Dems take back the House and Senate

[RedScare]

Yep, and Canadian healthcare sucks.

It's better than the healthcare I have had for the last 2 and a half years.

[TheNiche]

Disagree, I'm living proof. 6.5 hours on the slab at Ben Taub's trauma center from a knife wound 18 inches long that fileted my spleen in the process. My insurance paid it and the ride in the ambulance. AETNA, I'm glad I met ya.

Damn. What's the story behind that?

It's better than the healthcare I have had for the last 2 and a half years.

Then you need a new provider.

[RedScare]

Then you need a new provider.

NEW provider? I'd be happy with the OLD provider!

Spoken like someone who lives off someone else's tit.

[TJones]

Damn. What's the story behind that?

Then you need a new provider.

I got jumped by 2 guys NYE of 2001. He got my hand also, at the same time because I had my fist coming around to knock his block off. He damn near cut my pinky finger off. My swing kept coming for his buddy though, and his buddy was bald. I hit the guy right above his right eye and basically carved his flesh down to his skull, because my actual bone knuckle was exposed it went about 7 inches from forehead to middle of his head. He wound up going to the hospital also for about 20 stitches in his head. The guy that actually stabbed me just got knocked out, and the dumbass wound up cutting his own hand in the process of trying to stab me. It was a mess, blood all over. I lost about 3 pints of blood between the club and Ben Taub, from the sizeable wound but it didn't help that I'm a borderline hemophiliac. A houston police officer that arrived on the scene actually saved my life, because the 2 idiot EMTs had no clue what a hemophiliac was, as I was trying to explain to the Banana Brothers that were trying to take care of me, the Cop jumped in the back and said, "The man is trying to tell you that he is a bleeder, and that he knows he needs lots of coagulant." Apparently the EMTs thought I was in shock, I was just going in and out of consciousness. I'm telling the cop just to sew me up on the way to stop the bleeding, he told me not to worry that he had two lines of plasma going, and that just sewing me up wouldn't be that simple as nobody knew what could be hurt in there. 18 inches across, I am not kidding, if it weren't for my will to live and a bit of girth on me, the doctors said that it was a mortal wound, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, I am here, nobody went to jail, because it was assault on both sides. However, someone allowed a knife in an establishment that makes more than 51% of their money from serving alcohol, so I will let Red tell you what you can do when that happens.

[TheNiche]

NEW provider? I'd be happy with the OLD provider!

Spoken like someone who lives off someone else's tit.

Nope. I'm young, single, without dependents, financially secure, upwardly-mobile, essentially invincible...and unfortunately my deductible on a pretty solid plan is still only $1,000. I say "unfortunately" because companies are given a substantial incentive to pay large portions of employees' compensation in benefits, which include health insurance, because benefits aren't taxable. I'd much rather eliminate that incentive so that companies (including mine, most likely) would be more likely to provide more cash compensation as a percentage of my pay. As it is, my good health just means that those coworkers of mine with poor health are receiving the benefit of being in my group. And of course, because so many more people have health insurance than they would have if the government left companies and people to their own devices, healthcare costs are higher because insured people are more able to consume more healthcare than the social optimum.

So it is in fact my titties that are being suckled! Damned male lactation...

Seriously, if I had the money that goes to my insurance policy, I could save and invest that money by my own set of standards so that when it comes time to need healthcare, I can pay my own way and still likely make out with a little extra on the side.

And I was being snipey, btw. I meant that if you want better healthcare, and you don't have health insurance, then you should work more hours or find another way to make more money, and pay for it yourself...or treat yourself right, so that you need less healthcare to begin with.

[DJ V Lawrence]

So it is in fact my titties that are being suckled! Damned male lactation...

Ah, the milking of America

Word on the street is that you have to wait 8 weeks to get a surgery or angioplasti after a massive coronary. good luck in ICU chief. Broken leg, come see us next week they say.

