North Korea's Nuclear Test

[DJ V Lawrence]

I think something's fishy about the reports. How would it take so long to confirm if a nuclear test took place or not with the satelite and seismograph technology we have? Kim Jung-Il's played bluff before. Not sure if I'm willing to believe him on this one until North Korea sends the world a video of the test.

North Korea still need to get some serious U.N. sanctions though. And it's great news that China's angry, too.

[DJ V Lawrence]

China's angry cause N Korea didnt 'consulte' them before the tests. I dont get what the hell the moron wants anyways. Whats wrong with him?

He (Kim Jung-Il) wants to be seen. He releks in the art of the ass-kisser, i.e. the million of his workers. I couldn't agree more; he's gone over his head by defying China. China strongly urged N.K. to stay away from producing nuclear arms, but N.K. claims to hav done it and said "so what"? Yea, you could teach people to hate America, but to diss your #1 trade partner, food supply, and defender is flat-out suicidal.

If Bush is smart (and I can hear some chuckling going throughout HAIF right about now), he'll leave this up to the U.N. and John Bolton to decide what the U.S. should do. (It's hard to push the U.N. to do something for you when you yourself have delibrately defied the U.N.) Let the sanctions come into play. I would LOVE to see China get more involved though. If there were a naval blockade, how would North Korea react if those ships were Chinese ships? Or what would happen if China one day said, "we will no longer send food to North Korea," and arrested anyone along the border they caught crossing illegally? I think you'd start seeing signs of a regime collapse within 2 months. Desperate people do desperate things. I think it'd take 8 months minimum for N.K. to construct a successful nuclear weapon.

I think China simply needs to tell N.K. that they will end all aid to North Korea until they shut down their nuclear program to the U.N. justifications. China has enough troops to secure the border should the refugee thing happen. North Korea shoots citizens they see trying to leave North Korea, so that says a lot.

[nmainguy]

Looks like it was a fizzle anyway: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/10/world/as...artner=homepage

[MidtownCoog]

I wonder what Madeline Halfbright has to say?

Cheers?

[torvald]

Yeah, you find that alot throughout American History. That picture isnt an abnormality nor the exception.

Donald Rumsfeld made deals with Saddam Hussein.

the CIA trained Al Qaeda

the Iran-Contra Affair with Iran's Theocratic Government

Clinton authorized Westinghouse (American Corporation) to sell some sort of nuclear technology to N Korea.

It all comes back to bite your ass.

NMM, what is your avitar?

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wonder what Madeline Halfbright has to say?

Cheers?

Trying to remember the year of that Albright trip. I think it was '97?

That's the last time had any sign of progress of North Korea not being such a threat to America as they are today. NK's ALWAYZ been a threat since the Korean War, but to be able to have that kind of relations without having to lose our stance says to me that the Clinton administration did a pretty good job at keeping the stale-mate as it was. Bush's administration seemed to do aight at first, then the "Axis of Evil" speech jacked peace talks with North Korea up hardcore. Not a smart speech for a person trying to improve America's security when you look at it from a US-Asia perspective.

I think I know where some of you are getting at with that picture. "What about the Rumsfeld-Hussein picture? Why is there such an uproar over that, when this Albright picture is not a big deal?" Answer: Rumsfeld, now Secretary of Defense, pushed for Hussein to be ousted because of weapons that he helped supply. Albright, however, got to learn a lot more in a trip than most of the media know to this day about the psychotic state. How much information do you think Albright was able to bring back to Clinton about how North Korea is run, and the mindset of the most guarded man in the world? And how much do you think Rice has been able to tell Bush? It's all about strategy, man. Learn how to deal with a madman, and how to keep America safe and less threatened without losing your ground.

Back to da nukes. I still smell fish. IF, IF, IF this were true that they conducted their first successful nuclear test, Kim Jung-Il would have had a video to show the whole world of it as living proof of their power, and would have shown his OWN people to show his new power. He's calling bluff, yo. Don't believe it just yet. It's Kim Jung-Il's word, no one else's. The tests may have involved nuclear elements in it, but it wasn't a 100% successful nuclear test. If it were a successful test, the ricter scale would have sent off stronger tremors recordings. Hell, look at the size of the estimated blast. 1 kiloton. C'mon, man. One of my ex-girlfriends farted a TWO kiloton blast in a movie theatre once and caused a cinema genocide a couple years back. I'm the only survivor, yo.

[TJones]

Its the Pepsi logo dude. Sheesh.

You like Pepsi do you ?

[Guest Marty]

That pop belly troll doll did not set off a nuke. Unless you trust the CCCP. Its time for Taiwan, South Korea and Japan to go nuclear then it would be check mate China.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Marty

[HoustonMidtown]

China's angry cause N Korea didnt 'consulte' them before the tests. I dont get what the hell the moron wants anyways. Whats wrong with him?

