Black Hole: Vast Prairies That Lie South Of The Loop

[TheNiche]

I have a theory about the vast prairies that lie south of the Loop, north of the Beltway, and along both sides of 288, extending from about Scott Street back towards Highway 90A. Am I right, or is this just some fluke that we have countryside so close to such a burgeoning urban area? The theory goes like this:

Development in the area has historically been slow; the reason for this is likely that State Highway 288 was completed as a freeway in 1984, just prior to a major regional downturn that was particularly hard-felt in the housing market. As the region began to emerge from the downturn, much of the prairie land through which the freeway had been built remained undisturbed, but the few neighborhoods that had been built in the area prior to the freeway

[Trae]

South of 610 and north of Beltway 8 is a undesirable area to many. There are some housing going on just north of the Beltway (KB Home, Beazer Homes, etc.). Nothing high-end. I hope this area gets going, though. It is real close to Downtown Houston. Reminds me of City South San Antonio. Houston should probably do something like this.

[Guest danax]

I've wondered that too. I just figured it was because the southern areas of Houston were just non-descript neighborhoods that no one was interested in redeveloping, yet. Black areas are scarier to developers too as people, correctly or not, assume crime is higher. That area has some flooding too.You could wonder the same thing about the area north of the North Loop and south of 8. Pearland was attractive because of the big tracts of raw land available and no "bad" neighborhoods to contend with.

Pearland pushing north is already causing some action between 610 and 8.

[TheNiche]

I've wondered that too. I just figured it was because the southern areas of Houston were just non-descript neighborhoods that no one was interested in redeveloping, yet. Black areas are scarier to developers too as people, correctly or not, assume crime is higher. That area has some flooding too.You could wonder the same thing about the area north of the North Loop and south of 8. Pearland was attractive because of the big tracts of raw land available and no "bad" neighborhoods to contend with.

But historically, if you look at other parts of town, like around Acres Homes, developers seem to have followed a pretty predictable progression outward. I mean, Acres has never been much to look at, but it didn't keep Inwood from going in.

Also, at least on the west side of 288, the crappy residential areas only tend to start south of the alignment of Airport Blvd. North of there is prairie...so even before 288 existed, why didn't the prairie fill in first?

Pearland pushing north is already causing some action between 610 and 8.

Pearland is only causing any impact to Houston at all because they've zoned out apartments. As a result, most of what should've been in Pearland has been pushed into this hole. There is a particularly large complex off of Orem that has recently gone in.

[gnu]

I'll bet a lot of it has to do with it being in HISD.

Development occurred in the closest place to houston that wasn't in HISD

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Here's the reason I've been given to explain why development bypassed the area between the South Loop and the South Belt:

HISD

HISD is just a tougher sell than Pasadena ISD, Pearland ISD and Clear Creek ISD which are all right around the Beltway.

And I think Danax speaks a lot of truth. Many white people are afraid of living near large populations of black people. And for that matter, white people tend not to want to live near large populations of Latinos as well. It's amazing in this day and age that white flight still exists...but it does.

Being a white guy in an all-black neighborhood, I'm constantly amazed at the attitudes of many of my white co-workers and friends. To hear them speak, I might as well be living in the middle of Darfur.

[dalparadise]

Another consideration is 288, itself. 288 is a freeway mainly to serve truck traffic for Port Freeport in Southern Brazoria County. If no giant port were there, 288 would be a 2-lane highway and would never have allowed Pearland to grow like it has.

288 also runs through protected wetlands and is prohibited from developing feeder roads and commercial developments directly adjacent to it. Witness the weird developments just off the highway at 518 as proof of this.

Because of this, the linear sprawl cannot gain steam here as elsewhere.

[TheNiche]

To hear them speak, I might as well be living in the middle of Darfur.

Yeah, I can relate. When I first got into the real estate biz, my very first project was in your hood. My aunt insisted that she tag along and pack heat to ensure that I didn't get shot while I was scoping things out and taking photos of comps and the general area. Not having lived in Houston for that long, I took her half-seriously...that is just unseriously enough to do it by myself and unarmed, but seriously enough to be really really on guard the whole time, with a near-constant adrenaline rush and seriously negative bias.