-----

Disagree, I'm living proof. 6.5 hours on the slab at Ben Taub's trauma center from a knife wound 18 inches long that fileted my spleen in the process. My insurance paid it and the ride in the ambulance. AETNA, I'm glad I met ya.

As I said before, it's literally word on the street. Quick question: If you had bad healthcare in Canada, or no healthcare in the USA, which would take longer for medical treatment, and which would cost more? I'm not trying to be cheeky; that's an honest question. I'm not too aware of Canada's health benefits.

Also, if you don't mind me asking about your insurance, AETNA. Was that provided by your job, or is that seperate from your job's benefits?

[TheNiche]

As I said before, it's literally word on the street. Quick question: If you had bad healthcare in Canada, or no healthcare in the USA, which would take longer for medical treatment, and which would cost more? I'm not trying to be cheeky; that's an honest question. I'm not too aware of Canada's health benefits.

For non-life-threatening proceedures, healthcare in the U.S. would cost more but the wait would be longer in Canada. In fact, wealthy Canadians or Canadians that can't wait for weeks at a time will sometimes come to the U.S. for treatment.

[RedScare]

Nope. I'm young, single, without dependents, financially secure, upwardly-mobile, essentially invincible...and unfortunately my deductible on a pretty solid plan is still only $1,000. I say "unfortunately" because companies are given a substantial incentive to pay large portions of employees' compensation in benefits, which include health insurance, because benefits aren't taxable. I'd much rather eliminate that incentive so that companies (including mine, most likely) would be more likely to provide more cash compensation as a percentage of my pay. As it is, my good health just means that those coworkers of mine with poor health are receiving the benefit of being in my group. And of course, because so many more people have health insurance than they would have if the government left companies and people to their own devices, healthcare costs are higher because insured people are more able to consume more healthcare than the social optimum.

So it is in fact my titties that are being suckled! Damned male lactation...

Seriously, if I had the money that goes to my insurance policy, I could save and invest that money by my own set of standards so that when it comes time to need healthcare, I can pay my own way and still likely make out with a little extra on the side.

And I was being snipey, btw. I meant that if you want better healthcare, and you don't have health insurance, then you should work more hours or find another way to make more money, and pay for it yourself...or treat yourself right, so that you need less healthcare to begin with.

Tough talk for a 22 year old with company provided insurance. As usual, you believe that everyone should just be like you, and then everything would be great. I don't mind youngsters like you thinking you are invincible. I DO mind when the government thinks that everyone should be that way. There is no possible way to explain to self-centered and selfish people why great countries provide for ALL of their citizens, not just those who can take for themselves. However, common decency dictates that we care for and assist those among us that are less fortunate...something that this country has lost along the way...and your comments exemplify that loss.

BTW, I have gone without health insurance for 14 of the last 24 years. I am able to do it because I have never been sick or injured, other than colds and ankle sprains, in spite of my drinking and smoking. Not everyone can cheat the doctor as I have. But, in a country that apparently has an extra half trillion dollars laying around to blow on unneeded wars, I would think we could throw a few bucks toward providing a safety net for our own citizens.

I realize that you see the tens of millions of ignorant or otherwise poor and middle class Americans as just so many people to be taken advantage of, but I do not. There is no debate to be had on this issue. You believe in "every man for himself". I believe that great societies are judged by how they treat their least fortunate members. The last 6 years, Congress has acted like your belief. I am hopeful that the next several years, Congress acts like mine.

[DJ V Lawrence]

In fact, wealthy Canadians or Canadians that can't wait for weeks at a time will sometimes come to the U.S. for treatment.

How ironic. Some of us Americans go to Canada for drugs.

[TheNiche]

Tough talk for a 22 year old with company provided insurance. As usual, you believe that everyone should just be like you, and then everything would be great. I don't mind youngsters like you thinking you are invincible. I DO mind when the government thinks that everyone should be that way. There is no possible way to explain to self-centered and selfish people why great countries provide for ALL of their citizens, not just those who can take for themselves. However, common decency dictates that we care for and assist those among us that are less fortunate...something that this country has lost along the way...and your comments exemplify that loss.