He wants to be in the movie "Team America: World Police 2" but they won't let him

[MidtownCoog]

Madeline Halfbright's legacy is the thing of legend.

The big differene between Rumsfeld meeting Saddam is that US was using Saddam to our benefit at the time.

In the case of Halfbright and Kim's toast, it's pretty clear and now a solid fact that the US was the one being used.

The feelgoods Dems have to stop being feelgooders and take care of business if they want to ever have any hope.

[TJones]

The second test has been reported as a false alarm by the Japanese press. Like we need anymore stress on this ticking timebomb.

[west20th]

Madeline Halfbright's legacy is the thing of legend.

The big differene between Rumsfeld meeting Saddam is that US was using Saddam to our benefit at the time.

In the case of Halfbright and Kim's toast, it's pretty clear and now a solid fact that the US was the one being used.

The feelgoods Dems have to stop being feelgooders and take care of business if they want to ever have any hope.

Yeah it's all the Dem's fault. Google "north Korea nuclear technology rumsfeld" and see what you come up with. Yes being taken by that fat little troll is embarrassing but isn't being a party to actually providing N. Korea with nuclear technology worse?

[TJones]

Yeah it's all the Dem's fault. Google "north Korea nuclear technology rumsfeld" and see what you come up with. Yes being taken by that fat little troll is embarrassing but isn't being a party to actually providing N. Korea with nuclear technology worse?

Your right West, it is kind of like doing a Google search and typing in "Clinton gives North Korea Nuclear power." and finding articles about REAL dealings, instead of POSSIBLE connections.

[RedScare]

The feelgoods Dems have to stop being feelgooders and take care of business if they want to ever have any hope.

Do you suggest using the last 6 years as a blueprint for taking care of business?

[MidtownCoog]

I think Six Party talks is the way to proceed.

No need for one-on-one talks.

[TJones]

Since Moonman is absent today, i will fill-in for him.

"We don't need no stinkin' TALKS at all, we need to just go in there and NUKE 'EM back to the stoneage. NUKE 'EM so hard that the only thing that survive is John Il's bad Hairpiece. That's all I have to say about that. NUKE 'EM, NUKE 'EM til they glow !"

Edited October 11, 2006 by TJones

[west20th]

Your right West, it is kind of like doing a Google search and typing in "Clinton gives North Korea Nuclear power." and finding articles about REAL dealings, instead of POSSIBLE connections.

The story is that Rumfeld was the director of a company that contracted to supply NK w/nuclear technology.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Your right West, it is kind of like doing a Google search and typing in "Clinton gives North Korea Nuclear power." and finding articles about REAL dealings, instead of POSSIBLE connections.

y'all gotta realize that this is stemming MUCH longer than Clinton and Bush. This is a 50 year+ thang, yo. Enough with the blame game on one President. I do give Clinton some props for trying a different approach when that time allowed to get diplomacy going in the right direction (which Bush said this morning is the approach he wants the U.S. and the other 4 nations in the 6-party talks to be able to have). Now, if Clinton's administration were smarter, Bush's idea of 6-party talks would have happened shortly after Albright's visit. Bush will find it hard for North Korea to rejoin the 6 party talks at this point without letting up on the sanctions proposed against them, but those sanctions are NEEDED to protect America from nuclear weapons smuggling to those against us.

Suggestion to RedScare, West20th, and TJones: Remember that Kim Jong-Il is to blame, not Clinton or Bush. North Korea at this point is growing more desperate because the famine is hurting their country more, and they will do anything for more money, which mainly comes from military for them. Regardless of who were in American office now, North Korea's just looking to be on the front page news without getting attacked, while dissing American way or life (which is why they hate South Korea and Japan so much), and get paid and fed by Americans at the same time. Don't forget that even today, the U.S. is sending food and aid to North Korea because of their threats. And that's been going on for decades, not just this admin or Clinton's...

[MidtownCoog]

McCain weighs in:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/mccai...S00010000000001

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (Oct. 10) - Republican Sen. John McCain on Tuesday accused former President Clinton, the husband of his potential 2008 White House rival, of failing to act in the 1990s to stop North Korea from developing nuclear weapons.

Edited October 11, 2006 by MidtownCoog

[RedScare]

McCain weighs in:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/mccai...S00010000000001

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (Oct. 10) - Republican Sen. John McCain on Tuesday accused former President Clinton, the husband of his potential 2008 White House rival, of failing to act in the 1990s to stop North Korea from developing nuclear weapons.

Is that a presidential campaign I see on the horizon?

[MidtownCoog]

He would not be a bad choice.

[nmainguy]

He would not be a bad choice.

Personally I think he'd be a horrible choice but it's probably moot as the far right wing-nut christian whack jobs that control the party hate him therefore no nomination. Ditto for Giuliani. They'll need another lap-dog more along the lines of Frist with a minder like Cheney to make sure he stays in line.