But as I went about doing my own thing, it became more and more apparent that folks were really very accepting...they certainly noticed and paid close attention to the white guy in dark sunglasses and business attire (complete with tie and sports jacket on one day) walking down the street with a nice new camera with a long telescoping lens, occaisionally snapping pics of retail centers and apartment complexes from a distance (or possibly in their minds, the people standing outside of them)...don't get me wrong about that. But I got more questions about my welfare and safety than I did for handouts...or for that matter my camera. Turns out that most of the residents of these areas are older folks with a strong moral core. Who'd've thunk it?

Now, that doesn't mean that my first choice for a place of residence is South Union, but there are worse places.

[TheNiche]

Another consideration is 288, itself. 288 is a freeway mainly to serve truck traffic for Port Freeport in Southern Brazoria County. If no giant port were there, 288 would be a 2-lane highway and would never have allowed Pearland to grow like it has.

288 also runs through protected wetlands and is prohibited from developing feeder roads and commercial developments directly adjacent to it. Witness the weird developments just off the highway at 518 as proof of this.

Because of this, the linear sprawl cannot gain steam here as elsewhere.

Actually, TXDoT didn't build feeder roads, but that doesn't mean that private developers can't do it for them out of their own pockets, if they own the land. There's already a section or two where this is about to happen. Also, to my knowledge, there are no protected wetlands along 288 inside of the beltway. Sims Bayou is a ditch.

You're right that the typical form of linear commercial sprawl is still affected adversely, but I'm not really asking why there isn't more commercial development, so much as I am why there aren't more rooftops just off of the highway.

[VicMan]

Here's the reason I've been given to explain why development bypassed the area between the South Loop and the South Belt:

HISD

HISD is just a tougher sell than Pasadena ISD, Pearland ISD and Clear Creek ISD which are all right around the Beltway.

And I think Danax speaks a lot of truth. Many white people are afraid of living near large populations of black people. And for that matter, white people tend not to want to live near large populations of Latinos as well. It's amazing in this day and age that white flight still exists...but it does.

Being a white guy in an all-black neighborhood, I'm constantly amazed at the attitudes of many of my white co-workers and friends. To hear them speak, I might as well be living in the middle of Darfur.

Specifically, a lot of the reason why has to do with Worthing, Sterling, and Madison High Schools and their feeder schools - A lot of people don't want to deal with them.

On the other hand, the area around Westside High School (HISD) was built out quickly after Westside opened.

However, there are some new developments, including:

* Paving of the Sims Bayou

* New subdivisions like Corinthian Pointe, City Park, Morningside Place, Panay Park, additional subdivisions of the Village of Glen Iris, etc.

HISD opened a new elementary school in the area (Jean Hines-Caldwell) - Meanwhile, HISD closed Fairchild Elementary in the Sunnyside area. Maybe the Madison attendance zone is more attractive than the Worthing zone?

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[musicman]

Remember too that roads were never developed. Almeda genoa was the only road that went from the se side to the sw side. I believe just south of the loop there was a superfund site as well. i think by the golf course. 10 yrs ago or so they connected airport blvd to 288 and recently orem was extended to almeda genoa @ telephone road. These are about the only roads that have been added in yrs.

Edited October 25, 2006 by musicman

[VicMan]

MLK, if possible, should go all the way to Beltway 8 (instead of stopping at Almeda-Genoa Road)

I should see if Scott is built out to the Beltway yet - I know it runs south of Airport now, but I'm not sure how far it runs.

[TheNiche]

MLK, if possible, should go all the way to Beltway 8 (instead of stopping at Almeda-Genoa Road)

I should see if Scott is built out to the Beltway yet - I know it runs south of Airport now, but I'm not sure how far it runs.

It unceremoniously stops near Orem after passing through a really odd collection of big gaudy churches.

[VicMan]

It unceremoniously stops near Orem after passing through a really odd collection of big gaudy churches.

According to a map of the area, there are still "pieces" of Scott that are not connected to each other.

According to this - http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn76lu.html - There may be a few houses in the way - I bet the said houses are older, so I would eminent domain them so the road could be built - And, of course, compensate the owners with shiny new houses erected along the new sections of Scott Street

That way, that little cute area along Fellows Road just north of the Beltway is connected to Scott Street.

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn76lu.html

What that area needs is a full-fledged grocery store... The nearest Kroger is at 8323 Broadway in Pearland, TX 77584. The nearest Randalls is at 2850 West FM 518 in Pearland, TX 77584. The nearest HEB is at 6102 Scott Street in Houston, TX 77021.

[VicMan]

BTW- There's a new YMCA - West Orem Family YMCA - In the area.