The company does not provide me insurance. It pays me insurance. It is a part of my compensation. Part of my earnings. And what is the root word of "earnings?" EARN. I earned it. I earn more than I actually receive, though, and it is a problem rooted in tax policy. It is, most essentially, a youth tax.

Common decency is not among my character traits. And thank goodness. Instead, I carry with me an uncommon decency, far exceeding the moral highground that you attempt to claim for yourself. You see, I do not advocate theft, but charity. Charity is not taxed; it is given.

BTW, I have gone without health insurance for 14 of the last 24 years. I am able to do it because I have never been sick or injured, other than colds and ankle sprains, in spite of my drinking and smoking. Not everyone can cheat the doctor as I have. But, in a country that apparently has an extra half trillion dollars laying around to blow on unneeded wars, I would think we could throw a few bucks toward providing a safety net for our own citizens.

Do not try and mix issues. You know better. In practice, there is no such limitation as a government budget. If a program should be expanded, then it will be expanded...on it's own merit. If it should be eliminated, then it will be eliminated...also on it's own merit.

I realize that you see the tens of millions of ignorant or otherwise poor and middle class Americans as just so many people to be taken advantage of, but I do not. There is no debate to be had on this issue. You believe in "every man for himself". I believe that great societies are judged by how they treat their least fortunate members. The last 6 years, Congress has acted like your belief. I am hopeful that the next several years, Congress acts like mine.

So you recognize that there are two belief systems and that they actively compete for political acceptance, but without clarifying the basis for your moral superiority, you do not recognize that there is a debate to be had? Some lawyer you are...

[nmainguy]

Common decency is not among my character traits.

There's no argument there considering your advocacy of leaving sick illegals to lie dying in the streets as an "example."

But no one is suprised by your self centered, self-involved broken-record pronouncements.

I just had to take you off ignore for a second to once again agree with you: you indeed do NOT have common decency.

The pathetic part is you seem so proud of it.

[TheNiche]

The pathetic part is you seem so proud of it.

Indeed I am. I am also proud of my uncommon sense. It is a pity that you do not share it.

[TJones]

Ah, the milking of America

As I said before, it's literally word on the street. Quick question: If you had bad healthcare in Canada, or no healthcare in the USA, which would take longer for medical treatment, and which would cost more? I'm not trying to be cheeky; that's an honest question. I'm not too aware of Canada's health benefits.

Also, if you don't mind me asking about your insurance, AETNA. Was that provided by your job, or is that seperate from your job's benefits?

Well, I have a new provider now, but yes that was through my job, but I paid for it. Every cent, my employer is so tight, if I stuck a lump of coal up it's arse, in two weeks I'd have a diamond. They have never contributed to my healthcare. Now, about a year or so later i actually had a slip and fall, LEGIT, at my employers, and had a full blown collapse of my abdominal wall, and a huge hernia as a result. THEY paid for that one, it was around $30,000 for that surgery, and it was funny because they are insured by Lloyd's of London but I get stuck with second rate insurance.

btw... I was being cheeky, and that IS really how long it takes for you to get medical care in Canada, if you have a massive coronary here in Houston, and you have no health insurance, you will be rushed to Ben Taub taken care of then they will bill you, and you will have to work out some sort of payment plan. No waiting.

I was rushed to Ben Taub, not because I didn't have insurance, it was because they have THE best trauma center in the United States, and that is a fact, so I think my lucky stars. But, of course the surgery they performed was all for not, because I got the hernia as a result from poor craftsmanship, but I am not a doctor, so that is just my opinion really. It was a rough year, what can I say.

How ironic. Some of us Americans go to Canada for drugs.

Now we can go to Walmart to get some of the same stuff for cheaper than Canada goods.

[westguy]

Wealthy Canadians may pay for expensive treatments here, but then I would bet that wealthy Americans pay for treatments as well. Everyone else is SOOL because their coverage is too limited or they are considered to risky to insure.

