot of truth to what you said, most of wish never occured to me.

I don't know how it would hold up as a concert venue, but maybe some more of the modest celebrations around town might be able to fill it.

it certainly won't hold a truck rally, though.

if it's built right near one of the new rail line extentions, the parking wouldn't be that big of an issue.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I just don't understand why after just one year at Robertson, Dynamo would already consider a permanent 25K stadium, especially considering the fact that larger soccer events would probably still be held at Reliant instead.

If I were them, I'd move to Reliant Stadium after the Robertson Stadium lease were up in a couple years. Buy some time and assess where professional sports in Houston stands. Sign perhaps a five-year lease with Reliant. After two years at Reliant, THEN start looking for stadium locations and renderings. MLS in Houston doesn't have as high an attendance as the NFL or MLB obviously, it does beat out NBA, WNBA, and hockey because of seat availability. But it's too much of a variable to assess how big a stadium to build for Dynamo to stay for at least 20 years.

Here's another variable: What happens if/when MLS becomes a success in the next couple years? During this off-season, MLS announced that they could be courting some of soccer's biggest draws to the league, including players like Ronaldino, Beckham, and Henry. Household names in the world of sports. Remember when Barcelona and Club America had that exibition at Reliant Stadium? Sold out. Somewhere between 65-70K in Houston. If and when MLS were capable of selling out like that everynight at their 25K stadiums, and with Houston looking to build a stadium but are capable AT THAT TIME of averaging at least 40-45K at Reliant, we'd be the ones setting the standard in American sports instead of following the 25K high school trend. We'd be able to build a 50K stadium with a guarantee that every side would make a profit instead of building a 25K one without knowing when the sport would be respected as the rest of the world does. Money well saved and money well spent.

We also have to remember three things:

1) Dynamo at one point would have sold for $10 Million. Now, they're getting offers of $30 Million. The league is growing.

2) The team is still owned for now by AEG. Hopefully, that won't be permanent. Before even considering a stadium, it should have a local owner first.

3) We still have a number of stadiums that are costing taxpayer money as is. If AEG were to propose a stadium this year, the stadium will just be a ripoff of the others. As I said before, they need to build the market in Houston before anything else.

[Stan Collins]

I just don't understand why after just one year at Robertson, Dynamo would already consider a permanent 25K stadium, especially considering the fact that larger soccer events would probably still be held at Reliant instead.

It may seem like it's in a hurry, but it's really derived from 11 valuable years of the league's history.

I'd say it boils down to two reasons--control of luxury suites, and cost of rent. In the short term, Reliant costs so much to open up that you might make more money (remember, you can also charge a bit more for tickets if they are more scarce) in "Dynamo Stadium" for, say, a match between two mid-tier Mexican teams in an Interliga match than at Reliant, even if it would have drawn 10-15k more fans at Reliant. The only kind match that would clearly do better at Reliant is the type of "mega-vent" that would come close to selling it out--eg the Club America vs Barcelona game, or a Mexico vs USA national team match. Those might well stay.

Luxury suites are the long term concern, but it's the presence of big games that helps drive rich people to pay for the suites. Red Bull Arena in New York will be attempting to rent out 60+ of them or 65K apiece (that's $4 Million a year if they pull it off). Houston obviously won't be able to match that (in NY, you're benefitting from the fact that Giants Stadium charges four times even that amount). But hosting a stream of extra events could be worth a good $1 Million a year to the Dynamo, even if you only broke even on the events themselves.

Here's another variable: What happens if/when MLS becomes a success in the next couple years? During this off-season, MLS announced that they could be courting some of soccer's biggest draws to the league, including players like Ronaldino, Beckham, and Henry.

Well, it would be overdoing it to suggest they'll be going after top players at their peak. The rumors have been circling around guys like Beckham, Figo or Ronaldo, guys who are all at least a little past top form.

More importantly, I think MLS is going after something more like an NBA model, whereby they charge a fortune for the suites and the front row--originally, they were thinking like they were NFL owners from 50-60 years ago, drawing ever-increasing crowds in large, rented stadiums, but that business model proved not to work, and these days, you can increase your bottom line almost as well by charging a few very rich people an amazing amount of money as you can by converting the masses (and the former's a lot easier, to boot).

If they designed it right, they could also build a 25k seater that you could squeeze 35k in for important matches (they were looking at that kind of design in Cleveland), or they could add a second deck if and when that's necessary (I suspect that could be done in Toronto, for instance, if the team becomes popular enough to justify it).

Edited January 8, 2007 by Stan Collins

[DJ V Lawrence]

Well, it would be overdoing it to suggest they'll be going after top players at their peak. The rumors have been circling around guys like Beckham, Figo or Ronaldo, guys who are all at least a little past top form.

I'm not sure what the status on Ronaldo is, but he's definately past his prime, and I can't see him playing in the next World Cup. Figo just recently signed with Al Ittihad of Saudi Arabia. No telling what his future is in professional or international play.