See http://www.ymca.net/yprofile/?assn=6482

Also, the black hole has two public libraries so far:

* Johnson Branch - 3517 Reed Road

* Vinson Branch - 3100 West Fuqua

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[westguy76]

There are already people I know complaining about the walmart built on 518 just east of 288. They say where did all the black people come from? I have been in there and it does not appear to represent the racial make-up of the area. But guess the lack of shopping to the north has a lot of people traveling down cullen to 518. I think the answer as to the lack of the development is right on with the school district and the south acres area along with the industrial businesses mostly along the west side as you get nearer to town

[VicMan]

As for a thread about the specific Corinthian Pointe subdivision, see http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=5971

This thread discusses Angel Lane, which is a part of the Village of Glen Iris: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...p;hl=Angel+Lane

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[FilioScotia]

I have a theory about the vast prairies that lie south of the Loop, north of the Beltway, and along both sides of 288, extending from about Scott Street back towards Highway 90A. Am I right, or is this just some fluke that we have countryside so close to such a burgeoning urban area? But are there more specific matters?

The area south of 610, west of 288 and Almeda Rd, and east of Hiram Clarke has a checkered history. For openers, it was the scene of a fairly large oil field in the 1920s. That oil field was on both sides of what is now Almeda Road and Hwy 288, and extended east most of the way to Mykawa Rd.

Remember the lawsuits filed in the early 90s by the people in the Kennedy Heights neighborhood? Kennedy Heights is east of Cullen and south of Selinsky. People there claimed living on top of former oil field sludge pits was making them sick and causing birth defects. They never produced a shred of evidence to back up their claims of deformed babies with brain damage, and it was all so bogus that even the most famous ambulance chaser in the country -- Houston's own John O'Quinn -- dumped them when it became clear the lawsuits were going nowhere. Unfortunately, memories of Kennedy Heights and houses built over sludge pits still resonate all over that end of town.

Evidence of the oil field is still visible west of Almeda Rd, and to the east to a lesser extent. There was also a very large landfill on Holmes Rd. I think it's closed now, but in any event, nobody is building anything on it, and most of the area we're talking about looks like a wasteland because that's what it is.

As for why no one has developed this area, I've read all the postings on this thread and I have to disagree with those who say it's because the area is mostly black. There are just too many areas around Houston where people of all races live side by side and get along just fine. The area east of 288 has developed, and, sadly, it has become a ghetto that's in a serious state of decline. I will agree that race is probably a factor in the way this area has been allowed to decay, but I don't think race figures in the lack of new development in the undeveloped area. Look at the success of the loft apartments on the edge of Freedmen's Town in the 4th ward near downtown.

West of Almeda, I can't help but observe that development picks up as you get farther away from the "wasted" looking area. Almeda Plaza to the south, and the area west of there around Madison High School, and north to Allum Rd. Looking at the map, that former oil field and landfill looks like a large undeveloped island in the middle of a sea of development.

I think it's because, so far, no developer has had the guts to take a chance on it. I also think that at some point, a brave developer with a lot of cash will step up and spend whatever it takes to clean it up, and when he or she succeeds, others will follow. It will happen fairly soon, and I predict the area will be completely developed within 20 years. I also think people with money to invest long term could do a lot worse than buy land in that area today, because it's going to be worth a lot more 10 and 15 years from now.

Edited October 25, 2006 by FilioScotia

[wheels]

Schools are certainly a part of it, but affordable housing could still be built and would be successful. The big issue is the environmental problems from the oil fields. It is the same issue that keeps a lot of the land on 45 South around 2351/Clear Lake City Blvd. vacant. FYI, The Wildcat Golf Club was built on the old landfill site. A great and brilliant use of the land.

Edited October 25, 2006 by wheels

[VicMan]

By the way, there IS a grocery store in the area.

Fiesta operates a store at 9420 Cullen - http://www.fiestamart.com/maps/51.htm

But the Madison HS attendance zone ought to get a chain grocery store too!

I have an idea for a name for a new area subdivision: Why not call it North Pearland and have it use the Pearland name to promote itself?

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[FilioScotia]

By the way, there IS a grocery store in the area. Fiesta operates a store at 9420 Cullen - http://www.fiestamart.com/maps/51.htm

But the Madison HS attendance zone ought to get a chain grocery store too!

Madison HS sits in the middle of a highly developed residential and commercial area. There's at least one major supermarket just several blocks down at the corner of W. Orem and Hiram Clarke. There are at least several more. Windsor Village is nearby on the other side of W. Orem.