Again, these arguments have no basis in the real world.

if you have a massive coronary here in Houston, and you have no health insurance, you will be rushed to Ben Taub taken care of then they will bill you, and you will have to work out some sort of payment plan. No waiting.

That's why most people stay away from the doctor when they shouldn't.

[TJones]

Wealthy Canadians may pay for expensive treatments here, but then I would bet that wealthy Americans pay for treatments as well. Everyone else is SOOL because their coverage is too limited or they are considered to risky to insure.

Again, these arguments have no basis in the real world.

Westguy, do you think you and I should pay Cancer treatment costs for Americans that smoke 2 or 3 packs of cigarettes a day ? When the warning was right there in front of their face, 60 times a day ? They had enough money for cigarettes, they should have put a little aside to pay for some insurance. I honestly don't mind programs like Medicaid and the Texas Star program for children, or the elderly that are unable to work any longer. But I'll be damned if I will willingly pay for some Jackass looking for a payday, acting as if they have broken their foot, or some illegal who fell off a roof while putting shingles on, taking away a citizens job, becuase he'll do the work for half the money the job is worth. I am tired of that. I am tired of paying for illegal kids schooling who refuse to learn english, and we have to set up special courses for them. I am getting off track here. The bottomline is that we need to start weeding these people out, or find a new solution as to how to end welfare programs, or at least cut them back drastically to force these people who claim to be indigent get out there and work.

[dbigtex56]

The company does not provide me insurance. It pays me insurance. It is a part of my compensation. Part of my earnings. And what is the root word of "earnings?" EARN. I earned it. I earn more than I actually receive, though, and it is a problem rooted in tax policy. It is, most essentially, a youth tax.

Common decency is not among my character traits. And thank goodness. Instead, I carry with me an uncommon decency, far exceeding the moral highground that you attempt to claim for yourself. You see, I do not advocate theft, but charity. Charity is not taxed; it is given.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the company does provide you with insurance. They know that providing health insurance for all of its employees makes good economic sense. The fact that some of their employees might be foolish or arrogant enough to forgo insurance in exchange for a higher wage is not lost on them. They do not offer this option because some people simply lack the life experience which is needed to make wise choices. They don't want to take that chance.

Goodness is not to be thanked for your "uncommon decency". Poor parenting is. How sad that your moral development was so neglected. You reap the benefits of a stable society, yet resent paying your fair share. Or did you simply forget to enumerate your prodigious acts of charity? Perhaps there are places which do not advocate the "theft" to which you're so opposed - but they are not among the economically advanced industrialized nations.

[RedScare]

Westguy, do you think you and I should pay Cancer treatment costs for Americans that smoke 2 or 3 packs of cigarettes a day ? When the warning was right there in front of their face, 60 times a day ? They had enough money for cigarettes, they should have put a little aside to pay for some insurance. I honestly don't mind programs like Medicaid and the Texas Star program for children, or the elderly that are unable to work any longer. But I'll be damned if I will willingly pay for some Jackass looking for a payday, acting as if they have broken their foot, or some illegal who fell off a roof while putting shingles on, taking away a citizens job, becuase he'll do the work for half the money the job is worth. I am tired of that. I am tired of paying for illegal kids schooling who refuse to learn english, and we have to set up special courses for them. I am getting off track here. The bottomline is that we need to start weeding these people out, or find a new solution as to how to end welfare programs, or at least cut them back drastically to force these people who claim to be indigent get out there and work.

TJ, you have gotten into details, when we don't even have a program. It is possible to have a bare bones, no frills health care program that does not pay for elective surgery that is not needed to prolong life, or to put non life threatening surgery on a waiting list. For those unable to afford insurance, this sure beats having nothing. Those that can afford, or have employers that will pay for insurance, can have better coverage without a wait. But, the safety net can be provided, and should be, because many of the benefits of being an American are provided by the working poor.