The MAJOR news is Beckham though. He's still in his prime, has plenty of years left in him, and will probably still start for England in 2010. According to ESPN, Beckham may be in negotiations to sign with LA Galaxy, which would be the biggest signing in MLS history. Not sure how the U.S. covered his Real Madrid signing, but when that happened, over 100 countries broadcasted the signing live. Victoria Beckham has reportedly been house-hunting in L.A., David has a youth camp there, and rumor has it that Beckham has been considering a Hollywood career after retiring. Also, he's only 31.

Real Madrid is also reportly in negotiations to re-sign Beckham to a record contract for two years. Even if that happened, he'd only be 33 by the end of that contract. Another factor is the fact that Real Madrid just signed another midfielder star, Fernando Gago of Boca Juniors from Argentina. Becks likes to be the star and doesn't like the bench, so that may also come into a factor as to if he would sign with Galaxy at 31 or not.

If they designed it right, they could also build a 25k seater that you could squeeze 35k in for important matches (they were looking at that kind of design in Cleveland), or they could add a second deck if and when that's necessary (I suspect that could be done in Toronto, for instance, if the team becomes popular enough to justify it).

Toronto's stadium will also be the Canadian national stadium. De Rosario, star on Dynamo, already turned down moving to Toronto FC and re-signed with H-Town. But if he's able to lead the Canadian national team to some important wins and turn them into World Cup qualifying contenders, who knows how long it would be until T-Town's stadium would have to be expanded.

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/soc/4462484.html

Glenn Davis of the Houston Chronicle believes the new stadium should be built Downtown.

[Subdude]

BTW, a project like this is exactly what I think Houston Dynamo should do in Houston across 59 from MMP. Make it the largest and best MLS stadium in the league, and have it partially paid for by investors who would also be investing in the urban development around the stadium.

Also, get a foriegn company to buy the naming right.

This was from the Atlantic Yards topic, but I thought it was an excellent point. I wouldn't want the largest facility, but it is a great idea to have a stadium as part of a larger overall development. Any Dynamo stadium should have a lot of practice areas for local kids to make it a real asset for the neighborhood.

[DJ V Lawrence]

This was from the Atlantic Yards topic, but I thought it was an excellent point. I wouldn't want the largest facility, but it is a great idea to have a stadium as part of a larger overall development. Any Dynamo stadium should have a lot of practice areas for local kids to make it a real asset for the neighborhood.

Yo check this out.

http://web.mlsnet.com/t103/stadium/poplar_point/

DC United's new stadium is part of a mixed-use development. New York Red Bull as well...

[houstonsemipro]

That a awsome rendering, DJ.

You think Houston will built a mixed-use soccer stadium?

[DJ V Lawrence]

That a awsome rendering, DJ.

You think Houston will built a mixed-use soccer stadium?

I think it may soon be neccesary to have it mixed-use, and also around the Downtown/MMP area, and if not, any neighborhood or area along light rail (Midtown, Reliant, etc.) I hope and think it will happen.

Why? Chances are higher that we'll be landing an NHL francihse in Toyota Center. Even if the Penguins don't move here, there's plenty of other teams who may be looking for a new owner or city (case in point, the Florida Panthers). Toyota Center would then have three professional teams playing there, and possibly a minor league team too if the Aeros stayed there. Concert space at the new Dynamo stadium would make the stadium highly occupied when it wasn't gameday.

That's also why I hope they go retractable roof. Say they make a stadium between 25-40K seats. That'd still be perfect for events non-soccer. They wouldn't have to worry about the unpredictable weather during those events. Have outdoor events like motorcross, and indoor like the ones at Toyota that may not come here because of lack of 15,000+ seating. MMP and Reliant are aight 4 concerts, but not as good as Toyota. Perhaps we could pull it off with the Dynamo project.

And I think it should be part of a bigger development project like the ones in Washington and NY/NJ. Have that project across from MMP, or at the old Astroworld site (where they already announced they plan a major urban development there), and it would do wonders for both the city and the team. We can lose if we do that, and MLS will be growing in attendance and quality. They're not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Serrano]

I heard the stadium is going to be build outside Houston. Maybe towards Galveston or Katy or etc.

[ProHouston]

I heard the stadium is going to be build outside Houston. Maybe towards Galveston or Katy or etc.

It's all just speculation right now. No decisions or announcements have been made.

[Subdude]

I would imagine the Dynamo will be turning up the heat soon for a new stadium. DC United is getting theirs (from fieldofschemes.com)

Just when Washington, D.C. residents thought that they were finally done being hit up for stadiums, Washington Post columnist Marc Fisher reports that two, count 'em two, more stadium plans are in the works. D.C. United is moving ahead with long-rumored plans for a 27,000-seat soccer-only stadium across the Anacostia River from the new Nationals stadium

[DJ V Lawrence]

I would imagine the Dynamo will be turning up the heat soon for a new stadium. DC United is getting theirs (from fieldofschemes.com)

I just read the rest of that article on Washington. D.C United's plans for their new stadium sound reasonable and impressive. It would currently be the biggest MLS stadium around (hopefully until Dynamo come into the picture). The Redskins, though? Their new stadium is only 10 years old this year.