Citizens National Bank At 402 Main St.

[Double L]

Honestly, homelessness may be downtown's biggest problem. I think the time is now for a more effective and a more comprehensive homeless ordinance. Does anybody know where you can find a copy of Houston's current homeless ordinance? And how often are rules broken or not enforced?

[musicman]

And, yes, at the expense of sounding racist: the largely-minority crowds that are frequenting the clubs DT are possibly going to negatively impact more serious development if those crowds foster violence (or the perceived threat of violence). I personally wouldn't invest in any property DT until after Pavilions is built (50/50) and we've seen whether HP changes the dynamic for the better.

DT is on very shaky ground... Might it revert back to its former self?

You kinda sound like me.

Perception is important. That won't change unless you go down there yourself. Unfortunately we are in the minority because we actually have been down there. There are just so many who really aren't in the know about "real" downtown life.

I still wonder whether the pavillions will actually make a difference. I remember when Bayou Place opened, many were saying how Downtown would be changed forever because it's a Cordish project. We've never seen anything like it, etc. Initially yes, there was a surge of people going downtown. But places have closed there too and plenty of rental space is still available. Killing off the residential portion of the Pavillions will only hurt.

Edited January 20, 2007 by musicman

[ricco67]

Well, clubs will cater to certain demographics, so you're unlikely to be harassed omin the club itself.

My main problem is that the streets themselves have turns into a club of sorts itself. People just hangout to look and want to be seen. There seems to be plenty of police there, but I wish something would be done to prevent people just "hanging out".

The police seem to do an excellent job to keep the people moving, overall. I just wonder what preventive measures they spot potential troublemakers.

The HP should be interesting that it will bring a higher standard of entertainment and will both bring in and dilute the targeted demographic at some of the other crowds and will force them to improve their places to keep pace.

[713 To 214]

I don't mind homeless people. It's the aggressive pan-handling that goes on at every corner along Main Street (and stops in between) that piss me off. and while we're on the subject, the people pan-handling flowers and photographs run a close second.

[Double L]

^ Absolutely agreed.

[tigereye]

Get ready for this........last night, got to see many of my peeps who used to work at MBar. It did officially close on Saturday (1/13) BTW. Most of them landed gigs in midtown. Well, last night, I saw the former GM of the place, Carlos. He told me why the club went down.

It had nothing to do with business.

It had everything to do with who was gonna replace MBar at the old Citizens Bank site.

MBar is gonna be replaced by a WAL-GREENS

For those who dont know, the Site is at the corner of Main and Preston

Alot of us have campaigned for a grocery store downtown. Now while Wal-Greens is a CVS-Clone, in reality, its also the closest thing downtown has ever had to a full fledge grocery store. I guess the transformation of Downtown into a more friendlier residential component has begun. So how do you feel about this? You against the CVS-Close raiding the Downtown nightlife scene. Or are you for this mini grocery store helping downtowns residential aspirations?

Discuss.

[musicman]

MBar is gonna be replaced by a WAL-GREENS

For those who dont know, the Site is at the corner of Main and Preston

Alot of us have campaigned for a grocery store downtown. Now while Wal-Greens is a CVS-Clone, in reality, its also the closest thing downtown has ever had to a full fledge grocery store. I guess the transformation of Downtown into a more friendlier residential component has begun. So how do you feel about this? You against the CVS-Close raiding the Downtown nightlife scene. Or are you for this mini grocery store helping downtowns residential aspirations?

Discuss.

I guess it must be a small Walgreens because i didn't think MBar was big. And if it's small, I don't think they'd have a grocery section but one never knows. For years, there used to be a small "neighborhood" grocery store on Fannin/San Jacinto (kind of near Christ Church Cathedral) but they closed sometime during rail construction if i'm not mistaken.

[ricco67]

I think it will be a good thing and it's sorely needed in that immediate area. while the CVS is only a few blocks away, it's a good distance from quite a few of the residents.

How this affects what mainstreet should be like will be interesting. I wonder if there will be fewer people wandering the street and more going into the clubs?

[feufoma]

While I think that we have more than enough pharmacies in Houston (is the population really aging that much...or are we just a bunch of wussies that depend on a panacea for every ache?), this is certainly better than just another club moving into the space. I know the location and I agree that it doesn't look very large. But at least something is going to be there. I guess the CVS just a few blocks down the street isn't sufficient??? I'd much prefer a small grocery moving there. You know, fresh produce, flowers, sundries. Like other cities have...

[DJ V Lawrence]

I think that's sucks seeing MBar turn into a Walgreens/CVS. I remember seeing a couple vacant spots right there on the Main Street Square. Why would they want to close down a club when they could have gotten the same size space in vacant spaces across the street? Now we still have vacant spots on the supposedly hottest clubbing area in Houston, a popular club is closed, and we have a drugstore to show for it. It's not even a grocery store. That's not the answer to a Flagship or Signature store downtown, if needed.