As for illegals getting free medical, they do not. They are required to pay. Under a national health care program, there is no reason to let non-citizens be covered either. As for kids refusing to learn English, you should do some research. Children of immigrants learn English quickly, and further, WANT to learn. As for cutting back welfare (there is no such thing, but you probably mean AFDC), you should read up on what welfare reform, passed during the Clinton administration, has done. I'll give you a hint. It hasn't gone up.

[nmainguy]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the company does provide you with insurance. They know that providing health insurance for all of its employees makes good economic sense. The fact that some of their employees might be foolish or arrogant enough to forgo insurance in exchange for a higher wage is not lost on them. They do not offer this option because some people simply lack the life experience which is needed to make wise choices. They don't want to take that chance.

The company pays a portion of the insurance-not 100%. I would challange any 22 YO to go out and purchase an Aetna quality policy at a cheaper price than his employee plan. Even the additional compensation his employer is more than not likly to provide would never make up the difference.

Thankfully-as you pointed out-reputable employers see the value of aiding their employees with assistance toward insurance. It's good buisness sense. Keeping the employee healthy=better over-all productivity...even for a 22 YO who may or may not have been raised in a cave by wild dogs.

[nmainguy]

I was rushed to Ben Taub, not because I didn't have insurance, it was because they have THE best trauma center in the United States, and that is a fact, so I think my lucky stars.

Absolutly the best. If it were not for Ben Taub, my best friend would be my dead best friend.

And I know my good friend Mr. Jones would never let a needing illegal go without emergency care-or anyone else for that matter-even though he may delicate flower a little.

[webdude]

I don't like my tax dollars spent on broken welfare programs. I don't like my tax dollars spent on useless wars either, I guess we can all agree government is wasting our money one way or another.

[TheNiche]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the company does provide you with insurance. They know that providing health insurance for all of its employees makes good economic sense. The fact that some of their employees might be foolish or arrogant enough to forgo insurance in exchange for a higher wage is not lost on them. They do not offer this option because some people simply lack the life experience which is needed to make wise choices. They don't want to take that chance.

Ah, but that is only accurate for some companies and some employees. It certainly applies to key staff members or those that have specialized training, but probably not so much to me. I'm replacable.

To clarify, my argument is not that employer-provided health insurance will disappear without the tax incentive, but that it will be reduced, and that it is to my benefit, as my circumstances do not merit the cost of health insurance. Even those employees that were still given health insurance for the reasons that you mentioned would probably get a reduced form of coverage that, for instance, does not cover pregnancy costs or other expenses for which employees have a choice or that might reduce their productivity or time spent on the job.

Goodness is not to be thanked for your "uncommon decency". Poor parenting is. How sad that your moral development was so neglected. You reap the benefits of a stable society, yet resent paying your fair share. Or did you simply forget to enumerate your prodigious acts of charity? Perhaps there are places which do not advocate the "theft" to which you're so opposed - but they are not among the economically advanced industrialized nations.

I tip well. Seriously though, it is hard for me to bring myself to contribute a cent more than is already stolen from my paycheck. I pay my unfair share already. Even so, my propensity to make cash contributions will increase as my earnings does. Of that you can be sure. Much more importantly, by contributing to the charitable cause of my choosing, I'll have a better idea of where the money goes...and the assurance that it'll be used to generate more benefit per dollar than the government could ever dream of. I would be reasonably satisfied if the federal government at least changed policy so as to eliminate all of its social programs, instead requiring that taxpayers allocate some amount of their tax dollars to non-profit entities of their choosing, and also requiring more transparency among non-profits so as to ensure market-like efficiency. In that way, taxpayers would be able to prioritize their moral obligations.

As for your comments on my own moral development, baseless ad hominems will get you nowhere. If someone were to tell you the following with a straight face, how do you think you'd react?