Of course the latest Grope Our Pages scandal may change everything...NOT

[MidtownCoog]

"Every single time the Clinton administration warned the Koreans not to do something - not to kick out the IAEA inspectors, not to remove the fuel rods from their reactor - they did it. And they were rewarded every single time by the Clinton administration with further talks."

[RedScare]

"Every single time the Clinton administration warned the Koreans not to do something - not to kick out the IAEA inspectors, not to remove the fuel rods from their reactor - they did it. And they were rewarded every single time by the Clinton administration with further talks."

Is this a defense of the ineffectiveness of the Bush Administration's approach, or a comparison of two ineffective approaches? OR, are you suggesting that Bush's approach was a raging success?

Talking about the 90s is all great and all (unless we are discussing music), but what is your point...that you don't like Clinton? We already knew that. This statement strikes me more as an attempt to evade acknowledging that the Bush policy on North Korea is every bit the failure of Clinton's...or more so...than any statement regarding the current situation.

[MidtownCoog]

That quote is from McCain, and I think he's right.

It was his response to the reverse carpetbagger hag also know as Senator Clinton.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...lnews-headlines

Edited October 11, 2006 by MidtownCoog

[RedScare]

That quote is from McCain, and I think he's right.

It was his response to the reverse carpetbagger hag also know as Senator Clinton.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...lnews-headlines

I applaud your and Senator McCain's deflection of the question.

[DJ V Lawrence]

"Every single time the Clinton administration warned the Koreans not to do something - not to kick out the IAEA inspectors, not to remove the fuel rods from their reactor - they did it. And they were rewarded every single time by the Clinton administration with further talks."

Gotta agree with RedScare; I'm not sure where you're getting at with that one.

And NMainGuy, not to change the topic, but what is it about McCain that you don't like as a candidate? He doesn't sound like a bad choice looking at his political and military history, though I'm not aware of what his plans/policies would be should he become president.

Back 2 Da CoogDude. I like that last sentence. ...And they were rewarded every single time by the Clinton administration with further talks." Talking as a reward?! Dude, who wrote that?!

[MidtownCoog]

McCain's response was appropiate to Clinton's finger pointing during a Columbus Day parade this weekend:

"Some of the reasons we are facing this dangerous situation is because of the failed policies of the Bush administration. I regret deeply their failure to deal with the threat posed by North Korea, and I hope that the administration will now adopt a much more effective response than what they have up until now."

Hillary Clinton

Notice she says "some"?

McCain is just playing the game. But Dems can't play the game without getting their feelings hurt.

http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBOBV475TE.html

[RedScare]

I'll just mark you down as "undecided".

[Mark F. Barnes]

Is that a presidential campaign I see on the horizon?

You bet you do the rhetoric has already started.

Being a Republican I say this with all my heart. John McCain is not worth the powder it would take to put him out of his ignorant misery. John McCain is out for nothing but John McCain. He refused to refused to run as the V.P. on the ticket with Bush because of his over-inflated ego. This Napoleonic complex midget has road his boo hoo stories of his days in the Hanoi Hilton far enough. Hey he went through some crap in the P.O.W. camps don't get me wrong. But he had it far better than others there because of his status.

Him being a POW does not qualify him for President. He has never shown the kind of leadership qualities as far as I am concerned. His tour in Nam no more qualifies him than it did Kerry. McCain said himself, if he couldn't be President he wouldn't settle for second. If he were any kind of soldier, he would have gladly jumped in as V.P. and been a tam player. Not McCain, it's all about him. Screw him. If John McCain told me water was wet, I would double check it first. Screw him and his Ego.

I had the privilege of attending a seminar a few years ago given by Lt. Cmdr. Everett Alvarez Ret.. Up to that point I really didn't know who he was. The seminar was recommended by a colleague, so I went. Heard this mans speech and he briefly touched upon that he was in Nam and was a Navy pilot, that was about it, he focused on Management, which was what the seminar was about, and it was good. I ran into him the next day at a bistro in Baltimore and offered to buy him lunch, we got to be a little more personally acquainted. Talked about our kids and grand-kids, and eventually got around to Politics. Being a Vet I assumed he would be Pro-McCain, however I got a big surprize. He had very little to say good about McCain, to sum it up he was a sniveling crybaby his entire stay at the Hilton. Sold out his fellow POW for extra privileges regularly, not that he needed many because he was given preferential treatment because of his daddy and grand daddy. I asked how he knew of all of this and he told me he spent 8 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton. He was the first American Soldier there and one of the last to leave. I was dumbfounded. I was setting two feet from a man that lived through hell and was one of the most humble people I had ever met. This guy is never in the spotlight, he also wasn't one of the "fellow POW's" that were endorsing John McCain. I asked about that and he said that McCain had five cronies, that were sellouts like himself, and he keeps them around for good PR. Just wanted to share that with you all, it has stuck with me ever since.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Mark F. Barnes