[ricco67]

I think they wanted a prime "corner" location and it seemed to fit the bill.

I'm sure that if you lived downtown and you felt crappy, getting out of your loft to go a block as opposed to several blocks, would be more appealing. now the question is, will it be 24hrs? If only another residential tower/loft would open up! that would certainly provide more people for the area.

[N Judah]

Pffft. They can always put up another bar somewhere else. In the meantime, I hope that that CVS loses business and shuts down.

[dalparadise]

Yeah... they were making plenty of money, but because Walgreen's wanted the space, they closed.

[ricco67]

or more accurately, "Bought out."

That means that wallgreens is very optimistic to be in downtown if they're willing to ask for a prime spot like that.

[tigereye]

I guess it must be a small Walgreens because i didn't think MBar was big.

Not actually. MBar had 3 floors, as well as an unknown 4th floor.

1. You had the main floor ground level.

2. You had the basement, complete with a bar and restrooms. The was also a secret lounge behind the bar, this was where the old vault used to be for Houston Citizen's Bank. The boilers were also back here as well, but they were to the left and down the hall. The vault is still intact. Some very wild things happened back there ...hehe, I'd rather not elaborate. But if you open both areas up to eachother, you have a very large area.

3. You had the upstairs balcony level overlooking the main floor. Now if you get rid of the balconies for one complete floor level, you have an area exactly as large as the main floor, which is very large.

4. The level no one ever saw. Offices and another lounge. Its above the balconies. Only accesible via the back right corner staircase thats on the way to the basement. Most took this staircase to get to the balcony level. The stairs continue form there....but most were too drunk to realize it and go up further.

I feel this area is large enough for a full scale Wal-Greens including grocery section - mius the drive through of course. Sadly enough, the only way this happens is with the grand ornate architecture of the interior of this building being gutted for the bland cookie-cutter acrchitecture you would expect to find from a grocery store. That would be the real loss. Everyone associated with Mbar, myself including, have pretty much vowed never to go in there when it makes its transformation to Wal-Greens...its just goona be sad. If anything, I would have prefered MBar to be bought out by someone who would have preserved the all aspects of the architecture of this building, interior included. Tillman Fertita would have been great. Imagine a Vic & Anthony's with seating in that grand lobby... An excellent opportunity to creat something grand, will instead go by the wayside.

And then there's the block itself, which, has taken a hit. Gone are Mbar and Opus. Infact, IIRC, that whole block is shuttered, except for tha one small club in between MBar and Opus that's still in operation.

Edited January 21, 2007 by tigereye

[Double L]

or more accurately, "Bought out."

That means that wallgreens is very optimistic to be in downtown if they're willing to ask for a prime spot like that.

^^^^

That is incedible.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Double L

[musicman]

Not actually. MBar had 3 floors, as well as an unknown 4th floor.

I know about the various floors but i sincerely doubt Walgreens would build a multi-level store. I liked the interior of the building, i just hope it isn't gutted to build some sterile store with cheap shelving.

[Skyhi]

At the risk of being dubbed a Republican, racist or both, I'll ask this question --

Who thinks the elephant in the room downtown is black people? You can't help but notice that several Main St. clubs, which used to have a couple of black people in them on a weekend night are now almost exclusively black.

Does this make a difference to the viability of residential development downtown in a city that I believe is still pretty racist at its core? Do white Houstonians want to live in a neighborhood that attracts black people by the hundreds every weekend? What if these black people are dressed well and not causing any problems (they are)? I think it's still a stretch for Whitey in Houston to pay over $300K for a small condo to live in a neighborhood frequented by black people. Maybe that's why residential development is being held back.

Unfortunatly, I can't deny that after Super Bowl partiers, and Puff Daddy/Sean P Diddy/Puffy... hit downtown that the demographics of these clubs changed. This past summer my son worked a couple of these downtown clubs and when his car was in the shop, l gave him a ride. Wow! this blond haired white girl in her white Lexus felt pretty out of place. My son wasn't too comfortable with me being there either and felt it was best that I drop him off a block or so away so I didn't have to get caught in the middle of a street party. Lucky for my son, he has his father's coloring and can and does blend in wherever he goes. For me, I feel much more comfortable in Midtown going to clubs like Escobar or The Roof where the partiers are an eclectic mix. I also believe that to sustain growth in a vibrant urban center it must be diverse enough that everyones' dot makes for a beautiful landscape, not just a smudge. Without variety life is just dull!

[jdbaker]

I think they wanted a prime "corner" location and it seemed to fit the bill.