"Goodness is not to be thanked for your homosexuality. Poor parenting is. How sad that your moral development was so neglected. You reap the benefits of a life that would not have been possible without reproductive sex the way God intended it, yet turn your back on him by refusing to carry on and grant life to another. Or did you simply forget Genesis 1:28, where it says "be fruitful and multiply"? Didn't say anything about being fruity. Perhaps there are places which do not embrace our Lord and Savior to which you're so opposed - but they are not among the economically advanced industrialized nations."

Now was that not the steamiest load of bovine feces that you've ever laid eyes upon? But from my perspective, that's about the equivalent of what you've told me. It is a baseless insult.

Under a national health care program, there is no reason to let non-citizens be covered either.

[GASP] Did you hear that nmainguy? And he didn't even preempt the statement by stating anything about embracing all immigrants that fill out the paperwork and aren't security threats, thus eliminating the need for illegal trespass. That was my only criteria.

[TheNiche]

The company pays a portion of the insurance-not 100%. I would challange any 22 YO to go out and purchase an Aetna quality policy at a cheaper price than his employee plan. Even the additional compensation his employer is more than not likly to provide would never make up the difference.

Thankfully-as you pointed out-reputable employers see the value of aiding their employees with assistance toward insurance. It's good buisness sense. Keeping the employee healthy=better over-all productivity...even for a 22 YO who may or may not have been raised in a cave by wild dogs.

Why would I want to purchase a health insurance plan? It wouldn't make financial sense. That's my whole point!

Btw, just to clear up my parentage, each of my parents are occupational therapists. One works for a school district and another has been bouncing around the private sector for the last decade, looking for an employer that won't try to commit medicare fraud with him as an accomplice. A couple of his previous employers got busted, as did an employer of my mom's when she tried moonlighting a few years back.

Now, if we can dispense with the personal insults. It says a lot about an argument when one side can do little more than insult the other. It doesn't help.

[Heights2Bastrop]

The whole argument here seems to be about health care coverage. That is not the problem. The real issue should be skyrocketing health care costs, as well as astronomical prescription costs.

I heard this some time back, but I can

[TheNiche]

Congress could easily rein in the medical and drug companies and force lower costs. But that will never happen as long as there are loads of lobbyists corrupting those who could right so many wrongs. But, I guess that

[RedScare]

Seriously though, it is hard for me to bring myself to contribute a cent more than is already stolen from my paycheck. I pay my unfair share already.

You do not pay your fair share of taxes. You enjoy the benefits of living in this country, while the country runs a huge deficit. Until the country pays its own way, its citizens are not paying their fair share. Furthermore, if you are as well off as you claim to be, you are actually enjoying more of the benefits of this country than those less fortunate than you. You also consume more government services than they, as the wealthy require and demand more police, courts and prisons than the poor, as they have more to protect. They also demand smoother streets, more highways, more water, fancier schools...the list goes on. And, in another thread, you advocated wasting more of this country's borrowed money by sending even more troops to Iraq than the even the president is sending.

No, you are not paying your fair share.

Oh, and BTW, those poor pharmaceutical companies only comprise the most profitable sector of the stock market, even beating out oil companies. Woe is them.

[TheNiche]

You do not pay your fair share of taxes. You enjoy the benefits of living in this country, while the country runs a huge deficit. Until the country pays its own way, its citizens are not paying their fair share.

No, you are not paying your fair share.

You demonstrate a poor comprehension of macroeconomics. Government deficit spending has the effect of crowding out investments to private sector. This effect is really bad when the economy is at or near full employment, which it is.

If nothing else, remember this: nothing is free.

Furthermore, if you are as well off as you claim to be, you are actually enjoying more of the benefits of this country than those less fortunate than you. You also consume more government services than they, as the wealthy require and demand more police, courts and prisons than the poor, as they have more to protect. They also demand smoother streets, more highways, more water, fancier schools...the list goes on.