[RedScare]

There are already people I know complaining about the walmart built on 518 just east of 288. They say where did all the black people come from?

Black people? EEEWWWWW! Can't a guy shop at WalMart without Black people coming in there and buying the same stuff that you do? Where's Jim Crow when you need him?

[MidtownCoog]

Every native Houstonian knows the land down that way is toxic.

Maybe we can create a new subdivision down there for all the Yankees.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

It unceremoniously stops near Orem after passing through a really odd collection of big gaudy churches.

Churches are a dead give away for people to know you are in a mostly black neighborhood. Ever notice how many churches are in mostly black neighborhoods?

[VicMan]

Madison HS sits in the middle of a highly developed residential and commercial area. There's at least one major supermarket just several blocks down at the corner of W. Orem and Hiram Clarke. There are at least several more. Windsor Village is nearby on the other side of W. Orem.

There's a Fiesta at 12360 Main.. http://www.fiestamart.com/maps/22.htm

Still - why not have a supermarket closer to the intersection of Beltway 8 and 288?

By the way, while the area around Madison HS itself is developed, there are areas within the Madison attendance zone which remain undeveloped.

*City of Houston usage map for Super Neighborhood #40 (most of the Madison HS attendance boundary is in this super neighborhood): http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn40lu.html (Areas west of Almeda are in the Madison HS boundary)

*Usage map for Super Neighborhood #39 - http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn39lu.html

*Usage map for Super Neighborhood #35 - http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn35lu.html (portions outside of 610 are in Madison HS' boundary)

*Usage map for Super Neighborhood #38 - http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn38lu.html (portions east of Stella Link are in Madison HS' boundary)

*HISD Madison attendance boundary map: http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolbounda...s/MadisonHS.pdf

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[FilioScotia]

There's a Fiesta at 12360 Main.. http://www.fiestamart.com/maps/22.htm

Still - why not have a supermarket closer to the intersection of Beltway 8 and 288?

By the way, while the area around Madison HS itself is developed, there are areas within the Madison attendance zone which remain undeveloped.

You're helping me to make my point, which is that there's considerable development outside that large oil field/landfill area south of 610, west of Almeda Rd, and east of Hiram Clarke. Every city map I know of shows that large vacant area, surrounded by development. The area around Madison HS is just one example. I thought this undeveloped and underdeveloped area is what Niche wanted to talk about when he started this thread. It appears everybody else wants to talk about other places.

[VicMan]

You're helping me to make my point, which is that there's considerable development outside that large oil field/landfill area south of 610, west of Almeda Rd, and east of Hiram Clarke. Every city map I know of shows that large vacant area, surrounded by development. The area around Madison HS is just one example. I thought this undeveloped and underdeveloped area is what Niche wanted to talk about when he started this thread. It appears everybody else wants to talk about other places.

Yeah, and thread also refers to land east of 288 in the Worthing High School attendance zone, as well as some land in the Sterling High School attendance zone.

EDIT: Yep -

"I have a theory about the vast prairies that lie south of the Loop, north of the Beltway, and along both sides of 288, extending from about Scott Street back towards Highway 90A. Am I right, or is this just some fluke that we have countryside so close to such a burgeoning urban area? The theory goes like this:

"

He's talking about both sides of 288. He was talking about that strip AND a few others too.

Edited October 25, 2006 by VicMan

[KinkaidAlum]

There are a lot of new homes going up just East of 288 and North of the Beltway.

A buddy of mine bought a place off of Cullen down that way. His entire neighborhood is new and he is surrounded by new developments. It's odd driving down there though... you pass that huge apartment complex which appears to be sitting all by itself and then you exit at Almeda-Genoa and see a KB homes area called Skyline something or other. As you head East on A-G the area appears to be a funky rural mix. There are horses out infront of houses, signs for Asian Truck Stops coming soon, feed stores, and what appears to be a black cowboy business. You make that right on Cullen and all of a sudden, the roadway scenery turns into giant new cookie-cutter hoods.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

There are already people I know complaining about the walmart built on 518 just east of 288. They say where did all the black people come from? I have been in there and it does not appear to represent the racial make-up of the area.

It may not be the racial make-up of Pearland, but it's definitely the racial makeup of the area.

I bet all the black people are asking themselves where all these white people came from!

[musicman]

in the past there were no roads that connected the area north of the beltway to the area south of the beltway. now there are. The blacks have always been right there. nothing new.