I'm sure that if you lived downtown and you felt crappy, getting out of your loft to go a block as opposed to several blocks, would be more appealing. now the question is, will it be 24hrs? If only another residential tower/loft would open up! that would certainly provide more people for the area.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have winner. ^^

As a downtown resident, I couldn't be happier to hear this. Several people mentioned that there is already a CVS a few blocks south of MBar, which is true, but it's not that simple. This type of redundancy is essential for a bona fide pedestrian neighborhood. Case in point, I live seven blocks north of the Main St. CVS, but I rarely walk there. It's a 15-20 minute walk, which translates into a 30-40 minute round trip, making it walkable (if barely) but less efficient than driving to the CVS on West Gray. The Mbar/Walgreen location is only three blocks away. This translates into translates into a 10-15 minute round trip, which is quicker than driving to W.Gray. It does sound like a big deal, but it is. The tipping point is somewhere within those extra 4 blocks.

Why does this matter? First, I would pay 5-10% more in rent for this conveinece, and I suspect I'm not alone. Not using your car can become very addicitive. Second, this means one more person (that isn't homeless or club hopping) is on Main St after business hours, which in turn makes all those other Main St. store fronts a little more valuable. While bars and resteraunts are great, it is impossible to understate the value of having everyday necessities within 5 minutes of your front door.

[houstonfella]

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have winner. ^^

As a downtown resident, I couldn't be happier to hear this. Several people mentioned that there is already a CVS a few blocks south of MBar, which is true, but it's not that simple. This type of redundancy is essential for a bona fide pedestrian neighborhood. Case in point, I live seven blocks north of the Main St. CVS, but I rarely walk there. It's a 15-20 minute walk, which translates into a 30-40 minute round trip, making it walkable (if barely) but less efficient than driving to the CVS on West Gray. The Mbar/Walgreen location is only three blocks away. This translates into translates into a 10-15 minute round trip, which is quicker than driving to W.Gray. It does sound like a big deal, but it is. The tipping point is somewhere within those extra 4 blocks.

Why does this matter? First, I would pay 5-10% more in rent for this conveinece, and I suspect I'm not alone. Not using your car can become very addicitive. Second, this means one more person (that isn't homeless or club hopping) is on Main St after business hours, which in turn makes all those other Main St. store fronts a little more valuable. While bars and resteraunts are great, it is impossible to understate the value of having everyday necessities within 5 minutes of your front door.

Whoa... not using your car in Houston? Can't even get the concept. But you guys have fun with walking and the train.

[Subdude]

It's good news when downtown can start attracting retail business that isn't strictly aimed at the tunnel crowd. It's the little conveniences like this that may help attact more residents over time. They do more to improve downtown as a neighborhood than a lot of clubs.

[Double L]

MBar was really nice. I'm surprised it was bought out. If Walgreen's is that willing to buy out a successful establishment for a central location, then that bodes well for downtown's outlook.

[2112]

One of the things I was trying to point out is that it is not any particular group of people that turns me off in downtown - its the attitude of that so-called "gansta" crowd, with all the anger and aggresivness that goes with it. And like I said, I can point to many types from many races, like my own, that are a part of that. And it is that attitiude that is now lurking all over main street, not necessarily any one group, that is a turn off. Case in point: The jazz scene I love, and I am very much a minority as a Latino, say, in the Red Cat. But I still feel very comfortable there because it is full of people who are classy and dont get in your face. I guess I am uncomfortable with lumping any particular race into a lifestyle, because it is the lifestyle that where much of the crap is. I may sound like an old man, but really, the glorification of violence and the in-your-face attiudes do suck, young or old.

...unless it's Limp Bizkit. For some reason, there angry songs really hit the spot when I was having to deal with difficult people!

[DJ V Lawrence]

Isn't the Houston Pavillions project somewhere around that spot? Why couldn't that project include a 24-hour grocery or drug store?

[ricco67]

no, HP will be located at Bell Station.

[musicman]

no, HP will be located at Bell Station.

Isn't it at Dallas and Main, cateycorner from Foley's?

[ricco67]

Isn't it at Dallas and Main, cateycorner from Foley's?

If you look at the Map on the HP thread, you might be able to glean the information from there.

[musicman]

If you look at the Map on the HP thread, you might be able to glean the information from there.

Yep at Dallas. I guess the Bell reference threw me off.

[ricco67]

Yep at Dallas. I guess the Bell reference threw me off.

Not a problem. Glad to help clarify.

[WesternGulf]

It's good news when downtown can start attracting retail business that isn't strictly aimed at the tunnel crowd. It's the little conveniences like this that may help attact more residents over time. They do more to improve downtown as a neighborhood than a lot of clubs.

Ditto. There's nothing like it in the area. These are the type of businesses that will have you seeing actual residents walking around on a Sunday night.