I am indeed generally well-off within the context of the general population, but not financially well-off to warrant more charitable contributions than are already forced from me. Why do you see things in such black and white terms? A person does not either contribute all of his surplus funds to charity, making him good, or none at all, making him bad. A person contributes that amount of their income which maximizes their utility function. And for almost all people, that means that there is a middle ground. Such is the case with myself. There is an optimal level of satisfaction from charity that I wish to buy. The satisfaction is comparable to any other good that I might buy, but it is most definitely a luxury good. That is to say that my consumption of satisfaction from charity will increase exponentially as my earnings rise.

You are correct that wealthier people tend to demand more social goods, but again, all is not black or white. I tend to demand fewer such goods, and prefer emphasizing government efficiency and reform as the goal rather than additional government funding. Frankly, a lot of those things could be scaled back IMO. Perhaps I do not fit the stereotype. So be it. I am an individual. Aren't you?

And, in another thread, you advocated wasting more of this country's borrowed money by sending even more troops to Iraq than the even the president is sending.

On that matter, I am of the opinion that continuing on the same course will be a waste of money and that doing a little more will be a waste of money. We have two realistic options: 1) commit overwhelming force to the operation and execute it swiftly and efficiently, scaling back troop levels immediately upon completion, and leaving Iraq completely within less than a year after that, or 2) leave now and don't look back. If the world (and not just the U.S.) were less dependent upon oil from that region, I'd say to get the hell out of there. But if that region blows up, involving Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq, or possibly others, and oil infrastructure is destroyed, then we're looking at the potential for a global recession in the midst of a genocide that we would have caused. Never mind the psychological impact of a military loss on our part or the lesson taught the world about how to defeat the U.S. in a military conflict... Never mind that we will have demonstrated (once again) to the developing world and to moderate Muslims that we don't give a patootey about them... What I'm talking about is an insurance policy against recession and genocide...one that I admit is expensive and that will be paid in blood.

I'm not happy about that conclusion. I'm not happy about being there. But we're there. It's a sunk cost. Now we've just got to live in the present. And the present sucks, but it could suck worse. That's what I suggest we avoid.

Oh, and BTW, those poor pharmaceutical companies only comprise the most profitable sector of the stock market, even beating out oil companies. Woe is them.

Yeah, Red. That is an indication of their inherent risk. That goes toward proving my point.

See the link that I provided in the previous thread. You'll note that some do really good and a lot of them crater. If investors weren't compensated for risk, they wouldn't get investment and R&D would die off.

[TJones]

OK..........I'm back, what did I miss ?

Seriously, Nmain is right, I wouldn't step over anyone that needed help. I just know that the system is being abuse daily by citizens and non-citizens alike and it needs t be stopped. bigtex, Niche is right in that some companies do offer full health benefits as a way to compensate for a lack of salary. Whereas you might not consider it part of a salary, I promise you that the company views it that way. My company has a like policy, but it only applies to certain higher positions in the company, whereas say, "middle management" gets a slight rebate, if you will, in the cost of their healthcare and not a full on coverage parachute of compensation. Or, you can pay for your coverage yourself and take a bigger slice of the percentage pie of net gross profits.

Red, like I said, I was getting off track there. I am sure the young ones WANT to learn, it is the illegal teens and pre-teens, who seem to want to buck the system, so we had to put special programs in place for them. I wish you could come stay one or two days with me and listen to the never ending calls we field of folks asking for a "Spanish speaker". They ask me if I speak Spanish, and I will tell them , " No, do you speak English ?" They say no, a little, and we muddle on through, with my bad spanglish from wasted years managing restaurants and talking to absolutely awesome cooks whose broken English was as bad as my Spanish.

I am tired of hearing the people say GW doesn't care about black people, when there is $600million MORE earmarked for Katrina victims and Mayor Nagin won't ask for it. I am wondering why a proposal of $700million is being debated on whether or not we should send it to help Lebanon, YES, help Lebanon, screw Lebanon, we got bigger fish to fry right here. Let's finish what we started in Iraq, kick the s-h-i-t out of them and get them to playball our way, no more handtying of our troops, THIS IS A WAR ! If Nagin won't take the money then take it off the table and put it into the schools. Take the $700 million for Lebanon and use it for the homeless RIGHT HERE ! Where does it end ? We need to get back to the business of taking care of America FIRST ! Let's get our own house in order before we try to straighten out anybody else's problems at this point.

[nmainguy]

[GASP] Did you hear that nmainguy? And he didn't even preempt the statement by stating anything about embracing all immigrants that fill out the paperwork and aren't security threats, thus eliminating the need for illegal trespass. That was my only criteria.

Actually your only criteria was leaving illegals to die in the gutter as an example. Once again your attempt to weazel out of your inhumane belief by using another member's post has only highlighted the vacancy of your morality. We all read what Red said and I'm sure none of us took it as advocating leaving illegals to lie bleeding in the gutters to serve as an example. Perhaps should you ever travel to Mexico City or Tokyo; be hit by a bus and left choking on your own blood because someone thought you were an illegal immigrant who deserved to die as an example, remember what you so fervently advocate when you suggest Americans should do the same. Personally, I would like to see you depart the US and never return as your lack of humanity is a danger to public health as well as an insult to us all.

[TheNiche]

Actually your only criteria was leaving illegals to die in the gutter as an example. Once again your attempt to weazel out of your inhumane belief by using another member's post has only highlighted the vacancy of your morality. We all read what Red said and I'm sure none of us took it as advocating leaving illegals to lie bleeding in the gutters to serve as an example. Perhaps should you ever travel to Mexico City or Tokyo; be hit by a bus and left choking on your own blood because someone thought you were an illegal immigrant who deserved to die as an example, remember what you so fervently advocate when you suggest Americans should do the same.

You misrepresent me. No surprise. You've done it dozens of times, so here we are again.

An analogy wherein I am a wounded traveler to a foreign land is a terribly weak one. See, I have respect for the sovereignty of other countries. I'd fill out the paperwork that is asked of me and do sufficient research to be aware of hazards to travel, possibly aborting my trip if conditions were sufficiently poor. And if I were to fall ill or be wounded, I have little doubt that someone would tend to me...after all, I'd be carrying currency or cash equivalents. I pay my way. ...and if all else failed, and someone had to help me out, well that's fine too because I'm not too proud to accept help when I need it...but I don't necessarily expect that that person will be a government servant.

This is basically what I expect of foreign visitors to the U.S.

Personally, I would like to see you depart the US and never return as your lack of humanity is a danger to public health as well as an insult to us all.

Hmm...so you consider me a danger to the public health, and all you're doing is banishing me to a foreign land, where I can be a danger to other people? Since you don't seem as concerned about the welfare non-citizens of the U.S. that might come into contact with me, I think that's grounds for interpreting your comments as nationalist rhetoric. It'd make more sense if you just had me imprisoned for my beliefs so that I couldn't harm anybody, and then just suspend habeas corpus. And the concept that "if you don't agree with me, then move abroad" is something that has been thrown around a lot by right wing nuts. And you have established yourself as the infallable moral superior. And you're the only person on this board who has ever posted Nazi symbols (see, I can misrepresent too). And you associated with someone who gleefully showed that symbol to a Jew. Do you own a white hood and robe...er, a ghost costume?

In all seriousness, though you sometimes sound more like Pat Buchanon than anyone with whom I've ever extensively interacted. And that's just weird...

[nmainguy]

You misrepresent me. No surprise. You've done it dozens of times, so here we are again.

Should I repost your remark in order to show our fellow HAIFer's your lame attempt at weazaling out of you own words?

And you're the only person on this board who has ever posted Nazi symbols (see, I can misrepresent too). And you associated with someone who gleefully showed that symbol to a Jew. Do you own a white hood and robe...er, a ghost costume?

Well there you have it. You have driven the point home by using a reply to your very own thread where I showed my disgust at a fellow employee's stupidity.

I would say nice try if it wasn't so pathetic. I'd be glad to repost that as well but maybe I'll spare you the embarrasment.